Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: jdw on March 03, 2011, 10:42:38 pm
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I've been sitting on these pictures for a couple of days because I couldn't figure out how to get them off of my phone.
I was up on the roof of my 2350 a couple of days ago putting one of those spinny-no-stinky-tank-vent-fans, and I noticed these cracks between the roof section and the rear section. They look pretty large/serious to me. On the bigger "edge" crack, the roof does seem to be sagging/caved a little bit, but I gave it an experimental push and didn't really feel any flex or weakness there.
How does that happen? What would I do about something like that? I expected (and have been able to deal with) minor issues, but this doesn't seem like a do-it-yourself fix to me. Should I contact the factory?
Thanks for any suggestions!
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I would say that is definitely a problem. It appears the factory failed to apply enough caulk at the seam there. Being that you own a 2011 model year, it would be covered under warranty, and you should be able to take the RV to your local RV repair center and get refunded for the expense. But call the factory first after you email them your pictures.
I myself would email the pictures to the factory and ask for a tube of that exact same caulk, clean the area real good with laquer thinner and apply the right amount myself. Done quicker than taking it in, and done right too. Plus you'd have more caulk for later after the warranty, and also knowing what caulk to get later if it gets too old to use.
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I would check with Kermit at the factory. It looks like caulking may have settled and is not a crack as such but water could get in.
George
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It's definitely more than just missing/settled caulk. On the first picture (crack1.jpg) the fiberglass all around that dark spot on the roof is visibly depressed about a half inch, and that's there's a gap there because it pulled away when it sagged. It really looks like it ought to be soggy or flexible, although it isn't. I'd say it's sagged just enough to pool some water in the rain (probably accounting for the dark spot -- mold is an overnight phenomenon in Florida), whereas the rest of the roof has that little bit of curve to it so the rain will run off to the sides.
That's what I don't understand... how could it sag that much but be stiff as the rest of the roof now?
I wouldn't mind recaulking myself but I don't know the first thing about working with fiberglass.
What's the factory email address to use for stuff like this?
Thanks!
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"Done quicker than taking it in, and done right too."
I second that, there are a couple different types of caulking. I would use the rubber roof sealer. Clean it well and the first coat of sealer would be the non-leveling type. Fill the seam and let set up. Then I would apply the self leveling type over the complete seam. I personal feel as Ron, by the time you spend running all over town. AND feel it's done right. Just my humble opinion. billy
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Call the factory and ask for Kermit. Amanda or Karen will answer the phone and Kermit will call you back if he's not there. They are really good about that. I wouldn't do anything without talking to them.
Call--don't email!!! Kermit is a little slow with email.
Amanda can go on the forum and show him the photos.
George
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I have to agree with George, call the factory! If you start messing around with it, you could void your warrenty. If it is more than just a little thing, like you said, then the repair would be on you. Give Kermit a chance to address the issue first.
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jdw,
If the roof is in-fact sagging, you are right to contact the factory. See what they say. The phone number is on their website. Don't call Stuart's number, but the other one posted I think is the number 574-266-2020 and ask to speak with Kermit.
One bit of advise......work with Kermit, not against him. There is a PC owner (Tom & Betsy on SmugMug) who was a real son of a gun with Kermit to the point Kermit couldn't communicate with the fellow. That fellow Tom wouldn't give Kermit a change to help, instead put together a Phoenix bashing website and all. He burned himself instead of getting help. That was not smart at all.
Just me thinking here, I would expect Kermit to tell you to take your PC to your local RV fix-it shop for an inspection on what happened, then go from there. In the mean time to protect your rig until then, I would get ductape or something removable to temporarily seal it.
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I would definitely rather go the email route if possible. I've talked to Kermit before and the combination of his low voice, my cell phone and my admittedly dubious hearing results in a lot of "What?" "What?" It's a bit embarrassing for me. :-[
Don't worry, I'm not going to turn into Angry Tom. I saw his site before I bought my PC and bought it anyway. My opinion on that matter is that you can't really be sure you've accomplished anything worth doing until you have at least one raging guy on the Internet bent on your destruction. :-)
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Well stated!
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jdw,
One bit of advise......work with Kermit, not against him. There is a PC owner (Tom & Betsy on SmugMug) who was a real son of a gun with Kermit to the point Kermit couldn't communicate with the fellow. That fellow Tom wouldn't give Kermit a change to help, instead put together a Phoenix bashing website and all. He burned himself instead of getting help. That was not smart at all.
Off topic but I looked at the pics and saw mostly lack of maintenance, negligence and electrical overloading. (WH)
MOO
L. G.
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What ever came of the crack situation? Did you talk to Kermet? Fix it? billy
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Gee whiz, I got to the forum earlier today and signed in to update this, and then just didn't do it. Thanks for the prod Billy.
I emailed the photos to Amanda who showed them to Kermit who called me. He said that the "sag" I'm seeing is... not by design exactly, but sort of a side-effect of how the corner is put together, and not something I should worry about.
As far as the crack, he identified it as a substandard caulk job and promptly sent us the caulk to use for it, as several people here suggested. I managed that a couple of days ago. No problem.
I'm really grateful for Kermit's response and handling of the issue.
This is where the story turns a bit sour. I would like to get back up there and check on it, but both of the linchpins that hold the ladder on at the bottom have now failed, so it's not safe to climb. I've contacted Amanda and hopefully they'll get me replacements to us soon.
What's frustrating for me is that we have all of our stuff in storage and we're supposed to be on the road right now. Instead, we've been taken in by sympathetic relatives for the past few weeks dealing with all the various problems we've encountered.
To be fair, a whole lot of the problems we're having have nothing at all to do with Phoenix Cruiser. The spectacular hassle involved with getting our tow vehicle towable has me absolutely spitting nails, and it looks like there's at least another 1-2 weeks of delays. Suffice to say that if/when we ever do get on the road, I am sorely tempted to make our way to Washington State and burn down the Roadmaster factory.
Once I do, then we'll be back to (even more) PC issues. I've been pacing myself asking about problems here so I don't sound too needy. But the truth? There is way too much rust visible for a brand new unit we've had for two months... there are signs of rust all the way around the RV door and around the rear (fiberglass) trunk compartment. (The reason for the linchpin failures was also corrosion.) There's a growing bubble under the paint on one of the cab doors. Not one of the fiberglass compartments closes smoothly, and they're getting worse; at first they were merely difficult but now I have to put my entire body weight against the compartment doors to turn the key. I've already literally twisted one of the outside keys in half trying to lock the compartments. I've fixed three plumbing leaks so far and it's still not clear I've gotten them all. (I think there may still be one related to the black tank -- yuck.)
This is all stuff that's got to be dealt with, and there's something new every time I turn around.
Here I think is one of the issues with buying from Phoenix Cruiser... nobody wants to deal with us. Even places like Camping World are telling us that maybe they can squeeze us in (to install stuff we bought from them) in 3-4 weeks. If we had bought from a dealer with a service department, at least we'd have somebody to lean on / yell at.
Sooner or later all of this stuff will get ironed out. But, our "vacation" schedule is limited, and we're watching it slip through our fingers week after week. And I'm not really on vacation; I work remotely, so the plan was to do at least some work while we were on the road. But not right now; working on the RV is literally a full time job, and my real job is suffering big time.
I didn't buy an RV to park it across the street and stay in my relatives' guest room. And I'm just not sure I have the stamina to deal with this constant stream of issues.
(Important note: I don't think any of the problems we're having are anything that wouldn't have been just as likely with any other manufacturer. I understood that all RVs have quality issues before I bought. I'm just really frustrated right now, and running out of rope on the whole thing.)
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JDW, what a mess. I feel so bad for you. As far as the keys go, you can take off the "tab" that locks the cabinet and it is not to hard to bend it, just a tad. Sometimes a pain in the rear, but it can be done. Don't know what to say about the rust but our rig made its first and only voyage on salted roads. (I think) I have rust, not bad but it's already there???? I know it is NO relief but hang in there, we will all pull for you. billy
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JDW:
I feel your pain fella and wish there was something we all could do to help the cause; one issue at a time seems to be the best plan! As far as the pins go for the ladder...any good hardware store would have replacements or atleast bolts with nuts that would get you onto the roof and on the road! I would agree with the last post that bending the back of the latch a little will help in the locking of the bulkhead doors, I would remove the catch vs's attempting to bend it while it is on/in the door section. Rust is going to happen when you have steel, water, air and road salt, I have purcahsed a spray rust preventer that I got at a large truck equipment dealer, the stuff is used on plow trucks, etc where there is heavy use of chemicals. The stuff (forgot the name) is very expensive ($12.00 per can) but works great and last for a very long time. I hit all bare metal under the coach and it stops rust from developing, the stuff is extra heavy duty and not what you get at WalMart. The door panel with a bubble is very weird and most likely needs to be re-painted at some point. It does appear that perhaps PC is getting into the busy season and pushing the units out faster than they should?
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JDW,
It takes a lot of moxy to own a traveling home, and more than just a little patience. My second motorhome, from a dealer, with Cummins factory support locally, literally spent more time in the shops of the two the first year than I had use of the unit. Turns out the engine problem was a sensor that reported low air temp to the engine computer below 50°F and reset itself above that but still had a check engine light til it warmed up. Took a year to find the "problem": Cummins never did, I found it with a can of freeze spray. Why couldn't cummins find it? My answer would be lack of experience with their own product.
That was just one of the problems in year one. All in all, it was a unit we had a ball traveling in and there are days that I wish................
I know you will "eventually" iron out the problems and have a good run with your unit.
Good luck,
L. G.
P.S. In that unit the kitchen was on a slide and NEVER solved the potential to leak drain water because of lousy design, just replaced hoses that had to move with the slide every six months or so.
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JDW, what a mess. I feel so bad for you. As far as the keys go, you can take off the "tab" that locks the cabinet and it is not to hard to bend it, just a tad. Sometimes a pain in the rear, but it can be done. Don't know what to say about the rust but our rig made its first and only voyage on salted roads. (I think) I have rust, not bad but it's already there???? I know it is NO relief but hang in there, we will all pull for you. billy
Yes, I should have said take off the latch. ( Thanks LG) Some times the brain thinks faster then the hands can keep up with and these days that aint to fast. >:(
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Wow, I too am sorry to hear of all those issues. I wonder how much of that could be related to the time of year it was manufactured. Still, it should not be so.
I can relate to the exterior compartment latch issue as well. I simply place my left hand next to the lock, then jerk my body weight there while turning the key with my other hand, all in a quick moment. I thought that was a good thing to get a tighter pressure fit for a better seal and prevent rattling.
About rust. I do wonder what my 2007 model year unit would look like if it was exposed to any salt spray from winter driving. We intentionally ordered ours for production in June of 2007 to assure no salt exposure, and have none to this day, so ours still looks great. I did notice when crawling under the RV, the main entry door step housing is rusting on the back side. I was thinking of painting it. The brake calipers and disks are steel and they too have a rusty color to them. But the rest of the undercarriage looks good.
I read now and then on www.RV.net of other people who bought other "NEW" motor homes of different brands, having great rust concerns. I wonder what's going on there.
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We're in central Florida, so there's not a lot of road salt to be worried about. It does feel like our PC was stored on the beach for a few months before it was delivered to us. (Air salt is every bit as harsh as road salt.)
We keep having to have stuff shipped to us (including by PC) so leaving isn't much of an option. :-P
(My wife also asked me to clarify that my comment about burning down the Roadmaster factory is hyperbole; however much seething rage I might bear them individually and as a business, no, I would not actually do that.)
I'll consider adjusting the locks but I do worry about overdoing it and winding up with rattle. I do want to take them all off anyway, because no two of them point/turn in the same direction. :-P
Today's little joy: my relatives' neighbors got cited by their HOA for having an RV (ours) in their driveway. Apparently we all misread the rules. So I can't even walk to it to work on it anymore.
Anyway, don't mind me. I'm just venting.