Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: flei on November 03, 2022, 03:07:34 pm
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We just returned from a 3 month, 17,000 trip around a lot of North America, and I want to report that our stock, "almost antique", PC (bought used in 2020with 62K miles. now with 87K miles total), was completely reliable the entire trip. This trip included some of the roughest and toughest and steepest dirt and paved roads in Yukon, Alaska, BC, and the Sountwestern US (inc. the Alaska Hwy, Cassiar Hwy, Denali Hwy, Top of the World Hwy, Bella Coola "The Hill", Butler Wash, San Rafael Swell, Chaco Canyon, various BLM and Forest Service dirt roads, I80 (lol!), etc. etc.). I'd wager we drove it on quite a few roads that would be deemed by many to be unfit for motorhomes. We got a lot of "what the heck are YOU doing here?!" looks from other RV'ers in their truck campers or conversion vans. The only failures were the microwave/convection oven (Samsung fail, not PC), two plastic cabinet latches, and I tore off the macerator pump on the Denali Hwy (frankly glad to be rid of it as we never used it anyway so it was just dead weight). We had no problems "boondocking" for up to 6 days with our fresh and waste water storage and 12v system (maybe could have gone even more days?). The trip was incredible, and we saw the most beautiful places and met many great people. Congratulations to the Phoenix Cruiser folks who designed and built our rig. :)(: We plan to do whatever we need to do to keep it on the road for many years to come.
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What a great trip! I saw a guy bust a bunch of cabinets loose on a nice pull behind trailer on that Chaco Canyon road. You had great lifetime experiences. Glad you PC did it's task.
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(cheer)
Hi flei,
We have the same model and model year as you. Though we have not done such a challenging trip, I have a similar assessment.
An unrelated note. Look under the rear of your PC around your rear axle. You won't have a rear stabilizer bar unless a previous owner installed one, If you lack one, you will be surprised with the improvement in handling after installing a heavy duty aftermarket stabilizer bar.
Also, your front stabilizer bar end link/grommets will likely benefit from a 90 degree rotation. Better yet would be to replace the bar with a heavy duty version which does not utilize those grommets.
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(cheer)
Hi flei,
We have the same model and model year as you. Though we have not done such a challenging trip, I have a similar assessment.
An unrelated note. Look under the rear of your PC around your rear axle. You won't have a rear stabilizer bar unless a previous owner installed one, If you lack one, you will be surprised with the improvement in handling after installing a heavy duty aftermarket stabilizer bar.
Also, your front stabilizer bar end link/grommets will likely benefit from a 90 degree rotation. Better yet would be to replace the bar with a heavy duty version which does not utilize those grommets.
Hello Ron- I was aware we had the same year and model. I have closley followed all of your mods/improvments over the years and you have been very helpful. tymote
Our PC does not have a rear sway bar and has the stock front bar. Next Spring I do plan to replace the very worn out shocks (with the Bilsteins you recommended), get the brakes done and add a better front and rear sway bar. Our PC then ought to be good for at least another 85,000 miles. . heartshower
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Hello Ron- I was aware we had the same year and model. I have closley followed all of your mods/improvments over the years and you have been very helpful.
Our PC does not have a rear sway bar and has the stock front bar. Next Spring I do plan to replace the very worn out shocks (with the Bilsteins you recommended), get the brakes done and add a better front and rear sway bar. Our PC then ought to be good for at least another 85,000 miles.
2o2 Doing as you plan will give you the most improvement for the buck.
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What a fantastic adventure. Sounds like you really put your PC though one heck of a challenge. I have a 2008 2350 and it's a beast too. We pride ourselves on boon docking and find ourselves in some pretty sketchy places but with a little common sense the 'Minimoto' comes though. The weakness lies in the macerator, have had to repair it 3 times. Yes, it's on me but it hangs so low and is unprotected for the most part. I plan on removing the entire waste line this winter, rebuilding the valves and securing the macerator with better protection. I too follow Ron's suggestions and tweaks (thanks Ron!).
Thank you for sharing your travels.
Rex
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That sounds like a great adventure. How did you cope with leveling? I can imagine low hanging automatic jacks might be too much of a hazard on the worst roads.
We enjoy dry camping at California’s great state parks , but quicky learned that many campgrounds and specific campsites are too far off level. I have a whole pile of destroyed leveling blocks from trying roflol
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That sounds like a great adventure. How did you cope with leveling? I can imagine low hanging automatic jacks might be too much of a hazard on the worst roads.
We enjoy dry camping at California’s great state parks , but quicky learned that many campgrounds and specific campsites are too far off level. I have a whole pile of destroyed leveling blocks from trying roflol
Often we could search out a fairly level spot most everywhere. There is a lot of open land to camp on in Alaska, Yukon, BC, Montana, etc. and in the Southwest, so finding a fairly level spot wasn't often very hard. Then just used cheap leveling blocks.(good for up to 6" off level). And at times just tolerated being 1-3" off.
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I too follow Ron's suggestions and tweaks (thanks Ron!)
You are very welcome! It is rewarding to know that my documentation of things done is useful to others.
For PC members who don't already know, I linked my Tips & Tricks inside one post. I initially did that for myself to quickly share a tip in other people's posts. Here is the link.
https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3022.0 (https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3022.0)
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Our PC does not have levelers. I adheared bubble levelers by the driver (also by the rear tires and in back) which has often worked well, especially when the parking area is uneven. I just move the PC in and out of dips and such, watching the bubble levels to get our PC acceptabley level.
Admittedly, there have been times I wish I had those fancy levelers, especially when I have to bring out the Lynx Levelers while it is raining.
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What a fantastic adventure. Sounds like you really put your PC though one heck of a challenge. I have a 2008 2350 and it's a beast too. We pride ourselves on boon docking and find ourselves in some pretty sketchy places but with a little common sense the 'Minimoto' comes though. The weakness lies in the macerator, have had to repair it 3 times. Yes, it's on me but it hangs so low and is unprotected for the most part. I plan on removing the entire waste line this winter, rebuilding the valves and securing the macerator with better protection. I too follow Ron's suggestions and tweaks (thanks Ron!).
Thank you for sharing your travels.
Rex
I have replaced the Macerator. A hairline crack was causing the housing to weep and the prospect of it dripping hastened my replacing the entire mechanism. With no evidence of abrasion, or impact, I think the crack more likely developed from inadequate Winterization Procedures.
With the considerable overhang of the Phoenix Cruiser rear compartment, dragging the undercarriage is an issue. Before adding coasters to the rear frame, at the trailer hitch attach points, there were numerous occasions when the tailpipe would drag.
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"What a fantastic adventure. Sounds like you really put your PC though one heck of a challenge. I have a 2008 2350 and it's a beast too. We pride ourselves on boon docking and find ourselves in some pretty sketchy places but with a little common sense the 'Minimoto' comes though. The weakness lies in the macerator, have had to repair it 3 times. Yes, it's on me but it hangs so low and is unprotected for the most part. I plan on removing the entire waste line this winter, rebuilding the valves and securing the macerator with better protection. I too follow Ron's suggestions and tweaks (thanks Ron!).
Thank you for sharing your travels.
Rex"
"I have replaced the Macerator. A hairline crack was causing the housing to weep and the prospect of it dripping hastened my replacing the entire mechanism. With no evidence of abrasion, or impact, I think the crack more likely developed from inadequate Winterization Procedures.
With the considerable overhang of the Phoenix Cruiser rear compartment, dragging the undercarriage is an issue. Before adding coasters to the rear frame, at the trailer hitch attach points, there were numerous occasions when the tailpipe would drag."
I took care of all my macerator issues on the Denali Highway. After a few miles of driving on the VERY rough road, when we stopped to camp I noticed that it was no longer there! As we never once had used it and really do not see any need for it, I said good riddance!
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Hello Ron- I was aware we had the same year and model. I have closley followed all of your mods/improvments over the years and you have been very helpful.
2o2 Doing as you plan will give you the most improvement for the buck.
I learned that changing the suspension as suggested by Ron, and verified by other members, makes a very beneficial improvement. My PC Cruiser 2100 changed from difficult to control in crosswinds, inclined to migrate to the outside on curves, swaying in the traffic lane when overtaken by fast moving semi traffic and inclined to wander to very responsive. Make the changes and see for yourself
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The Denali Highway! Considering it's reputation for virtually destroying rental vehicles, most Alaska RV Agencies absolutely prohibit their customers driving the 135 miles of gravel obstacles. Congratulations on having a vehicle that was robust enough to have survived.
I am sure many here are wondering: considering the combination of rough roads and accumulated mileage, what maintenance issues have been generated? Anything break? From reading those contributing to the Forum, I get the impression there isn't a Phoenix Cruiser in existence with 100,000 miles registered.
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The Denali Highway! Considering it's reputation for virtually destroying rental vehicles, most Alaska RV Agencies absolutely prohibit their customers driving the 135 miles of gravel obstacles. Congratulations on having a vehicle that was robust enough to have survived.
I am sure many here are wondering: considering the combination of rough roads and accumulated mileage, what maintenance issues have been generated? Anything break? From reading those contributing to the Forum, I get the impression there isn't a Phoenix Cruiser in existence with 100,000 miles registered.
Other than the issues in my initial post on this thread, we have had to do nothing other than routine maintainence on our PC (which had 63k miles on it at the time we bought it in March 2020). And the Denali Hwy was not by any means the roughest road we traveled. We did some "jeep trails" in Utah, Colorado and New Mexico, as well as the Top of The World Hwy and the McCarthy Rd in Alaska, Hwy 20 to Bella Coola, the Alaska Hwy (which has enormous frost heaves!), the Cassiar Hwy, and many other small rough roads/trails in Yukon and BC, and driven it through fields to find campsites etc etc, Frankly, the rig gets more abuse from the paved roads here in Mass. than it did from any of those supposedly "rough roads"! We obviously don't drive fast and pay attention to large holes, rocks, etc., when we are "off-roading", but IMO the PC is put together very well and the E350 chassis is notably strong and reliable. We DEFINITELY plan to take this rig to over 100K miles in the next couple of years!
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Very interesting and beneficial written account of your experience and observations. I appreciate the contributions from those who are willing to share practical responses to real world occurrences.
My wife and I are starting on our second Phoenix Cruiser. We learned from the experiences of the first vehicle. Everything that occurred from maintenance to suggested options and upgrades were already documented by other members of the Forum with a wealth of shared knowledge. Once our concerns were explained as commonly existing under particular sets of conditions, our perspective changed. Confidence in the Quality Control associated with Phoenix Cruiser construction and design features of the vehicle architecture has us content believing that we can realistically expect to pass the 100,000-mile point with this replacement vehicle.
While we store the vehicle in the Lower-48 and expect to only travel well-maintained roads there, I am concerned about the seemingly not rare incidents of the Cabin cracking above the front seats. The area where the cutaway cab introduces uncompensated stress is the culprit. Possibly attributable to rough driving conditions, I am concerned about fatigue being cumulative and a threat to continued use in a high mileage scenario.
When driving our earlier PC 2100, I was cognizant of the sounds emanating from the area above the Cab. Unmistakable creaks and groans (technical terms) betrayed the strain imposed by the overhead mounting of the fiberglass shell. I opened the enclosure behind the TV. A vacant space. Probably acting as an echo chamber to amplify the sound. I reinforced the span, mounted a reinforced framework to house a small security safe, and recovered the span with matching paneling. Looks nice! Adds a practical security feature. Did absolutely nothing to quiet the audible protests emanating from the area.
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Check THIS out!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=90UcAwstwik
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Check THIS out!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=90UcAwstwik
Very cool! Very very very expensive!!
IMO,this off-raod capable larger RV is an awesome concept, but based on our experience a conversion like this is not necessary unless you are REALLY REALLY going to often take the rig into serious off-road terrain (where personally I'd rather just drive a Jeep (or some other 4x4 toad) or a dedicated overlander rig). I find it a bit hard to imagine where one might find many such areas in the Americas that also could accomdate the length.width and height of the PC. Despite our stock rig (with bad shocks), I found few places I could not take it with proper care and driving skill. I would always scout ahead such sections (via conversations with travelers, the internet, google eart, etc.). In softer stuff we'd air-down a bit and with the dual rear wheels and low gearing it can go thru and over just about anything if you keep momentum. In my prior posts on this thread I forgot to mention the road into Chaco Canyon which was definitely the worst 20 mile stretch of road we traveled, with much washboard surface and several difficult gully crossings from the recent monsoons that went thru there; prior off-road driving experience is useful in such conditions . The main issue with the PC is clearance due to the very long rear overhang, the generator exhaust (which I was certain I would bust off on numerous occassions but actually never even hit) and the macerator (which the Denali Hwy. kindly removed to solve that problem).
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There is an extablished axiom about 4-Wheel Drive that is regarded as being established, accepted, and self-evidently true: "all it does is allow to get stuck in more inaccessible places"..
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FLEI wrote:
"I forgot to mention the road into Chaco Canyon which was definitely the worst 20 mile stretch of road we traveled, with much washboard surface and several difficult gully crossings from the recent monsoons that went thru there; prior off-road driving experience is useful in such conditions . "
I also think that twenty miles is the worst road I have ever driven with a rv. Actually, I don't recommend it to anyone. I am also sure the NPS wants it to stay that way to protect Chaco. Otherwise, you would have too many people tramping down this fragile relic masterpiece. If we go back there we will leave the PC at a campground in the area, take our Jeep to go to Chaco and sleep in the Jeep. That road is just too much to expect a motorhome to endure again. Doable, yes but at best a really miserable, trip and plan on taking more than an hour for the drive.
Paul
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There is an extablished axiom about 4-Wheel Drive that is regarded as being established, accepted, and self-evidently true: "all it does is allow to get stuck in more inaccessible places"..
AMEN. :)(:
@Flei - I have a 2006 2350, and drive it regularly as a 'video shoot support vehicle' towing a box trailer.
Indeed adding a bunch of suspension improvements will improve the ride and handling. I found addressing the root cause of the handling was the key:
The front springs are too dang strong for the vehicle. The factory would have to re-certify the entire setup to change them from factory, and that would be WAY too much $$$$.
So to make it so the alignment can even be put to spec, special camber bushings are required. These ARE permitted to be added.
To address the root cause, I had the front springs changed out to a set that were made 2" lower, and 10% softer. WOW. What a difference. RonD did similar with some 'off the shelf' springs.
The first good sign was that the special camber bushings had to be swapped out for the stock. This means that we are closer to what the engineers intended. (cheer)
What a difference. Without upgrading the front sway bar, adding a rear sway bar, and/or adding expensive shocks, it rides totally different. SO nice.
I can be loaded, with trailer, fighting a seabreeze as I head down the coastal highways and steer simply with one hand. Trucks passing in either direction cause no distress.
With the front end in proper geometry, it works like it should without a bunch of band aids.
So maybe consider springs first, then additional parts added after as needed. You might be pleasantly surprised.
I modified my macerator to have the 'bayonet' mounting and QD's on the wiring so it isnt on there all the time... as we use the 'stinky slinky' 99% of the time. BUT.. having said that, the macerator has been the 'Ace in the Hole' a few times when leaving festivals at odd hours, with tanks full. Macerator + Port-O-Lets = empty tanks going home. 2o2 So it gets carried along for 'those' times.
RE: cab creaks and separation... I went through and rebuilt mine, and it is TIGHT. Went from sounding like an old ship at sea to 'squeak free'. Little out of the scope of most owners, but very rewarding.
Good to read about your 2350. I could not be happier with ours. Full body paint is in the works... cant wait!!