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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: catsaplenty on June 16, 2021, 11:51:57 pm

Title: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 16, 2021, 11:51:57 pm
Wondering if any of you who have had service at the factory lately have been told the screws needed to be closer together on the facing trim on the slideout  The work on mine was done without asking (and of course while charging me for the time).  I was told after the fact that Schwintek had said PC needed to do this.  But I note the visual provided of the 2021 model on their web site still had the spacing at 12 inches.  I haven't been able to find out when this new requirement supposedly happened.  But certainly regardless of why it was done, it seems that it should have been done in a quality manner - rather than having the new screws wandering up and down instead of in line.  Permanent damage to the way my RV now looks.  Not exactly an indication of a quality build for those who stop to see my unit in the campgrounds.  I am wondering about the veracity of the story about Schwintek.  Any of you heard of this or had them make that change on your unit while it was in for other service?
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: donc13 on June 17, 2021, 07:23:48 am
There's something very wrong here.   Was this done at Elkhart or at a Campers Inn?   Were it me, I would have them replace that facing for free.

And they definitely should not have charged you even if it was done perfectly.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Volkemon on June 17, 2021, 07:40:20 am
Permanent damage to the way my RV now looks. 

Wow. Agreed. That would drive me NUTS every time I went in.

And Dittos to donc13's comments.  Following.

Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 17, 2021, 08:11:40 am
It was done at Elkhart.  And replacing the facing would not solve the holes drilled in to the backing.  Trying to put the holes where they should be would likley hit parts of the previously created holes mkaing the whole thing unstable. 

Sadly this was not the only issue with my visit to the factory.  I did talk to Tina about what all happened.  She said she would get back to me but that was 6/1 and so far nothing but crickets.  I tried reaching out as a follow up to her thru a message here too. 
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: DKCruzser on June 17, 2021, 08:12:22 am
How far are the screws apart since this "repair" was made?  And what is the recommendation from Schwintek?
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 17, 2021, 08:20:08 am
DKCruzer..  I have not been able to find out what and when and even IF Schwintek said anything.  Didn't get answers from PC to that question or any other.  I was trying to find out if anyone else here had been told anything or had this change happen on theirs  The original spacing was 12 inches.  Now more like 6 but there are sections that aren't consistent with that either.  Kind of a mess.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Ron Dittmer on June 17, 2021, 08:55:58 am
That surely looks "tacky".  It would bother me too.  What is going on there at Phoenix?  Did they hire someone, experienced help from Coachman?

Being who I am, I would ask for new trim and finishing buttons shipped to my house and drill the holes myself, closer together to avoid getting too close to previously drilled holes.  It would take some planning.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 17, 2021, 04:15:06 pm
DKCruzser - tried to get you a visual.  This is what I mean about the spacing not being consistent.  This is the front upright section.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Carol on June 17, 2021, 04:40:53 pm
Only semi-related, but what is Phoenix charging per hour now for non-warranty work and is the customer allowed in the work area now that they are in their new building?
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Joseph on June 17, 2021, 04:58:23 pm
 I look at the pic and find this hard to believe. It would drive me nuts every time I looked at it and more so every time someone pointed it out. Would anyone here buy a PC if you did a walk thru and saw this kind of workmanship?

You mention this was done without your consent and you were charged for the work?  Can you show this wasn't pre approved?  They need to fix this and make you HAPPY in a timely manner or I'd have a lawyer drawing up papers. Thats just my 2 cents and all its worth I'm afraid.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: CalCruiser on June 17, 2021, 05:47:24 pm
Is  Phil Swift from Flexseal  moonlighting in Elkhart?
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: mikeh on June 17, 2021, 06:40:11 pm
Need more info I think.
Is it possible location of the additional screws (spacing and "out of line" horizontal positioning) is somehow specified by Schwintek?  Absent that, it would seem intuitive to add the additional screws in a pattern that matched the originals as closely as possible rather than one that draws the eye.
Valid question for Phoenix.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 17, 2021, 06:57:50 pm
Carol, $145 per hour.  Not allowed in the repair area unless they come to escort you there to show you something  So no way to tell what is or is not being done to your unit. The waiting area at the new facility isn't even an entrance where staff come thru so pretty much you just sit and wait to see what happens.

Joseph, I am still considering a lawyer since asking Tina to help me with all that happened seems to have only gotten me a broken promise. And it does bother me every time I enter.- and I am FT in this RV so that is a lot of my day.  Not sure how I prove I never told them to do this. Certainly it was NOT on the list I gave them.  They don't do a work order to be approved prior to their work. It was shown to me after the fact - too late to avoid it.  There is a part of me that thinks that kind of a mess was not someone not paying attention but more like a conscientious decision to not care to do it right.  We know they are capable of doing it correctly if they choose to.  I don't work with power tools but I think even I could have used something to draw a line to follow and measured out the gaps. Though I already lost $1800 plus my travel expenses in this entire debacle(this is only one item) and my unit defaced, I am not sure I can take the frustration, anxiety, etc. to try to deal with them any further on it.  While my SS income doesn't  make it easy to ignore that kind of loss, mental health is still worth something.  Since so far no one else on the forum has apparently heard the supposed Schwintek requirement it reaffirms my concerns about stories already being built to cover what was and wasn't done there.  Perhaps rather than spend more money on an attorney (though I suspect that is part of PCs bet) the best I can do is wish others here the best of luck in staying on the good side of those in the service area and remind them to pay attention to the "explanations" they are given. I believe not all of what we are told is as it seems Ė just told with a straight face.

mikeh - so far I have not even been able to get PC to confirm the order to change the spacing or when it came from Schwintek. Since even the "out of line" follows no pattern no does the actual spacing - no I can not imagine any instance in which Schwintek would require an RV factory to build something that looks like an 7 year old was turned loose with a power drill. 

Appreciate everyone's input.  I will attempt to get off my soapbox.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: rvrunner on June 17, 2021, 07:50:02 pm
 I've had 6 leaks, 3 seperate leaks in the slide alone, it leaked for 2 years, I think it's fixed now, not 100% sure. My macerator was wired backwards and doesn't work at all now, unhooked bad electric dump valve, had paneling pull away from the wall, my fridge door has fallen off twice, I've replaced the microwave, stove, furnace, and toilet. The door frame was replaced because of rust, 2 ac outlets were smashed when installed, they pulled out of the wall in pieces, and a window valance fell down. My slide never did work right, I argued  with the guy showing me my new PC that it wasn't working correctly, he said they all work that way, a year later my slide had to be pulled, it was not installed correctly when new. Last week while putting in the slide there was a big bang, the bottom rail is chewed up, it's back to Elkhart I go. My PC is 3 yrs old. There were other problems but you get the idea. When I was complaining about these problems on this forum, I think I had good reason to complain, most of you defended the company, it was even said I was picking nits. Now those same people who defended the company are upset because some screws are not spaced evenly and think the company should  correct this, going as far as recommending contacting a lawyer if not done to owners satisfaction. WOW.
 All the problems I've had, the company treated me very well even paid for some of the repairs after the warranty had expired. Yesterday I turned over 100,000 miles, luckily my Ford has had no problems.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 17, 2021, 08:50:23 pm
Rvrunner - you will not have ever found me saying you were wrong.  I do wonder if people who have continuous issues with PC tend to drop off the forum.  In my case PC were still fixing slide leaks this time on my slide seal - 4 years trying to solve that..  They have never fixed the damage those leaks caused - just  what I had to live with  while they tried to figure out the right seal for the Schwintek since mine was that first year of the change.  My slide failure is what  drove me back to the factory this time.  The bad news - they didn't actually fix that - it is still not useable,

I think any repair place choosing to do work that was not requested is improper.  Likewise not doing the work that was scheduled is unacceptable. The screws alone are not what would drive me to an attorney though it is an obvious and fairly permanent problem. 

Sorry you too have had to live with continuous issues from PC.  I hope you have better luck with your slide repair than I did.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: rvrunner on June 17, 2021, 09:59:46 pm
Catsaplenty, thank you for your kind reply, it sounds like you've paid your dues. All the reviews I read before I bought were very positive, I'll be more careful next time. I can see that the screws unevenly spaced are an eyesore. Good luck.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Volkemon on June 18, 2021, 07:21:31 am
All the reviews I read before I bought were very positive....

HECK yeah!  We got our 2006 used (abused?)  October 2017.  We wanted new, but were very nervous about putting out that kind of money and not knowing if we liked it. So Mrs V found the model we wanted, but older. The plan was fix it up, see if we liked it, flip it and buy new.  2o2

 The windshield repair put a delay on the idea of 'flipping' it before we got our new one. A blessing in disguise. We are gonna drive this one until it wont go... and it is such a proven design, it may outlast us.  (cheer)


  Not sure how I prove I never told them to do this. Certainly it was NOT on the list I gave them.  They don't do a work order to be approved prior to their work. It was shown to me after the fact - too late to avoid it. 

 Perhaps rather than spend more money on an attorney (though I suspect that is part of PCs bet).

Appreciate everyone's input.  I will attempt to get off my soapbox.



THANK YOU for getting up 'on that soapbox'.  You ARE helping others here on the forum.  :)(:

You gave them a list?  It is NOT up to you to prove you didnt tell them... it is up to THEM to prove you requested it, or to supply an order from Schwintek that requires it.  You are in the right.

However, you are very right in thinking about PC's 'bet' about the mental stress of a lawyer and court case.  That is common.

I just got a $7K NEW motor put in my John Deere tractor under warranty. I bought it used, and figured the factory had no obligation to me.  LONG story short, it is from a defect that JD knows of, but wont issue a recall. Cheaper to HOPE the engines make it past the warranty period, so the customer cant get warranty on the motor. I lucked out... and found a forum that helped me out.  Had not found the forum, and found my warrantee was transferable,  I would have torn the motor apart and fixed it on my own dime and time. Link - https://www.greentractortalk.com/threads/1025r-engine-damage-air-cleaner-broke-off.186388/page-7  My posts start at #124.


FORUMS ROCK.  Wonder how long this one has.  (nod)

Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: 2 Frazzled on June 18, 2021, 08:04:40 am
I may be missing something but my brain says those are trim boards screwed to the metal flange on the slide frame. All they do is make it look pretty. Why would it need more screws?

It's possible they were trying to tighten the rubber gasket on the back side of the flange (IF that is screwed on). If so, the trim should have been removed first, not drilled through.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Volkemon on June 18, 2021, 08:36:52 am
Good thought!

Does yours still have the old style slide? I just went out to refresh my memory how the gaskets are. The trim has nothing to do with the sealing function.

I wonder if the new design has the gasket on the back of the trim , between it and the metal.

Original screws were stripped out when reinstalling, same talented tech added some new ones hoping no one would notice.

Stay tuned, I guess.  :)(:
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Joseph on June 18, 2021, 08:58:37 am
One very key item here is common sense on the part of PC. Regardless if this was needed or not itís an obvious fact how it would look. They knew this and didnít think it might be a good idea to discuss this with the owner first explaining why, alternatives etc.

As pointed out itís possible a company may assume no one would care enough to hire an attorney but it costs nothing to hit their bottom line. Showing this kind of work does just that and if any company cares so little than theyíve earned just that.  This is what baffles me. Many of us have dealt with an employee or two of the company. Myself with Carol in parts and their head electrician. (Canít recall his name) In every case they have gone above and beyond in service and caring for the customer.  So this is really baffling. Not just that it happened because screw ups can happen anywhere. Whatís truly baffling is that someone there hasnít reached out to make this right. So what am I missing, whatís gone wrong?
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: flei on June 18, 2021, 09:51:04 am
Word of advice: If you drink, don't drill.
https://www.track-link.com/forums/modelling_kits/21995
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Ron Dittmer on June 18, 2021, 09:57:03 am
Wow rvrunner.  You and catsaplenty sure have a pile of justified complaints.  There is no excuse for such poor workmanship.  There is nothing anyone can say in defense of Phoenix.  Your PCs have been plagued with issues and that is factual.

Regarding your macerator pump being wired backwards.....
I replaced my macerator years ago, all the details with pictures here.
http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2086.0.html (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2086.0.html)
When wiring colored-to-colored, ground-to-ground, the new macerator ran backwards.  I had to reverse the wires for it to work right.

Concerning slide-outs, maybe some here can now understand the reasoning behind my decision to avoid them.  Regardless, Phoenix changed brands of slide outs around 2017-2018.  I always heard good things about the older brand, not sure why Phoenix changed brands which apparently had issues for a while at the expense to new owners.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 18, 2021, 10:14:43 am
Ron, it took me awhile, but I have seen the light. ;)  Carol also knew best to avoid the slide as she did in hers.  I am a bit claustraphobic and thought I would need the extra "openness" to be able to live in this.  But having been forced for months to live with the slide in, I now know that I could and would avoid a slide if ever the universe drops a bag of money so I could replace my rig!

(p.s. it wouldn't be another PC)
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: Ron Dittmer on June 18, 2021, 10:29:36 am
(p.s. it wouldn't be another PC)
I can't say I blame you.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: rvrunner on June 18, 2021, 10:54:57 am
A year ago when the factory pulled my slide I was in the shop when they did it, the tech removed the the trim around the inside of the slide and then told me, do not put the slide out with the trim removed, it will just keep going out until it drops on the floor. Apparently the trim stops the slide from going out to far unless I misunderstood.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: CalCruiser on June 18, 2021, 04:03:29 pm
The wood trim actually forms a flange that seals  against a gasket on the inner wall, as well as acting as a physical stop. A PC has angled sidewalls. The original slide-out design was gimbaled from the sides, allowing it to swing up at a slight angle after making contact at the top. The  wood also flexes as it contacts the seal at an angle.

The newer Schwintek design uses 4 parallel rack and pinion type gear drives  The 2 bottom tracks would need to be slightly longer to allow the slide-out to tilt upward, otherwise the flange could not seal completely on the sides. But if the the bottom track gear motors were  still running that would cause the wood to  flex at the top as the slide-out  tried to become parallel to the sidewall.

Now for some  :help :
To test this hypothesis place a bubble level vertically against the outer wall, then do the same on the vertical wood  trim, with the slide-out both  retracted and extended.  If it remains level that would indicate the  inner seal should be tapered instead of flat.
Maybe the service department added those extra screws to reduce flexing to address the leak, which was the reason given for the appointment but omitted from the original post at the the top. I hope your  leak was finally fixed. If not, try using chalk to see where the flange isnít making good contact with the seal, then put some thick self-adhesive weatherstripping on the back side of the wood where you see gaps. Thatís something you could do by trial and error yourself  without too much inconvenience or expense. At this point thereís no warranty to void. Good luck!
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 18, 2021, 11:46:26 pm
Calcruiser, appreciate your pondering all this.   The leak wasn't why I scheduled the appointment. The slide has shifted somehow. It had been fine all these years until one day it just wasn't. When I went to put it out it collided in the back.  That is what drove me to return to the factory.

The issue with the seal leaking was across the top which is where it has been an issue since the RV was new. Not sure what exactly the "fix" was this time - generally they put another piece of stuff in the gap.they find.

The appointment was set up for 2 days so they could take the slide apart and find the issue and fix it. I think they only chose to change the notable crash point - the speaker.  I do know they didn't even spend one day on it though I could only get "I took care of it" as an explanation for the work.  When I got back here I put it out and when I tried to bring it back in for a storm it was left this time with the front upper corner not coming in all the way and actually almost stopped altogether part way in.  So it would seem they didn't actually locate the issue with the slide operating straight.  Since that is not shut there is water there now when it rains so I have no clue if the other leak was fixed.

Yes this trip to the factory was an all out cluster.  My anger and frustration comes from several things and from how more than one person acted or responded to my objections. We won't do the whole litany.  I am trying to figure out where else might be able to deal correctly with the slide. Another post I had tried didn't get much feedback for Campers Inn as a possibility.  Of course other places will work on units they sold before wanting to schedule this in. And since I live in this, I can't just leave it somewhere for when they have time.   RV living does present challenges!  I will keep working on moving forward. Didn't expect the Schwintek spacing question to carry out this far.  Thanks
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: CalCruiser on June 19, 2021, 04:40:13 am
Does ďcollidedĒ mean that it struck an external object, or  just became so misaligned that it rubbed somewhere internally?

There are YouTube videos from Lippert Schwintek explaining how to resynchronize the system and how to inspect the tracks for broken teeth  or signs of damage. Try contacting L.S. tech support and asking for an expert repair facility referral. Also try searching and posting on larger forums like IRV2 for non-PC specific Lippert Schwintek tips. Before retaining an attorney consider  filing an insurance claim so you wonít have to stress so much over paying to have it ďfixedĒ twice.

It would be really helpful  to have a sticky thread knowledge base list of where everyone goes for quality trusted  RV repairs (besides Ronís virtual garage or Volkemonís  driveway in Florida  LOL).
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: rvrunner on June 19, 2021, 06:45:27 am
Lichtsinn  RV in Forest City, Iowa has a slide service, they're not cheap. If PC can't get mine fixed I might try Lichtsinn.
Title: Re: spacing of screws on slide out facing
Post by: catsaplenty on June 19, 2021, 07:41:02 am
CalCrusier - it ran into the inside wall - about a half inch into the speaker. 

Trying to hold the buttons to reset the slide didn't work.  I originally got a mobile guy to come out as he supposdely could work on it.  But when he wanted to cut off part of the back wall of the the slide and rebuild it so it would "fit" better I knew I best get to the factory.  Bigger hammer theory of repair wasn't an answer for me!

RVRunner - thanks for that repair name.  That would be a hike from PA but I may have to hit the road to deal with this.

Thanks to all for their support and ideas.  I really did not mean to keep dribbling out my woes on this.  I need to acknowledge that I need to stop.  Continuing to relive the situation is keeping the upset alive in my life.  I need to not let PC cost me anymore of my life and sanity.  They are not going to do right by me nor help solve this.  So I need to take my losses and wipe them off of my life.  Can't change what they did (or didn't) do so best to let it go. 

You have all given me the orginal answer about whether anyone has heard of the supposed Schintek requirement.  And I have let you know to watch out for this drill crazy "fix" it you take a rig in.  I think at this point I will try to close out this thread and for my end, I will just focus on trying to find a place to get the help I need to diagnose and fix the issue.  If I get someone to diagnosis it, then insurance may be a possible assist to my pocket book.  Since no documentation of the findings or the work came from the trip to Elkhart, I don't know if what is happening is covered.

Again, truly I appreciate the time you all have taken to reach out to me and your expertise and ideas.  It all gives me hope.