Cruisers Forum

Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Volkemon on May 04, 2021, 07:51:03 pm

Title: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: Volkemon on May 04, 2021, 07:51:03 pm: Quote
Thats the good thing about the forum...I get to experience problems through helping others, and in turn prepare myself for the inevitable day that I have my own.

I said that on another thread about power... and now I got a problem!

This is for the OLDER campers...so it might not match 2007 and later. PLEASE be advised. tymote

Camper has been on shore power for several days. No issues.

Went to go empty the waste tanks and fill the propane and gasoline.

While dumping and rinsing (and rinsing...and rinsing...) I run the generator and use the AC.

Generator started right up.....THOUGHT I heard the click... no power. :beg Shut down, tested again... no power. (WH)

Went home, and started to diagnose. Plugged into shore power, all is well. Turn off the AC, start the generator, and click! No power. :help Well then!

Recalled people saying the transfer switch is behind the drivers seat in the B pillar. YES! There is a junction box there.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51159492420_382b47a90f_k.jpg)

But NO! Just wires. >( No switch. So the wires are likely straight from the generator. (nod)

I started the generator, and quickly lost shore power. Even heard the 'click back by the fridge... The transfer switch is back there. (exactly)

While I had the junction box open, I tested the voltage. Generator off, nothing. Generator running...127 Volt! (cheer)

So.... I know the generator is making power, I measured it AND the transfer switch is 'seeing' it. Just not getting to the main breaker..

I have the Parallax 7300 series power center. This '1970's brown' beauty.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51158383036_46e56faa09_k.jpg)

Dont bother looking up the installation instructions, it does NOT include the transfer switch. :cool

Remove the (4) torx head screws from the bottom of the outer cover. Take it and the lid off. Then you can remove (4) square drive screws, and pull the unit out.

Then the secret is revealed. I pulled the cover off already, and staged it for a good picture. ;)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51159168089_2fa43ce390_k.jpg)

Thats the item there.

With the generator running, AC OFF!! I applied a percussive diagnostic indicating pulse with a suitable tool. (Hit it with the screwdriver handle roflol )

YEAH!!! We got power. Switched back and forth between generator power and shore power, no more problems. FOR NOW... but repairs are top priority. Diagnostics complete. :)(:

I found the original replacement - an ATS-301

https://www.amazon.com/Parallax-ATS-301-Automatic-Transfer/dp/B00ODIMVSE/ref=asc_df_B00ODIMVSE/

BUT... we are leaving thursday for a festival. Need it sooner than they can get it here. And a few local calls indicates its a 'vintage' piece that needs to be ordered. So....

For $50 less, I got this one coming tomorrow -

https://www.amazon.com/Surge-Guard-41300-Automatic-Transfer/dp/B073PD854Q/

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61uIBQUirkL._AC_SY450_.jpg)

Little rewiring, and make a shelf for it and DONE. I will even leave enough slack in the wire to do an 'in the field' bypass should we need the generator power, and the transfer switch fails again.

Put it all back together again for now, as Mrs V is loading the camper and HATES exposed wires. :lol

HOPEFULLY part comes earlier tomorrow, and install goes easy. Stay tuned!
Title: Re: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: Ron Dittmer on May 05, 2021, 07:34:14 am: In our 2007 without a slideout, the power transfer switch is located directly above the generator inside the front dinette bench, mounted to the floor, sitting there all by itself. It is physically larger than the one you pictured. But like you say, our inverter/converter, power distribution panel, it's all different.
Title: Re: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: Volkemon on May 05, 2021, 01:05:23 pm: Quote from: Ron Dittmer on May 05, 2021, 07:34:14 am
In our 2007 without a slideout, the power transfer switch is located directly above the generator inside the front dinette bench, mounted to the floor, sitting there all by itself. It is physically larger than the one you pictured. But like you say, our inverter/converter, power distribution panel, it's all different.

You might get better life from it with the new springs softening its ride too! :)(:
Title: Re: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: Ron Dittmer on May 05, 2021, 03:58:42 pm: Quote from: Volkemon on May 05, 2021, 01:05:23 pm
Quote from: Ron Dittmer on May 05, 2021, 07:34:14 am
In our 2007 without a slideout, the power transfer switch is located directly above the generator inside the front dinette bench, mounted to the floor, sitting there all by itself. It is physically larger than the one you pictured. But like you say, our inverter/converter, power distribution panel, it's all different.

You might get better life from it with the new springs softening its ride too! :)(:
:)(:
Title: Re: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: Volkemon on May 07, 2021, 12:03:32 pm: OK! Got it in and working.

Step Zero!! Get some of these, you will need 3 -

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51163517396_19fee8eeb8_k.jpg)

The originals are 1/2", and too small.

First step, MAKE SURE ALL POWER IS OFF. I dont have an inverter, so disconnect shore power and turning off the 12V switch by the door did it.

**********************************************************************************************

Take the cover off the transfer switch, and remove all connectors. Release the ground wires. Loosen the locknuts on the clamp connectors, and slide them off the wires. Then remove the clamp connectors from the housing.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51164303874_82a37ecc4c_k.jpg)

See the red arrow? There is a sticker there that tells you which is generator and which is shore power. You can write on the jacket, or bend an 'S' into the ground wire of the shore power to indicate which is which. (Yellow arrow) If you are feeling artistic, you can bend a "G" in the generator ground. Or just remember its the one WITHOUT the 'S'. :lol

******************************************************************************************

(2) 5/16 (or 8mm) screws hold the transfer switch on. The forward one is behind the 12 fuse panel. Remove (2) 1/4" bolts from the panel, and carefully pull it out of the way. The blue wire on top WILL slip out from behind a metal plate. Its a pain. Be careful when re-assembling NOT to pinch it between the board and metal bracket.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51163761688_fc6d550098_k.jpg)

***************************************************************************************

The rear screw is behind the Main power breaker. Remove the black wire going to the main breaker. Remove the lock tab from the top of the breaker. Remove the breaker and move it to the side. Also remove the neutral wire that comes in with the black wire from the transfer switch. Now you can see the other screw.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51163762543_d0ca643726_k.jpg)

********************************************************************************

Now it can be removed, carefully feed the black and white wires (bottom) out the sleeved hole behind the breaker. DO NOT remove the plastic sleeve, we need it!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51163762453_5b232fa1b1_k.jpg)

************************************************************************************

I found that the cable clamps were too big to grip just the one wire. To ensure they had a tight hold, I cut a piece of the outer jacket and folded like so. This is inserted with the wire to take up space and tighten things up. (exactly)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51164623320_f7428f9466_k.jpg)

************************************************************************************

Looks like this when you are done. (Red arrow)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51164623095_f33c601ea9_k.jpg)

Note how close the clamp is to the relay. You have to start the nut with the clamp almost all the way out, then feed it in as you tighten. Careful locking it down, as there is VERY little room. pyho

***********************************************************************************

And wired up in the box! Things are a little tight, so be careful.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51164302919_cac8e84841_k.jpg)

Route the ground wires to the terminal (Green arrow) with attention that they do not touch anything else. Check twice!

Make SURE you have tightened the lugs well (blue arrows in box). They want 40 INCH pounds, or ~3 1/3 foot pounds. TIGHT. You want to deform the wire slightly.

Make sure the 'gap fillers' are in the clamps, and they are tightened. (Orange arrows, and the one blue arrow lower left. oOps..)

*****************************************************************

No picture.. I was getting REALLY hot in there with no AC. I did not notice that I needed the 3/4 clamps when I started, and when I got back the camper had warmed up a LOT in the 90+ degree heat. #:)

Feed the output (Load) wires from the switch through the plastic bushed hole used before. YOU NEED TO ALSO INCLUDE A GROUND WIRE as the housing is plastic, and does not ground through attachment. THIS IS IMPORTANT. There was not one before, but plenty of room in the plastic sleeve to add it.

(exactly) THIS IS IMPORTANT. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GROUND FROM THE TRANSFER SWITCH TO THE MAIN BOX!!! (exactly)

Terminate the black on the breaker, white to the neutral bus, and ground to the ground bus.

Now you are ready to test. The generator power engagement takes a LOT longer than the other switch. 45 seconds or so.

If it all tests out, reassemble and YAAAY!! You are done.

NOTES - The relay(s) activation is MUCH louder. And... when the AC is turned on while on generator power, the box does click. Not near as loud as the engagement CLICK, but noticeable. :-[ NOT too happy about that, will see how things hold up.

I may go ahead and spend the ~$150 and get an original style replacement before they are unavailable. I like the design much better... but that IS assuming they still build them the same way... (WH)

But I am confident that, if needed, I could do a field adjustment to hard wire it to generator should things fail again. (cheer)

Hope this helps someone later! :gang
Title: Re: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: donc13 on May 07, 2021, 04:03:39 pm: Volkemon,

I presume you had no shore power when you tested, but if you did... We're you able to watch the relay while the genset was running (loud click) and when you turned on the AC and got the not as loud click? I am wondering if the relay stuttered or flipped back to shore power when you turned on the AC?

As I am sure you well know stuttering or flipping back to shore power is not a good thing.

Don
Title: Re: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: Volkemon on May 07, 2021, 08:53:39 pm: Quote from: donc13 on May 07, 2021, 04:03:39 pm
Volkemon,

I presume you had no shore power when you tested, but if you did... We're you able to watch the relay while the genset was running (loud click) and when you turned on the AC and got the not as loud click? I am wondering if the relay stuttered or flipped back to shore power when you turned on the AC?

As I am sure you well know stuttering or flipping back to shore power is not a good thing.

Don

Well, the stuttering I would not want, and do not have, but it does switch back to shore power from generator fairly seamlessly now if the microwave is any indicator.

When power (shore or generator) is restored from an 'all off' condition, the microwave blinks.

With the old transfer relay, when the generator starts, shore power on, when it would change from shore to generator, the microwave would flash. Likewise on the stopping of the generator, restoring shore power. Flashing display.

I was so used to it I used it as a diagnostic indicator for transfer of power. :-D

With the new, when the generator starts, shore power on, it takes ~45 sec to engage. When it does switch, it is quick enough that the microwave does not flash. When the generator shuts off, the transition to shore power likewise is quick enough to not reset the microwave. Messed with my head at first until I used my new power monitor to tell me when shore power engaged.

I could not get close enough to the transfer switch and work the AC to determine where the noise came from. There are several relays in the box, not sure which is 'speaking' to me. Should it stutter, indeed I will address it further. For now, it works and I have a good 'field repair' ready should it fail in service. (exactly) But I do not like it faintly clicking. Says to me someone engineered it a weee bit too tight. >(

I will dissect the old transfer switch when I get home from this next festival. I REALLY like the way it works, and as i stated before I would spend the $$$ to get a replacement that is the same. Or maybe replace the relay if its just a contact issue. I like having one relay and no circuit board. Very reliable.
Title: Re: Transfer Switch diagnosis and replacement 2006 model 2350
Post by: WillLloyd on May 08, 2021, 06:57:33 am: For the newer coaches, 2910's anyhow, the ATS is located behind the drivers seat in the wall. This is the "after" shot. The "before" shot was ugly....