Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: garmp on September 14, 2019, 05:43:34 pm
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Thinking about moving from a 2100 to a 2351D. With a 25' rig are leveling jacks worth while? And what are the pluses and minuses? Does the extra weight/cost make them not worth while?
Thanks.
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The HWH levelers are not a cheap option but in my opinion they add significantly to the pleasure of RVing. This is particularly so if your campground stays are short and you are frequently moving to a different campground and or you don’t have a toad and want to use the Phoenix for sightseeing, shopping, etc.
We are currently on a two month western trips with short stays (1-5 days). Everytime we move and have to resetup I think of and appreciate the ease of leveling from cab as well as the ease of extending the slide and awning. To me the only negative to having any of these electromechanical devices are unexpected failures. I guess if one is too afraid of these kind of failures one should avoid cars, trucks, and RVs along with the myriad of other devises that add pleasure to our lives.
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We have a 2551 without jacks. We have not had any problems leveling using pads. The only down fall is stability of the unit. When in bed and the other person walks one can feel slight rocking of the unit. It is more noticeable when up on pads for leveling.
We had an appoint to have them installed but had to cancel. Probably consider them in the spring. I like the idea of push a button and level is done. You get some of the cost back on resale.
Hey how did the visit go at PC? How was the 2351D unit? I like that unit. I wish the bed was longer than 74 inches though, I am 6’2” and that is tight.
Ron S
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With the 2351D, I think you could be in a catch 22 situation. I suspect with the extra slide you are going to be pushing the rear axle max. I don't know what the jacks add, but it must be several hundred pounds. I think most people under estimate the weight of their stuff.
With two slides I think you would really appreciate the stability and ease. I know its about the only option I would do again without hesitation.
Get real weights, and make an informed decision. Leave yourself some room, maybe even consider another model.
Doug
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sarz, the trip was a huge success. We had a broken drawer latch which in turn caused the drawer to come sliding out breaking the slides and it would no longer stay in. We met Doug the service guy who took care of the problem. While we were talking to Dave Ponsler and met Chuck the owner, Doug came in in about 10 minutes and said that we were all fixed. When I asked what I owed, he said don't worry about it. It was only a couple of screws and a few minutes. Super people.
They can make the bed longer, but it will no longer be a walk around.
Now I gotta check out the weight, etc.
Thanks all
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We absolutely love our jacks especially if it's raining. I wouldn't hesitate to put them on any size rig.
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We have a 2011 2552 and we love the Jacks. The stability they add is priceless I would not be without them.
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If jacks were lower cost, we would have gotten them back in 2007. At the time we figured we would add them later if we changed our mind. That was 12 years ago and we still don't have them. At times I really wished we had leveling jacks. At other times I am glad we don't. We always have a tow vehicle which helps a lot for limiting the inconvenience in handling Lynx Leveler ramps.
As mentioned by biglegmax, with model 2351D you have to closely watch your rear axle axle-over-load, even considering the rig rests on an E450 chassis. The rear-axle weight transfer is dramatic on our E350-2350. I suspect something similar might exist with model 2351D.
As far as movement of the rig when parked, CLICK HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2094.0.html).
There is one thing to keep in-mind about leveling. If you often "go primitive", the parking pads are also primitive, sloped, and uneven. For uneven conditions, I often am successful in moving the rig around into and out of low spots to level without the need for ramps. The bubble levels by the driver works great for that.
Whether using leveling jacks or ramps, you can adjust a maximum of around 4". I have seen class-A's adjusted "level" so much that their front tires are off the ground. I don't think class C jacks are safe to use in that way. People here will correct me if I am wrong. Whatever the limits are, be sure to understand them.
I am not bashing jacks or trying to talk you out of them. They sure seem great to have for typical conditions. If your budget is accommodating, it's not a hard decision.
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We had a classic for many years. A 1971 Avion 28'. Loved that trailer. Beautiful birch wood interior and solid as a rock. Now that we're classic ourselves, we enjoy the convenience of just pushing a button to level, extend the slide and the awning. We have a 2012 model 3100 and have had zero problems with any of these conveniences. wouldn't be without any of them.
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Ron, I'm sorry but just how does "We always have a tow vehicle which helps a lot for limiting the inconvenience in handling Lynx Leveler ramps." help with leveling ramps?
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I think what Ron was saying is the blocks take up storage space. I have the similar Camco FasTen nesting blocks that I keep spread throughout the exterior compartment under the corner bed instead of stacked ten high.
If I were buying new I would get the levelling jacks and keep it until I get too old to drive.
The 2351 has a longer wheelbase than the 2350, so the weight of jacks might not be such a big deal in addition to a rear slide out on the e450. Or maybe just get the regular 2351 with a longer bed instead of a pantry, rather than the 2351D. Contrary to what's been written, they still build e350 2350's, so if you want a softer riding coach perhaps they would custom build an e350 2351.
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Ron, I'm sorry but just how does "We always have a tow vehicle which helps a lot for limiting the inconvenience in handling Lynx Leveler ramps." help with leveling ramps?
Our PC stays on the ramps at the camp site while we are out during the day with the tow vehicle. We drive our PC on the ramps and it stays there until days later when it's time to move on.
If we did not tow another vehicle, then we would be messing with driving up on and down off ramps daily. Our camp site is "base camp" with our days off to trail heads and sight-seeing. The only time we hang around the camp site for the day is when it's real bad weather.
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I would LOVE leveling jacks, but it seems that the tank layout in a 2006 2350 makes the rear jack fitment an issue.
Anyone out there with a 99-2007 2350 on a E350 chassis that has leveling jacks? I would LOVE a pic of the back jacks.
To me the only negative to having any of these electromechanical devices are unexpected failures. I guess if one is too afraid of these kind of failures one should avoid cars, trucks, and RVs along with the myriad of other devises that add pleasure to our lives.
About the only corollary I would add is 'more complexity leads to more problems'. I do want leveling jacks, but manual ones. I am fine watching a level. TWO levels even. :lol I dont need 'press a button and wait' as that leads to MANY more parts and electronics... not to mention adds $1000 or more to the kit. (http://www.thebigfootleveler.com/ford-e-350.html) This is the kit I would like, if I can work around the rear fitment issues - http://www.thebigfootleveler.com/platinum-system-e-350.html
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I would LOVE leveling jacks, but it seems that the tank layout in a 2006 2350 makes the rear jack fitment an issue.
Interesting.
I recall hydraulic jacks were an option for our 2007 2350 which has the same mechanicals as a 2006 2350.
My records state as follows.
2007 - $3766 MSRP, HWH brand Hydraulic Leveling Jacks
This is their website: https://www.hwhcorp.com/ (https://www.hwhcorp.com/)
Maybe the HWH brand fits where others don't ???
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To answer an earlier question regarding lifting the wheels off the ground. HWH info says that lifting the wheels off the ground is not an issue with the jacks. I have on several occasions lifted the front wheels off the ground to achieve the level the refrigerator requires. Because the rear wheels secures the PC in place when parked I am careful not to lift the rear wheels off the ground.
Since the HWH leveling system supplied by Phoenix only lifts two jacks at a time it reduces the chance of excessive twisting or racking of the frame. Typically when pulling into a site I lay my IPhone with a leveling app on coach floor beside the driver seat so to get it as level as feasible before deploying the jacks. I shoot for near level with jacks but not to exceed +- 3 degrees front to back and not to exceed +- 6 degrees side to side.
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HWH info says that lifting the wheels off the ground is not an issue with the jacks. I have on several occasions lifted the front wheels off the ground to achieve the level the refrigerator requires. Because the rear wheels secures the PC in place when parked I am careful not to lift the rear wheels off the ground.
I did not know it was safe to lift the front off the ground so high. I thought there was a 4 inch limit. Thanks fandj for the correction!
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What about the rear wheels off the ground? I've had that a few times. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. Makes it easy to change a tire! heartshower (cheer) (cheer)
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New owner of a 2008 2900. We went on our first trip last week and used the auto leveling jacks for the first time. Very easy and I can't imagine not having them.
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What about the rear wheels off the ground? I've had that a few times. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. Makes it easy to change a tire! heartshower (cheer) (cheer)
Bad plan on a slope. We did that and the rig rolled forward off the jacks. Luckily I was to the side and it didn't hit me or our car as it jumps several feet before slamming down and stopping when those back tires/brakes hit the ground and stop the forward momentum. The jacks were fine as they are designed to kick back if you have to drive forward off of them. It was a scary lesson learned and while I'd like to say we never did it again, I'd be lying. Our second time beat it into our heads a little better and I remind John all the time when he gets into over leveling mode (front up, back up, right up, front up, left up, back up...). Bottom line, some of those tires should be on the ground!
Now for backing up on the jacks. Another bad plan. Yep, we did that too. John forgot the jacks were down, didn't see the red light telling him the jacks were down, and backed her up. We snapped a cable on one of the jacks and it wouldn't deploy anymore. Doug fixed it last time we visited the factory. He told us we could have manually pulled the jack part way down and it would have worked. The cables keep it from retracting too far up. The jacks need to be angled down a bit for the system to swing them the rest of the way to vertical.
Another lesson learned. We are (somewhat) happy to be the guinea pigs in these user error experiments so you can learn from our mistakes. Hopefully you're quicker to learn than we are.