Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: DownBy TheRiver on October 21, 2011, 05:17:49 pm
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Hi All –
I’ve been away for quite some time now. But I continue to read and lurk here and elsewhere trying to educate myself.
I would first like to thank you all so much for contributing to my education, with particular gratitude to Ron Dittmer. What I particularly appreciate in his comments here and elsewhere is what it is that constitutes “best practice” when it comes to design, materials and workmanship. If only newsstand RV publications would be as thorough and critical as he is in his evaluations and information!
Ron – have you ever thought to start some sort of publication in this regard? Other than my RV interests, I am also keenly interested in home design/construction, as well as in automotive topics. While those fields of endeavor have numerous technically informative and critical publications available, I don’t see anything even close when it comes to RV’s.
As I am at the point where I’m seriously considering becoming a work-camper-style full-timer, critical and informative information as regards materials, design, mechanicals and longevity are increasingly desired, yet in very short supply. Unlike many long-term enthusiasts, I have neither the past practical experience nor the financial luxury of making any dreadful mistakes the first time around.
To that end, were I to go with a “B+” RV, I’d most likely choose a Phoenix Cruiser over all others.
My question to you all is, can I happily exist as a full-timer in a B+ PC as well as I might in a “shorty” Class A of similar length?
I guess the only differences I can perceive at my price point is that a PC is better constructed over a similarly priced Class A, not to mention other B+’s. So my only real questions regard water tankage and overall storage.
The “program”:
I’m a single guy with no pets, and anticipate an occasional 2nd “visitor” from time to time.
If in a northern climate (Dakotas), I would seek out conventional accommodations December through March.
If dry camping, coach servicing at 2 weeks at a time is preferred, although 1 week at a time is do-able.
Will I miss the additional 15-30 gallons of fresh water capacity or greater external gross storage?
I’m currently focused on a 2900 or 2910, albeit with some interior mods, particularly if deleting the dinette slide on the 2910, and substituting with a desk/office/storage cum lunch counter in this area. While I can see I’d have more-than-adequate adequate interior storage generally in these models for months-at-a-time, I am entirely uncertain of needed storage capability for years-at-a-time. Specifically, storage devoted to general household cleaning & maintenance necessities, equipment and supplies; as well as same for maintenance of the RV and toad.
Whatdayathink?
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To that end, were I to go with a “B+” RV, I’d most likely choose a Phoenix Cruiser over all others.
My question to you all is, can I happily exist as a full-timer in a B+ PC as well as I might in a “shorty” Class A of similar length?
Better in my opinion. My wife and I spent over six months in our 2350, with me working "at home" full time and we're still married. :) We could have kept going indefinitely, but real life intervened. :) We started from the same position as you: no previous experience, couldn't afford to screw up.
So my only real questions regard water tankage and overall storage.
Tanks and storage are definitely the areas where class A's appear to have the advantage. We felt the advantage of the B+ (not coming apart like a Pringle in a woodchipper on impact) outweighed this. :)
I’m a single guy with no pets, and anticipate an occasional 2nd “visitor” from time to time.
Unsolicited free advice: If you're not wanting everybody around you to know what you and your visitor do for fun, get the leveling jacks or some other way to firmly stabilize the thing.
If dry camping, coach servicing at 2 weeks at a time is preferred, although 1 week at a time is do-able.
Maybe the bigger PC's you're looking at will do this, but for a single guy with good hygiene, the grey tank is probably enough for about a week. To get to two weeks, you may end up "showering" with body wipes from time to time. The fresh tank is probably less of an issue. (Though I'm really not sure how much bigger the tanks are in the 29XX series... bigger tanks can only help.)
Since you mention dry camping, I'll point out that the only class A that was even remotely close to the 2350 in price was a "value line" that did not provide a generator.
I’m currently focused on a 2900 or 2910, albeit with some interior mods, particularly if deleting the dinette slide on the 2910, and substituting with a desk/office/storage cum lunch counter in this area.
I am very pro-slide. It made a huge difference for us in making sure there was enough room not to get claustrophobic.
While I can see I’d have more-than-adequate adequate interior storage generally in these models for months-at-a-time, I am entirely uncertain of needed storage capability for years-at-a-time. Specifically, storage devoted to general household cleaning & maintenance necessities, equipment and supplies; as well as same for maintenance of the RV and toad.
The 29XX are definitely going to have a lot more room for storage than ours; I was limited to one good-sized toolbox, which I kept inside the unit between two seats because I didn't want my tools rusting. Your basic household cleaning and regular RV maintenance stuff we kept under the sink. If you're customizing, give some thought to getting rid of as much carpet as you can stand to do without, because sweeping with a small broom is a heck of a lot more pleasant than getting on your hands and knees and vacuuming with a dustbuster.
For bonus storage, consider getting a toad that's well suited to cargo, and preferably a new one with a warranty to handle most of the maintenance. That keeps your tools needed down, and an awful lot of places don't want you working on your car or RV on-site anyway.
As far as working, the one thing I would have needed to keep going indefinitely was a bigger desk and a way to bring my real computer along. It felt OK while I was doing it, but when we stopped, I really noticed the productivity difference between the laptop and the 27" desktop screen. :) Of course that depends a lot on the type of work. So, since you don't have to share the space, I think trying to get a desk built in is a great idea. The downside would be that it might really hurt your resale value.
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DownBy TheRiver,
Your comments humble me.
jdw has provided you with great insight for full-timing. As our trips in our 2007-2350 never exceed 3 weeks at a time, I cannot comment on much in that regards.
jdw did mention how his gray sewage tank fills quickly. Ours does too as we both have 2350s where the gray tanks hold only 23 gallons. To squeek past that, I simply open both gray and black tank valves and blend the two into one large 58 gallon tank. Phoenix USA taught me that trick on pick-up day in 2007.
There happens to be a 2900 on Ebay right now, a 2005 with less than 3000 miles located on a dealer lot in Fredrick Colorado. Current bid is $20,100 with no reserve. You might want to look at it, if only for reference. The single biggest complaint I have with it, is the dinette in the slideout. My wife and I found that very confining, learned when visiting the factory in 2007. If I was a single person purchising that particular one for full-timing, I would gut that slideout and put in something more friendly. Maybe install a desk/table with good upper and lower storage, adding a free-standing single comfy chair stool that stays on the main floor, using the step-up as a foot rest. I also think that particular one on Ebay has only one battery and no inverter. I would miss not having twin batteries & inverter. Maybe something could be retro-fitted, though would be quite a challenge. Lastly, I would replace the barrel chair with a 3rd captain seat, making that my recliner for TV and whatnot.
But there is nothing like special ordering a brand new PC made exactly as one wants with everything just right. They make each to standard specs, but will customise per individual needs at little to no extra cost.
Click Here to see it on Ebay. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110760054916&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjA5WDk3NQ==/$(KGrHqF,!mEE6Cdj+)f,BOnJq6PcpQ~~60_3.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQxWDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqF,!lkE6BvYm)TMBOnJq8ydDQ~~60_3.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqV,!isE6IMUZjK9BOnJq6z(vQ~~60_3.JPG)
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Hi:
Here is a thought. If you order one, can you have larger tanks installed? If you buy a used one, can you change them out?
Just a thought.
DJM
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Hey there, jdw –
Thank you so much for generous commentary and advice. Lots of food for thought.
You said:
>>>> “ I am very pro-slide. It made a huge difference for us in making sure there was enough room not to get claustrophobic.”
Agreed. Whether settling on a 2900 “as is”, or in a modified 2910, would still have the queen bed slide + the sofa slide in any case. In considering a modified 2910, would be deleting the 3rd curbside dinette slide-out, ending up with a solid wall and a nice big window at desk height that could also be flanked by cabinet storage both below the desk/counter and above – which could perhaps be made even greater by substituting a slightly smaller stock window and other stock tall cabinetry, should they exist and work out.
>>>> “As far as working, the one thing I would have needed to keep going indefinitely was a bigger desk and a way to bring my real computer along. It felt OK while I was doing it, but when we stopped, I really noticed the productivity difference between the laptop and the 27" desktop screen.”
Agreed again – a “real” computer & monitor, along with a “real” printer in a dedicated, secure and well-fastened or anchored space for same would be ideal. Plus as a full timer, need additional storage, particularly for “household” files and records, etc. I am a voracious reader, writer and blogger – recreationally. I need fulsome and entirely unconstrained space. As “Moe Fine” (of 3 Stooges fame) was wont to say, “Spread out, you numbskulls!” LOL!
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>>>> “Of course that depends a lot on the type of work. So, since you don't have to share the space, I think trying to get a desk built in is a great idea.
From all my extracurricular reading and research of long timers and full timers, yes.
Living here in the Chicago area, and being of a certain age (50), and having been “middle management” in all sorts of various industries, and having been unemployed for over 3 years now, am finally considering getting to “where the jobs are”, which right now, are in the Dakotas.
Here in Chicago, WAY over-qualified for what is available, yet the job market being so constrained, cannot and have not; been considered for ANY job “beneath my abilities” when 20-somethings are available – even at the same or lesser cost. Not bitter – I myself have been in that very same position in the past in making those very same determinations for the same applicants in the past.
You can’t keep the storm from comin’: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsfUXGe17TE
>>>> “Tanks and storage are definitely the areas where class A's appear to have the advantage. We felt the advantage of the B+ (not coming apart like a Pringle in a woodchipper on impact) outweighed this.”
LOL! LMFAO!!! (My apologies, to our “younger and more “sensitive” readers”!!!) As well as in all manner of “woodchipper” imagery as seen in the movie, “Fargo”! LOL!
Absolutely! And that also goes to Ron Dittmer’s discussions of seams at corners, etc. Not to mention finding replacement windshields and kinds of other standard chassis parts in the coming years.
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>>>> “ Unsolicited free advice: If you're not wanting everybody around you to know what you and your visitor do for fun, get the leveling jacks or some other way to firmly stabilize the thing. “
Darn it, jdw! Gonna have to keep all that canned whip cream well-boxed and bagged! LOL!
Now that I’m looking for longer term and for a larger unit than before, I would go for jacks in any case. Can’t see storing and futzing with leveling blocks, among other things.
>>>> “Maybe the bigger PC's you're looking at will do this, but for a single guy with good hygiene, the grey tank is probably enough for about a week. To get to two weeks, you may end up "showering" with body wipes from time to time.”
Or depending on site privacy and “city” water, there IS the external shower.
>>>> “Since you mention dry camping, I'll point out that the only class A that was even remotely close to the 2350 in price was a "value line" that did not provide a generator.”
As well as all kinds of weak corner seams, crappy roof structures, along with all the “Pringle in a woodchipper” imagery and reality! LOL!
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>>>> “ If you're customizing, give some thought to getting rid of as much carpet as you can stand to do without, because sweeping with a small broom is a heck of a lot more pleasant than getting on your hands and knees and vacuuming with a dustbuster.”
Again, agreed. Lino throughout. Comfy slippers are a much more wise investment. Hey, I’m 50, OK? Comforts and conveniences no longer embarrass me.
>>>> “For bonus storage, consider getting a toad that's well suited to cargo, and preferably a new one with a warranty to handle most of the maintenance. That keeps your tools needed down, and an awful lot of places don't want you working on your car or RV on-site anyway.”
Curses! Foiled again! Have a 2007 Rav-4 automatic AWD with 45K miles, and NOT a recommended 4-wheel-down toad! GRRRR! Agreed, nonetheless. Could probably trade even for a new, manual stick Hyundai, Honda or Ford and be happy anyway.
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Hi:
Here is a thought. If you order one, can you have larger tanks installed? If you buy a used one, can you change them out?
Just a thought.
DJM
Reviving an old thread to ask if adding larger tanks is possible? We're hoping to do some boondocking. Specifically, can larger tanks (gray and/or black) be done on the 2552, does anyone know? Thanks!
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Call the factory on that question. I suspect it will be little if any at all.
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The current tanks fit pretty snug in between the frame and the walls. The only thing might be a taller tank, but then you might drag it some day. I would not want to be around if you tear a hole in the black tank.
pyho
Earl will know if a larger tank can be had.
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I figured as much. We used to own a sailboat and had the same limitations. I certainly wouldn't want anything to sit any lower than the normal-sized tanks. We're considering a 3100 because of the larger gray tank, actually, even though it's just the two of us (plus one small dog).
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I full time in a 21' PC2100 with no slide. My PC has better ground clearance than any Class A or B I've ever seen, and that was important to me. I changed out my toilet for a composting one and that made a huge difference in water use/dump intervals.
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While crawling under our 2552 I did notice quite a bit of space on the passengers side just to the right of the electric step. Might be too far from the water plumbing to be of use though....
- Mike