Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Engineerlt on April 04, 2020, 02:05:42 pm
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Well I decided that during this social distancing time I would upgrade the suspension. I did the usual upgrades, Hellwig sway bars, Bilstein shocks and a Road Master Reflex steering stabilizer. I was surprised at the condition of the shocks and steering stabilizer with only 27,000 miles on the rig. The steering stabilizer's valving was wore out, it moves 1 inch without any resistance in either direction. The shocks also were in bad shape, one front shock had lost its charge and had very little resistance when compressed or extended and one back shock had lost its charge and wouldn't extend after being compressed, so no more gas charge.
I understand that Ford sells these Cutaway chassis not knowing what they will be used for, so they just install basic suspension components. I would of however thought that the steering stabilizer and shocks would have stood-up longer than 27,000 miles or 2.5 years...... I just wanted to get this out there, and let you know what I discovered, figure if you are thinking about doing suspension components you can see what I found and this may help you make a decision.
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Ford does modify what they factory install if the buyer orders with one of the various "packages" such as Ambulance Prep package or "Motorhome Prep" package.
My 2014 chassis (which made a 2015 PC) came with the prep package which includes max GAWR for the front end.
Obviously no idea if they did or didn't do that on your chassis.
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One might think PC would order their chassis with a proper suspension...or have it done locally.
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One might think PC would order their chassis with a proper suspension...or have it done locally.
As the owner, you would have to do that.
A manufacturer doing that opens up a BIG bag of problems... the cutaways are sold by Ford as a 'federally approved' package that is deemed safe. ANY changes to suspension ( springs, shocks, swaybars) by the OEM (Phoenix Cruiser in this case) most likely would need to be re-certified by the appropriate federal testing agency to get federally approved. No manufacturer approval from the feds, and insurance becomes prohibitive/unavailable. Cant run a business like that today. :beg Takes time and several test units to be submitted for crash testing, etc.... $$$.
And honestly... the sale is over before the owner gets to understand the shortcomings, so why add $$ to the sale price?
As the 'end user' we as owners can do whatever we want to the chassis and drivetrain. ( Not saying that you would be immune from prosecution later in an accident should your work be at fault, but you would not have the same 'hoops' to jump through that OEM 's do to get it registered after your changes) (and I imagine CA residents might have a lesson or two about the smog testing hurdles.. (nod) )
I know I risk sounding like Ron and slides, but putting front springs that were the proper rate and height for my application worked wonders. Instead of putting 'band aids' on the other systems, I just changed the incorrect one. Night and day difference in ride and handling. If I want to gymkhana or road race it maybe more will be needed. roflol
Though I would of thought that the stock steering stabilizer and shocks would have stood-up longer than 27,000 miles or 2.5 years also. Looks like they were engineered for a 2 year warranty. (exactly)
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My thinking was more that PC could order their chassis with adequate suspension from Ford. I guess that is not possible tho.
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My thinking was more that PC could order their chassis with adequate suspension from Ford. I guess that is not possible tho.
Dunno. You would think they had the whole 'RV Cutaway' idea perfected by now. Maybe they do, and only offer a chassis that assumes one will have a cabover bed, and more weight to the front?
So with the B+, or Compact-C :lol on that chassis, the springing is 'wrong'. And there is not enough of a market for Ford to make that special setup to submit for testing, etc? (WH)
I was intrigued that they had to use special bushings to get the camber right. That alone is sorta an indicator (to me) engineered designs are being 'pushed'.
But dont take my word as ANY sort of authority on this, I have no involvement with the design/OEM part of the industry. Just broke and fixed a lot of their products. roflol
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At 35,000 miles, my Koni-RV shocks were toast. So reading Engineerit's story is not surprising.
I replaced my non-lifetime warrantee Koni-RV shocks with heavy duty Bilstein life-time warranty shocks. So the next time this happens, I hope to take advantage of their warranty.
My heavy duty front Roadmaster stabilizer bar bushings got some play in them during the same period of time and miles. I only needed to tighten up the end links a bit to make it perfect again. Roadmaster includes indicators when the end-links need tightening. They are "U" brackets that are mounted like a washer in the wrong place. When the end links develop play, they rattle against the supporting bracket, indicating the bar needs tightening. It's kind of an ingenious idea.
The "U" rattle-bracket is hardened steel and is black in color, mounted on the bottom of the end link. You can imagine the noise it makes when loosely vibrating against the adjacent main alloy bracket.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3335/3507692971_25ec1602b9_z.jpg)
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Ron - did you get the long or short wheelbase Bilstein B6 shocks for your 2350?
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Ron - did you get the long or short wheelbase Bilstein B6 shocks for your 2350?
??? I only knew of the "Comfort Ride RV" and the "Heavy Duty RV" Bilstein choices.
CLICK HERE (https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3580.msg30529#msg30529) to see what I installed. There is a picture of the boxes with part numbers. I got the Heavy Duty versions. They are no worse in the quality of the ride compared to the stock Ford and the Koni-RV. I don't know how they compare to Koni-FSDs. The HD Bilstein mounting hardware is surely heavy duty compared to the others I had. And in my case, it was the hardware that failed, so I was happy to get bigger bushings and related.
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Ron - Thanks for clarifying the correct part numbers. I will buy the HD’s too.
The LWB vs SWB p/n confusion came from the Rock Auto site. That threw me for a loop since our 2350’s are only 158”.
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I bought mine from Tire Rack. CLICK HERE (https://www.tirerack.com/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=Ford&autoModel=Econoline+Van&autoYear=2007&autoModClar=E350) to see their Bilstein choices for the E-Series. The ones I got are stated on that web page "Fits Class-C Motorhome Chassis". Looking at their website, they are B6.
The other choice states "Excludes Class-C Motorhome Chassis".
Those selections come up when I input Ford Econoline 2007. I would start over inputing your model year, just top make sure nothing has changed since 2007.
I see Rock Auto has them for $87.79 for each of the 4, surely a better deal today. I don't recall the prices when I bought mine, but I do remember checking Rock Auto as well. Prices change.
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Well I decided that during this social distancing time I would upgrade the suspension. I did the usual upgrades, Hellwig sway bars, Bilstein shocks and a Road Master Reflex steering stabilizer. I was surprised at the condition of the shocks and steering stabilizer with only 27,000 miles on the rig. The steering stabilizer's valving was wore out, it moves 1 inch without any resistance in either direction. The shocks also were in bad shape, one front shock had lost its charge and had very little resistance when compressed or extended and one back shock had lost its charge and wouldn't extend after being compressed, so no more gas charge.
I understand that Ford sells these Cutaway chassis not knowing what they will be used for, so they just install basic suspension components. I would of however thought that the steering stabilizer and shocks would have stood-up longer than 27,000 miles or 2.5 years...... I just wanted to get this out there, and let you know what I discovered, figure if you are thinking about doing suspension components you can see what I found and this may help you make a decision.
I hope you've had the chance to put some miles on your upgrades. 2o2 Is the ride all that you hoped it would be? Mine might need some help, it's hard to tell as you tend to just get use to what you have.
I have Roadmaster sway bars front and back, a generic looking steering stabilizer, (black no name,) shocks are also nameless but red (older Monroes?)
We're at 40k miles, put 15k on in the 2.5 years we've had this coach. I think the prior owner may have followed this forum, as many of the older suggestions posted here had already been done. No clue on the age of the shocks or stabilizer.
I'm noticing slight drifting and solid bangs from the rear when hitting major road "imperfections."
Appreciate any and all insight and advice. And Thanks :)(:
Dougn
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At around 35,000 miles, I was surprised how my Koni-RV shocks did not last.
For a quick inspection up front where the wear surfaces first, jack up the front of your rig as I had done and inspect your front shocks for what I found. Also, quickly drop the front end afterwards and see if the font suspension bounces.
Click on the link for more specifics.
https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3580.msg30529#msg30529 (https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3580.msg30529#msg30529)