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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Volkemon on April 22, 2019, 08:57:33 am

Title: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Volkemon on April 22, 2019, 08:57:33 am
WHOA!   I had not seen this level of damage yet on a PC.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47614810352_c0faa8a3d8_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47614810302_9fc1bafae0_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33790251838_0862e716c6_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33790226988_653c9f2abe_b.jpg)

If this was built like most of them with 2x2 pine.....it would be a basket case.

Here you go Sarah!   Keep us posted as you go, you now have your own thread.  heartshower


Feel free to contaqct me on FB, here or email for any more assistance.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: RoadToNowhereRV on April 22, 2019, 10:20:26 am
Thanks for posting, I appreciate it.

So yep, that's what we've been dealing with this week.  I will say that it doesn't look as bad as the pictures anymore... 😊. So, we've since since completely resealed with Dicor everything on the roof.  We have replaced all running lights and sealed them as well.  One point of entry was the running light on the passenger side.  Also the door catch which has now been replaced as well.  We've sealed all seams and door latches etc with 5200.  We had a rain last night and there was no new water on the passenger side.

The driver side all stems from the slide, we're thinking that replacing the gaskets will help.  We're also putting spout gutter extenders on four locations to remove water from those areas.  We also sealed a leak on the catch pan under the slide.

We bought this from a couple in their mid-80's with health conditions who I just think had no idea it was going on.  These seem to be the only two areas with water damage, so there's that at least. 😂. We will also be replacing all the gaskets on every window.  I also think in rebuilding the walls we will be going with a foam board insulation instead of fiberglass.  I've read that's better when traveling to different climates.  So if anyone has any suggestions feel free.


Thank you,

Sarah Beth
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: jatrax on April 22, 2019, 06:36:01 pm
Hi Sarah and Welcome!

I just wanted to mention that if you need parts or advice the factory is usually super helpful about such things even on older coaches.  Many reports on here about them helping locate parts and such. 

I also wanted to mention the Phoenix Cruiser Travel Club.  We are the 'official' owner group.  The website is: http://phoenixcruisertravelclub.org/ if you want more information.  We have a rally each year which has been great fun.

Good luck on your project!
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: CalCruiser on April 23, 2019, 07:05:11 am
Bleach solution, spray bottles, fans more bleach, fans, and Kilz primer (nod)
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 23, 2019, 07:07:58 am
I also think in rebuilding the walls we will be going with a foam board insulation instead of fiberglass.  I've read that's better when traveling to different climates.  So if anyone has any suggestions feel free.  Sarah Beth
Hi Sarah Beth,

About your comment on fiberglass insulation....Phoenix uses block foam insulation in the walls, floor, and ceiling including back in 2006, so you're already set with the best.

I do NOT recommend removing sections of interior wall board unless absolutely necessary.  The fabrication method used to make the wall sections is called vacu-bonded.  That means the interior wall board contributes to the structural integrity of the walls.  The method is commonly used in the RV industry for many years now, ideal for the sectional wall method in construction.  They offer strength without excess weight and Phoenix's method includes precisely made aluminum framing around each wall and roof opening, making them better yet.  I don't know how strong they would be if you removed all the interior wall material, then glued on something else.  So I recommend leaving alone as much interior wall board as possible during your renovation.

Sorry to hear of your water troubles.  At least you know the cause for the two leaks and are tackling them properly.  It appears you caught it all in time before serious damage sets in.  Your leaks are in the two most common places for water entry.....marker lights and slide outs.  On our 2007 PC, Phoenix sealed around the marker lights.  I wonder why one of your marker lights leaked.  Did Phoenix seal yours but the seal failed?

Ron (and Irene) Dittmer
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Volkemon on April 23, 2019, 07:56:32 am

About your comment on fiberglass insulation....Phoenix uses block foam insulation in the walls, floor, and ceiling including back in 2006, so you're already set with the best.


See the pics above, Ron. They used fiberglass between the transition pieces and the wallboard.

 My 2006 has fiberglass insulation there also, as seen when I looked down after taking out the shelf. I could only see down 6 inches or so without removing the panel.  I was hoping to run marker light wires down behind the wallboard to the bottom, but it looks like there are two horizontal wood braces that nix that idea. (Thats why I was so interested in pictures of that area)

RE: replacing fiberglass insulation above with foamboard.. I would not. Be a good 'squeak generator'  :lol I would put 1-3 inches of fiberglass back in, whatever seems to fit/replace original.  MOST times, foamboard is better than fiberglass fill. But thats for large, flat areas that can be glued down. The transition area we are referring to has irregular contours that suit fiberglass insulation very well.

I do love the foamboard, did the entire trailer interior with 2" foil faced. Glued down with PL300. GREAT stuff to work with.

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/24b8a6da-66d2-4edd-b758-eaaf7e89a4c2_1.8d1af153475a4c0371246a722af66cfc.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)






 




Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 23, 2019, 08:07:08 am

About your comment on fiberglass insulation....Phoenix uses block foam insulation in the walls, floor, and ceiling including back in 2006, so you're already set with the best.

See the pics above, Ron. They used fiberglass between the transition pieces and the wallboard.
Ah, Of Coarse!  Thanks for the correction Volkemon.

Fiberglass is used in the transition wall and B+ cap.  Everything from that point rearward is block foam.

As Volkemon says......
The only concern I have with replacing the fiberglass insulation with block foam in the transition wall is "the squeakies" of the foam moving around inside.  The vacu-bond process in the other areas has no squeaking.  I just don't know what to expect in the transition wall.  It would make me bonkers to hear the foam insulation singing along as we drive.

A foam that might not squeak as much is the kind used for concrete foundation insulation.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: RoadToNowhereRV on April 23, 2019, 09:07:17 am
Oh wow, I appreciate all the input so much and sorry for the delay in getting back to you.  We had a two window on getting as much done as we could on the PC, so we've really been going at it.

Ron/Volkemon thank you for the advice regarding the insulation.  After putting bleach, Kilz and Flex Seal over the inside area for safe measure (CalCruiser approved hopefully :)) I have some R-30 Fiber Glass Roll before I frame in new walls.  Got some nice Weaber Weathered Boards to give it a nice rustic finish look too.  I figure I'd give it a bit different flare.

Currently working on the floor, removing wood.  There was some 2x12's over the generator there were rotten as well.  It rattled and made a lot of noise when it came on, now we know why.  Back to Home Depot for more wood!  ☺️

Thank you John for the warm welcomes, it's very appreciated.  I am a member was in this months Newsletter, so very excited to be a member.  I'm not sure we can make it to the reunion this year, we definitely plan on coming in the future.  Hope to run into fellow PC's before that... By the way, I absolutely love your photography.  It's amazing and breathtaking and one of the reasons I wanted to RV Travel.

I also would like to state that the Carbon Monoxide, Smoke, Propane detectors are brand new, one of my first purchases.  I appreciate the concern, I had to make sure we were safe and my fur kids.

Thank you for the support and warm welcomes, it means a lot.  Even though we weren't hoping for damage it's a great way to learn the rig and be creative.  Will keep you updated, should have some major progress to show by tomorrow night.





Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: RoadToNowhereRV on April 23, 2019, 09:41:45 am
Current status..

Very thankful for having a husband and friend with carpentry backgrounds.  ☺️
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: jim.godfrey on April 24, 2019, 09:12:25 pm
Speaking of fiberglass insulation in the transitions and the cap...
Was thinking about requesting that PC put some dynamat in those areas before the insulation goes in thinking those areas might add to noise in the cab.
I asked Barry about this and he kind of dismissed the idea as unnecessary and said the fiberglass did a good job on noise.
Would you guys agree?
I also asked about adding dynamat to the inside of the door skins and got the same answer. I have gotten excellent results using dynamat in passenger cars for sound deadening.
Made my Camry ride like an Avalon! Have a feeling if they won't do the doors at the factory that I will be doing it myself.

Might be worth considering while your transitions are open.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Volkemon on April 25, 2019, 05:09:37 am
Speaking of fiberglass insulation in the transitions and the cap...
Was thinking about requesting that PC put some dynamat in those areas before the insulation goes in thinking those areas might add to noise in the cab.
I asked Barry about this and he kind of dismissed the idea as unnecessary and said the fiberglass did a good job on noise.
Would you guys agree?
I also asked about adding dynamat to the inside of the door skins and got the same answer. I have gotten excellent results using dynamat in passenger cars for sound deadening.
Made my Camry ride like an Avalon! Have a feeling if they won't do the doors at the factory that I will be doing it myself.

Might be worth considering while your transitions are open.

I agree that dynamat is not a necessary item to dampen fiberglass. it has no 'resonance' to dampen.

  Quick test to see if noise dampening material will help - pound on it with a closed fist. Slap it quicker and lighter also, you are trying to emulate road vibrations.  Does it have a dull thud? No dampening needed. Does it 'ring' or 'gong' at all? Or do the vibrations make something else 'buzz'? Dampen it.

Restoring my 2350, I found the noise(s) in the cab were all ceiling and top cabinet related. Only ONE of 8 screws were seated correctly attaching the cutaway roof to the cabinets - had a horrible noise sometimes right above the passenger head.  I upgraded the screws with carriage bolts... After firmly re-attaching the cabinets to the original roof, I am VERY pleased with the lack of noise on the highway. The 'creak-creak' it used to have going over rough terrain slowly is gone also.  heartshower

Doing the cockpit floor with dampening material made a big difference also. My coach is 'airplane' quiet on the road now.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 01, 2020, 06:48:52 am
RoadToNowhereRV, I know this is an old thread but we just found a mess in the transition section of our 2016 2910.

Any photos or input on how you sealed your wall back up after your repairs would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Will
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Joseph on September 01, 2020, 04:04:02 pm
These threads are good to resurface. Reminds us to remove and replace the sealants on seams.    I have several tubes at home. This reminder will make me set a time to do the work .   
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 01, 2020, 04:06:06 pm
Glad I can help.  Reminds me to sell this POS soon as I can get it fixed.....
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Joseph on September 01, 2020, 05:00:55 pm
Iím sorry to hear yours has become a pos for you. I know it can happen in darn near anything. What you have going is big enough.  Any other issues ?


I talk to a lot of owners of diff brands.  I find happy and no where near happy in damn near every one Iíve talked to.  I I used to be sold on getting a coach house one day.  Then on this trip I came across a nearly new 272xl.  I wasnít overly impressed in anything other than the one piece body.  I was surprised, I really expected to be wowed but it didnít happen for me.


I hope you get your issues fixed and can sell it for a price you feel comfortable with.  Once something rubs a person raw itís many times easier to just move on.  Iíve been there myself
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: RoadToNowhereRV on September 01, 2020, 05:12:59 pm
Hi Will,

Sorry for the delay, we haven't been on here for awhile.  Luckily we haven't had anything major go down since that issue when we bought it, knock on wood.  Okay, so we first sealed inside with silicone.  Then we used bleach, Kilz and Flex Seal.  We used 5200 Marine Grade on the outside.  We used 1 by 1 frame cut to fit from cab to wall, a lot of angles.  We also got rid of one of the cabinets on passenger side and table.  We used zinc coated self toppers to secure the framing.  We used R-30 stuffed insulation.  We covered that with Lauan plywood and finished it with ship lap cut flush to fit from thr cab trim to the wall.  I think I covered everything?!  Let me know if you have any more questions.  I understand the POS comment when this happens but its honestly been an awesome RV since we fixed it.

Good luck,
Sarah
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: RoadToNowhereRV on September 01, 2020, 05:21:12 pm
Sorry, was shrinking pictures to fit.  We've gone with a different theme inside, compared to the original.  😊
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: RoadToNowhereRV on September 01, 2020, 05:41:20 pm
The light at the end of the tunnel with the new walls and floor.  😊
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 02, 2020, 06:13:57 am
Joseph - thanks for the response.  I was extremely frustrated last night (still am).  I address the roof every year and it looks better than new.  Apparently the side marker lights are leaking (I think), and its a very slow leak over a long time, so you dont see anything until its too late.  I thought it was just the drivers side, now I know its both sides.  The laminate flooring is ruined on the drivers side but appears OK on the passenger side.  Everything else on both sides is wet, rotten, and moldy.  On top of that, as I dig into it I am very unimpressed with the construction in these areas.  We bought the PC because I felt they were better than most, well this is worse than most and its disappointing to find this on top of everything else.  This is the fourth major item for us, we have had drive shaft issues, had to pay a body shop to fix cracks in rear cap, and windows that continue to fail, all in 20K miles.  Plus the 50 or so minor RV industry standard mandatory problems.....

RoadToNowhereRV - thanks a lot for the pics.  The only way to fix this right is to open it up, dry it out and replace everything that is soft - as you know.  The hardest part is to start cutting into it, the pictures will be a big help.

Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 02, 2020, 07:36:00 am
Just got a helpful call back from the factory guys.  They may be able to match flooring and it was good to talk through the issues with them.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 15, 2020, 06:48:29 pm
RoadToNowhereRV - Can you offer any more input as to where yours was leaking.  Our roof looks great, I reset marker lights and touched up all caulk joints that looked suspect, and it still leaks like a sieve.  Worse is the drivers side and we have the slide like yours, but passenger side also leaks - just not as much.  Thanks for any input.  From what I can see it appears wettest at transition between rear of cap and top of angled side wall (just in front of the slide).  Next step is to start cutting holes in the walls.....
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Joseph on September 15, 2020, 07:02:21 pm
Will, leaks like sieve?  Is this while driving in rain, wind drivin rain or even in just a hard down pour? Whereís your water showing up inside?
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Bangorbob on September 15, 2020, 08:48:11 pm
Nice job.  I currently don't have leaks that I know of.  I did see the caulking where the front cap meets the coach is starting to crack.  I have a full paint job but I think I am still going to use 4" eternabond tape across the cap seal.  I will also probably re-caulk the lights while I'm up there.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 16, 2020, 05:42:15 am
Joseph - leaks while sitting in the driveway with slide closed.  Leaks when it rains, leaks when i wash it (I'm going after it with a hose now to find leak).  The post above describes where it gets wet - the two transitions sections between cab and side walls.    Its running down from high in that area someplace.

A friend of mine had a suggestion that they use to find leaks on cars and he also uses it on RV's.  That is, treat it like a hole in an inner tube, pressurize the inside of the RV and look for leaks with soapy water on the outside.  That is what i am doing later today....

Bangorbob - I would stick with factory like products on the roof.  Lap Seal works real good and looks factory.  You can get it in black or white, use it everywhere there is a penetration. 

 
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Joseph on September 16, 2020, 09:29:38 am
Will, a pressure test is a great idea. Any idea how you will increase interior pressure for this?  Iíve seen some videos using everything from box fans to leaf blowers. 

Oh and the Dicor lap sealant that PC told me to use comes in clear as well.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 16, 2020, 10:32:55 am
Will, a pressure test is a great idea. Any idea how you will increase interior pressure for this?  Iíve seen some videos using everything from box fans to leaf blowers.
If doing your own pressure test, don't forget to set your dash board climate control to "recycle inside air" to prevent air from leaking through the the front cab.  The greater the pressure, the better the test results.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 16, 2020, 01:19:08 pm
Pressure test didn't work, but I found the leak.  Last night after everything got wet again from washing it, and I couldn't find the leak, my wife said maybe its leaking through the wall.  In my best pissed off engineering voice I told her that was not possible.

Well, turns out she was right, its leaking through the GD wall.  Actually, through the joint between the top of the angled wall and the cap.  There is a sealed seam there, once the paint peeled off the sealant, the water was free to run in.  So in summary, the paint was the only thing keeping the water out.  Nice.

Now I know what I have to fix to stop the leak....
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 16, 2020, 06:53:31 pm
So Will....
The leak on both sides were here.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50350820502_f0b4c98b25_z.jpg)
A sealant was used for those seams, but it was applied only to the outer surface.
It came off when you stripped the paint off which then the water came in.
Correct?
If I understand you correctly, this is something we should all inspect for.
For PC owners without full body paint, what does the sealant look like?  Any Pictures?
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: fandj on September 16, 2020, 07:50:32 pm
I have had good results using this sealant https://www.amazon.com/Geocel-GC28100-Flex-Flexible-Clear/dp/B001FC98X2/ref=pd_bxgy_2/137-8964730-2716510?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001FC98X2&pd_rd_r=3c3fdee2-4a4d-4b97-a49e-d925e94fbc57&pd_rd_w=KaN8d&pd_rd_wg=YYoZd&pf_rd_p=ce6c479b-ef53-49a6-845b-bbbf35c28dd3&pf_rd_r=7SP77EEQE111MFZZH1FK&psc=1&refRID=7SP77EEQE111MFZZH1FK (https://www.amazon.com/Geocel-GC28100-Flex-Flexible-Clear/dp/B001FC98X2/ref=pd_bxgy_2/137-8964730-2716510?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001FC98X2&pd_rd_r=3c3fdee2-4a4d-4b97-a49e-d925e94fbc57&pd_rd_w=KaN8d&pd_rd_wg=YYoZd&pf_rd_p=ce6c479b-ef53-49a6-845b-bbbf35c28dd3&pf_rd_r=7SP77EEQE111MFZZH1FK&psc=1&refRID=7SP77EEQE111MFZZH1FK)


You probably are already aware silicone while widely used nothing adheres to dried silicone.  This makes it problematic anytime ďrecaulkingĒ over old silicone.  The Geocel sealant is non silicone.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 17, 2020, 04:32:15 am
I have had good results using this sealant Geocel 28100V Pro Flex Crystal Clear RV Flexible Sealant - 10 oz, Quantity 1 (GC28100) (https://www.amazon.com/Geocel-GC28100-Flex-Flexible-Clear/dp/B001FC98X2/ref=pd_bxgy_2/137-8964730-2716510?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001FC98X2&pd_rd_r=3c3fdee2-4a4d-4b97-a49e-d925e94fbc57&pd_rd_w=KaN8d&pd_rd_wg=YYoZd&pf_rd_p=ce6c479b-ef53-49a6-845b-bbbf35c28dd3&pf_rd_r=7SP77EEQE111MFZZH1FK&psc=1&refRID=7SP77EEQE111MFZZH1FK)

You probably are already aware silicone while widely used nothing adheres to dried silicone.  This makes it problematic anytime ďrecaulkingĒ over old silicone.  The Geocel sealant is non silicone.
Good Tip!  2o2
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Joseph on September 17, 2020, 10:02:04 am
Ron , on mine itís a clear sealant.  I contacted PC some time back when I needed some and they advised to purchase DICOR lap sealant. Iíve purchased it in white and clear. Clear costs a bit more. Itís readily available online, Rv supply store and amazon.

The clear is a cap sealant designed not to run. The white is a self leveling.  The clear costs about 11+ a tube and the 502 white is 4 for $32 .    On both this includes shipping.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 17, 2020, 10:10:08 pm
I sealed those areas with:

3MĖ4000 UV Polyether Adhesive Sealant, Black

It went in easily, did not run and matched the PC color.  The paint was cracking and I just seal right over it.  Holding up well.

Ron S
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 18, 2020, 07:38:18 am
Ron - thats the correct seam.
Fandj - I ordered the same sealant last week....  Good choice.

Bad news -  I taped over that seam and stopped the leaks at home.  Went camping and it rained all night, I mean all night.  Leaks are back in a big way, the tape is holding but now water is coming coming from above the seam on the drivers side, and near joint at cab on passengers side.  I'll have to find these leaks when we get home.  I'm getting real tired of this......
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: donc13 on September 18, 2020, 08:52:59 am
This may, or may not be of any value.. Different make, model and year.

About 8 years ago, I had a similar problem on a 2008 Forest River Lexington 235.   I ended up opening the seam between the front cap and the body.  On the Lexington, once you lift off that inverted "u" shaped rubber cover, there was a "u" shaped metal piece that had a series of screws in it that held the cap to the body.  Many of those screws had become loose and/or were stripped out of the Interior piece they screwed into.

I ended up getting a bunch stainless steel #6 or #8 machine bolts, nylock nuts and washers and drilled thru the screw holes and bolted the cap and body together.  Caulked it all with silicone, put the rubber cover back on and no more leaks.  Totally dry for the rest of the time I owned it, which was 2 or 3 years.

I presume that seam would have been looked at.... But... Just a thought.

Don
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 18, 2020, 09:01:10 am
That seam is on my list.  I'm going to have my wife inside with a leaf blower and I am going to look outside with soap solution.....
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Sarz272000 on September 18, 2020, 09:08:54 am
If you haven't checked yet, look at the seam on roof btw roof and front cap.  This seam is painted over and cracks can be hard to see.  A line of self leveling dicor looks great and seals it well.

Ron S
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: donc13 on September 18, 2020, 09:32:20 am
That seam is on my list.  I'm going to have my wife inside with a leaf blower and I am going to look outside with soap solution.....

On the Lexington, on the inside, the original screws were into a piece of wood.  My memory is it was pine and about 1/2" x 1" which is why the screws stripped so easily and why I replaced them with bolts.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: donc13 on September 18, 2020, 10:50:11 am
That seam is on my list.  I'm going to have my wife inside with a leaf blower and I am going to look outside with soap solution.....

Honestly, I don't think a leaf blower will do much but don't know.  A better way may be to reverse the leads to the powered vent so it blows in, instead of out.  Turn it up to full speed and obviously close the other vents, windows, doors and cab a/c vents and see if you get enough airflow to show up leaks.

Not sure that will work either because there are a lot of openings (such as microwave vent, other ceiling vents, cab doors, etc. That don't seal. But it might be worth a try.

The other option is remove ceiling and transition wall panels and insulation , not an easy job at all, and look from the inside for water tracks and/or spraying the outside and looking for the water drops inside.   Yes, difficult job but maybe worth it.

Don
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: fandj on September 18, 2020, 11:34:46 am
I donít know if this will be any help in solving your immediate problem but might be something to think about.


A couple years ago I was inspecting our roof and I found what many others have reported that the Dicor while a good sealant it tends to dry out and develop cracks that overtime could result in leaks.  Fortunately it is relatively easy to clean and reapply the Dicor.  As I get older I want to minimize my trips up the ladder.  While not having any leaks where the front and rear fiberglass caps mate with the roof I decided as a further leak preventative to installI Eternabond tape over these joints.  This year after finding more brittleness in other areas of the Dicor I added Eternabond tape to all roof areas where I found Dicor used.


The photos show the front cap joint, roof to RV side, and front roof MaxxAir fan vent.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: RoadToNowhereRV on September 19, 2020, 09:17:20 am
Our main leaks were the two seals that seperate the cab from the body.  Both sides were what caused most of the damage.  We also had a leak coming in from the slide which we fixed as well.  Sorry for the delayed and short answer.  We lost our house in Hurricane Sally a few days ago BUT the Cruiser has no damage at all.  So it can be tough when it needs to be!  😊
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: donc13 on September 19, 2020, 11:00:45 am
Our main leaks were the two seals that seperate the cab from the body.  Both sides were what caused most of the damage.  We also had a leak coming in from the slide which we fixed as well.  Sorry for the delayed and short answer.  We lost our house in Hurricane Sally a few days ago BUT the Cruiser has no damage at all.  So it can be tough when it needs to be!  😊

Very sorry for the storm damage, hope FEMA and your insurance Co are very responsive.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Volkemon on September 19, 2020, 11:24:27 am
  We lost our house in Hurricane Sally a few days ago BUT the Cruiser has no damage at all.  So it can be tough when it needs to be!  😊

Sorry to hear!  We have friends in Marianna that are STILL trying to recover from Michael.  If you need to 'get away' in the cruiser, we are over on the east coast just above Sebastian. Plenty of room, 50A and water!
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 20, 2020, 02:04:46 am
.....We lost our house in Hurricane Sally a few days ago.....
I am so sorry for you.  I too hope you will be well taken care of by insurance and with state & federal assistance.  Hopefully when it is all said and done, you will be in better shape than before Sally.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: rvrunner on September 20, 2020, 07:39:45 am
I have not been popular on this forum but I'm going to chime in. My 2018 PC has been leaking around the slide for 2 yrs. I've taken it to the factory and 2 rv shops and it still leaks. I'm going back to the factory next month for numerous repairs. I had no idea that PC quality was this bad. I have 80,000 miles on so selling it would mean a big loss. I'm getting ready to head south for 4 months and have no confidence in my PC making the trip trouble free. I really don't know what to do at this point. I was planning to put  over 200,000 miles on my PC, I don't see it making it that far. I was in contact with an owner this spring who was selling his 3 yr old PC because of leaks, like me, he'd had enough. PC's are beautiful looking motorhomes but I'd never buy another one. Sorry to be such a downer but I just don't have any good news about my PC.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Volkemon on September 20, 2020, 09:08:43 am
I have not been popular on this forum but I'm going to chime in. My 2018 PC has been leaking around the slide for 2 yrs. I've taken it to the factory and 2 rv shops and it still leaks. I'm going back to the factory next month for numerous repairs. I had no idea that PC quality was this bad. I have 80,000 miles on so selling it would mean a big loss. I'm getting ready to head south for 4 months and have no confidence in my PC making the trip trouble free. I really don't know what to do at this point. I was planning to put  over 200,000 miles on my PC, I don't see it making it that far. I was in contact with an owner this spring who was selling his 3 yr old PC because of leaks, like me, he'd had enough. PC's are beautiful looking motorhomes but I'd never buy another one. Sorry to be such a downer but I just don't have any good news about my PC.

We initially got our 2006 with the idea that we would 'get our feet wet' and move into a new PC after seeing if a 2350 met our needs. We are now keeping it, as I feel we got the 'Cream of the Crop' in that era.


I was next to a sprinter based class C this last trip. Already set up when we got there, and i noticed the HUGE slide, and the aluminum post supports under it. 2 of them.  :beg

When they packed, the husband was out there pushing and massaging the slide back in while his partner was inside on the switch. His shouts of 'IN' and 'OUT' got my attention. Took a couple tries, but they got it in square.

Then as they drove around to hitch up the car, there was such an odd sound... finally figured out it was the hubcaps. Creaky sounds. Mrs V and I were both exchanging looks at this point. I asked Mrs V to see what year the camper was. GREAT looking rig... 2018 model year. OW.

Sorry for your experience.  But you are not alone. Thanks for sharing so others can learn.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 20, 2020, 09:44:24 am
Our PC is a 2007 2350.  We ordered it without a slide-out because of the potential for trouble with age, especially trouble with water.  Now that PCs are aging, people are posting issues with their slide-outs which unfortunately is not surprising.

What troubles me more are the posts of water mysteriously leaking in the frontal transition area.  That should be one of the more reliable connections.  Motor homes in general take a beating when being driven, with so much vibration and jolting.  Still a PC is supposed to hold up to that.

Finally getting to a project I planned a year ago, last August I attempted to reduce that beating in the forward part of our rig by changing the front springs to softer ones that better match our actual load.  CLICK HERE (https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=4168.0) to read about the project which includes many pictures.  My confidence in doing this seeming radical modification was fueled when I learned our front coil springs were the exact same ones installed on an E450.  I weighed our front axle twice, once with the rig empty, and a second time loaded up during a trip with us sitting in the front seats.  I used those weights to determine how soft of a front spring our rig needs with some margin to spare.  Since the change in front coil springs, our comfort up front is noticeably softer which our PC also appreciates.

To be clear, this modification does not apply to every PC model.  But maybe some models with their front axle payloads should be evaluated.  One easy thing everyone can do is to weigh your rig during a trip with you inside it, then adjust your tire pressure based on that weight.  More air than required translates to a harder ride than necessary.

Back to the subject, I hope you figure out soon, how water is getting inside.  Every PC owner should monitor this thread.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Joseph on September 20, 2020, 10:17:45 am
Rvrunner.   I canít say Iíd ever expect one of these units to make 200,000 miles. I know I wouldnít keep a unit if it was a constant problem as you consider yours. Sometimes the aggravation isnít worth it and itís time to unload it and move on.  Some money lost of course but a lot of stress is gone as well.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: donc13 on September 20, 2020, 04:41:03 pm
I have not been popular on this forum but I'm going to chime in. My 2018 PC has been leaking around the slide for 2 yrs. I've taken it to the factory and 2 rv shops and it still leaks. I'm going back to the factory next month for numerous repairs. I had no idea that PC quality was this bad. I have 80,000 miles on so selling it would mean a big loss. I'm getting ready to head south for 4 months and have no confidence in my PC making the trip trouble free. I really don't know what to do at this point. I was planning to put  over 200,000 miles on my PC, I don't see it making it that far. I was in contact with an owner this spring who was selling his 3 yr old PC because of leaks, like me, he'd had enough. PC's are beautiful looking motorhomes but I'd never buy another one. Sorry to be such a downer but I just don't have any good news about my PC.

I admit, I am surprised that neither PC nor an RV shop can properly fix the leaks.   I am presuming the leakage occurs mostly while the slide is out?   I say that because (another presumption) the seal between the slide and body shouldn't leak when the slide is closed, even if driving in the rain.  For all intent and purposes, there is a closed cell sponge rubber seal all the way around the slide that should conform exactly to the gap between the slide and body.

If it does not, especially after 3 repairs, indicates very poor engineering anf/or construction.  When you get to PC this time, and I am sure you will, I would politely but firmly demand they do whatever is needed to fix, up to and including a rebuild of the slide and body, or you would have no choice but to see them in court.

200,000 miles is a lot of miles, but with proper maintenance, should be very doable in my opinion.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: rvrunner on September 20, 2020, 06:03:49 pm
The slide leaks when it is in, you are correct about the seal around the slide. I've actually had 6 leaks, 3 in the slide. I pointed out to the last repair shop that it was the main seal across the top of the slide, It stopped leaking in steady rain but still leaks a little in a down pour.
 My last motorhome, a 2011 Winnebago View had 239,000 miles when I sold it. Last I heard it had 260,000 miles and still going strong. It never had a leak.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 20, 2020, 07:46:52 pm
If driving so many miles in a very short period of time along with proper maintenance intervals (and avoiding winter's salted roadways) you might get a lot more than 200,000 miles of reliable RVing.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 21, 2020, 06:48:57 am
RoadToNowhereRV - thanks for responding given your situation.  Best of luck with it all I couldn't imagine going through all that.

Others - thanks for the input.  The leak search continues now that we are home and it has stopped raining.  I have to believe the big leak was from the slide, it was not leaking like this before we went camping and it seemed to slow a bit when we closed the slide and tilted the rig hard to the drivers side.  Other leaks were clearly dripping from above.  The search goes on.

Once we fix the leaks I can start looking at the damage and see if I can fix it or if it has to go back to Indiana.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 21, 2020, 12:44:32 pm
Once we fix the leaks I can start looking at the damage and see if I can fix it or if it has to go back to Indiana.
While looking for your leaks, I would place a constant-drain dehumidifier inside and run it 24/7 to dry up everything as quick as possible, and let it cycle on/off as it deems necessary to maintain dryness.  I would set it just shy of constant-on.  That is cheap insurance to avoid wood rot or mold.  Discolored (gray colored) wood from getting wet is okay as long as it did not loose it's strength (not delaminated, rot/soft, or moldy).
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on September 22, 2020, 01:27:19 pm
Iíve been using your approach because I think itís a lot more compatible with the insurance company. I was thinking an RV fire might be a lot more effective though.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on September 22, 2020, 04:27:29 pm
Iíve been using your approach because I think itís a lot more compatible with the insurance company. I was thinking an RV fire might be a lot more effective though.
Maybe a faulty dehumidifier will do just that for you.  roflol
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on October 12, 2020, 06:17:18 am
So, it's been raining here, sort of a leak test for me.

The areas I sealed have stopped all leaks from above, yeah.  Water still runs in under the slide when it is OUT (and raining).  I have some thoughts but want to talk to the factory and get their input first.  Unless they changed how they build these, I don't know how they all don't leak.  See photos.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 12, 2020, 06:45:13 am
Hi Will,

I would be the last person to provide input, but I read often about the importance in having the slide out "tipped" away from the motor home.  If your 2910 has a slide out on each side, I imagine over-all rig "levelness" would be exceptionally important with the hope that the preset "tip" is proper.  If not, can you adjust the "tip" any further?
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on October 12, 2020, 07:31:30 am
We have two slides so we can, but then all then blood runs to your head when sleeping (kidding).  A 3-slide unit, good luck.  It was only slightly out of level when it leaked.  I'd like to NOT rely on a 3D Laser Leveling System for it to NOT leak.....
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on October 12, 2020, 07:52:38 am
I'd like to NOT rely on a 3D Laser Leveling System for it to NOT leak.....
  I surely understand.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on October 12, 2020, 09:28:24 am
I spoke to the factory, they did change the design since ours was built.  We will be adding caulking at the luan piece and more of the gutter.  FYI.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: emcee on October 12, 2020, 12:31:46 pm
I'm rehabbing a 2004 that has the same issue as the OP's coach. Leaks in the vertical seam between the fiberglass transition piece and the coach wall. The best you can do is to be very diligent in maintaining these joints as there's no way to inspect on the inside without removing the wall panels over the transition pieces. Also had leaks from the marker lights and a grommet under the engine cowl (these leaks ended up on the driver side foot area which is one of the reasons why there is now no carpet in the cab), the water heater (also caused hidden floor water damage) and the emergency egress window (caused by a modification).
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on October 12, 2020, 01:43:48 pm
Looks nice.  When you are done, want to run over to my house?
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Sarz272000 on October 12, 2020, 02:13:53 pm
Found this on slide leak, FYI.

Ron S

https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=1967.msg15466#msg15466
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: emcee on October 12, 2020, 03:18:54 pm
Looks nice.  When you are done, want to run over to my house?

Lol - It would have been done a month ago but for the seats that were ordered in June. BTW I'm also in Virginia (Winchester).
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Carol on October 12, 2020, 05:09:49 pm
Emcee--Thank you for providing such welcome info for the rest of us!  (Thank you also to Peace be the Journey!). I have had a mystery leak for YEARS in the cab on the driver's side.  It causes the carpet under the brake pedal area to become wet, but even when raining heavily, it's nigh unto impossible to see where the drips are coming from.  No one has been able to find the source and, like you, I ripped out the carpet so that at least it could air out when it rained.  You mentioned a problem with a leaky grommet under the engine cowl.  I am mechanically inept and need a bit more explanation of what/where that would be.  Where do I look?  I am hoping this solves my long-running, frustrating mystery.
Thank you!
Carol
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: rvrunner on October 12, 2020, 10:48:07 pm
Carol, miy PC had a leak on the cab floor drivers side. PC ran wires through the firewall (that's behind the brake pedal) and did not caulk where the wires came threw. My Ford dealer found the problem.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Carol on October 13, 2020, 05:30:33 am
Thanks, RVrunner.  That makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on October 13, 2020, 06:15:58 am
Lol - It would have been done a month ago but for the seats that were ordered in June. BTW I'm also in Virginia (Winchester).
[/quote]

Nice, We are in Washington (Rappahannock) so it won't take you long to get here.  Ha.  I start reassembly tonight.  Need to fabricate some generator hangers, it was supported by wood before, I like metal.  The Factory found some matching laminate and that should be on the way.  Wont be a bad job, and will be literally better than new.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: emcee on October 13, 2020, 08:16:58 am
Emcee--Thank you for providing such welcome info for the rest of us!  (Thank you also to Peace be the Journey!). I have had a mystery leak for YEARS in the cab on the driver's side.  It causes the carpet under the brake pedal area to become wet, but even when raining heavily, it's nigh unto impossible to see where the drips are coming from.  No one has been able to find the source and, like you, I ripped out the carpet so that at least it could air out when it rained.  You mentioned a problem with a leaky grommet under the engine cowl.  I am mechanically inept and need a bit more explanation of what/where that would be.  Where do I look?  I am hoping this solves my long-running, frustrating mystery.
Thank you!
Carol

If you remove the driver side wiper cowl panel (see photo), and look through the hole (~4") in the stamped metal underneath (near the fender), you will see the oval grommet (~2,5" x 1.5") in the firewall that the windshield wiper motor wires pass through.

The grommet is pretty flimsy and a lot of water runs around it as it's draining off the windshield. I'm guessing that if it ever really stopped 100% of that water then it was only until about 5 minutes after the Ford warranty expired.

It's awkward to get to but what I did was put lots of dicor lap sealant all around it.

A hose test before and after proved that this was definitely the source of the leak and that the dicor stopped it.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Carol on October 13, 2020, 05:45:11 pm
Thank you so much for those details, Emcee.  I took a picture of your description for the next time I have an RV repair person around to help me with this.  It all makes a lot of sense, though, as you describe it.  Including the fact that the leak is worse when the RV's rear is lower than the front, and not so bad at all (or non-existent) when the RV is tilted more to the front.  Something that took a loooooong time to notice.  Will keep y'all posted on my findings/results, but it will be a little while before I have the help needed to pursue this solution.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on November 02, 2020, 10:37:09 am
I posted pics above to show where the water was running into the coach under the slide.  These photos show what I did to stop those leaks.  We had two good all day rains since and no leaks.

This shows enhancements to keep water that runs down the slide wall from getting under the slide.  I did this to the fronts and backs of both slides.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: WillLloyd on November 02, 2020, 10:39:46 am
And this shows the work under the slide to close off the "pipe" where water ran from the outside to the inside.
Title: Re: "Peace be the Journey" damage pictures and repair thread.
Post by: Ron Dittmer on November 02, 2020, 08:59:17 pm
Will, Our PC has no slide out, but if we did, I would be following your lead because it makes a lot of sense.

I am surely a dummy when it comes to slide outs, but it appears your 2016 model has the previous generation slide out.  I imagine your fix would benefit either type.