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16

General Discussion / Re: Euro Chair Specs

« on: July 30, 2019, 07:57:24 pm »

We did not end up getting the Euro chair but someone sent us this information privately at the time we were looking.  Hope this helps:


Here are two more measurements that you might like to know:

The horizontal length of the chair is about 37" from to front of the seat to the rear of the backrest.  Because the backrest angles quite a way backwards, this length is greater than the floorspace occupied. 

The footrest extended adds about 12" more.

Thank you :-)

17

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 29, 2019, 10:20:05 am »

It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation.  Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#.  I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?

Thanks everyone for your posts and comments.  I went to a CAT Scale yesterday and my 2019 E450 2350 has 3600LB in the front and 8720LB in the rear.  Total 12,320. (full water tank, empty gray and black)
So I guess I need to review the previous chart provided and determine the correct air pressure in front and rear vs going by the place card info? 
Also, it appears because I have to have 90LB in my rear heavy duty air bags to keep them off the inside block (per Bob at Elkhart Hitch).  The rear it not sagging and when you go over a long dip, you can tell the rear air bags are helping, so not convince they are contributing to the overall rough ride especially since most of the rough is experienced in the front.  Hard to say.  I plan to call Elkhart Hitch this morning and share the rear weight and see if he has any other comments related to the bags.

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General Discussion / Re: Euro Chair Specs

« on: July 27, 2019, 04:48:29 pm »

Our Euro Chair seat slopes from front to back--18 1/2" off of the floor at the front, 14" at the back.
The chair including the arms is 27" wide at its widest point.
The seat area narrows from front to back--21" at the front, 19" at the back.
The arms are integral parts of the chair and are not removable.
Hope this helps,
  --Bruce

Hi.  I know this topic has been closed for a while....  I am thinking about adding a Euro Chair behind the passenger seat of my 2350.  All of the specs that were previously provided were very helpful.  I was wondering if anyone would be able to share the max depth of the chair from front/back (not reclined) and the diameter of the base.  Thank you!

19

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 27, 2019, 04:32:35 pm »

This is a topic dear to my heart, yet I have a 2007 E350 chassis, hoping to soften our front suspension by soon replacing our stock E350 front coil springs with E150 coil springs.

To you with an E450 2350, as you have determined, your chassis is far over-rated for the actual load it is carrying.  The source of your jarring condition is related to an extra stiff, extra capable front and rear suspension.  What I share next is what I feel will get you going in the right direction, and it should be a very affordable solution compared to all other options. 

Keep in-mind that I am not an authority on all this.

During your next RV trip, fully loaded with a tank full of gasoline, propane, fresh water (no waste water), whatever you typically mount on your rear hitch, all your stuff including clothing, supplies, cookware, food, bottled water, and also you in your typical seating positions inside the RV.........get your rig weighed at a truck stop with a truck weigh scale.  Weigh each axle independently as is common practice on those scales.  With the weight numbers, you can determine the difference between your actual weight on each axle, and compare those numbers with the capability of each axle.  I am NO EXPERT HERE so don't take my word as gospel, but I feel you want your actual load per axle to be 500-750 pounds less than the axle's capability.  If the gap is significantly more, your ride will be quite rough as you are experiencing today.

I did that exercise with our 2350.  Our front axle is extremely light with an actual load (worst case scenario) of 3260 pounds and a capability of 4600 pounds, a 1140 pound difference.  On our heaviest trip ever, our rear axle weighed 8220 pounds on the rear axle that is capable of 7800 pounds, a deficiency (over-load condition) of 420 pounds.  Since then we are more mindful of what we carry and where we place the weight.

In your case with model 2350 on an E450 chassis, you won't have a rear axle over-load condition, but rather a severe under-load condition like I have with my front axle.  As I previously mentioned, I will soon swap my stock E350 4600 pound front coil springs with lower-rated ones designed for an E150.  I strongly advise to learn from my results before taking any such action with your own 2350s.

Regarding your rear suspension, a truck suspension shop should be able to take the weight numbers you provide and determine how many rear leaf springs to remove to decrease the amount of load margin to get you to the 500-750 number.

In my case, I wish I could add one more leaf spring per rear corner to increase my rear axle capability and lift it up to rid our slight rear end sag.  I can't add any leaf springs because the extra height will prevent the rig from clearing our already tight garage door clearance.

Thanks for the all the details and information.. a lot to digest and figure out our next move.  I will likely be calling PC and seeing what they can do to help or suggest.  BTW - is there a better way to reply to all the post replies?  it appears it is creating a new post each time I reply.  Everything is too damn time consuming :-)

20

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 27, 2019, 04:24:27 pm »

RJW -  where did you get that 15k weight number? Your GVWR is 14.5k, but your 2350 is only ~ 11k with 2 people and enough provisions for a week.
I run 40 psi in the Firestone ride-rite air springs on my E350 with a stout Hellwig  rear sway bar. Any greater psi results in  a harsher ride and increased  body roll on twisty  roads.

If (??) the E450 tire placard on your 2350 specifies 80psi for the back tires, try running 60 psi instead,  which is what the tire placard on the E350 2350 specifies. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that owners of the bigger E450-only PC models should deviate from their tire placard inflation specs for a softer ride.

The 15k was combined weight front and back per the brochure.. I typed to quick on the earlier reply, sorry for the confusion.  Per the Air Ride, we also had a 2100 prior with the standard Air Ride bags (Bob at Elkhart Hitch) and yes 30 to 40 pounds was plenty and ride was great.  We now have a 2350 and E350 was not an option anymore so E450 was recommended and now that is all PC is using in production.  Since it was a E450 the Air Ride recommendation was the heavy duty bags that have a center block inside to prevent collapse.  This is why the pressure is 90lb because anything less will not inflate enough to keep the vehical weight of the inner blocks (per Elkhart Hitch).
Thanks for your feedback and support.

21

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 27, 2019, 04:15:29 pm »

The koni shocks I installed were the FSD.   No help at all.

That stinks.. sorry to hear this news..

22

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 27, 2019, 04:13:11 pm »

I have a 2350/450 too. Rear air bags also. I figured the ride would be rough, and not great steering with the 4x4 option,but it sucks like you mention. I was hoping the air bags would help the 2350 sag, but they really did not. I'm pulling them off, and taking it to a custom truck spring builder to have them add and re-arc as needed to address the sag issue. Not sure what to do with the front end, but I think once the rear sag is gone, things will get better.
This might seem too simple but play with your tire air pressure some, its not the cure, but it helps. Summer heat makes pressures high, and the higher it gets the rougher the ride.
Doug

Thanks for the reply on this post. Tire pressure cold is kept at 75 front and 80 rear per sticker.  I have not played with decreasing since they already look a little round.  What pressure do you use on yours?  Also, Any chance you talked to PC about this experience; reason I asked is concerns of voiding the 1 year warranty and if they have had enough owners like us complaining about the hard ride issue that they would help with a solution.  Please keep me posted on any progress and I will do the same.  Thanks!

23

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 27, 2019, 04:07:25 pm »

Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55#  for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable .    I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!

Thanks for comments, very helpful.  The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added.  The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there.  I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery.  Thanks again for comments and safe travels!

15,000 lbs on the rear!   The entire vehicle is only rated 14,500 GVWR!   

As to the front tires, how much (cold) air pressure do put in them?  I keep the front tires of my 2015,model 2551 at 75# while the rear are all set at 80#

Certainly, it's not a squishy ride... After all, it is a truck but nothing like you are describing.

Sorry, yeah that was a typo and meant to state combined weight.  The front per the brochure specification is 5000lb front and 9600lb rear.  I was informed to use the tire pressure per the sticker which is 75 front and 80 rear (cold).  What I described is the ride is extremely hard with no give in the bumps even with Air Ride installed on the rear.  This is a very expensive RV not a meant to ride like a rough truck.  In my opinion.

24

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 26, 2019, 06:50:52 pm »

I’m in a 2552 model year 2011 E450. Mine rides just like you describe. I installed the Koni shocks that are supposed to fix that jarring ride on bumps such as bridge joints etc. don’t waste your money on Koni, they did nothing to help the ride. I’ve been in contact with Koni and they CLAIM this is the first they have heard of this. Anyway I’m starting the warranty process foe replacements. If it turns out mine are in fact bad and the new ones help I’ll report it but I don’t have my hopes very high.   I won’t spend thousands on liquid springs either and have no idea what the fix is.   

We just spent three months crossing 11 states and ever one has their share of teeth rattling roads.

HI, Thanks for your reply and comments.  Do you have the new Koni FSD or older version?  Here is the link we were reviewing as a possible improvement http://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Products/Motorhome/FSD/
I will keep this post updated on our hopeful progress.
Thanks and safe travels!

25

General Discussion / Re: 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 26, 2019, 06:46:31 pm »

Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55#  for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable .    I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!

Thanks for comments, very helpful.  The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added.  The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there.  I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery.  Thanks again for comments and safe travels!

26

General Discussion / Re: Replacing Front Coil Springs With Lesser-Rated Ones On Our 2007 E350

« on: July 26, 2019, 03:41:15 pm »

The road going thru oil country in Texas was pure hell. If I recall it’s the 285. If I had known of it being oil country I would have avoided like the plague.  The roads in Ohio have been no picnic either. I don’t think any state is exempt .

In my opinion I made a bad choice in the koni shocks. I don’t know what the answer is but it damn sure isn’t  Koni to address a rough ride. My rear end is like riding a rigid frame bike.


This aside back to Ron’s issue. Wouldn’t the sag issue be addressed by rear air bags? I don’t know if they are available or cost prohibitive, just throwing out a thought.

Hi, Did you install the Koni FSD shocks? We are researching them as an option for our similar problem.  We have a new E450 2019 PC 2350, we have the Air Ride in the rear.  The E450 is a terrible ride over any bump  I just created a new post today with more details.
Thanks
Rob

27

General Discussion / Re: Leveling Jacks & Aluminum Wheels

« on: July 26, 2019, 03:25:50 pm »

What's the popular opinion on leveling jacks, specifically for a 2351D? We're thinking of upgrading to a 2351D and trying to figure out if jacks are worth the price in dollars and/or in weight.
Rarely, knock wood, have we had leveling issues, but once we do this we aren't going to do it again. At least so I said before.
And possible other than cosmetic, is there any real advantage/disadvantage to the optional aluminum wheels?
Thanks

We have a 2019 2350 and very pleased with the leveling jacks.. (a must in my opinion).  Our previous was a 2100 and realized it was an inconvenience camping unlevel all the time.  Worth the money in my opinion.
Happy camping!

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General Discussion / 2019 E450 2350 Rough Ride

« on: July 26, 2019, 03:20:48 pm »

HI everyone, so there are many nice features about the PC 2350 but the E450 chassis change is not what we expected.  Our previous PC was 2018 2100 E350 and the ride (related to bumps in the road) was much better.  I understand the E450 is build to be tougher but did not expect the ride to change this much.  The front end is terrible when you go over the slightest crack or bump in the road. Everything in the RV bangs/slams and startles you you each time you go over a bump.  This issue is causing an unpleasant driving experience. The steering is great and have a the Safety Plus stabilizer bar.  Smooth road the ride is great.  Even with Air Ride installed in the rear at 90 lbs, the RV ride is not good over any type of bump.  My budget does not afford liquid sprigs and would hope that is not the only solution.  Does anyone else have an E450 with similar problems?  Any recommendations? I read online that better shocks will not help?  I called Ford directly and did not get very far; they suggested I speak with the manufacturer.. figures.
Thanks!
Rob in Maryland

29

General Discussion / Re: slideout

« on: November 23, 2018, 08:11:04 pm »

Hello, yes we can relate with this issue.  Our 2018 2100 had the ribbed bottom and we experienced lots of shaking and movement.  We also have encountered some shifting in the slide out which required onsite attention.  I must say we were very pleased with the support on the repairs from PC.  You should contact them if you continue to experience further issues.