Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: CalCruiser on October 05, 2020, 11:56:40 am
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So, what wax, if any, is easy for fiberglass gelcoat?pyho
First time ever attempt, about 16 hrs of work:
Not liking the Seapower carnuba fiberglass cleaner-wax that I had in the garage from my sailing days. The end result looked splotchy , kind of hazy and uneven ( typical for one step cleaner- waxes?)
Also not liking the 3M Marine Scotchgaurd liquid wax. It hazes almost instantly, so it must be applied to 2’x2’ sections and wiped off with a microfiber cloth almost immediately. It seems like 2 random orbit polishers would be required because it dries too fast to change bonnets.
I ended up compounding the entire rv using a random orbit polisher and Seapower , then applying a coat of 3M Marine Scotchgaurd by hand. Pleased with the results, but not with either product. It looks about the same as when I pay Tony the detailer $200 to do it, but I didn’t have to wait a month for him to return from 🇮🇹Mexico . And it sure was a lot of work.
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I use a product called "The Solution". Been using it for years. It's one of those waterless cleaners. I still wash it first. You spray on The Solution and wipe it off. I dont like it on the glass. Makes the task quick and it shines like snot on a barn door.
Cheers :)(:
Barry T
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I can relate to you CalCruiser because I have been there and done that with our first rig (CLICK HERE) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157621472936441) which was gelcoat and no paint. It required lots of work only to get mediocre results. Barry T's product sounds interesting.
That is why I recommended to Ginny in the intro post, if she is considering lower body paint or no paint, it is wise to consider ordering her new PC in plain white paint only for the house portion to match the van color. Then add PC graphics to dress it up. Painting just the house plain white to match should be very affordable and so much easier to maintain a pure white painted PC that will be parked outside indefinitely.
Also save money and delete the Diamond Shield product. The Ford factory OEM white paint on the van surely doesn't need it. Use the money you saved on the fancy full body paint job and Diamond Shield to purchase other upgrades.
An all white PC will reflect most of the sun's direct heat. On a sunny day in a parking lot, place your hand on a white car, and then on a black car. You will quickly understand the difference a white painted PC can make. We always schedule our desert region trips to avoid the hottest time of year so we generally don't battle extreme heat. Every full body paint job does have an unpainted white fiberglass roof (as shown here) which addresses the worst, but our gray-painted sides can still warm up from the sun.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/6174/6173971120_990f0097fa_z.jpg)
Regardless of all that, we have no regrets getting the full body paint job. 13 years so far and our PC still looks like brand new. But keep in-mind that we "garage" it when not using it. It washes and waxes nicely and looks great afterward. If kept outside all the time, I imagine it wouldn't look too pretty today. I have seen some 13 year old PCs being sold with full body paint that didn't hold up well. Most of the "ugly" is related to the Diamond Shield darkening & cracking, and also the clear coat failing.
Here is a section of sun-damaged Diamond Shield like clear film that GM placed in two places on the rear deck lid of our Saturn Sky. Diamond Shield can get this ugly being out in hot sun long enough. Removing these two small pieces was "Pure Torture". I could not imagine removing so much off a PC.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50073596108_6250e4bace_z.jpg)
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Cal cruiser... I feel your pain. I have yet to find a wax that will last in the southwest sun. Best I’ve ever gotten lasted about 5 months, actually less in real effective service. Kept in the garage I get 6-7 months. Cheap products I get 2/3 months at best. Full body paint is nice but if your unit sits outside the southwest sun can make short work of the clear cost. Wasn’t that long ago someone posted a pic of a PC they were considering that the clear coat was shot. Probably at a minimum 10 grand to remove and repaint. Heck a good complete car paint job is 12-15 grand.
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I have been pleased with this product. https://www.amazon.com/Jescar-Power-Polymer-Paint-Sealant/dp/B076ZWMD2G/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2L237ZNK6RORK&dchild=1&keywords=menzerna+sealant&qid=1602021584&sprefix=menzerna+sea%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A2FYWYS5HRG3VU&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTlRGNFNRTDBDUzFIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODA0MjQ5MkgwM05OQkYwSDFPSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDA5Mjc4M0JXVjZEVkQ2NzZYVSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= (https://www.amazon.com/Jescar-Power-Polymer-Paint-Sealant/dp/B076ZWMD2G/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2L237ZNK6RORK&dchild=1&keywords=menzerna+sealant&qid=1602021584&sprefix=menzerna+sea%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A2FYWYS5HRG3VU&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTlRGNFNRTDBDUzFIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODA0MjQ5MkgwM05OQkYwSDFPSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDA5Mjc4M0JXVjZEVkQ2NzZYVSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
It is not a wax but a polymer sealant. I use it on our cars as well as the PC.
I use a random orbit buffer to apply the sealant and a microfiber towel to wipe off and polish. It is easy to apply and polish but there is a lot of surface area on a 2552 so it is not my favorite past time.
Not sure why but just noticed the price has gone up considerably since the last time I ordered it.
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Fandj..... this is a new product to me. How has it held up? I’m constantly searching for something that will hold up to the desert sun.
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Coming from the old school, for many years I relied exclusively on high carnuba content paste wax for my vehicles. It was quite a job to polish the wax residue off after it dried. While it certainly enhanced the shine it stopped rain beading within a few days/weeks. As newer products become available in the market I tried some of the polymer based sealants and found them much easier to apply and appeared to last longer.
We live in the southwestern part of Virginia which gets its share of both rain and sun. While I am able to park my cars in the garage my PC lives outside 24/7. Having travelled in the southwestern high desert areas i know the intensity of the sun is much greater than here at home. The other thing to note is I don’t have a way of actually measuring the effective life of any waxes/sealants. Take my comments as purely subjective based primarily rain beading, shine, and slickness of the finish. While wax seems to disappear after a month or so the Power Lock polymer sealant appears to be providing some protection for several months up to maybe a year. I have used this product for five plus years.
There may be (?) some of the even newer ceramic coatings that provide better protections I just don’t have any experience with them.
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Dry Wash and Guard is an awesome product, I think it is the original waterless car wash. Been using it for decades now. Easy to use as directed. Do small areas at a time and nearly effortless. I always have some in the coach and will pass the time shining up an area or section. Surprising how dirty it can be and not harm the surface. Takes the pain out of having to do the whole thing all at once. Kinda like painting one side of the house each year.
Dougn
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Fandj. Thank you, I know it’s a crap shoot with the desert sun but it’s a product I haven’t tried so I think I’ll give it a go. It can’t be any worse than many of the others I’ve tried.
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Fandj ... reading the reviews on the sealant. It sounds as if I first need to use a rubbing compound or gel coat restoration prior which makes sense. Then after applying the sealant it seems I need to wax over the sealant? If that’s the case I’m not so sure I want to undertake the task. I’m a long way from my 20’s in a three hard step project. Did you find you needed to add wax over the sealant?
I’m already dreading the first step but I know it has to be done.
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Applying any waxes or sealants will yield a slicker and shinier surface if embedded dirt and oxidized paint is removed first. As to applying wax over the sealant I don’t do that other than I typically will use a wash and wax product such as https://www.amazon.com/Optimum-NRWW2012Q-Rinse-Wash-Wax/dp/B00GG9FB8U/ref=sr_1_48?crid=35OKCTVOPK1EC&dchild=1&keywords=wash+and+wax+car+wash&qid=1602362822&sprefix=Wash+and%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-48 (https://www.amazon.com/Optimum-NRWW2012Q-Rinse-Wash-Wax/dp/B00GG9FB8U/ref=sr_1_48?crid=35OKCTVOPK1EC&dchild=1&keywords=wash+and+wax+car+wash&qid=1602362822&sprefix=Wash+and%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-48) for washing in between applications of the Power Lock. Don’t know how much that Optimum wax helps but since I am washing anyway any protection I get is a bonus. I also find this product useful to take on extended RVing trips as it can be used to remove light dirt without the need for rinsing.
As to rubbing compound I have never had to do use them. I started using the sealant not long after we picked up our PC from the factory so the paint started out in good shape.
I have used this product on the hood, windshield, and front end to remove embedded dirt occasionally. It has also worked well on our cars. [size=78%]https://www.amazon.com/Nanoskin-AS-019-AutoScrub-Grade-Sponge/dp/B00CUAWJ6G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25KG7DE2YO00J&dchild=1&keywords=nanoskin&qid=1602361175&s=automotive&sprefix=Nano%2Cautomotive%2C189&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Nanoskin-AS-019-AutoScrub-Grade-Sponge/dp/B00CUAWJ6G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25KG7DE2YO00J&dchild=1&keywords=nanoskin&qid=1602361175&s=automotive&sprefix=Nano%2Cautomotive%2C189&sr=1-1)[/size]
The NanoSkin sponge is relatively easy to use and makes a significant difference in smoothness I tried clay bars previously but I found I like the Nano Sponge better.
No doubt if your paint is badly oxidized it will benefit from being buffed with a rubbing/polishing compound. I have thought should I ever have to use these compounds I probably would seek out a professional as I may end up being too aggressive and damage the paint.
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Fandj... I’m not concerned with the rubbing compound. Any oxidation remover is just another name for rubbing compound., it’s just a matter of the cut. Years back I did a couple of boats I owned. I’ve always done it by hand with great results. In this case I don’t need to do the painted section, just the gel coat but I’m certainly not looking forward to it, especially the front cap. Once the weather cools down I’ll give it a shot, we’re still on the triple digit 104-105 next week so it will be a bit. Thank you for the info. I’ll keep my fingers crossed and hope it does the trick.
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Years back I did a couple of boats I owned. I’ve always done it by hand with great results. In this case I don’t need to do the painted section, just the gel coat but I’m certainly not looking forward to it, especially the front cap.
I have been reading good things about Meguiars 50.
I'll give you a quart of Seapower the next time you are up in the Ventura area LOL
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When I do it, I simply use McGuires or Mothers Carnuba cream. Easy on, easy off.
Easier yet is the Detailer who will do it for $300 once a year...... Looks even better when he does it.
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Will , I’d gladly pay $300 but you won’t get it done out here for anywhere near that.
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I am a fan of sealants on the fiberglass and carnabu wax on the cab. I use a product call Rejex. You can get it from Amazon. I find that sealants work great especially on the fiberglass above the cab, it makes it much easier to brush/spray off bugs. There are many good sealants out there for cars and I am sure they are all effective.
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Mike, thanks, I’ll look into rejex as well. I’ve tried so many products for major companies like 3m with little success. But I have never tried a individual sealant . Many products claim they remove oxidation and protect all in one which of course falls short. Which rejex product do you use, I see they have many variables as well.
For a while I had a cabinet so full of diff waxes etc that I could open my own store. I’ve given most away that failed me. For my cars I have had ok success with duragloss but they don’t sit out in the desert sun.
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I just use the 16 oz Rejex High Gloss Protective Finish (25.99). Steps I do on my 2100:
1. Wash with any good car wash product.
2. Clay bar entire RV.
3. Maguiar's carnabu paste/wax polish on the cab.
4. Rejex on all the fiberglass.
Since I have been doing this for a while, my fiberglass and cab are in pretty good shape and do not need heavy polishing or rubbing compounds. I rent cold indoor winter storage and it just sits in the driveway during spring/summer/fall. I usually have an issue with hard water from my sprinkler system getting on the finish during the summer and the Rejex minimizes any damage and makes it easier to remove hard water spots. I am not promoting Rejex to any degree as much as I am promoting using sealants on the fiberglass. The only reason I don't use the sealant on the entire vehicle is cost. Maquiar's is much cheaper and works just fine each season for the cab. The clay bar is the key to any finish work. I also use the Rejex on the wheels. Works great there.
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mike, Thanks Ill do some research on the rejex. I need to find some info on how it holds up in the desert sun.
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CalCruiser. ... I bought some of the Jescar power lock sealant to give a try. I need to remove oxidation first, then Ill try using the power lock sealant and I have so many containers of 3m etc that I'll use one of them up to finish it. I have no idea how it will work but I'm hoping the sealant may help. Its finally going to be under 100 degrees this weekend so I am reluctantly going to start Saturday.
Some days I wish mine had full body paint, others I'm not so sure. Theres a 2012 class A where I store mine with full body paint that the clear coat is pealing all over. I finally had a chance to speak with the owner. He said the entire coach would need to be wet sanded. I didn't pry into the cost but I do know local body shops charge a min of 150 an hour for RV work.
I guess there's no easy answer other than if your able to store it inside like Ron.
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Will , I’d gladly pay $300 but you won’t get it done out here for anywhere near that.
I just had a buff and wax done at a fiberglass shop here in Colorado. $600.
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Don, I only got one quote but it was 850. Even at 600 if I have to get it done twice a year I’m not sure I want to spend that.
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I too have my 5th wheel detailed in FL, but I've been happy with Protect All on the PC - Just my 2C
Jack
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Finish Restoration?
I stumbled on this thread and am encouraged to learn others are gaining in the constant battle with the layered finish spattered on Phoenix Cruisers.
I appreciate the gesture and good intentions of PC. But, after reading reports from many others, I really wonder if the factory clear coat finish is more trouble than what it is worth.
I purchased the unit knowing the finish was blistered and peeling. After taking possession of the vehicle China Flu became and issue and I elected to virtually abandoned it in the desert sun for a few months. Its purchase coincided with the travel moratorium and covered storage was unavailable until additional units could be constructed. Although it was thoroughly waxed before being stored, I understand the fiberglass portions of the unit now looks like a snake shedding its skin.
What to do next? The unit is virtually factory new. With 10,000 miles total use, it is mechanically pristine with new tires and batteries. Ready to go anywhere back in February, the restrictions made travel an option with too many consequences. And now, I expect the commercial camping parks and their exclusive policies will probably reject entry because of its blemished appearance.
What are the alternative options for the finish?
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Tail dragger . your description of a snake peeking its skin is pretty spot on. It’s what I saw on a class a with full body paint. He told me the body shops said they would wet sand it. I see on line there are clear coat removal products. Different brands that you spray or wipe on then hose off. How well they work I have no idea. If they are not to expensive it might be worth a try.
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Finish Restoration?
I stumbled on this thread and am encouraged to learn others are gaining in the constant battle with the layered finish spattered on Phoenix Cruisers.
I appreciate the gesture and good intentions of PC. But, after reading reports from many others, I really wonder if the factory clear coat finish is more trouble than what it is worth.
I purchased the unit knowing the finish was blistered and peeling. After taking possession of the vehicle China Flu became and issue and I elected to virtually abandoned it in the desert sun for a few months. Its purchase coincided with the travel moratorium and covered storage was unavailable until additional units could be constructed. Although it was thoroughly waxed before being stored, I understand the fiberglass portions of the unit now looks like a snake shedding its skin.
What to do next? The unit is virtually factory new. With 10,000 miles total use, it is mechanically pristine with new tires and batteries. Ready to go anywhere back in February, the restrictions made travel an option with too many consequences. And now, I expect the commercial camping parks and their exclusive policies will probably reject entry because of its blemished appearance.
What are the alternative options for the finish?
Does your PC have full body paint or just lower body paint? If just lower body paint, is it the decals that are peeling? If full body paint, is it just the diamond shield on the front cap and so forth that's peeling?
I live in the high desert in western Colorado and prior to that, in the high Prairie near Denver. My PC has lower body paint and thus decals. It is not covered when stored, just an outside storage lot. The decals are fading and splitting. The front cap was dulling but the lower body paint is fine. I just had it buffed and waxed by a local fiberglass repair body shop. It looks brand new, except for the decals.
So just wondering what exactly where and what you see peeling like a snake?
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Don, I’m betting it’s in low desert. Wait to hear but my guess. There is no comparison from high to low desert conditions. I’ve lived in both. I love the low desert but the sun exposure in the low desert to high is like comparing apples and oranges. I’ll be interested to see where it’s located. I’ve seen it peeling on cars coastal as well but not in the numbers I see out here. The only way to save it here is under some kind of cover. I sure wish I had it for mine. There are places that offer indoor storage but at 400 plus a month it’s just too much for my budget . I keep looking for places with a cover to park under but they rarely become available.
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I can offer a better description of what has me concerned. Based on terminology I have learned from reading about the seemingly common problem from other PC owners, the culprit is the "clear coat" layer of epoxy(?) applied as a finish coat to the surface of the body paint and decals. The problem is limited to the fiberglass area. The entire periphery of the camper shell is peeling. Front, Sides, and Back. The factory FORD paint covering the doors, hood, and quarter panels doesn't include the coating and therefore isn't peeling.
I have the unit under cover currently. Hopefully, being shielded from the intensity of direct sun and will offer protection. Those accommodations were not immediately available and during the period the unit was unshaded any existing blistering doubled in size and scope.
The mottled surface of the camper shell now warrants some extraordinary effort, in order to make it presentable. Applying wax before it was parked didn't protect the troublesome coating. I am curious about the solutions suggested by others responding to this message thread. One measure was extreme by the sense of normalcy which dictates all effort be directed to salvage what remains. And, that was aggressive polishing or whatever to remove the superficial layer of epoxy.
I am aware of the range of options available those times when money is no object. Aircraft fuselages are decorated and coated with surfaces that are basically impervious to weather and retain the "wet" look of freshly applied paint is one example. Although available, I don't feel like choosing that option. I'm wondering if there is a known method to help expedite the peeling and obtain a uniform, unmottled camper shell that I can quit lifting blisters from with my fingernail and focus on reinvigorating the paint with surface treatments.
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Taildragger,
The paint should not do that. It sounds like a defective paint job.
I would call PC, ask them why a 3 year old unit is having the issue you describe and if they are willing to have it repainted under warranty. I would also ask for the name and phone number of the shop that painted it. PC does not paint the units, they have one or more body shops they use to do the painting. Carol at PC can tell you exactly which shop did the painting on your unit. You can ask PC or the paint shop if they have other similar complaints on jobs from that shop. Likewise if the paint shop will repair it as a warranty item.
Good Luck!
Don
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Taildrager.... theres a thread on IRV2 right now titled “got sick and tired of looking at flaking seal coat”. I have not read it so I have no idea if there’s any useful info there that may help you but it might be worth a look?
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Excellent Tip!
Lots of good information there. I definitely appreciate the Heads UP.