Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: bigbadjc on February 20, 2012, 02:42:57 pm
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I know several people have complained about intermittant problems with their backup cameras. My wife went camping with her girlfriend last week during very stormy weather in the Lake Livingston area. My wife took our 2006 PC 2551 which has always been stored inside and has only 15K miles on it. Twice the same problem occurred. After driving in the hard rain and everything being normal, she stopped the camper for a few minutes. On restarting it, the rear camera, the turn lights, and the windshield wipers quit working. Eventually they came back on and worked properly. I have to assume that the failures were caused by the rain and were related, since they all happened together. That implies to me that PC must have hung the power cord for the rear tv system to the chassis fuse or breaker for the turn signals and wipers. Has anyone else had the same problem? Has anyone ever had reason to find out where the rear tv is hooked to the electrical system? If we assume the tv camera cord is getting wet and shorting out at a connection inside the back sheathing, would simply sealing the sheathing cure it or do I need to have it fished out to the first connector and clean and seal that connector? Does it sound like I need an RV repair shop or the Ford dealer? Would be glad for any input anyone has. Thanks.
Jerry pyho
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Glad you brought it up, Jerry.
I'm still just a wannabe an' all, but the camera issue is something that has "bothered" me simply as a "bench racer" - as a peruser of photographs of completed units on the Phoenix Website, as well as on many other associated RV sites.
When looking at the wiring from the camera as routed into the rear cap of the Phoenix units, you'll notice that the camera lead usually has no slack, and is directed "downhill" directly into the nacelle.
It would seem to me, as a friend of numerous aquarium devotees, as well as a frequent viewer of “Holmes on Homes”; one need consider a “drip edge” to everything external. Whether a permanent change to Phoenix’s practice or not, were I to commission a Phoenix Cruiser build-out for myself, I’d ask that there be an excess loop of the camera lead that would dip down below the drilled nacelle before connecting uphill – providing a “drip edge”.
Whether this proves to be in support of your theory advanced, I would still think that providing this excess camera lead, which would create an EXTERNAL drip point below the lead’s nacelle, it’s entry point into the rear cap - would be superior practice.
While I would personally specify it, I would hope that Phoenix does the same. A $5 dollar fix to what might be a $1,000 dollar problem. My 2 cents.
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The introduction of moisture into the electrical system, provided such "problems" clear up later? Well. one can perhaps be patient and live with it.
But the possible introduction of moisture into the rear cap and all the underlying structure there? Much more serious, and worth another $5 and another 5 minutes' attention to detali.
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Glad you brought it up, Jerry.
providing a “drip edge”.
Whether this proves to be in support of your theory advanced, I would still think that providing this excess camera lead, which would create an EXTERNAL drip point below the lead’s nacelle, it’s entry point into the rear cap - would be superior practice.
/quote]
After my camera failure following a wash job with pressure washer on the roof and rear cap, I pulled enough cabling out to provide a drip loop and no failures since.
Also decided that a little clear bathroom caulk around the grommet and wire was in order. That clear stuff is a bit messy to work with but provides a good seal and is
strippable(?) so it comes off easily if necessary.
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Our first PC was a 2006. We didn’t have an intermittent problem – it just quit working. And during a month trip. And out of warranty. Called the manufacture (don’t remember the name), and they replaced it when we got home. Have a 2011 now with a Sony, it’s great.
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We have the 2007 model of the backup camera, brand unknown. It's been reliable except for the sound which sometimes stops working when wet. I assume a drop of water covers over the microphone. When dry, it consistently works fine. I don't consider it a failure. More like a design flaw of the camera assembly itself. It is irritating because I rely heavily on my wife's verbal instructions when backing up. She stands back there saying "left, right stop". When working, the sound is extremely sensitive. She can almost whisper instruction which is real handy when pulling in late at night.
I heard the newer back up camera does not have sound.
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I don't need the sound, I hear my wife in my head. Like right after I backed the A into a tree, I distinctly heard; "I told you so".
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I never use the sound feature anyway, so that wouldn't bother me. My real concern is that the outage of the camera, which appears to be something other people have observed, is accompanied by the loss of the windshield wipers and turn signals. This leads me to believe they must be on the same circuit. Does anyone know where PC picks up the electrical power for the rear view camera??
Jerry
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I don't know where the camera power comes from on newer rigs, however I do know that some critical circuits are now on automatic resetting circuit breakers and wipers are one of those. I suspect the warning flashers/turn signals may also be on those types of circuits. Kinda makes some kind of sense that the camera may also be tied in to that type circuit. The days of over engineering 50 to 100% are way over so those circuits may also be marginal with the least amount of high current draw like when things get wet and short directly to ground.
Just my opinion here and it may be way off base.
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Wow! This is why I love PC, and why I love this forum!
Speaking from personal experience on all levels, I’m unaware of ANY other entity, be it commercial, political or of public concern in any way; that allows a public forum such as this. Certainly, there are other public forums that commentate, but I have yet to see ANY as are linked directly from the official website!
It’s a HUGE risk to take, yet take it, PC does. THAT impresses me beyond imagining. This is an organization that welcomes constructive critiques of its products and endeavors, and takes same to heart. This is a dynamic organization, people!
(Similar to Ron’s call for a battery compartment splashguard on the 2350’s).
I only comment further as I was concerned that I might have seemed “bitchy”, rather than attempting to be constructive, which is always my aim. I wanna PC too! It’s a minor issue, yet annoying nonetheless. It’s perfection we seek, and it appears that it’s perfection PC tries to deliver.
What with all that’s discussed here, when it comes time to place my order for my PC, I know I’ll have the nearest thing to a “perfect” B+ as can possibly be attained at the time of my order!
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Drip loops are everywhere. In the case of an aquarium enthusiast, every potential point of water shorting of equipment and power supply are drip-looped, ensuring sloppy water management will in no way short or interrupt electrical systems.
In the case of pole-supplied service of electricity, phone, cable, etc to a home, or such lineage from pole to pole, you’ll see drip loops interrupting connections between various voltage supplies. And gee – I used to think these excess loops were simply slack that was generously provided for junior woodsmen, whose enthusiastic back yard tree-felling across strung wires were simply meant to absorb the shock of arboreal impacts! (Don’t ask!) LOL!
And in the case of home construction, whatever foundation penetrations by any buried utility - whether electric, cable, phone, well water line, etc? No matter how well sealed by various “goo’s” – if the line penetration to the foundation originates uphill of the penetration, you’ll have leakage – either from condensation or ground saturation along that line and through the penetration. Unless you incorporate a gravity drip loop OUTSIDE of the foundation wall.
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lghjr Said:
>>>> “After my camera failure following a wash job with pressure washer on the roof and rear cap, I pulled enough cabling out to provide a drip loop and no failures since.
That’s great news! If there’s enough ordinary slack already from the factory, all we need do is pull some out and loop it. And as you noted, no failures since!
>>>> “Also decided that a little clear bathroom caulk around the grommet and wire was in order.”
I would/will do the same – yet gravity’s power is far more enduring and reliable than “goo”. But don’t forget the “goo” either!
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bigbadjc/Jerry Said:
>>>> “My real concern is that the outage of the camera, which appears to be something other people have observed, is accompanied by the loss of the windshield wipers and turn signals. This leads me to believe they must be on the same circuit. Does anyone know where PC picks up the electrical power for the rear view camera?”
And I think your observations are actual and valid. Actual observed symptoms are worth a thousand warranty write-ups. And I think you’re correct. Consider this:
1) As far as the cab chassis circuits are concerned - other than 70’s and 80’s Chryslers – those existing cab circuits from the chassis manufacturers are now and historically flawless and bulletproof.
2) When considering other RV manufacturers and their chassis – whether Ford, GM, Mercedes? In addition to rear cameras, some also offer side-view cameras as well. If you have selected these side-view camera options, the views provided are not only fed to the rear-view camera screen, but are ACTUATED via the use of the turn signals. Activating the left-hand turn signal provides the left-side camera view to the rear-view monitor screen, and so the same for the right.
3) Whether chassis are provided PC or any other manufacturer, all RV chassis’ basic wiring as provided for various purposes to ANY RV manufacturer are identical. As in the above example, we can easily see an actual wiring link between turn signals AND the camera displays.
4) Moisture AND gravity rule. Apparently, without an external drip loop, moisture travels downward along the camera lead to an exposed link or circuit somewhere. “Goo” or otherwise.
Wipers? Could very well be linked to the same fuse or circuit as well. At least it’s obvious that standard RV chassis wiring practices across the industry and most chassis link turn signal functions to the camera display.
Apparently, a drip “dip”’ will do ya!
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Just a sorta side note here. On my 2010 2350 I had a nice big screen to see my rear(so to speak) On my 2012 I have a little dinky rear screen in the rearview mirror. Now, I am in my 40's and I can hardly see that screen and what behind me. So, I can hardly believe that people older than I like that little screen. Is is just me?
I will call the Co shortly and see if I can swap with somebody for the old one. My old 2350 is now for sale on the Company website. Think I can get my old screen??
DJM
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When we had our 2552 built, I requested that we get the larger screen instead of the one in the mirror. Carol was able to get one for me. You might want to call her and see if just the larger monitor can be had and what it would take to hook it up. It maybe just a case of moving the wire from the mirror to the new monitor, but then again it may take a different camera.
After I picked up the PC I started thinking again (sometimes a good thing, sometimes not) and wondered what it would be like to have two cameras on the back. One hooked to the larger screen and pointed down and the other hooked to the mirror and pointed farther back at the traffic.
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I never knew the backup camera later got integrated into the rear view mirror. Ours is mounted in front of it but higher and though it is a very nice size, somehow my head finds it when getting in and out from the driver seat. Given the mirror does no good except for monitering indoor activities, I contemplated mounting the camera where the mirror is today to get it out of the way of my head.
Are there any pictures on the Phoenix website of the camera-in-mirror?. I am curious what it looks like.
Here is mine, a 2007 model with sound.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5243/5353482052_171debbfa8_b.jpg)
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Ron,
Our 2011 PC 2350 has the backup camera, with sound, integrated with the backup mirror. Unfortunately, it is not parked at our house, or I would take a picture. We are pleased with it being one unit rather than 2 separate pieces. We don't have problems with bumping into it. We don't have problems "seeing" it. We feel it functions fine for us. We actually were very happy when we picked it up to see it was "all in one". We never had it separate- so it might just be a case of what one gets used to.
Roni
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Ron,
Our 2011 PC 2350 has the backup camera, with sound, integrated with the backup mirror. Unfortunately, it is not parked at our house, or I would take a picture. We are pleased with it being one unit rather than 2 separate pieces. We don't have problems with bumping into it. We don't have problems "seeing" it. We feel it functions fine for us. We actually were very happy when we picked it up to see it was "all in one". We never had it separate- so it might just be a case of what one gets used to.
Roni
I would love to see a pic of the backup mirror turned on. Maybe someone else has a pic. Maybe PC-USA has a pic of it shown for one of their models.
So yours has sound too? Nice that you have that. Is the speaker in the mirror as well?
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The speaker comes through the mirror. It is one way- the driver can hear the person out back. The person out back can't hear the driver.
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Ron,
Although I am not able to send a picture. Here's the website for the backup mirror.
http://www.magnadyne.net/index.cfm?MasterAction=Item&InvMasID=25281&Web_CatID=221
Hope this helps-
Roni
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Thanks for the link. That looks real slick. But I do understand the complaint about it being on the small side. It is hard to say which is preferered.
Adding:
(http://www.magnadyne.net/MagPublic/Pictures/M45TC.jpg)
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I wonder if one could splice a big video screen into the mirror. I may have to check this idea out this weekend.....
DJM
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My own personal preference as a potential PC owner and solo fulltimer?
I would rather delete the rearview mirror altogether, and rely on a larger rear-view carmera display in its place otherwise.
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I have the Sony monitor without the mirror. When I start the engine, I can see what is behind the coach. I have add a 8" extention with coupler from Kayalu. The monitor is now positioned where the mirror would be. Now the monitor is like looking in the rear view mirror.
George
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I have the Sony monitor without the mirror. When I start the engine, I can see what is behind the coach. I have add a 8" extention with coupler from Kayalu. The monitor is now positioned where the mirror would be. Now the monitor is like looking in the rear view mirror. George
I really like that George !
Hey, What are those leuvers in your side window? Do they have screens in them? Where did you get them? Are they fairly secure for security sake? Would you leave the rig unattended with them installed?
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Ron
This is a screened louver vent that I made with plexiglass. The louver fits in the window track. The bottom of the louver has a rubber channel that seals over the window glass. Originally, I made one for the sprinter. I leave this up when I do not need AC. The screen lets in a nice air flow. Everything to make one can be found at the hardware store.
George
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Getting back to my original topic, I now have my motorhome in the shop for loss of back up camera, turn signals, stop lights, dash lights, windshield wipers, and other electrical maladies. Because it occurred after being out in a torrential storm, my inclination was that it was related to this. It is still in the shop, but the initial diagnosis is that I need a new ignition lock and possibly a cam that goes with it. It seems my lock does not return to the same correct place after it is in the starter crank position and that different sets of contacts are being made with different functions being disabled. Compared to other possibilities, it will probably be a relatively simple fix. Just thought you all might be interested in this if you ever have similar troubles. Mine may be aggravated by the fact that my 6 year old unit was driven only 4K miles by the first owner in the first 4 years and the mechanism may have gotten gummed up from lack of use.
Jerry
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Huh -
Never thought of that, JC -
"Gummy-ness" and humidity both are a poor marriage. I can see that as a great possibility, especially for a rarely used vehicle.
In terms of faulty ignition switches, another issue can be excessive key ring sets. Get enough keys and fob weight swinging and jouncing in the ignition switch over time, and that can also result in premature wear of the switch - especially on modern vehicles. I've seen some folks whose key ring sets look like they were correctional officers at shawshank! LOL!
I carry my 2 keys individually, one in each front pocket. The single keys alone are not bothersome, and at least twice in the last 30 years, were my salvation.
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My wife's everyday set of keys is starting to resemble a chandelier with all the bling.
When leaving on a vacation, I hand over her own set of "Trip" keys which has only what she needs for the motor home, 4 keys in-all. I include an illuminous orange plastic fob to find the keys quickly if dropped in tall grass or weeds. I learned that from one bad experience. When hiking and such, my wife leaves her purse in the motor home so the compact keys are friendly for her little blue jean pockets.