Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: CalCruiser on April 29, 2020, 10:38:13 pm
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This quick and easy mod protected the generator while my 2350 sat unattended at the storage lot during the 6 week long emergency stay at home order. Before leaving it I cut the fuel line and installed a manual fuel shut-off valve between the carburetor and fuel pump using a pair of stainless steel hose clamps.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mnp-12-0035?
To prevent the costly and stupid Onan 4000 no start carburetor failure problem, commonly caused by a gummed up fuel shut-off solenoid in the float bowl, simply close the manual fuel shut-off valve while the generator is running and let it stall. When it’s time to put the generator back in service open the valve and press the prime switch for about 45 seconds, then it’s good to go.
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I am going to put this on my "to do" list! Ever since I started using this technique when shutting off my mowers and snow blowers, I have not had any carburetor issues. With a quick google search, I see that Walmart also offers the shut-off valve on-line.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Motion-Pro-1-4-Inline-Fuel-On-Off-Valve-12-0035/255432201?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1421&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=42423897272&wl4=pla-51320962143&wl5=9022072&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112562755&wl11=online&wl12=255432201&veh=sem&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7qn1BRDqARIsAKMbHDbpzN3lN9qoOFc-6CCARrWczCrryQ3DPbifyk8S19gjvSdKfztojyUaAtx4EALw_wcB
It costs a little more, but I can get it by early next week.
I might have a few questions related to the installation once I look closer at the generator and decide where to cut the gas line.
Thanks for the post.
JJ
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Good suggestion. Thanks for sharing. I just add stabilizer to gas tank, run generator and when done drain generator carburetor using the drain screw. I place a cloth under drain to catch fuel.
Ron S
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I used stabil etc but my carb still went south. There is an upside, an after market replacement carb only costs $50 and takes all of 30 mins max to replace. These carbs are used in some John Deere mowers etc so generic carbs are readily available.
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Here is the valve I installed. I agree the metal is better then the plastic valve that PC sent me. Don't forget the clamps
dave
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Thanks CalCruiser ! Thats a simple and effective idea.
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CalCruiser
Next time you invoke the shutoff switch and the generator stalls try to drain the carburetor with the screw just below it. It would be interesting to see if any gas drains.
I run my Honda snowblower till it dies and still get some gas out of the carburetor when I unscrew it’s drain screw.
Thanks for sharing.
Ron S
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Question on installing a cutoff valve in the gas supply line.
Seams to me closing the valve while the generator is running would pull a vacuum on the carb and supply line shutting down the generator without getting all the gas out of the carb and line and the remaining gas could still gum up the carb? Posibiliy the gas could start to evaporate due to the lower pressure but I doubt there would be enough time for it all to get out before the generator stops. Perhaps a tee allowing air into the line when the block valve is closed would help get the gas out?
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Hello
The float bowl on the carburetor is vented to atmosphere. The venturi effect pulls the fuel up through the siphon tube, if the float bowl wasn't vented it wouldn't allow the gas to flow up the siphon tube...
Lance
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Lance, does that siphon effect translate to say you should be able to burn off the gas after turning things off at a switch?
We had the switch installed, they ran her until she stopped, she sat in Texas heat for four months, and she won't start again. We eventually have to get her serviced (anyone know an honest RV repair north of Seattle?)
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Not exactly sure what your asking. If you install the valve, they were talking about in the supply gas line to the generator and let it run until it stalls it will drain the fuel from the float bowl. Sounds like a good way to get your generator ready for storage.. As for how a carburetor works, it uses a venturi, a restriction in the inlet air, which speeds up the velocity of the air, the siphion tube sticks up slightly into the high speeds air. The high velocity air passing the siphon tube creates a low pressure area as it passes the siphon tube which pulls the gas up from the float bowl into the engine. So if you use a switch to control the generator it doesn't do anything to get the fuel out of the float bowl and prevent it from gumming up the carburetor.
Not sure if this helps but if you have any other questions PM me and we can discuss it.
Lance
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Not exactly sure what your asking.
Not sure if this helps but if you have any other questions PM me and we can discuss it.
Lance
Lance---just trying to be of help if I can. 2 Frazzled was referring to the cutoff valve as "the switch". For complete understanding of her issue, take a look at her original post on this subject which is not in the "General Discussion" category but is in "Tips and Tricks", posted under the topic "Generator gas line shut off switch". It's the first post in the category.
Holly--if you shut the valve off at the fuel line and run the engine until it dies, you should burn MOST of the fuel out of the carburetor bowl--but not necessarily every bit. It is common for a small amount of gas to remain in the bowl after the engine dies and everything stabilizes. Regarding the "no start" condition: since in your later posts on your problem, you say that you've confirmed that you have fuel in the carb, air pulsing out of the generator exhaust as you crank, and spark at the generator plug wire, there may not be much more to offer regarding the problem. You have said you cannot get the spark plug out--but that would be the next most logical thing. You are likely at the point that visiting a service center is your next step.
Mike
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I installed a fuel valve in mine a few years ago, while replacing my ruined carb. I thought I didn't really need to exercise the generator every month, if I just used the drain screw to drain the carb before storage, any time I used it. But after it sat unused for a couple of years, I discovered that it wouldn't start when I needed it during a power outage at a Nashville park.
I think the real reason you need a shutoff valve is that, after you think you've drained the carb, fuel slowly leaks through the fuel pump and fills it back up again, anyway.
By the way, after turning off the valve and running the generator until it dies, you should still use the drain screw to drain the last bit of fuel from the carb bowl.
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I installed a fuel valve in mine a few years ago, while replacing my ruined carb. I thought I didn't really need to exercise the generator every month, if I just used the drain screw to drain the carb before storage, any time I used it. But after it sat unused for a couple of years, I discovered that it wouldn't start when I needed it during a power outage at a Nashville park.
I think the real reason you need a shutoff valve is that, after you think you've drained the carb, fuel slowly leaks through the fuel pump and fills it back up again, anyway.
By the way, after turning off the valve and running the generator until it dies, you should still use the drain screw to drain the last bit of fuel from the carb bowl.
Good input thanks. I will check my carb bowl next time to see if gas is in it. I drain it with the drain screw also.
Does anyone know if there is an hour meter on the generator? I have a remote hour meter on the start panel, but could not find any on or around the generator.
Ron S
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I installed a fuel valve in mine a few years ago, while replacing my ruined carb. I thought I didn't really need to exercise the generator every month, if I just used the drain screw to drain the carb before storage, any time I used it. But after it sat unused for a couple of years, I discovered that it wouldn't start when I needed it during a power outage at a Nashville park.
I think the real reason you need a shutoff valve is that, after you think you've drained the carb, fuel slowly leaks through the fuel pump and fills it back up again, anyway.
By the way, after turning off the valve and running the generator until it dies, you should still use the drain screw to drain the last bit of fuel from the carb bowl.
Good input thanks. I will check my carb bowl next time to see if gas is in it. I drain it with the drain screw also.
Does anyone know if there is an hour meter on the generator? I have a remote hour meter on the start panel, but could not find any on or around the generator.
Ron S
There is not an hour meter on the generator itself.
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I checked my generator for monthly start. I did not get any gas out of carburetor from the drain screw before running generator. It started right up and ran fine.
Blue Blaze your generator may have had other issues because it was not run for couple years. Onan recommends monthly starts to maintain it in top condition.
Ron S
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I checked my generator for monthly start. I did not get any gas out of carburetor from the drain screw before running generator. It started right up and ran fine.
Blue Blaze your generator may have had other issues because it was not run for couple years. Onan recommends monthly starts to maintain it in top condition.
Ron S
Maybe it's just my fuel pump that leaks through to the carb. It seems to work fine since I installed the shutoff valve. At least I haven't needed any more carbs. All mechanical things benefit from regular usage, but I don't have to start my mower every month during the off season, so long as I use Stabil in the tank and drain the carb when I put away it away for the season. Ought to be good enough for a generator. Sorry, I'm to lazy to back the RV out of the garage every month just to start the genny.
By the way, are they not putting an hour meter on the Onan starting panel inside the coach anymore? That's where mine is.
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I am with you on running the generator. A pain for me because I have to take the battery with me to storage, start the engine then run generator. If it is nice out I will go for a ride. We have yet to use it camping.
Here is what Onan says: Exercising a genset drives off moisture, re-lubri- cates the engine, replaces stale fuel and removes oxides from electrical contacts. The result is better starting, more reliable operation and longer engine life.
I do have an hour meter on the remote panel. However, it does not work. Can’t find just the meter or one that fits. Have to buy the whole used panel at about $55. Maybe Carol at PC has one?.?? Have to call her.
Michigan State campgrounds open June 22. Can’t wait.
Ron S
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I installed a fuel valve in mine a few years ago, while replacing my ruined carb. I thought I didn't really need to exercise the generator every month, if I just used the drain screw to drain the carb before storage, any time I used it. But after it sat unused for a couple of years, I discovered that it wouldn't start when I needed it during a power outage at a Nashville park.
I think the real reason you need a shutoff valve is that, after you think you've drained the carb, fuel slowly leaks through the fuel pump and fills it back up again, anyway.
By the way, after turning off the valve and running the generator until it dies, you should still use the drain screw to drain the last bit of fuel from the carb bowl.
Jon
I presume you opened the fuel shutoff valve when you tried to start it, but did you prime the carb bowl first and after trying to start, was there fuel in the bowl (screw on bottom of carb).
There shouldn't be a problem starting after a few years being unused as long as you have the magic 3 things, fuel, air and spark.
Doesn't mean the generator portion will be happy, but the engine should start. Make sure the choke rod moves properly.
Just my thoughts.
Don
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I installed a fuel valve in mine a few years ago, while replacing my ruined carb. I thought I didn't really need to exercise the generator every month, if I just used the drain screw to drain the carb before storage, any time I used it. But after it sat unused for a couple of years, I discovered that it wouldn't start when I needed it during a power outage at a Nashville park.
I think the real reason you need a shutoff valve is that, after you think you've drained the carb, fuel slowly leaks through the fuel pump and fills it back up again, anyway.
By the way, after turning off the valve and running the generator until it dies, you should still use the drain screw to drain the last bit of fuel from the carb bowl.
Jon
I presume you opened the fuel shutoff valve when you tried to start it, but did you prime the carb bowl first and after trying to start, was there fuel in the bowl (screw on bottom of carb).
There shouldn't be a problem starting after a few years being unused as long as you have the magic 3 things, fuel, air and spark.
Doesn't mean the generator portion will be happy, but the engine should start. Make sure the choke rod moves properly.
Just my thoughts.
Don
Oh yeah, I could get it to start by priming it, but it wouldn't keep running. I was pretty P.O.'d to find a bunch of gunk in the float bowl when I took apart, since I knew I'd drained the carb the last time I'd used it. That's what prompted me to add the cutoff valve.
I left it sitting in kerosene overnight, and blew it out with carb cleaner, but still couldn't find the clog. It still wouldn't run. The only thing that fixed it was a new carb. Hopefully the shutoff valve will prevent the new carb from being ruined the next time I need it,
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Blue, I went thru the same and even after cleaning , soaking in sea foam, holding my breath, praying , etc it still wouldn’t run without surging. I spent $50 for a new carb and was done with it. Looking back I spent half that on cleaners not to mention all the frustration and time spent. In time when this one starts to cause surging I won’t bother fighting it and just spend the $50 and the 30 mins to change it out and be done with it.
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I might just spring for a spare carb to have one around. For sure it will always run fine in the driveway, then fail out in the boonies.
If I have a spare, I'll likely never need it....Lucky's Logic rule #1.
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Lucky, one hint for an easy change out should you ever need to is buy the smallest tube of High Tack gasket sealant. The gasket sits vertical so of course as you slide the carb in place the gasket falls out. I use just a couple tiny spots of the high tack to hold the gasket in place for install. Saves some frustration.
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Is this the correct carburetor replacement ? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KQQ6FD9/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A16MP6R2VB2XI3&psc=1
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I’ll post the one I used when I get home . I’m up in the mountains for the weekend. The one I used was right at $50
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Thanks
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The carb I used was The Annpee Carburetor Carb for Onan Cummins 146-0785 RV Generator KY Series A042P619 Replaces 146-0803. It goes for $46 plus tax on Amazon. There are several out there, here's another on Amazon for $44.
Jinkaye 146-0785 Annpee Carb for Onan 146-0785 146-0803 Generator Carburetor KY Series A042P619.
They all come with gaskets and possibly a filter you won't need due to this carb fits some lawn tractors as well. After install my gen started immediately and has run great for over a year now. They are so readily available I won't keep an extra on hand when you can get one in couple days from amazon. That and you know well in advance when they start getting hard to start.
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The carb I used was The Annpee Carburetor Carb for Onan Cummins 146-0785 RV Generator KY Series A042P619 Replaces 146-0803. It goes for $46 plus tax on Amazon. There are several out there, here's another on Amazon for $44.
Jinkaye 146-0785 Annpee Carb for Onan 146-0785 146-0803 Generator Carburetor KY Series A042P619.
They all come with gaskets and possibly a filter you won't need due to this carb fits some lawn tractors as well. After install my gen started immediately and has run great for over a year now. They are so readily available I won't keep an extra on hand when you can get one in couple days from amazon. That and you know well in advance when they start getting hard to start.
Link - https://www.amazon.com/Jinkaye-Carburetor-A042P619-Generator-146-0785/dp/B01N6I92K0
I will be keeping one on hand. I dont want to be waiting days, it will probably fail when I need it NOW. (exactly) THANKS!!
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Volk. even if you never end top needing it the cost is low enough that it's not an issue having an extra. . Get your self the smallest tube of high tack gasket sealer. Just a tiny spot will hold the vertical gasket while you slide the carb in place. It can be done without but with some unwanted frustration.
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I have not run my V10 or Onan since August 2018. I should video what happens. The gas in the main tank is that old, and I don't add Stabil. It is a bit "testy" even for me. I hope indoor control-temp storage will have helped enough to avoid some extra work.
Late 2018 and 2019 were vacations spent in The Holy Land and Egypt, and watching our grand daughters weekly prevented RV trips, so it has been 22 months since running our PC.
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Ron , one benefit you have that may help is your gas. The gas were forced to use in Ca is an added issue . They claim it burns cleaner but I have found in my trips with cars, motorcycles and the PC my mileage goes up as soon as I get out of state. We notice it immediately in that the gas out of Ca even smells different.
In any case if your carb is an issue there’s a inexpensive fix.