Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ron Dittmer on October 05, 2023, 11:51:02 am
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For you who may be curious as to the consequences of leaving your PC sit for 2 years idle.
During the past 2 years, our road trips did not involve our PC. So our PC sat in our garage hybernating all that time. Last week, we went on a 700 mile round-trip journey, the first time anything operated in 2 years.
2 years ago, I disconnected all batteries and charged them up roughly 3 to 4 times a year at a low 4 amp setting. The batteries performed perfectly with no degradation that I could notice.
The gasoline in the gas tank was filled to the top 2 years ago to minimize air in the fuel tank. The fuel was 87 octane with 10% ethanol. I did NOT add any products like Stabil.
The main Ford V10 engine started right up and ran perfectly smooth throughout our 700 mile journey with no noticable degradation in performance or behavior. We drove until we burned through the tank of fuel to 1/8 of a tank to get rid of as much old fuel before refueling. Once back home, we had burned almost through an additional 1/2 tank, so I figure we have an estimated 6 gallons of 2 year old gasoline dilluted in 50 gallons of fresh gasoline.
ABOUT THE GENERATOR
Sitting idle for 2 years did not fair well for it. It starts hard and runs poorly such that we could not use it during the trip. Now that we are back at home, I am trying to bring it back to good health. I will report on my progress.
ABOUT THE WASTE SYSTEM
Our second macerator is now 8 years old. It works but spins slower than it should. To wake it up, I used my electric drill with a flat blade screw driver tip and spun the motor to get it going. This needed repeating with every use. I am replacing it.
Our black tank waste valve is gummed up. It is not fully closing. I disconnected the electro-mechanical feature and worked it by hand to learn that I have to tap it closed. Working it open/close multiple times was futile. I could remove and clean the valve, but am going to replace it instead.
Everything else is in perfect working order. The fridge, furnace, a/c, plumbing, etc. all is well. Being stored in our garage with rodent traps and poison, and routine insect control, nothing has been compromised by them.
I do NOT recommend storing your PC for 2 years without exercising it. I am only reporting on what you may experience if you do.
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The ammount of ethanol in our gasoline has increased since 2021 too 💩
Maintaining a working generator is crucial. Unscrew and remove the fuel shutoff solenoid & main jet assembly and float bowl. Disconnect the solenoid wires and try loosening it with a pass-through socket instead of removing the entire carburetor. Spray the solenoid & main jet assembly, and the float valve needle & seat with lots of Gumout. Also remove the altitude adjustment knob and mixture screw to clean that jet, but count the number of turns in and out from the seat before removing it. There’s one more small jet located behind a tamper proof plug that you will need to drill and remove to access.
If you have to remove the carburetor use a little gasket cement on the new gaskets so they don’t fall out while aligning the intake manifold bolts.
You could also try your luck with an inexpensive Chinese knock-off carburetor, or pay $400 for a genuine Onan part if it’s not back ordered.
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Glad to hear you're back on the road Ron!
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Concerning my generator.....
Cal, I GREATLY appreciate the instruction, but I am trying some easy remedies first.
Fuel is getting into the carburetor via the fuel pump because the carburetor bowl gets lots of fresh gas in it.
1st action, I sprayed Seafoam product down the throat of the carburetor not running, then while running. This yielded no improvement.
2nd action, I drained the carb bowl via the drain screw, then spray-filled the carb bowl from the bottom up with Seafoam until it flowed out the air intake. A 15 minute soak yielded no improvement. I am currently soaking it a second time, this time overnight, again with Seafoam.
BTW: I can get the generator to run smooth by pulse-spraying Seafom into the carb. It yields a lot of white smoke as expected yet it runs perfectly, so I assume the fuel passages within the carb is where the problem is.....fuel is not getting to the right places for combustion. I hope an overnight internal soaking of Seafoam will make it well. If not, I will follow Cal's tips.
Jim, Thanks for the warm welcome.
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Also remove the idle adjustment screw (not the mechanical throttle stop screw) after counting the number of turns in/out from the factory setting and spray that jet. If you have a good ear for smooth idle it’s not hard to fine tune, and you can check 60hz at any AC outlet with a Fluke or decent cheap VOM like Xtech.
Welcome back to the ghost town (nod)
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Good to hear from you recently, Ron.
Hope your carburetor soaks pay dividends, but as Cal says I think you'll need to pull the carb bowl to solve your issue. I suspect you'll find your problem in the horizontal main jet at the bottom of the bowl--the one with the altitude adjustment knob on it. Once you disconnect the shut off solenoid wires and unscrew the solenoid from the bottom, the bowl will come off--though it's a little tricky. I've never found the solenoid itself gummed up, but make sure it works freely. Pry off the altitude adjustment knob--I've left mine off to give a greater range of adjustment for the main jet needle--and remove the needle (count the turns first as Cal says)--clean that needle, orifice and bowl bottom thoroughly. That has always solved all of my issues.
As Cal also says, the imported replacement carburetors are cheap--I bought one to carry as a spare, but don't intend to attempt to use it unless I have to.
Mike
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Soak the carburetor in acetone. It's the jet (suction tube) that's gumed up. Just filling the bowl won't do much. Remove any gaskets first, before you soak it.
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Thanks for sharing the info, Ron. I wonder if STA-BIL would have kept the generator carb from gumming up ? We store ours at an indoor storage place for the 6 winter months with
STA-BIL in the the system. Have never started it during that storage time and never have had a problem. Otherwise it's started at least monthly during the summer.
Jim
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What caused my troubles is making the mistake of NOT draining the carb prior to that first winter in October 2021. This is my first generator issue, learning all I can from you great people.
Here is a brief description of what I tried so far.
After conventional SeaFoam spraying techiques yielded no improvement....
With air filter still removed.
I opened the carb bowl drain and drained all gasoline.
I grabbed an appropriate sized rubber boot (I HAVE AN ASSSORTMENT THAT RESEMBLES THESE) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71z1cTccurL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg), that fit snugly over that drain, but one with extra length to hang below the metal. I then pierced a hole with a pick in the side of the extra area and inserted my SeaFoam tube. I then filled up the carb bowl until Feafoam was overflowing out the intake where the air filter is mounted.
I waited 15 minutes, then ran the engine. No improvement.
I repeated the process, this time waiting overnight. Some improvement, but not enough.
I repeated the process again, waiting overnight a second time. I will find out today if attempt #2 makes a difference.
Doing some searching on the internet, I found THIS SEAFOAM VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JEiGbR01A). If my effort thus far proves to be a bust, I will try this SeaFoam recommended process. If that does not work, I will start to take the carb apart per everyone's input here. I want to give all "less evasive" options a try before tampering with the carb itself.
Stabil? Like you jimmer, I wonder.
Guys, if all my less evasive attempts are ineffective, I will be reading through your suggestions very carefully. I really appreciate all your input.
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I have my own set of experiences to add to the growing list of trials and tribulations expressed by the league of ONAN Generator owners driving around in their Phoenix Cruisers. With the subject seeming to be creating more contributions to the FORUM than any other single topic, I have read one story after another about the idiosyncrasies associated with operating the unit.
Accordingly, I try to be especially conscious of the procedures for entering the generator into Storage Mode. I live a couple of thousand miles from where the RV is being stored and reading about the ill effects, blamed on improper technique, has heightened my vulnerability awareness.
After several successful removals from periodic hibernation, in the past, this Fall I learned how frustrating a non-starting generator can be. I now think the failure to start is inevitable.
I pay extra and purchase the last two tanks full prior to storage as REGULAR gasoline. Eliminating most of the Gasohol from the fuel supply for the last run of the generator. I add stabilizer to the fuel. I run the generator with the blend and use a block valve installed in the fuel line to void everything from the carburetor on final shutdown.
Following the suggested methods, I was finally able to get the "thing" started. Somewhere in the process, I lost signal to the HOBBS Meter display on the Remote Control. No numbers display. The screen remains blank. I can't find any reference to that problem. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Aloha... this reply is for "Taildragger."
My runtime meter for the generator failed a few years ago. No numbers showing.
I found a direct (electromechanical) replacement on Amazon, "Honeywell Hobbs Boat Hour Meter 169635."
Cost $13 and replacement time was like 15 minutes.
Rick John
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I got so distracted with THIS (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72177720306916023) woodworking project. I can't believe it has been 11 days since filling the carb bowl with Sea Foam.
Anyway.
I noticed some improvement but was not successful in getting the generator running properly. I will try THIS NEXT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JEiGbR01A).
I'd like to add a fuel cut-off switch. Most for sale are made of plastic, including what is sold in retail stores. I bought THIS QUARTER TURN MADE OF METAL (https://www.ebay.com/itm/294701319556) thinking it would be ideal to install at the carb behind the Onan cover. Any thoughts or experiences are always welcome.
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Ron,
I added a similar cut off valve a few years ago. Before I put my 2551 in storage, I shut the valve off and run the Onan until it uses up the gas in the carburetor and leave it shut during storage. When I come out of storage, I just open the valve, prime the carb (about 20 secs) and I am good to go.
Works well for me.
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Ron,
I added a similar cut off valve a few years ago. Before I put my 2551 in storage, I shut the valve off and run the Onan until it uses up the gas in the carburetor and leave it shut during storage. When I come out of storage, I just open the valve, prime the carb (about 20 secs) and I am good to go.
Works well for me.
Hi Don. Did you mount the fuel cut-off right there next to the carburetor? Or did you mount it below, before the fuel filter and pump? It is naturally safer to mount it below in case of a fuel leak, but is more susceptible to corrosion and surely an inconvenient location.
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Hi Don. Did you mount the fuel cut-off right there next to the carburetor? Or did you mount it below, before the fuel filter and pump? It is naturally safer to mount it below in case of a fuel leak, but is more susceptible to corrosion and surely an inconvenient location.
Ron--you may remember that Phoenix began installing the generator fuel cut-off valves as standard procedure in early 2019. When I picked up my 2552 in February of 2019 at the factory, one of the line folks showed me the valve and told me they had just got permission to began installing them in all units. They are one of the conventional plastic units, but I've never had a problem with mine.
Anyway, Phoenix installed it near the carburetor, about 3 inches from the inlet, just clamped into the fuel line.
I believe the fuel shut-off valve is pretty effective in the Onan application. They are less effective in some applications because the fuel pick up point in the carburetor fuel bowl is well above the bottom of the bowl. Even after you close the valve and "run the carburetor dry" there is considerable fuel left in the bottom of the bowl to continue to deteriorate. In the Onan, however, the fuel pick-up for the main jet is pretty much in the very bottom of the bowl. That can create more issues with sediment because anything in the bottom of the bowl gets pulled into the main jet, but it DOES mean that pretty much all fuel gets sucked in and burned when you run the carb dry.
Mike
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Ron,
I added a similar cut off valve a few years ago. Before I put my 2551 in storage, I shut the valve off and run the Onan until it uses up the gas in the carburetor and leave it shut during storage. When I come out of storage, I just open the valve, prime the carb (about 20 secs) and I am good to go.
Works well for me.
Hi Don. Did you mount the fuel cut-off right there next to the carburetor? Or did you mount it below, before the fuel filter and pump? It is naturally safer to mount it below in case of a fuel leak, but is more susceptible to corrosion and surely an inconvenient location.
Ron,
I put it in the rubber fuel line just below the carb.
Motion Pro 12-0035 1/4" Inline Fuel Valve
https://a.co/d/gPLkBRz
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Just got back from a 2 night excursion in our PC, catching up on forums.
Thanks guys for confirming that it is safe to add a fuel cut-off at the carb.
I hope to get back to doctoring our generator during the next week or two. Winter is approaching. It would be nice to put the rig away in good working order, and with an empty carb this time. In preparation for this fall color get-away at Starved Rock SP, I replaced a finicky black tank waste valve and a weak macerator. I seem to be going through macerators every 8 years. This new one is my 3rd.
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Just curious, Ron, which macerator did you go with ? I'm beginning to see similar behavour with mine.
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Just curious, Ron, which macerator did you go with ? I'm beginning to see similar behavour with mine.
I bought THIS ONE (https://www.ebay.com/itm/145327299074) on eBay for $52 with free shipping which arrived in very good time. It fit without modification except for the inlet which I swapped, and of coarse the wiring connections.
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Just a quick closure on this.
About my generator. I simply ran out of time to address its poor operation, so as I had done a few times last month, I again drained the carb, then filled it's bowl with Seafoam. Maybe during winter storage, the extended soaking will do some good. This matter will have to wait until spring.
I replaced my 2nd macerator with a 3rd one in-time for one last get-away, and all is well. I am going through macerators every 8 years.
I replaced my black waste tank valve with a new one. It turned out that my original valve was fine. The upstream seal for it had become slightly deformed, creating excessive resistance during the last 1/4" of travel. All I needed was one new seal, but it is all new now, so I got some spare parts.
My 5-Star Tune was loaded this season. I appreciate the change to the transmission behaviors during acceleration, but because I have not yet gone on a trip towing our Jeep Liberty, a final evaluation will have to wait. I hope things improve with regards to being on cruise control and climbing free-way over-passes. The crazy 2 to 3 gear down-shifting always bothered me. I am hoping the 5-Star tune will address that. Fuel economy is surely not compromised with the 5-Star Tune. I wonder if it actually improved, but since I rarely drive our PC without towing the Jeep, I can't say for sure. Another factor is that we are now being very disciplined cruising in the 63mph to 64mph speed (5mph slower) so that is another influence. Not towing, we seem to be averaging between 11.5 and 12.5mpg on Illinois/Wisconsin flat roads via the ScanGauge-II. One cross country 4 week trip towing the Jeep with many fuel purchases over ~5000 miles, will provide a realistic number to post.
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Good info there Ron. I sent for and received the macerator you suggested, and will install next spring. Our's has a gray tank valve issue and will first check the gasket for deformities
before replacing the whole valve.
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Good info there Ron. I sent for and received the macerator you suggested, and will install next spring. Our's has a gray tank valve issue and will first check the gasket for deformities
before replacing the whole valve.
2o2
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I had the same issue after a slightly longer than normal winter. Removing carb bowl and cleaning our ethanol jelly solved the issue. Now I drain the carb when winterizing. I think I will also install a fuel shut-off so I can start the motor occasionally without filling the carb back up again.
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I had the same issue after a slightly longer than normal winter. Removing carb bowl and cleaning out ethanol jelly solved the issue.
Thanks GregB,
In the spring, I will try that first.
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I'm pretty sick of my Onan generator. It hasn't really worked in five years. I've done all the fixes I can find, watched all the YouTube videos, readjusted the oil level to a more perfect level, cleaned the carburetor, changed out the carburetor, soaked in seafoam and more. I've worked on it. A neighbor who specializes in working on generators has worked on it. I usually have to drop it for a while after messing with it and then forget where I was when I start back again. Sometimes it runs. It's just rough. The best it's sounded was when I got the oil pressure right. Why does one practically have to be a full time mechanic to keep one of these things going? Even when it runs, it's not smooth and it's loud.
Isn't there a better option for these MHs? After all these years? I've been struggling with the same Onan generator model and its problems for the last nearly 20 years and two different PCs. Although I have to admit this last one has been far worse. And I haven't really messed with it in over two years. I just want a new generator that works. Any suggestions?
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Cd. What’s yours doing? Mine would run rough, run for anywhere from 20 mins to five hours and die. Constantly fouling the plugs. I blamed it on my carb too. Changed it etc. Then I hooked up a gravity feed right to the carb with the supply sitting a couple feet above the gen. Ran it for hours. Ran smooth, no more fouling the plugs .
I installed a new fuel pump (located it outside of the compartment). It’s been perfect ever since.
I also installed a power cut off switch to the fuel pump so I can run it dry after use. I know many place a fuel cut off on the fuel line itself. I did not choose that route due to known failures in those plastic cut off valves, either leaking by or leaking externally.
No idea if this is your issue or not but for a couple of bucks in fuel line and some gas to gravity feed you can find out. I placed a bolt in the fuel line going to the gen to stop any fuel pumping when running the test.
Also, I installed an aftermarket fuel pump for about $30 and bought a second for back up. Having mounted it just outside the case where the fuel line goes in allows me to change it out in about 10 minutes or less should it ever fail.