Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Art and Barbara on November 17, 2021, 08:50:32 pm
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Hi! We're really hoping all you 2910D and 2910T owners out there can help us out. We are trying to find out what the OCCC is for both models and have not been able to find anything. Can anyone out there help us with that information?
Many thanks in advance...we are downsizing from a Class A and this info will help us decide which PC to get!
Barbara and Art
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Not trying to be smart here but what's an OCCC?
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Not trying to be smart here but what's an OCCC?
It confuses me too. it is Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity.
All I know is what our 2007 2350 weighs empty (pre-Alcoa wheels) at home with a tank full of gasoline and propane.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/21657658075_6c460314de_w.jpg)
Here is our weigh-in during this past trip with our new Alcoa wheels. Each Alcoa alloy wheel weighs 20 pounds less than a steel wheel for an over-all weight reduction of 80 pounds. We weighed in at 100 pounds below GVWR for our 2007 E350 chassis which is 11,500 pounds. GVWR is Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which means the max amount the rig should weigh after loading it up including occupants.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51554797010_ca4e43c627.jpg)
Due to our load distribution between front and rear axles, our 2007 E350's rear axle GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) of 7800 pounds is exceeded by 420 pounds. I don't fret over it because of the suspension upgrades done in back with a heavy duty rear stabilizer bar, heavy duty Bilstein shocks, and a rear trac bar. Our chassis came without a rear stabilizer bar so the suspension upgrades must count for something.
Our over-weight condition would go away if we didn't carry a full tank of fresh water, but we carry it anyway. Unlike model 2350 starting in 2008, our 2007 has the fresh water tank located as far back as possible, placed against the rear wall. That throws our rear axle weight over the limit. The leverage from the tank location, amplifies the weight, making the front axle lighter. It is surely not ideal, but I think I took good care of it through the various suspension upgrades.
I share this as an example of how everyone should review their PC weight. Not only for weight limits, but also to determine what tire pressure is required for each axle.
Art & Barb are asking a great question because model 2910T is the heaviest of PCs. Know what you are getting into.
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As Ron said, OCCC stands for Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity. Basically, it's the weight of everything you put in your motorhome (people, all your stuff (food, tools, clothing, dishes, etc.) and fresh water) and still be within the weight limitation that the motorhome chassis was designed to carry.
It's an important number for safety reasons, as well as wear and tear on the motorhome. It seems to be a number that some RV sales people are reluctant to discuss.
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Attached below is the OCCC sticker on my 2019 2910T. It shows a OCCC of 1255 lbs. My coach has the Liquid Spring rear suspension which adds around 385 lbs to the rear axle weight. This sticker is mounted on the front passenger door jamb. My salesmen, Barry Hyser and Bob White at the Jacksonville Campers Inn(CI), gladly took pictures of the tags on the various coaches on their lot and sent them to me. Of course, not all salesmen have the expertise that Barry has, since he is the former production manager at the Phoenix factory and Bob is a former CI rep at the factory. As I'm sure you know, the OCCC numbers will change slightly depending on options on the coach. Bob even took the coach I purchased and had it weighed for me before I agreed to purchase it.
Also attached below is the weight ticket from my fully loaded for travel 2910T. By loaded I mean with a significantly less amount of items than I had previously on my 38 ft diesel pusher I downsized from. As you can see, I am overloaded on the rear axle by about 400 lbs. I am ok with this number since one of the first things I did after purchasing the coach was to replace the factory tires with Michelin Agilis Cross Climate C metric tires. These tires provide an additional 400 lb capacity per tire on the rear axle (dual configuration). The original tires are essentially at rated capacity at the 9600 lb axle capacity. I did not decide to purchase the coach until I had located a higher load rated tire to replace the factory ones.
I also talked to Wayne Wells at Liquid Spring and he assured me that their suspension system would easily handle 11,000 lbs. Of course, he is very careful to point out that their system does not increase the rated loaded capacity of the rear axle of 9600 lbs. The Liquid Spring suspension is worth every pound of additional weight but is no longer installed on the 31 foot coaches due to how much it pushes the weight limit on the Ford E450 chassis.
The 2910D model should be around 400 lbs lighter than the 2910T since it only has 2 slides.
Kevin
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Kevin, thank you so much! This is exactly the kind of information that we were hoping to get.
You mentioned that your coach has the Liquid Spring suspension, but are we understanding correctly that it will no longer be installed on even the 2910s?
Also, we're assuming from your post that you do not have the automatic leveling jacks...I would imagine that adds an additional several hundred pounds?
We appreciate the information you provided regarding your tires...that is something we would definitely want to do, as well.
And thank you, too, for mentioning your salesmen at the Jacksonville Campers Inn. One of our future questions was going to be recommendations for Phoenix Cruiser dealerships and I think this one goes right on our list.
--- Barbara and Art
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I am surely no expert so please take this only as my fireside suggestion.
If I absolutely wanted model 2910T, I would buy one without Liquid Springs to avoid the extra weight (not available anyway), get the leveling jacks and extra capacity tires, and enjoy. It seems motorhomes with the current slide-out mechanisms with synchronized motors, are very sensitive to being out-of level. If the rig is not levelled before operating the slide-outs, they often develop problems.
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All OCCC numbers (now that I know what you are asking) are "make believe" numbers because they presume that occupants and cargo are evenly distributed over the axles. That 1255 lbs mentioned above... Put 1,000 lbs of that in the rear bed and go weigh the vehicle.. You will be overloaded even though, in theory, you still have 255 more pounds capacity.
Yes, that's not a realistic load pattern, in real life it would me more spread out... But the long overhang of the 2910 "exaggerates" Any weight placed in the coach behind the rear axle itself. So just view the coach's OCCC as a target that will lower unless you properly plan where things go.
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All OCCC numbers (now that I know what you are asking) are "make believe" numbers because they presume that occupants and cargo are evenly distributed over the axles. That 1255 lbs mentioned above... Put 1,000 lbs of that in the rear bed and go weigh the vehicle.. You will be overloaded even though, in theory, you still have 255 more pounds capacity.
Yes, that's not a realistic load pattern, in real life it would me more spread out... But the long overhang of the 2910 "exaggerates" Any weight placed in the coach behind the rear axle itself. So just view the coach's OCCC as a target that will lower unless you properly plan where things go.
Don, you hit the nail on the head. That is EXACTLY the challenge everyone deals with. Our 2350 with the short 158" wheel base and long rear overhang is no exception, in-fact quite extreme. Model 2100 is exaggerated even worse. In our case, the solution would be to travel with a minimal amount of fresh water of around 5 gallons, and of coarse no waste water.
I think the condition exists with every motorhome (regardless of brand) with a rear frame extension of which they all do. The best PC for weight distribution are models 2551 and 2552, but even they don't get by scot-free.
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Barbara and Art,
You are correct that Phoenix is no longer installing Liquid Spring on the 2910. Our coach does have the HWH automatic leveling jacks.
Please post any other questions you may have.
Kevin
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This is an interesting conversation and important original inquiry by Art and Barbara. I bet 80+% of the owners of motorhomes never heard of load calculations or never pay attention to them but that no way diminishes the importance of the numbers.
Those who have had a travel trailer might be more familiar with the concepts and calculations. A pull behind trailer has an axle or two that are actually fulcrums in one way of thinking about them and balancing weight front to back is very important. Too much on the front and your tongue weight can really effect the tow vehicle and too little up front can be a real problem as well. Weight distribution and amount is also something you really have to watch in small aircraft. That is the reason in early commercial aviation every passenger was weighed and why even today luggage is normally weighed. I recently flew on a small inter island air service that still - properly - weighs the passengers.
Saving grace on a motorhome is probably some built in undisclosed safety factor. Hopefully.
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Barry may know who’s call it was to drop the LS option from the heavier coaches. A low mileage pre-owned 2910D with liquid springs could be very desirable if it’s not a reliability issue.
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A low mileage pre-owned 2910D with liquid springs could be very desirable if it’s not a reliability issue.
I tend to agree.
As many here know, I don't care for any slide-outs to begin with, but even more so when they are on the passenger side intruding on critical outdoor living space. A clean passenger-side wall with a full length awning is ideal to me.
Sorry for insulting some here.
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Thank you all for your insights...Art and I truly appreciate it. We have been RVing for over 20 years and full-timing the past 6+ years in a Class A. But for various reasons, we want to downsize before we come off the full-time road.
Since we will continue full-timing, we wanted the convenience of a permanent bed and a dinette is very important as we need to spend considerable time on our laptops. So the 2910T definitely caught our attention, but the three slides made us wary about the OCCC. However, your OCCC has encouraged us, Kevin, as well as Ron's "fireside suggestion" (that's a wonderful phrase): "If I absolutely wanted model 2910T, I would buy one without Liquid Springs to avoid the extra weight (not available anyway), get the leveling jacks and extra capacity tires, and enjoy."
And Don, your suggestion to "view the coach's OCCC as a target that will lower unless you properly plan where things go" has also given us some hope as we have definitely learned how to minimize and distribute our stuff over the years.
Our research has only just begun and we still need to see a 2910T in person. We are heading over to La Mesa RV in Tucson today to see a PC 2552 so that we can see for ourselves the quality of the Phoenix Cruiser workmanship. But our research and questions to this forum will continue.
Once again, many thanks to all of you...this forum is such a great resource!
--- Barbara and Art
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Our research has only just begun and we still need to see a 2910T in person. We are heading over to La Mesa RV in Tucson today to see a PC 2552 so that we can see for ourselves the quality of the Phoenix Cruiser workmanship.
That is a very good plan. Check out a different model locally to examine general workmanship and the over-all dimensional feel. Every PC has the same width and height. Only the lengths vary. You will learn a lot walking through a model you are not interested in. You just might say something like...."We didn't realize how small a PC is." and decide to rule out every PC. For some people, the smaller width and height are sought after. For others, it's downsizing too much. It can become a problem for exceptionally tall people. 6 feet with shoes on is about it before hitting your head on the a/c unit in the ceiling, and the shower against the side wall with sloping-down ceiling (which every model has) can be another point of contention, even considering the domed skylight. But you have a shot at success with a 2910 D or T opening up the interior, as long as nobody is taller than 6 feet. Of coarse, you also have to approve of the interior design in concept, general workmanship (fit and finish), and chosen materials.
Keep in mind that Hickory will be your hardest wood that resists damage the best. We just bought a set of Amish bedroom furniture made of hickory and it is exceptionally good stuff. Stained just right blends together the contrasting character without loosing the character.
Good luck kicking the tires on that 2552. I would love to hear about your evaluation.
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Ron, you asked for an evaluation of our visit to La Mesa RV to see the PC 2552. We were very impressed with the quality of the materials and the workmanship on the 2552, even more so after we then viewed an Entegra Odyssey and a Dynamax Isata. Those two coaches were acceptable, but the 2552 just felt a step above. We particularly thought the cupboards and drawers on the 2552 were more solid.
Since Art is 6' tall, we were concerned that he might feel cramped inside a PC, but he felt there was no problem, even after standing in the coach for a considerable amount of time. And we really like the lower profile of the PC, especially compared to the Isata. In full disclosure, one of the reasons we're wanting to downsize is to get a coach that I'm more comfortable driving and I think a PC would definitely fit the bill.
There were some features of the Entegra Odyssey 26M we really liked (the galley, the Murphy bed, the large dinette), but we were alarmed to see how very low and far back the dump valves are. It seems that could be a disaster just waiting to happen and it felt like a deal breaker to us.
The storage in the Isata 4 25FWF was impressive, but the materials didn't seem to be the same high quality as the PC 2552. And there's a pretty significant step up into the bed and bath area and that also felt like a disaster just waiting to happen.
We only looked at three different vehicles today, but the PC 2552 was by far our favorite. Now we just need to find a 2910T to look at. :)
--- Barbara and Art
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Hi Barb,
Especially because of Art's height, see if someone on this forum, at Phoenix, or at a dealership, will provide the dimensions of the dinette in a 2910D and T. You will find that the "D" dinette will be significantly bigger because it is NOT placed inside a slide-out. With a "D", Art's long legs won't tangle up with your legs, and the much larger table will be much appreciated. You will loose the euro chair there because the bigger dinette utilizes that space.
Regardless of model, the dinette without a slide-out utilizes the adjacent angled transition wall. It also gains roughly 6 extra inches as it does not need to accommodate slide-out wall thickness and trim. CLICK HERE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157682846402944) to see our no-side 2350 dinette which helps to visualize what I am talking about, most especially the last picture. Another benefit will be the extra large over-head cabinets.
You mentioned that you like the reduced width and height of a PC. There you go. Welcome to the club of people who find that attractive. My wife Irene has no problem driving our PC because of that. The reduced facial area also reduces drag and is more tolerant to wind gusts and such. This head-on picture clarifies that.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/2432/3743989153_b6411a139a_z.jpg)
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Ron, thank you again for your insights and your suggestions. Even though we're not new to RVing, we are very new to the Phoenix Cruiser world, so we truly appreciate your experience and your input.
So if we're understanding correctly, we could get the two slide 2910D but with a dinette in lieu of the two Euro chairs and the small table between them?
And the factory is still willing to do some customization even with the ownership change in 2017 and the return to selling through authorized dealers beginning in 2019? If so, we are very encouraged!
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So if we're understanding correctly, we could get the two slide 2910D but with a dinette in lieu of the two Euro chairs and the small table between them?
And the factory is still willing to do some customization even with the ownership change in 2017 and the return to selling through authorized dealers beginning in 2019? If so, we are very encouraged!
You ask a good question. It is surely worth asking the factory for such a minor deviation. Worst case scenario is buying and later modifying.