Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: RhodeIslandTraveler on December 20, 2021, 11:18:30 am
-
Ahoy, all -
Owner of 2019 Model 2350 here.
Background: 2nd owner - - purchased unit from Campers Inn where they were unable to fix anything in a timely or proper way, lied about the condition of the batteries, etc., so I just took the MH home to figure it out at home. (Regarding Campers Inn, my experience over several months was the worst customer service experience imaginable. I wouldn't buy a wheelbarrow from them.)
Has anyone had the experience of the "remote" control for the Xantrex Pro 1800 inverter not working, and finding that it's something to do with the cable between the inverter itself and the remote which is installed in the wall behind the drivers seat?
1 - After opening up examining the remote installation in the wall, I find that the cable is a 6 wire cable (RJ45?), while the remote has a 4 wire connection (RJ11).
2 - The Owners Guide says that the remote should be installed using R11 extension cord, and yet what is in my wall is NOT an RJ11 extension cord.
3 - Looking at the existing extension cord wires closely, I see that some of them are blackened, which seems like there must have been short of some sort.
4 - The connector between the weird extension cord and the remote has burned marks inside it, so clearly something happened.
5 - When I go under the bed to the inverter, and plug the "remote" directly into the inverter, it seems to function normally (hooray!).
So... after several weeks of trying to find a connector that would work, and trying to find a non-burned part of the wire and install a new plug on the end of it, I've decided to go another route.
I am going to install a plain old RJ11 extension cord, plugging it into the inverter and then thread it through the galley cabinets to a new location, and then install the remote in the galley rather than trying to thread an extension cord across the MH to the control panel.
My question for someone on this forum is, have I missed something obvious?
Is there any possible reason why the extension cord in the wall is NOT an RJ11 cord as specified in the Owners Guide?
To it all even more interesting, the extension cord in the wall doesn't match the extension cord currently plugged into the inverter. I've tried to traced the cord starting from the inverter, but it is buried in the overall bundled wires, and disappears.
I am beyond frustrated. Any insight will be welcomed!
Thanks in advance.
-
I changed mine to a full sinewave instead of modified. Mine was wired that way.
-
Thanks, Engineer - - while it’s puzzling as to why they might do it that way, at least now I know my PC isn’t an anomaly.
UPDATE: My approached worked - - the plain RJ11 extension cord connected between the remote panel and the inverter works. Now I am able to turn the inverter on for the first time since buying my PC in September. Now to cut a hole somewhere in the galley to mount the remote panel.
-
Old topic. A new problem for me. I just acquired a PC2350 and am confounded by an unresponsive Xantrac 1800. I opened the remote control wall mounting compartment and viewed the telephone cable connection. No response on the gauges when selecting on/off options.
According to the experience reported here, the cable connection can be bypassed and the Remote Control returned to the main unit and tested to confirm operation. Seems simple enough.
I need a hint. The unit is installed below the refrigerator and permanently placed with multiple electrical connections. The front access panels open to fuses. Nothing shows the telephone wire connection
-
That sounds like the converter. I'm not familiar where they install the inverter on that model but guess it's somewhere near the batteries. Also note that inverter has failed me twice. They are not very reliable, so it could have just gone bad. I replaced with the same model because that was the simplest thing to do.
-
I just changed my Xantrex 1800 pro to the true sine wave Xantrex 2000. In our 2910D the inverter is located under the refrigerator area. My understanding in other models the inverter is located under one of the beds? It does sound like you are talking about the converter. The inverter has just a few connections. The hot coming from the cut off switch from the battery, the negative going to the batteries, one romex cable from the electrical panel to the inverter, one romex back into the panel, and the "phone wire" going to the display panel.
-
Thanks for the response. I realize now there is more to the system than I was aware of. I need to look for the other components. Half of the installation must be in a separate location.
After several years with an earlier Phoenix Cruiser, equipped with a Tripp Lite System that resides in a single location, I never suspected an installation would be configured with modules residing in non-contiguous locations. The Xantrex footprint is evidently too big for mounting in a single cabinet
-
If you replace an inverter consider purchasing a much higher quality Victron unit.they come with a 5 year warranty.
-
I am interested in doing a DIY replacement and making the procedure as simple as possible. Using plug compatible equipment lessens the risk of encountering installation problems. Hopefully, that will eliminate problems with matching wiring placement and fitting the replacement case in the limited space available. Another issue: the Remote Control Panel is essential.
I'll have tried locating a direct replacement for the existing device. Only to find out there is limited availability and back orders are widespread. Victron as an alternative is something worth considering. Others report having replaced their Xantrax multiple times. Nothing including a testimony on reliability issues.
About to undertake the process, I need confirmation that my approach to the wiring harness is made by opening the bottom of the Tall Clothes Closet. It appears the cabinet floor is removable.
-
A few notes. I have learned requests to Victron Customer Support are treated as "sales opportunities" and fed to the franchised dealer network. Contact with a factory recomended, Victron Authorized, outlet offers no information other than an abrupt announcement consulting fees are expected.
Questions about something as straight forward as matching a Victron product to am existing installation has to be "researched" and there is an hourly rate. I am not interested. Seems a little too opportunistic.
I have bounced around the internet and learned Victron inverers do not measure in watts and hence a 2000VA rated Multiplus puts out 1600w continuously. As a match to the Xantrex 2000: it would be less power. A Multiplus II 3000 is 2400w continuous and is for 30 / 50 amp rigs as it has Line1, Neutral and Ground with an additional leg for Line 2 and 50 amp systems. I am not interested in purchasing a box offering features I don't need or can't use. Nor do I want something where the Remote Control is not included.
Seems as though I would be stuck using a Multiplus II 3000 which will cover the continuous wattage of the previous Xantrex. But with a larger form factor, much bigger price tag, features I can;t use. And no help from the manufacturer.
Xantrex looks better, as I explore the alternatives
-
I had Phoenix install a Samlex pure sine wave 2,000 watt inverter when the unit was being built in 2016. They also installed a separate transfer switch. Knock on wood I have not had any problems with this arrangement.
-
Ahoy, Taildragger!
I feel your pain… the inverter is located under the bed in the 2350.
Lift up mattress, unscrew fasteners holding down plywood under mattress, and you’ll find the inverter is located behind the electrical panel.
Mine has functioned perfectly since I found a replacement for the extension wire. Of course, I’ve got this dumb setup where the remote is now under the sink galley sink, but at least the inverter is working correctly now that it can be controlled by the “remote”.
Good luck to you. I hope it’s only the extension wire malfunctioning for you, as it was in my case,
-
Evidently, Phoenix has used varied locations for placing the electrical components. In my rig, I found the Inverter under the wall cabinet and storage area that are adjacent to the refrigerator. The location places the Inverter / Converter / Electrical Panel in contiguous spaces.
When first confirming the existing inverter was defective, using various contortions, I wriggled access to the front panel of the Xantrex Inverter. Physically inserting the Remote Control device in the accommodating front panel receptacle, I confirmed the combination doesn’t work. I am content thinking it is failed. Seemingly not uncommon, others report they have experienced abbreviated usage from theirs.
Although I haven’t had the opportunity to replace the old unit, I am traveling early next month to return to the project and complete the exchange before continuing on a cross country vacation. The inverter location presents a challenge requiring the cabinetry be disassembled for unobstructed access.
I have considered the risks of ordering a rival product. Wiggle room and compartment space limitations reduce my range of selection array. In the interest of making the DIY project simple, I am planning to order a Xantrex 807-2000 Freedom XI Inverter. Footprint is essentially the same size.
-
The inverter mounting location considerations include more than for providing convenient access. In fact, that any eventual access be easy might rate as least important. Inverter repair, or replacement, is probably the least of concerns for the factory installers when building new Phoenix Cruisers. Certainly, locating the inverter in the unused space under the refrigerator and closet cabinetry minimizes cable length for the DC connections.
(http://)
Although replacing the inverter is probably not a very common job, it might be something an owner is faced with at some time. Removing paneling. Dismounting the refrigerator. I decided to gain access to the hidden compartment by removing the floor of the wall closet. There is a seam around the base that is trimmed with molding. And there is a roundhead screw in the front corner suggesting the floor could be lifted out.
Not familiar with the idiosyncrasies of RV manufacture techniques, I considered hiring a RV Repair Shop. The shop owner looked at the project and offered to call back with an appointment. I offered it as an over the winter project for his shop and told he could have a six-month window of opportunity. After not hearing back, I tried reaching out. Obviously, he wasn't interested.
I decided to undertake it myself. Removing RV wall paneling can seem like a difficult job. And, pulling the wall paneling off can be unnerving for a couple of reasons. First, will I ever get the RV back together as it was? And, second what will I find behind the paneling? I prepared to deal with any issues found inside the wall. Water damage, mold, dead rodents, whatever it is. I just removed a small section and was relieved to find pristine surfaces.
There is both electrical and plumbing in the wall I worked on. I had shut off the power and water supplies before starting.
Summarizing several hours of work, the cabinet floor was not floating on supports. Instead, the walls were supported by the cabinet floor. The closet floor extends horizontally to the bathroom cabinets partition and is attached with staples. Wrecking tools are required to open the structure. As I proceeded, wishing I had resolved to go without replacing the inverter, I was joined by a much younger man and was aided by his brute strength. The wall paneling is flexible enough that it can be forced to "curl" We were able to bend everything enough to work inside the partition wall between the closet and bathroom to disassemble the structure.
Much to my disappointment, the wood used by Phoenix Cruiser to build the cabinet structure is pressed paper. I used construction grade lumber to replace the cobinetry and used screws instead of those miserable staples that had "machine gunned" into the assembly.
-
Taildragger, it does look like you had a small opening to work on your inverter. Tight quarters make for a miserable job.
What was the final diagnosis? Were you able to repair it? Or did you replace it,, and with what?
-
Xantrex 2000 Full Sine Wave
Factory location under closet is too tight for wrenches being used. Replacement mandated opening access. Taking out the refrigerator or busting through the cabinet floor are the two alternatives. Fridge removal seemed like a huge undertaking. Learning the cabinet structure was pressed paper made me question what should have been woodwork
Got the replacement installed and verified operation Ran out of time and had to return home before actually running system to test performance.
-
Only opening to the inverter's hidden compartment is by removing the small drawer under the closet. Obviously, the factory installed the inverter first. Then built everything around it
-
I too have a few questions for Taildragger.
We have a 2007 2350 (no slide)
You have a 2010 2350 (no slide)
Our inverter is under the main closet, the same as you indicated, but we do not have a drawer.
We have a Tripp-Lite inverter. Was your original one a Tripp-Lite?
We have a vented access door. You don't? Did I understand you correctly, access to the inverter is through a small drawer opening? Are you saying the inverter does not fit through the provided access?
What comes to mind for increasing the size of the opening, is removing the cabinet rail along the bottom of the accress opening. It may be screwed on from behind like I seen practiced with the galley cabinet. You could confirm my suspicion with a mirror.
Why did you replace your inverter? Did it fail?
For reference, here is the situation with our Tripp-Lite inverter. We have NO drawer.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/8371/8463549354_e613b5f584_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/8109/8462448651_8763d54657_z.jpg)
-
I appreciate the questions. I will try eliminating any confusion I may have caused. Unfortunately, including appropriate pictures is denied. Because the Cruiser is stored in Oregon, I won't be getting an opportunity for pictures until early April - next year.
The 20007 Phoenix Cruiser 2100 included the TrippLite Inverter/Converter combination. The installation location was slightly different from the 2350 in this thread.. As part of the effort to shorten overall cabin length, there was no closet in the PC2100. The Tripplite was positioned under the refrigerator. The Tripplite was open to access and performed flawlessly.
The 2010 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 came equipped with Xantrex electronics. Positioning was about the same as pictured in the accompanying Tripplite installation. The Xantrex unit is a lower profile and allowed Phoenix Cruiser cabinetry to be slightly different. Designer, or whoever decides configuration, eliminated all access to the Inverter. Wall cabinet was built a few inches taller. The space underneath was utilized as a small drawer. The access was very restricted. Removing the drawer was the only avenue and the opening was small.
The Xantrex brand includes a Remote-Control panel that displays features and allows operation from a mounting location on the bulkhead adjacent to the ONAN Generator Panel. Ostensibly, everything and anything can be done remotely. Off/On, isn't an issue. According to the Manual, Reset is accomplished by physically disconnecting the cables. Granted, the battery cables can be disconnected at the source. But, not being able to physically manipulate the connections, concerns about possible corrosion, integrity, etc., etc...
I realized the unit had to be accessed in order to perform diagnostics. From writing to this forum, I learned others found their Xantrex under the corner bed. I also learned some had replaced their Xantrex equipment several times. Some suggested I consider alternatives. Victron was lauded as more full featured. I also found that RV Repair providers were very reluctant to undertake the project after I told the unit was secreted and inaccessible.
Space was my primary concern. The replacement had to fit in the same constrained compartment. I elected to create approach through the bottom of the closet. Working from floor level in the narrow aisle between the corner bed / bathroom / closet - would have had me boxed in too much and violated one of the first principles my Dad taught when approaching a project "the first thing to do is get your ass behind you"
-
Not exactly a good example of the features built into graphics software, but here is a quick representation of the 2010 version of Phoenix Cruiser's cabinetry.
The closet dimension is higher as allowed by the bottom being several inches lower . There is a drawer below the cabinet is the only avenue into the compartment where they placed the inverter.
-
Ah, that made it very clear as to the difference between our 2007 2350 (no slide) and your 2010 2350 (no slide).
Only for reference and clarification, our Tripp-Lite has a remote control panel as well, be it very simple. I don't like using it because it does not fully shut off the unit. I believe it places the unit into some kind of "sleep mode" or "stand-by mode" still drawing a small amount of power. Instead, I open the Tripp-Lite door, reach in, and shut it off utilizing the small black switch on the Tripp-Lite itself. My front TV and my 110V volt meter draws a small amount of 110V leaving me feeling it is best to kill 110V right at the source to assure it is 100% dead when I want it dead, exclusively done for better battery health.
Here is the Tripp-Lite remote panel, seen to the right of the power panel. Below them is access to the main 12V power solenoid and a few other electrical connections along with rear access to the two panels from below.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/8380/8462450425_aee03897bd_z.jpg)
-
During my experience with the TrippLite Inverter/Converter performed reliably. That for the brief period I owned the PC 2100. I relied on the Control Panel to monitor operation and battery condition. The product was trouble free. Following the suggestions in this Forum by Ron Dittmer, years ago, I installed a voltmeter/ammeter in the range hood. The colored lights on the TrippLite Control Panel displayed usage. But they did little to portray battery reserve level status condition. I benefitted from the supplemental gauge. Another nonintuitive revelation was being made aware that using the manual Off/On switch on the device, instead of the control panel, to preserve battery potential.
The new Xantrex Control Panel appears to be more full featured. I look forward to using the system and testing the features claimed in the manual.
The Xantrex Inverter installed in the PC 2350 failed. Replacement was complicated because location within the RV seems to vary among models and year. Other Xantrex owners, on this forum, report the same fate. But, they reported exchanging theirs for a replacement as if access didn't require demolition measures.
Other Phoenix Cruiser owners with Xantrex failures, suggested an alternate brand as replacement. I contacted Victron through their website. I got a reply with suggested authorized dealers. Contacting several, I quickly learned a marketing scheme prevailed. They all expected that I submit to a design engineering contract where I would be billed $120 to $160 / hour. I explained my wiring and installation were already in place. And all I wanted was a simple replacement. It mattered little. Seemed they expected customers to willingly submit to entrapment.
-
I never understood the reason, or heard why Phoenix changed from the Tripp-Lite inverter that we have in our 2007, to the Xantrax that Taildragger has (or had) in his 2010. The Tripp-Lite had a very short life span in terms of Phoenix model years. It was introduced in late 2006 as an option that also included 2 house batteries, that later became standard equipment in 2007, and lasted but a few Phoenix production years. Prior to the Tripp-Lite, Phoenix installed only a 12V converter supported by a single house battery.
As I mentioned higher-up, I wonder if Taildragger and others with the same limited access to the Xantrax, could have increased it by unscrewing the bottom frame rail (from behind) and lower panel (with heat register) under the drawer. Phoenix assembled the cabinetry back then using the "pocket hole" method. Maybe they still do today.
(https://homemade-furniture.com/wp-content/uploads/pocket-holes.jpg)
-
Replacing the Inverter on a 2010 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 is an undertaking that requires an insight into the construction of the cabinet enclosure. I couldn't generate any response communication from the various industry sources. Without meaningful insight, or any response from Phoenix Cruiser's Service Department, my only alternative was to blunder into the project.
Since the cabinet doors and drawers rest on the cabinet frame and the stiles / rails served as a frame on the cabinet box without Mortise & Tenon, Dovetail, Dado, or Rabbet joints anywhere, it is not surprising the base wasn't secured to the floor with Pocket Hole cabinetry. The cabinet's clothes closet bottom plate appeared to be my best avenue into the inverter vault. I mistakenly assumed lifting the closet bottom and sliding the underneath drawer out it its rails was cleverly intended as an access route by Phoenix Cruiser Design Team Engineers.
Not true, as I learned from inside the closet! Because, although removing the bottom quarter-round trim reveals the plate is not solid on three sides, the fourth side blindly extends to the adjacent bathroom wall and is affixed with a more than adequate array of pneumatic staples. Relying on my grandson, who is the strongest, smartest, and best-looking specimen representing what remains of that part of the human race showing any potential, we ripped the paper board assembly loose.
Reassembly was accomplished using dimension lumber. Where the construction required attachment to the residiual paperboard, we predrilled holes and inserted screws. Of course, torque is a sensitive issue when relying on paperboard. Fearing the consequence of using glue on the joints, I now fear the assembly collapsing from road vibration pyho
-
So, no pocket-hole disassembly applies here. I surely understand how you came to the conclusion you did. I could see myself doing the same thing.
Looking back on the project, what was learned from it, I wonder now if it would have been best to cut the floor of the closet, one inch (or less) in from the 4 edges to create a large rectangular access opening. Once the inverter project is complete, cover the hole with an additional finished plywood board, cut perfectly to cover the entire floor of the closet. Screw it down to the original closet floor edges for structural integrity.
For a price, Phoenix should be able to ship a 1/8" thick matching finish board, a few inches bigger. Make a pattern from paper to get the perfect shape.
This doesn't help you now Taildragger, but maybe someone else.... if it is a good approach.
-
Looking back on the project, what was learned from it, I wonder now if it would have been best to cut the floor of the closet, one inch (or less) in from the 4 edges to create a large rectangular access opening. Once the inverter project is complete, cover the hole with an additional finished plywood board, cut perfectly to cover the entire floor of the closet. Screw it down to the original closet floor edges for structural integrity.
.
Your conclusion describes exactly the procedure I should have used. As your intuition dictates, a scroll saw cutting through the 3/4 " paperboard closet floor would have provided an equivalent access to what I obtained by instead busting everything. Hopefully, this dialog will provide insight to others.
Not knowing otherwise and presuming there was a logical disassembly procedure incorporated into the design decision caused me to proceed blindly. After all, what engineer would bury an electronic device that is known to require maintenance in a vault like inaccessible location? I was looking for an alternative to cutting my way into the buried compartment and instead proceeded by prying the walls apart.
Opening the "lid", by cutting open the closet floor, would have been much less complicated. Dealing with what seemed like just one more staple, in a futile attempt to find the fourth side was "openable", evolved into multiple "last" staples that lead to finding the rearward edge of the closet floor was bracing the bathroom wall. While I was focused on prying the floor up, I was expecting the resistance was nothing more than one more concealed staple. Imaging a seam inside the wall that needed to be forced open, I soon was engaged in a demolition effort that I never expected. And couldn't reverse.