Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: lmichael on April 04, 2011, 02:46:58 pm
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Sometime this year I plan on buying a vehicle to tow behind my pc. I've noticed a lot of references to Jeep Liberty as toads in this forum. I know there are a lot of variables and personal preferences, but I would be interested in hearing why so many have chosen the Jeep.
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We got the Jeep Liberty because in the 4 wheel drive version, it is simple to go from driving to towing it, you have to put the transfer case into the "N" position (about 5 steps to do this). You do not have to pull any fuses. No limit on how far you can tow or how fast. It is lighter than the larger Jeeps, about 3400 lbs. You can go off roading or to the shopping mall. The rear doors make it easy to take another couple along with you and still have plenty of room for all the shopping goodies the DWs like to buy. A buddy of mine has the Jeep wrangler, another fine toad, but getting in and out of the back is a real pain for the women. He has to carry a small step to set outside for them and they have to back out onto this step. Not the best setup.
And most important is that "It is a Jeep thing." 2o2
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What Tom Says!
That and my wife thinks her 2006 Jeep Liberty is "The Cutest Thing".
It does seem to make a good everyday use vehicle, not just for vacationing/towing. My wife would agree that Jeep could have done better with interior design for bigger storgae compartments like in the center console for example. Maybe the make-over in introduced in 2008 is better, but we would not know.
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Hi:
I agree withTom. Ours is a 2005 liberty with a diesel engine that I bought new in 05. I originally bought it because I wanted the diesel engine. I get about 30 miles to the gallon. It was just pure luck on my part that I could tow it. It is about 400 lbs heavier than the gas jobs. I tell you that towing it is a dream. I dont even know it is back there. I also have not put anti sway or trac bars on yet. I can put the back seats down and have plenty of room to carry stuff. I can use the back hitch to tow or cary bikes. The four wheel drive is the real thing and not that silly awd system that most auto manufacturers tout which comes in handy in NE PA for snow or driving on muddy fields. Most every mechanic can service a Jeep, even in the back woods country. Can't say that for Honda's or some other foreign cars. I will say that my wife just purchased a mini cooper convertible and I partially considered transferring the tow system to that, but as I yet I have not. Last but not least, It is a Jeep thing.
David
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Thanks for your comments. Jeep is one of the vehicles I'm considering, and your info helps. My wife keeps pushing for the Jeep, too. No pressure there...
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Found a good deal on a 2005 Jeep Wrangler that I couldn't refuse. Now have to get tow bar, base plate, wiring and brake. Any recommendations for the tow bar? I've noticed several good comments for the Blue Ox. Hopefully, I'll be able to do the installation myself.
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I use a Blue Ox tow bar that I got in 2004. My friend likes the Roadmaster bar. Both of us have been happy with our bars, but I will say his is a lot lighter to carry and put in the reciver than mine. Just make sure you get one that can handle 5000 lbs.
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I have used a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar for 3 years and it has performed flawlessly. Also, Blue Ox stands behind their product. The Aladdin tow bars are going to be rated at 7,500lbs on those that ship after 1/1/11.
Another thing to consider is if you want to store the tow bar on the back of your PC or on the front of your jeep when not in use.
All the major bands should perform well.
Barry
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We have a Roadmaster Falcon-II tow bar. It folds and stores easy as seen here. It also folds more compact, collapsing the triangle, then folded horizontally, though I've never did that as I never had a need to do so. I also like it's ease of hooking to the tow because the tow bar expands and contracts to help in aligning it to the tow vehicle. Once latched, I roll or dirve the tow backwards to lock the bar in the extended position, then do all the cables and wire harness at that point.
Tow bar shown collapsed, folded & latched vertically.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2556/3744782838_07263c0c51_b.jpg)
Shown hooked up to my previous tow vehicle with bar fully extended, ready to leave.
My new tow Jeep Liberty looks exactly the same except my wire cable today is thicker and coily with more wires for the braking system I use, a Unified by US Gear.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3492009900_56bf80a282_z.jpg?zz=1)
I know nothing about the Blue Ox. Maybe it has the same types of features.
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Geeeez Ron, that tow bar almost looks as bad as a ladder? roflol roflol roflol roflol
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Geeeez Ron, that tow bar almost looks as bad as a ladder? roflol roflol roflol roflol
(nod)
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Lmichael:
As usual I have to be different then everyone. I looked at blue ox and roadmaster. Too expensive, so I purchased the Demco system. It is almost the same as Ron's system with less weight. Mine does not have that big cross bar across the front of the car. When it is removed you only two covers on the front of the Jeep that look like fog light covers. Provided you have the right tools and a Saturday, you can install it yourself and save even more money. Check it out here. http://www.towdemco.com/victoryseriestowbars/towbars/commander.html It weighs 41 lbs and my 12 yr old son hooks it up most of the time for me. It can handle 6000 lbs towing. I think I recall paying about $450.00.
Enjoy the Jeep!!!
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The Demco looks like a nice product. 2o2
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Thanks for the comments. I'll look up the demco tow bar and base plate.
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Found a good price on the Demco products, so ordered today. Thanks again for the comments and info. Next step--wiring.
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Imichael, how do you like the Demco system tow bar? I have a blue ox and want something lighter. Do you mind, what does the system include and whats the cost? Have a Honda cr-v and looking at for a light weight truck. thanks, billy
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The Demco Cammander tow bar works great, and it is very easy & quick to hook-up. It weighs 41 lbs and has a 6,000 lb towing capacity. The self-supporting arms make hook-up and disconnect more convenient. When disconnected, the bar swings to either side (both arms on same side, or one arm on each side) for out of the way storage. It comes with safety cables, and there is an attached rod for holding the wire cord. I ordered it from PPL Motor Homes (pplmotorhomes.com) for $422. For the same price, you can get the same tow bar with blue ox adapter. I've only towed the Jeep from Phoenix up the mountain to Pine, AZ (90 miles) so far, but next week I'll be towing it to San Diego. I'll let you know if there are any issues on the longer trip.
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Imichael, this is what I have, is the Demco Commander the same? I guess I could call them but sometime they make you feel less the smart! pyho
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Hi Billy,
These are the end pieces that come standard on the Demco Commander. The tabs are 5/8" thk by 1.5" wide, same as yours. But the distance to the end is 1.5" from center of hole, if too much for your existing baseplate then they could be cut down. Also, the hole is for a 1/2" pin. You can purchase adapters from Demco to fit other brand baseplates, but they are pricey.
BTW, the sale at PPL Motor Homes that Imichael noted is a great buy, $422 and $8 shipping. I paid $525 shipped 1 1/2 years ago, and that was the best deal I could find at the time.
Bob A.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6XO9x9wftIE/TiXnlNpKo3I/AAAAAAAAAIA/1tWwCtzKXZY/s720/IMG_1360.JPG)
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I checked my adaptor on the Honda and I have just a tad over 1 1/2 ". With the rounded corners of the picture you show, I see no reason why it will not work.
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Reply to my reply, Just a minute ago I ordered the Demco Commander with the Blue Ox adaptor. Not really sure what the adaptors are but they are included for the same price. ????????
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Billy,
This is the Blue Ox adapter that Demco makes, it is $85 purchased separately but I guess they could include it with the tow bar at the same price if they swap out the standard adapter. It has three tabs where yours has only one? I did a quick check on the Blue Ox website and all their adapters have three tabs. Not sure why your Blue Ox is different or which you should order.
Bob
(http://www.demco-products.com/images/stories/9523041.jpg)
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According to the web site they come with the hitch.
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Bobander did a great job in his reply, so I have little to add. A note of caution, though. I thought the tow bar came out of the box ready to use--which I did. Then I read the instructions/information more carefully and noticed two nuts need to be tightened after aligning the bar to the toad (85 ft/lbs).
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We have to tighten 2 nuts every time we go on a trip. Most especially the one behind the wheel.
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Reply to my reply, Just a minute ago I ordered the Demco Commander with the Blue Ox adaptor. Not really sure what the adaptors are but they are included for the same price. ????????
"According to the web site they come with the hitch."
Remove head from butt and called PPL and got the correct tow Bar. Really don't know what I was (THINKING). Maybe that's the problem.
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Lmichael:
I am glad that the Demco worked well for you. I always hate recommending something to someone when so few others use it. It is really easy to use and is more economical than the other name brands.
@ Billy. The demco system should work fine for what you have.
Enjoy!
David
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We have to tighten 2 nuts every time we go on a trip. Most especially the one behind the wheel.
The Demco arrived today, looks like a great unit. Do you really need to tighten two nuts. I usually tell people in my car, There is a "loose nut behind the wheel" The ends at the honda will work just fine.
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Billy:
I probably do not check my um... nuts too often. I am not as young as I used to be. roflol
Seriously, I check them at least once while using them and I have only tightened them once and probably did not need to but you can never be too safe.
David
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The two nuts I mentioned were barely finger tight. The instructions showed they should be torgued to 85 ft/lbs.
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I could not help but observe the thredaing of safety cables in a posted picture that was not correct...the last wrap around the tow bar (according to Roadmaster) should be to the inside not the outside so the towed vehicle tracks appropriately in and emergency situation.
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I don't know about cables, but Ron, I have never in my life seen a Roadmaster Falcon stored with the cross bar left on the tow bar instead of on the toad. My previous motorhome had a Roadmaster and I distinctly remember the instruction manual showing unhooking the ends on the bar rods, not by unhooking the crossbar from the toad. I realize it's six of one and half dozen of the other, but it means when you store it as shown it obstructs getting into the rear compartment on the PC. I now have a Blue Ox setup which I like a little better than the Roadmaster, largely because it has rubber dust covers over the stainless steel bars. For some reason Blue Ox seems to be the most common bar in dealers here in Arkansas. I also looked briefly at the price of a Blue Ox bar and a Demco and the base plates and they were within a few bucks of each other online, so it really seems to be a case of whatever feels good to the individual owner. I've never talked to anyone who had a towbar fail while in use, but I'm sure it must happen or they wouldn't sell safety chains.
Jerry
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I don't know about cables, but Ron, I have never in my life seen a Roadmaster Falcon stored with the cross bar left on the tow bar instead of on the toad. My previous motorhome had a Roadmaster and I distinctly remember the instruction manual showing unhooking the ends on the bar rods, not by unhooking the crossbar from the toad. I realize it's six of one and half dozen of the other, but it means when you store it as shown it obstructs getting into the rear compartment on the PC. I now have a Blue Ox setup which I like a little better than the Roadmaster, largely because it has rubber dust covers over the stainless steel bars. For some reason Blue Ox seems to be the most common bar in dealers here in Arkansas. I also looked briefly at the price of a Blue Ox bar and a Demco and the base plates and they were within a few bucks of each other online, so it really seems to be a case of whatever feels good to the individual owner. I've never talked to anyone who had a towbar fail while in use, but I'm sure it must happen or they wouldn't sell safety chains.
Jerry
Talk to me, I had the connector on the toad fail on one side by taking an "ess" turn too tightly in Branson, broke a weld, everything came to a halt on the safety chains. I did not feel it but saw it in the rearview camera when the truck started moving a couple of feet side to side.
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Now I've heard of someone actually needing those safety chains. Reading your account and seeing some of the adaptor ends for tow bars in earlier posts made me think of one thing that could be a problem under certain conditions. Roadmaster uses a spreader bar on the tow bar to take lateral forces off the baseplate attachment points. Blue Ox uses a built in spreader bar as part of the base plate. If a person had a Blue Ox towbar with Roadmaster adaptor ends to tow a car with Roadmaster base plates, it seems to me that there is the possibility of a lot of lateral force being generated, particularly on tight turns. Any comments from anybody on this? I briefly had a Roadmaster bar adapted to tow a car with Blue Ox bases, but in that case, the base plate was a built in spread bar that made up for the loss of the Roadmaster spreader bar.
Jerry
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Ron, I have never in my life seen a Roadmaster Falcon stored with the cross bar left on the tow bar instead of on the toad. My previous motorhome had a Roadmaster and I distinctly remember the instruction manual showing unhooking the ends on the bar rods, not by unhooking the crossbar from the toad. I realize it's six of one and half dozen of the other, but it means when you store it as shown it obstructs getting into the rear compartment on the PC. Jerry
Jerry, you are correct in stating that I unhook the Jeep differently than what is considered normal. You are also correct in stating the tow bar triangle interferes when opening the rear hatch.
But......
It is extremely fast and easy to hookup and unhook the two vehicles that way. To get into the rear storage compartment, I pivot the hitch to the left, then drop it to the ground in the same direction which then clears the rear door. That takes but a few seconds.
I would assume Roadmaster does not instruct people to do as I do for fear that they would drive the motor home with the hitch as shown in my picture. That would be very dangerous because the latch to lock it vertically, could easily let go on the first big bump. I do drive with it that way, but only very slow at camp sites when manuevering the motor home after unhooking.
I never unhook the two vehicles the official way. It's just too much work and hassle.
BTW, after I unhook the triangle, I quickly twist and pull out the remaining tow brackets (Roadmaster calls Front Arms) to the Jeep, because they would fall out by themselves when driving the Jeep.
To everyone else, this is the triangle being discussed.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2556/3744782838_07263c0c51_z.jpg)
This is the twist and pull bracket called EZ, by Roadmaster.
(http://www.roadmasterinc.com/img/ez_bracket.jpg)
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Now I've heard of someone actually needing those safety chains. Reading your account and seeing some of the adaptor ends for tow bars in earlier posts made me think of one thing that could be a problem under certain conditions. Roadmaster uses a spreader bar on the tow bar to take lateral forces off the baseplate attachment points. Blue Ox uses a built in spreader bar as part of the base plate. If a person had a Blue Ox towbar with Roadmaster adaptor ends to tow a car with Roadmaster base plates, it seems to me that there is the possibility of a lot of lateral force being generated, particularly on tight turns. Any comments from anybody on this? I briefly had a Roadmaster bar adapted to tow a car with Blue Ox bases, but in that case, the base plate was a built in spread bar that made up for the loss of the Roadmaster spreader bar.
Jerry
The Blue Ox is the one I had that broke. HR Ambassador pulling a 4x4 Mazda PU. The tow bar was PU mounted (and removable) with NO spreader bar. I no longer have it.
The current one is a Roadmaster Falcon 5250 MH mounted with the spreader bar mounted on the removable car brackets. As mentioned I run the cables so that the last wrap is inside the triangle and CROSSED under the the mount to catch the tow bar if something breaks and to lessen the amount of free play that would allow the tow bar to hit, drag or pole vault if something broke or if something came unhooked. I can swing the tow bar unhooked from the car to make sure I have turn clearance in the cables; surprisingly it takes very little to be able to turn. Cables are upgraded to 10K lbs. I pretty much do like Ron does so that I don't have all the tow pieces on the front of the car when unhooked. I do remove some pins and replace with padlocks to slow the mount parts from growing legs in the campground. I do not trust the locks in place of the pins going down the road. FYI I used a locking pin on the MH mount and drilled another hole for a 5/8" bolt and that took the slop out of my stinger. The towbar stinger already had a second hole so all I had to do was drill the receiver to match.
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Reading through this, I am a bit confused about the Blue Ox. Does it have a cross bar between tow vehicle mounting points as I show here with my previous tow vehicle, a 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, the same with my 2006 Jeep Liberty?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3492009900_0e77eb8005_o.jpg)
If you don't have a cross bar to distribute lateral stress equally across the two mounting points on the tow vehicle, that would be very concerning to me with my Liberty, but not my previous MR2 Spyder. I say this because my Spyder had a hidden single cross bar bracket that was permanently bolted to the vehicle. My Liberty has just two wimpy individual brackets, each bolting independantly to the vehicle. Under severe lateral stress, it all goes to just one bracket. My saving grace is the cross bar on the Falcon-II tow bar.
2000 MR2 Spyder CLICK HERE To See It (http://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdfinst/1169-1.pdf) mounting bracket distributes lateral stress from "S" turns.
2006 Liberty CLICK HERE To See Them (http://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdfinst/521423-1.pdf) 2 independant mounting brackets relies completely on the Falcon-II cross bar to distribute lateral stress.
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I also hack sawed enough off of the stinger to get rid of the overhang and hopefully at the time (I thought) to change the moment arm enough to lessen the tailwagging effect some.
That made for a long afternoon, 2" chunk of steel is a lot to hack saw through. Now the stinger is long enough to "just" allow it to be folded and pin inserted without it hitting any part of the MH.
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Ron, the Blue Ox does not have a spreader bar you can see because the base plates on the car go all the way accross the front (out of site) acting as lateral support. The Roadmaster uses a spreader on the attachments points of the tow bar because, as you say, the base plates are two separate units. Both work similarly. My only concern is that kits are available as shown in earlier posts to put Blue Ox ends on Roadmaster bars and vicea versa. If you put Roadmaster ends on a Blue Ox bar which doesn't have a spreader, you could put a lot of side force on the Roadmaster base plates when you accelerated or braked the camper. I don't recall ever seeing anything about this in print, but it would worry me.
Jerry