Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: RJW365 on July 26, 2019, 03:20:48 pm
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HI everyone, so there are many nice features about the PC 2350 but the E450 chassis change is not what we expected. Our previous PC was 2018 2100 E350 and the ride (related to bumps in the road) was much better. I understand the E450 is build to be tougher but did not expect the ride to change this much. The front end is terrible when you go over the slightest crack or bump in the road. Everything in the RV bangs/slams and startles you you each time you go over a bump. This issue is causing an unpleasant driving experience. The steering is great and have a the Safety Plus stabilizer bar. Smooth road the ride is great. Even with Air Ride installed in the rear at 90 lbs, the RV ride is not good over any type of bump. My budget does not afford liquid sprigs and would hope that is not the only solution. Does anyone else have an E450 with similar problems? Any recommendations? I read online that better shocks will not help? I called Ford directly and did not get very far; they suggested I speak with the manufacturer.. figures.
Thanks!
Rob in Maryland
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Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55# for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable . I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!
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I’m in a 2552 model year 2011 E450. Mine rides just like you describe. I installed the Koni shocks that are supposed to fix that jarring ride on bumps such as bridge joints etc. don’t waste your money on Koni, they did nothing to help the ride. I’ve been in contact with Koni and they CLAIM this is the first they have heard of this. Anyway I’m starting the warranty process foe replacements. If it turns out mine are in fact bad and the new ones help I’ll report it but I don’t have my hopes very high. I won’t spend thousands on liquid springs either and have no idea what the fix is.
We just spent three months crossing 11 states and ever one has their share of teeth rattling roads.
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Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55# for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable . I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!
Thanks for comments, very helpful. The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added. The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there. I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery. Thanks again for comments and safe travels!
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I’m in a 2552 model year 2011 E450. Mine rides just like you describe. I installed the Koni shocks that are supposed to fix that jarring ride on bumps such as bridge joints etc. don’t waste your money on Koni, they did nothing to help the ride. I’ve been in contact with Koni and they CLAIM this is the first they have heard of this. Anyway I’m starting the warranty process foe replacements. If it turns out mine are in fact bad and the new ones help I’ll report it but I don’t have my hopes very high. I won’t spend thousands on liquid springs either and have no idea what the fix is.
We just spent three months crossing 11 states and ever one has their share of teeth rattling roads.
HI, Thanks for your reply and comments. Do you have the new Koni FSD or older version? Here is the link we were reviewing as a possible improvement http://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Products/Motorhome/FSD/
I will keep this post updated on our hopeful progress.
Thanks and safe travels!
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I have a 2350/450 too. Rear air bags also. I figured the ride would be rough, and not great steering with the 4x4 option,but it sucks like you mention. I was hoping the air bags would help the 2350 sag, but they really did not. I'm pulling them off, and taking it to a custom truck spring builder to have them add and re-arc as needed to address the sag issue. Not sure what to do with the front end, but I think once the rear sag is gone, things will get better.
This might seem too simple but play with your tire air pressure some, its not the cure, but it helps. Summer heat makes pressures high, and the higher it gets the rougher the ride.
Doug
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The koni shocks I installed were the FSD. No help at all.
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Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55# for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable . I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!
Thanks for comments, very helpful. The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added. The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there. I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery. Thanks again for comments and safe travels!
15,000 lbs on the rear! The entire vehicle is only rated 14,500 GVWR!
As to the front tires, how much (cold) air pressure do put in them? I keep the front tires of my 2015,model 2551 at 75# while the rear are all set at 80#
Certainly, it's not a squishy ride... After all, it is a truck but nothing like you are describing.
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RJW - where did you get that 15k weight number? Your GVWR is 14.5k, but your 2350 is only ~ 11k with 2 people and enough provisions for a week.
I run 40 psi in the Firestone ride-rite air springs on my E350 with a stout Hellwig rear sway bar. Any greater psi results in a harsher ride and increased body roll on twisty roads.
If (??) the E450 tire placard on your 2350 specifies 80psi for the back tires, try running 60 psi instead, which is what the tire placard on the E350 2350 specifies. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that owners of the bigger E450-only PC models should deviate from their tire placard inflation specs for a softer ride.
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This is a topic dear to my heart, yet I have a 2007 E350 chassis, hoping to soften our front suspension by soon replacing our stock E350 front coil springs with E150 coil springs.
To you with an E450 2350, as you have determined, your chassis is far over-rated for the actual load it is carrying. The source of your jarring condition is related to an extra stiff, extra capable front and rear suspension. What I share next is what I feel will get you going in the right direction, and it should be a very affordable solution compared to all other options.
Keep in-mind that I am not an authority on all this.
During your next RV trip, fully loaded with a tank full of gasoline, propane, fresh water (no waste water), whatever you typically mount on your rear hitch, all your stuff including clothing, supplies, cookware, food, bottled water, and also you in your typical seating positions inside the RV.........get your rig weighed at a truck stop with a truck weigh scale. Weigh each axle independently as is common practice on those scales. With the weight numbers, you can determine the difference between your actual weight on each axle, and compare those numbers with the capability of each axle. I am NO EXPERT HERE so don't take my word as gospel, but I feel you want your actual load per axle to be 500-750 pounds less than the axle's capability. If the gap is significantly more, your ride will be quite rough as you are experiencing today.
I did that exercise with our 2350. Our front axle is extremely light with an actual load (worst case scenario) of 3260 pounds and a capability of 4600 pounds, a 1140 pound difference. On our heaviest trip ever, our rear axle weighed 8220 pounds on the rear axle that is capable of 7800 pounds, a deficiency (over-load condition) of 420 pounds. Since then we are more mindful of what we carry and where we place the weight.
In your case with model 2350 on an E450 chassis, you won't have a rear axle over-load condition, but rather a severe under-load condition like I have with my front axle. As I previously mentioned, I will soon swap my stock E350 4600 pound front coil springs with lower-rated ones designed for an E150. I strongly advise to learn from my results before taking any such action with your own 2350s.
Regarding your rear suspension, a truck suspension shop should be able to take the weight numbers you provide and determine how many rear leaf springs to remove to decrease the amount of load margin to get you to the 500-750 number.
In my case, I wish I could add one more leaf spring per rear corner to increase my rear axle capability and lift it up to rid our slight rear end sag. I can't add any leaf springs because the extra height will prevent the rig from clearing our already tight garage door clearance.
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Ron, I’ve tried the diff weight experiment on my 2552. It doesn’t make the ride less jarring.
Talking with Koni, they claim the designed the FSD specifically to correct this jarring ride. Sadly in my case it was no help at all. I’ll go ahead with the warranty claim but I’ll be surprised and elated if it helps.
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Hi Rob , although I/we don't have a Phoenix , we have a winnie Trend that maxes out around 10,000# . It rode like a lumber wagon we first got it ! Handled nice and good road manners and mileage is good. I put air bags on rear and day night difference along with supersprings on front coils ..even better, don't get blown around in wind or being passed and minimal slamming . As for the airbags, that has been being discussed as "stiffening or hardening " the ride , many found out that adjusting pressure mostly cured the hard ride . I started out around 75-80# and over several days toned it down to around 45-55# for max control and comfort, not Cadilac but much more tolerable . I still get the bang over risers in the road but much less so .The front supersprings took most of the bang out too and less rolling too. Just my .02 cents and hope you get it dialed in to a pleasurable level ! Like insurance , you'll get it where you want it and almost never get a rough road again !!
Thanks for comments, very helpful. The rear heavy duty (Air Ride) air bags will not support the 15k lb weight of the rear until 90 lbs is added. The max is 100 so unfortunately not much play there. I will keep the post updated as we continue our discovery. Thanks again for comments and safe travels!
15,000 lbs on the rear! The entire vehicle is only rated 14,500 GVWR!
As to the front tires, how much (cold) air pressure do put in them? I keep the front tires of my 2015,model 2551 at 75# while the rear are all set at 80#
Certainly, it's not a squishy ride... After all, it is a truck but nothing like you are describing.
Sorry, yeah that was a typo and meant to state combined weight. The front per the brochure specification is 5000lb front and 9600lb rear. I was informed to use the tire pressure per the sticker which is 75 front and 80 rear (cold). What I described is the ride is extremely hard with no give in the bumps even with Air Ride installed on the rear. This is a very expensive RV not a meant to ride like a rough truck. In my opinion.
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I have a 2350/450 too. Rear air bags also. I figured the ride would be rough, and not great steering with the 4x4 option,but it sucks like you mention. I was hoping the air bags would help the 2350 sag, but they really did not. I'm pulling them off, and taking it to a custom truck spring builder to have them add and re-arc as needed to address the sag issue. Not sure what to do with the front end, but I think once the rear sag is gone, things will get better.
This might seem too simple but play with your tire air pressure some, its not the cure, but it helps. Summer heat makes pressures high, and the higher it gets the rougher the ride.
Doug
Thanks for the reply on this post. Tire pressure cold is kept at 75 front and 80 rear per sticker. I have not played with decreasing since they already look a little round. What pressure do you use on yours? Also, Any chance you talked to PC about this experience; reason I asked is concerns of voiding the 1 year warranty and if they have had enough owners like us complaining about the hard ride issue that they would help with a solution. Please keep me posted on any progress and I will do the same. Thanks!
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The koni shocks I installed were the FSD. No help at all.
That stinks.. sorry to hear this news..
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RJW - where did you get that 15k weight number? Your GVWR is 14.5k, but your 2350 is only ~ 11k with 2 people and enough provisions for a week.
I run 40 psi in the Firestone ride-rite air springs on my E350 with a stout Hellwig rear sway bar. Any greater psi results in a harsher ride and increased body roll on twisty roads.
If (??) the E450 tire placard on your 2350 specifies 80psi for the back tires, try running 60 psi instead, which is what the tire placard on the E350 2350 specifies. To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that owners of the bigger E450-only PC models should deviate from their tire placard inflation specs for a softer ride.
The 15k was combined weight front and back per the brochure.. I typed to quick on the earlier reply, sorry for the confusion. Per the Air Ride, we also had a 2100 prior with the standard Air Ride bags (Bob at Elkhart Hitch) and yes 30 to 40 pounds was plenty and ride was great. We now have a 2350 and E350 was not an option anymore so E450 was recommended and now that is all PC is using in production. Since it was a E450 the Air Ride recommendation was the heavy duty bags that have a center block inside to prevent collapse. This is why the pressure is 90lb because anything less will not inflate enough to keep the vehical weight of the inner blocks (per Elkhart Hitch).
Thanks for your feedback and support.
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This is a topic dear to my heart, yet I have a 2007 E350 chassis, hoping to soften our front suspension by soon replacing our stock E350 front coil springs with E150 coil springs.
To you with an E450 2350, as you have determined, your chassis is far over-rated for the actual load it is carrying. The source of your jarring condition is related to an extra stiff, extra capable front and rear suspension. What I share next is what I feel will get you going in the right direction, and it should be a very affordable solution compared to all other options.
Keep in-mind that I am not an authority on all this.
During your next RV trip, fully loaded with a tank full of gasoline, propane, fresh water (no waste water), whatever you typically mount on your rear hitch, all your stuff including clothing, supplies, cookware, food, bottled water, and also you in your typical seating positions inside the RV.........get your rig weighed at a truck stop with a truck weigh scale. Weigh each axle independently as is common practice on those scales. With the weight numbers, you can determine the difference between your actual weight on each axle, and compare those numbers with the capability of each axle. I am NO EXPERT HERE so don't take my word as gospel, but I feel you want your actual load per axle to be 500-750 pounds less than the axle's capability. If the gap is significantly more, your ride will be quite rough as you are experiencing today.
I did that exercise with our 2350. Our front axle is extremely light with an actual load (worst case scenario) of 3260 pounds and a capability of 4600 pounds, a 1140 pound difference. On our heaviest trip ever, our rear axle weighed 8220 pounds on the rear axle that is capable of 7800 pounds, a deficiency (over-load condition) of 420 pounds. Since then we are more mindful of what we carry and where we place the weight.
In your case with model 2350 on an E450 chassis, you won't have a rear axle over-load condition, but rather a severe under-load condition like I have with my front axle. As I previously mentioned, I will soon swap my stock E350 4600 pound front coil springs with lower-rated ones designed for an E150. I strongly advise to learn from my results before taking any such action with your own 2350s.
Regarding your rear suspension, a truck suspension shop should be able to take the weight numbers you provide and determine how many rear leaf springs to remove to decrease the amount of load margin to get you to the 500-750 number.
In my case, I wish I could add one more leaf spring per rear corner to increase my rear axle capability and lift it up to rid our slight rear end sag. I can't add any leaf springs because the extra height will prevent the rig from clearing our already tight garage door clearance.
Thanks for the all the details and information.. a lot to digest and figure out our next move. I will likely be calling PC and seeing what they can do to help or suggest. BTW - is there a better way to reply to all the post replies? it appears it is creating a new post each time I reply. Everything is too damn time consuming :-)
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We have a very similar, but different beast with the Quigley. They swap rims to 17" so our tires and pressures would be different.
My thinking, and it might be flawed, if you are running max axle limits, run max air pressure, if not, drop your air pressure some. Its something that you have to feel comfortable with. We have a tire pressure monitor so I'm able to watch things pretty closely.
Personally I think you will be wasting your breath talking to PC. They have known about the 2350 sag for years and haven't addressed it. Quigley even put 3" spacers under the springs to help level out their work, but the house is designed with too much weight aft. It doesn't have to be that way.
I think we have both been sold a bill of goods with the air bags, I can't wait to get them off.
Doug
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Ron:
Can you comment on the ride when you were over weight on the rear?
Doug
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80 psi is required at or near an E rated tire’s load carrying limit. For example, my Bridgestone Duravis R500 HD’s are rated at 2680 lbs each at 80psi, meaning maximum 5,360 lbs front axle / 10,720 lbs rear axle.
https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=55
As Ron Dittmer demonstrated, a 2350 is several thousand pounds under those limits, so you should be ok running the E350 2350 tire placard pressures. Mine are 65 front/60 rear.
Is this really a 2019 E350 2350 at Campers Inn ??
https://www.rvt.com/Phoenix-Cruiser-2350-2019-Selma-NC-ID8602809-UX198488
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Ron:
Can you comment on the ride when you were over weight on the rear?
Doug
Having a rear axle over-load condition on our 2007 E350 2350 (with our lighter-weighted NO-slide-out floor plan), the ride in back is fairly smooth, yet still rougher than our family sedan. I will always wonder if Koni-FSD shocks all around would help, but I likely will never find out because I am extremely happy with the Bilstein-HD shocks I recently installed.
I "test feel" the rear axle ride when Irene is driving on the open road, and I lay on my back on the floor with my head resting on the floor over the rear axle. I feel the vibrations best that way.
Under our typical load conditions, the ride is a bit harsher than when over-loaded but not significantly so, because we always run very close to the 7800 pound rear axle load rating.
It is up front where I always felt our PC could benefit from a suspension adjustment, hence going to try E150 front coil springs. I hope the results will provide a noticeably softer ride along with a little lower front stance, without a significant sacrifice to handling. If the front end lowers enough for a greater clearance between my roof a/c to our garage door opening, then I will consider adding one more leaf spring in each rear corner to lift the tail a bit more.
Keep in-mind that our 2007 E350 2350, does not have the extra weight of a slide out which lightens the front axle, and our fresh water tank sits against the back wall which teeter-totters the weight even worse off the front and onto the rear axle. Later model years of the 2350 have the fresh water tank placed more forward and more centered side-to-side. So my situation is worse than 2350 owners of a 2010 model year or newer.
About rear air bags. I had them on our first motor home. I had an on-board air compressor and controls by the driver so that while driving, I could add air or let out air pending the driving conditions. More air in the air bags provided better handling which also made a rougher ride. So I am surprised to read that people say to add more air in the rear air bag suspension to make a smoother softer ride.
Regarding the tire pressure. That is one easy area where you can make a difference in the harshness of your ride, but you really need to know your weight per axle to know the right tire pressure. All 4 rear tires get the same tire pressure. The same up front, but they don't have to match the back. Just 5 PSI pressure more than needed will yield a noticeably rougher ride. For reference alone, I run 65 psi in all 6 of our tires, making sure my tire gauge is accurate.
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It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation. Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#. I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?
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It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation. Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#. I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?
Thanks everyone for your posts and comments. I went to a CAT Scale yesterday and my 2019 E450 2350 has 3600LB in the front and 8720LB in the rear. Total 12,320. (full water tank, empty gray and black)
So I guess I need to review the previous chart provided and determine the correct air pressure in front and rear vs going by the place card info?
Also, it appears because I have to have 90LB in my rear heavy duty air bags to keep them off the inside block (per Bob at Elkhart Hitch). The rear it not sagging and when you go over a long dip, you can tell the rear air bags are helping, so not convince they are contributing to the overall rough ride especially since most of the rough is experienced in the front. Hard to say. I plan to call Elkhart Hitch this morning and share the rear weight and see if he has any other comments related to the bags.
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That Goodyear chart is specific to size and make, not generic.
According to this, E450 2350’s have LT225/75R16 tires, correct?
https://www.phoenixusarv.com/phoenix-cruiser-model-2350/
The tire placard located on my E350 door jam specifies LT225/75R16 @ 65 psi front / 60 psi rear.
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It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation. Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#. I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?
Thanks everyone for your posts and comments. I went to a CAT Scale yesterday and my 2019 E450 2350 has 3600LB in the front and 8720LB in the rear. Total 12,320. (full water tank, empty gray and black)
So I guess I need to review the previous chart provided and determine the correct air pressure in front and rear vs going by the place card info?
Also, it appears because I have to have 90LB in my rear heavy duty air bags to keep them off the inside block (per Bob at Elkhart Hitch). The rear it not sagging and when you go over a long dip, you can tell the rear air bags are helping, so not convince they are contributing to the overall rough ride especially since most of the rough is experienced in the front. Hard to say. I plan to call Elkhart Hitch this morning and share the rear weight and see if he has any other comments related to the bags.
If you own model 2350 of any model year with or without a slide out, and you are putting in the maximum 80 PSI in your tires, that will surely give you a ride of torture to you and your house. The only benefit to having so much air in the tires will be for improved fuel economy.
RJW365's axle weight numbers seems right to me. Your front axle is roughly 350 pounds heavier than ours due to the placement of your fresh water tank and also that you have a slide out. Adjusting your tire pressure to match your actual load will make a really big difference for the better. Just BE SURE to use a trusted tire gauge. If it is not a digital tire gauge, I would compare it to one.
90 PSI in those additional rear axle-mounted air bags sounds like a whole lot of extra PSI yielding a much rougher ride. I recall with our previous motor home, the air bags of a different brand required a minimum of 15 PSI to prevent damage to them. If you have an E450, I advise to research the minimum requirement for your rear air bags and set them to that minimum during a good long trip, and see what you learn from that PSI setting. If you own an E350 with lower-rated rear springs and are leveling your rig with air bags, that is a different situation.
About the Phoenix supplied tire label in the door jamb. For our 2007 PC 2350, the recommendation is real close to my actual load requirement. I think most of my troubles in past years was related to bad tire gauges providing inaccurate readings by as much as 9 PSI.
It is interesting that the front axle load rating for the E350 and E450 are identical. They have identical coil springs and all. The difference in their load rating is all related to the rear axle. So if you have a short PC with a light weight front axle, your E350 or E450 front suspension is going to make for a rough ride up front. So MAKE SURE your front tires are not over-inflated.
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Hi Rob hope you get your new PC ride corrected.i know you will find a solution.
BTW : I'm STEVE I PURCHASED YOUR PC 2100 you traded at the factory in Elkhart. We met there back in May . I want to say thank you we love our 2100 you took excellent care of it . It's funny I was reading the the forum and I recognized your Doberman picture and you being in Maryland named Rob . Again we are super pleased with our 2100 PC perfect for us . We been traveling quite a bit with it , rides nice with the Air lift ride you installed.
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It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation. Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#. I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?
Thanks for the info. Could you educate me on how to read the tire pressure charts?
Thanks
Ron S
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I am no expert on suspensions and could not recommend anything. However, I know CoachHouse uses MORryde suspension. The link below claims smoother ride.
http://www.morryde.com/products/91-rs-suspension-system?return=%2Fproduct-category%2F4-suspension%3Ffilter%255B%255D%3Dall%26filter%255B%255D%3D10
It would be interesting to see if a former CoachHouse owner has any comments on the MORryde versus stock suspensions.
Ron S
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It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation. Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#. I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?
Thanks everyone for your posts and comments. I went to a CAT Scale yesterday and my 2019 E450 2350 has 3600LB in the front and 8720LB in the rear. Total 12,320. (full water tank, empty gray and black)
So I guess I need to review the previous chart provided and determine the correct air pressure in front and rear vs going by the place card info?
Also, it appears because I have to have 90LB in my rear heavy duty air bags to keep them off the inside block (per Bob at Elkhart Hitch). The rear it not sagging and when you go over a long dip, you can tell the rear air bags are helping, so not convince they are contributing to the overall rough ride especially since most of the rough is experienced in the front. Hard to say. I plan to call Elkhart Hitch this morning and share the rear weight and see if he has any other comments related to the bags.
If you own model 2350 of any model year with or without a slide out, and you are putting in the maximum 80 PSI in your tires, that will surely give you a ride of torture to you and your house. The only benefit to having so much air in the tires will be for improved fuel economy.
RJW365's axle weight numbers seems right to me. Your front axle is roughly 350 pounds heavier than ours due to the placement of your fresh water tank and also that you have a slide out. Adjusting your tire pressure to match your actual load will make a really big difference for the better. Just BE SURE to use a trusted tire gauge. If it is not a digital tire gauge, I would compare it to one.
90 PSI in those additional rear axle-mounted air bags sounds like a whole lot of extra PSI yielding a much rougher ride. I recall with our previous motor home, the air bags of a different brand required a minimum of 15 PSI to prevent damage to them. If you have an E450, I advise to research the minimum requirement for your rear air bags and set them to that minimum during a good long trip, and see what you learn from that PSI setting. If you own an E350 with lower-rated rear springs and are leveling your rig with air bags, that is a different situation.
About the Phoenix supplied tire label in the door jamb. For our 2007 PC 2350, the recommendation is real close to my actual load requirement. I think most of my troubles in past years was related to bad tire gauges providing inaccurate readings by as much as 9 PSI.
It is interesting that the front axle load rating for the E350 and E450 are identical. They have identical coil springs and all. The difference in their load rating is all related to the rear axle. So if you have a short PC with a light weight front axle, your E350 or E450 front suspension is going to make for a rough ride up front. So MAKE SURE your front tires are not over-inflated.
Ron, thanks for the reply and details! Much appreciated. The tires installed on the 2019 2350 E450 are Hankook. Tire size is LT225/75R16E. I will definitely be reviewing the tire pressure ratings and have always used Acutire digital gauges. The pressure rating on the PC card is 75 front and 80 rear which is what I have inflated but appears this is part of my problem. The heavy duty version of the air bags on my E450 may also be attributing to the problem. My previous RV 2018 2100 had the standard air bags and keeping 30LB was perfect. Since we jumped to E450 they wanted to use the heavy bag with a safety block in the bag to prevent tear. If less than 90LB the damn block is hitting and not helping the rear ride. I have an active conversation with Elkhart about the pressure ratings in those bags to support the vehicle rear weight. My 2350 does have a slide out with fridge and couch. Thanks again and I will update again when I have any new information.
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Hi Rob hope you get your new PC ride corrected.i know you will find a solution.
BTW : I'm STEVE I PURCHASED YOUR PC 2100 you traded at the factory in Elkhart. We met there back in May . I want to say thank you we love our 2100 you took excellent care of it . It's funny I was reading the the forum and I recognized your Doberman picture and you being in Maryland named Rob . Again we are super pleased with our 2100 PC perfect for us . We been traveling quite a bit with it , rides nice with the Air lift ride you installed.
Steve, good to hear from you and hope all is well. Glad you recognized our Doberman! That is too funny. We did enjoy that RV and features but really needed a little more room thus the next level upgrade. We also had a couple issues but PC was very helpful with repairs. I hope you continue to enjoy your new PC 2100. Take care! Safe Travels.
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It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation. Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#. I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?
Thanks everyone for your posts and comments. I went to a CAT Scale yesterday and my 2019 E450 2350 has 3600LB in the front and 8720LB in the rear. Total 12,320. (full water tank, empty gray and black)
So I guess I need to review the previous chart provided and determine the correct air pressure in front and rear vs going by the place card info?
Also, it appears because I have to have 90LB in my rear heavy duty air bags to keep them off the inside block (per Bob at Elkhart Hitch). The rear it not sagging and when you go over a long dip, you can tell the rear air bags are helping, so not convince they are contributing to the overall rough ride especially since most of the rough is experienced in the front. Hard to say. I plan to call Elkhart Hitch this morning and share the rear weight and see if he has any other comments related to the bags.
If you own model 2350 of any model year with or without a slide out, and you are putting in the maximum 80 PSI in your tires, that will surely give you a ride of torture to you and your house. The only benefit to having so much air in the tires will be for improved fuel economy.
RJW365's axle weight numbers seems right to me. Your front axle is roughly 350 pounds heavier than ours due to the placement of your fresh water tank and also that you have a slide out. Adjusting your tire pressure to match your actual load will make a really big difference for the better. Just BE SURE to use a trusted tire gauge. If it is not a digital tire gauge, I would compare it to one.
90 PSI in those additional rear axle-mounted air bags sounds like a whole lot of extra PSI yielding a much rougher ride. I recall with our previous motor home, the air bags of a different brand required a minimum of 15 PSI to prevent damage to them. If you have an E450, I advise to research the minimum requirement for your rear air bags and set them to that minimum during a good long trip, and see what you learn from that PSI setting. If you own an E350 with lower-rated rear springs and are leveling your rig with air bags, that is a different situation.
About the Phoenix supplied tire label in the door jamb. For our 2007 PC 2350, the recommendation is real close to my actual load requirement. I think most of my troubles in past years was related to bad tire gauges providing inaccurate readings by as much as 9 PSI.
It is interesting that the front axle load rating for the E350 and E450 are identical. They have identical coil springs and all. The difference in their load rating is all related to the rear axle. So if you have a short PC with a light weight front axle, your E350 or E450 front suspension is going to make for a rough ride up front. So MAKE SURE your front tires are not over-inflated.
Ron, thanks for the reply and details! Much appreciated. The tires installed on the 2019 2350 E450 are Hankook. Tire size is LT225/75R16E. I will definitely be reviewing the tire pressure ratings and have always used Acutire digital gauges. The pressure rating on the PC card is 75 front and 80 rear which is what I have inflated but appears this is part of my problem. The heavy duty version of the air bags on my E450 may also be attributing to the problem. My previous RV 2018 2100 had the standard air bags and keeping 30LB was perfect. Since we jumped to E450 they wanted to use the heavy bag with a safety block in the bag to prevent tear. If less than 90LB the damn block is hitting and not helping the rear ride. I have an active conversation with Elkhart about the pressure ratings in those bags to support the vehicle rear weight. My 2350 does have a slide out with fridge and couch. Thanks again and I will update again when I have any new information.
Ah, I understand about your air bags. You MUST add 90 PSI to prevent internal bottoming-out. Good that you are working with Phoenix on it. I understand why you had rear air bags on your previous 2100, an effort to lift the rear to level it along with improved handling. Why did you add them on your E450 2350? Did you think...."They helped before so they should help on my new rig?" I would consider removing them.
About the Phoenix supplied tire pressure sticker. The recommended 75 PSI in the front and 80 PSI in the rear sounds like a lot more air than your load requires. Maybe they accidentally placed the wrong sticker. Ask Phoenix about that. Maybe they can sent you the right sticker. Your numbers should be around 60-65 PSI.
Back to air bags. Our old rig with air bags was proportioned similar to model 2100, a short rig with a large rear over-hang. CLICK HERE TO SEE IT (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157621472936441) The air bags with lots of air stabilized it and lifted it a few inches. But the ride was rough with a lot of air. So I adjusted more air or less air as the driving conditions required. If you look at the picture taken through the driver's door, you can see the air bag control unit with air gauge, located by the driver's left knee. One button turned on the air pump. The other button let out air. Another picture showing the battery compartment & converter, also shows the air compressor.
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Like AC noise, ride quality can be a 'hard to define' issue. Whats fine for one person is intolerable for another.
So... I was thinking of how to have a 'standard' that could be used, without having to resort to expensive dedicated equipment.
There is an app for that! And most if not all of us use cellphones.
Article from 2017 on it: https://highways.today/2017/02/01/roadbounce-app-measures-road-roughness-driving-comfort-go/
Home site: https://www.roadbounce.com/ (android link here, no Apple one seen...)
Current listing in the google app store - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.definitics.roadbouncesocial&hl=en_US
Did not see one for Apple anywhere..... any Apple people please post a link if there is one.
If we had this app on a phone, and all agreed to set it on the center console in a drink holder, we could have a data set that could be helpful. Now when someone is wondering how their ride quality matches up to other campers (or even their cars!) we can have objective answers, instead of the current 'butt seismograph' method used now. roflol
After a while, we might even have data on the same roads from multiple PC's, and REALLY see what the difference is. Granted, the data gathered wont be *identical* in quality due to variances in phones, but I feel it will be MUCH more accurate and repeatable than our current method.
Passing thought. :)(:
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Like AC noise, ride quality can be a 'hard to define' issue. Whats fine for one person is intolerable for another.
Absolutely true, Randy. And your proposal is a unique way to insert some data-based reasoning into this issue. I have been a little surprised by the discussions and concerns with several of the more "subjective" areas of PC performance--A/C noise, generator noise, and ride quality being three of them. Being a relatively new PC (and RV) owner, I was apprehensive about all of these areas based on my long-time review of this forum before I bought--and in each case I have been pleasantly surprised with the actual results with my unit. Maybe I'm just a little more tolerant (or "too easy"), or maybe my 450--2552 is in a little more of a sweet spot on ride than some of the lighter units, but I have been pretty happy in each case with what I've experienced.
In any case, I have always turned to data when possible to help resolve questions or problems, so I hope that you're successful in getting some input from this. Unfortunately I'm Apple, so unless I can turn up an app (I'll look) I may not be able to contribute. But any movement from the necessarily subjective discussions on this and other topics to more objective information would at least provide another way to evaluate the issue.
All the best, Mike
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There is an old saying “ If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it”. I think this works here as well.
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Ac noise being mentioned. For that there is a easy reference point of comparison. With the penguin on high, I have yet to be in a class c where you could watch the tv without using surround sound to be able to hear it. With the Houghton on high we have not needed the surround sound at all. Also we just got back from a 9000 mile trip. Everywhere we went people complained about the ac noise; we hadn’t asked, just in conversation on how are you enjoying your trip type talk. Everyone who went inside our Pc with the houghton wanted the info and contact for advanced rv. To add to that I wear hearing aids and my better half has excellent hearing so both bases are covered there as well. So it’s not as subjective as one might think as there is a very easy point of comparison.
I have my tires at 62 lbs and I’ve tried less and more, more was worse. Ive tried lowering raising weight, no help and stupid idea to think one would have to adjust weight before every trip. Damn near every bridge joint we come to the jarring is so severe everything in the cabinets is tossed, dishes and the like. I wish there was an easy point of comparison as the AC has but I haven’t figured that out yet.
For what ever reason it seems people want to look for an easy way to dismiss an issue away. Compare it to a different model, say the E350 or a class A or the drivers tolerance. The fact is the E450 has a jarring ride unless it’s on very good roads. It’s not a Pc thing, it’s a E450 thing. I’d be happy to take anyone for a demo ride to awaken there senses. Next time I load her up for a trip anyone in the area is welcome to come see and hopefully have knowledge of a cure.
Koni claims they made the fsd to address the E450 suspension issue. In my case they didn’t help but maybe I got a bad set. Point being however that this is enough of a known issue that Koni goes after the market to address this specific issue.
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Joseph,
I'm not suggesting that the Houghton units don't provide a major reduction in A/C noise---everything I've read about them verify that they are a remarkable improvement. Since PC is willing to install them now (at least, Jim Godfrey has said that he is getting two in his build that's currently underway), I would certainly attempt to get them installed if I were building my unit today. Again, I guess it's the "subjective" thing--the two Dometic units that I have are loud, but aren't as bad as I expected--and haven't been an issue for me.
Similarly, I have been quite satisfied with the ride quality of my 2552 on the 450. Road conditions certainly make a difference (and I prefer smooth roads!), but I've been running my tires at placard pressure (75 and 80), and haven't felt the need to attempt a reduction.
All the best, Mike
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Ac noise being mentioned. For that there is a easy reference point of comparison. With the penguin on high, I have yet to be in a class c where you could watch the tv without using surround sound to be able to hear it. With the Houghton on high we have not needed the surround sound at all. Also we just got back from a 9000 mile trip. Everywhere we went people complained about the ac noise; we hadn’t asked, just in conversation on how are you enjoying your trip type talk. Everyone who went inside our Pc with the houghton wanted the info and contact for advanced rv. To add to that I wear hearing aids and my better half has excellent hearing so both bases are covered there as well. So it’s not as subjective as one might think as there is a very easy point of comparison.
I have my tires at 62 lbs and I’ve tried less and more, more was worse. Ive tried lowering raising weight, no help and stupid idea to think one would have to adjust weight before every trip. Damn near every bridge joint we come to the jarring is so severe everything in the cabinets is tossed, dishes and the like. I wish there was an easy point of comparison as the AC has but I haven’t figured that out yet.
For what ever reason it seems people want to look for an easy way to dismiss an issue away. Compare it to a different model, say the E350 or a class A or the drivers tolerance. The fact is the E450 has a jarring ride unless it’s on very good roads. It’s not a Pc thing, it’s a E450 thing. I’d be happy to take anyone for a demo ride to awaken there senses. Next time I load her up for a trip anyone in the area is welcome to come see and hopefully have knowledge of a cure.
The AC noise is EASY to quantify...its called a dB (Decibel) meter. Apps available quite readily.
It is somewhat interesting you say " So it’s not as subjective ..."" and then give only subjective examples. No doubt in my mind the AC is markedly quieter, and in an obvious way. But a quantitative example would be " My old one was 110dB and the new one is 45db" (yes, I know these are extremely unlikely readings) which anyone can replicate, not just "It was so much quieter they wanted a phone number" . BOTH are true statements, but one subjective and the other objective.
Not dismissing the HUGE advantage in any way of that absolutely marvelous AC unit, but just putting that big difference into terms that can be measured repeatedly and compared accurately by anyone.
And even more subjective things... ""The fact is the E450 has a jarring ride unless it’s on very good roads."" ...well, MikeH's 'butt seismograph' must be calibrated differently than most.. :lol ""Maybe I'm just a little more tolerant (or "too easy"), or maybe my 450--2552 is in a little more of a sweet spot on ride than some of the lighter units, but I have been pretty happy in each case with what I've experienced."" (WH) Hard to say... but if he and someone else had the same app, and both had data from I-10 (or some other road in common) anyone could see from the data if there was any quantitative difference between the rides!
Same thing with my rig and RonD's 2350. Except that mine has that abomination known as a 'slide' they are pretty much identical. ( I am teasing you Ron! :-D I used the other big reaction word, 'AC', so wanted to hit all the bases)
He had to add many aftermarket suspension pieces to make the handing of his coach feel safe. They worked so well he is a staunch advocate for them, and feels that they are near necessary for a good handling coach. And there is nothing in his results that would suggest otherwise. But here I am, towing a tandem trailer at higher speeds, and I am very pleased with the handling and ride. LIke MikeH, I would say ""Maybe I'm just a little more tolerant (or "too easy"), or maybe my E350-2350 is in a little more of a sweet spot on ride than some of the other units, but I have been pretty happy in each case with what I've experienced.""
""For what ever reason it seems people want to look for an easy way to dismiss an issue away."" well...sure! Who doesnt like an easy quick answer?!? But this topic is far from easily dismissed, I have seen solutions from $100-$10,000 proposed! Its just the idea that with real data, real solutions are easier to determine. Or as it was put so well,
There is an old saying “ If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it”.
Lets measure it, see if we can work together even when we are far apart, and come to a solution! Or find there is no solution and its all subjective. :)(:
I have the app installed on my phone, but cant find it. roflol I need a teenager to assist...
Gonna be interesting. I will scout out a few good rough roads, and be able to do before and after comparisons. See EXACTLY what 2" drop and 15% lower rate does for the ride in front, for example. Besides looking cool. ;) (I know...subjective!) Not a 'Feels really good now, and I think its tighter in the turns! ' report. A "over the same road, I experienced a 20% drop in the force of the bumps in the cab" report.
Another 'want to do' experiment once I can measure accurately...
Take the bottom mount off the front shocks, zip tie them out of the way, and CAREFULLY try the bumpy road again... how much does the shock contribute to ride stiffness? I see many references for 'upgrading' to KYB/KONI etc. That was a big deal in the VW world, and KYB GAS-A-JUST were supposedly 'The KIng.' ALL the articles said so. They were 'performance firm' and did increase road feel! Well... My butt liked the silky ride of the Monroe-matic, a 'cheap / common' shock with none of the sexy European name appeal... and I sold a lot of them (Monroe-matics) to fellow bus owners after I ditched my KYB's. Thats in a vehicle where you sit ON the front wheel, and NOT known for handling, so ride quality is pretty easy to feel. Be interested to see if the MM shock on the E350 gives measurable differences. And ~$40 for a pair, wont break the bank finding out.
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We had a 30 foot Sunline travel trailer that had ducted a/c. It was loud on high but quiet on low fan speed. The PC air fan seems to have two settings; high and higher. If the PC air fan would have a lower setting that could make a big difference on noise. I have been in a Coachhouse with the air on. CH has ducted air. But the noise was loud like the PC.
Does the Houghton have a low air fan speed?
Ron
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I have decibel readings but most aren’t interested in those readings. As far a as subjective goes as AC as a reference ... anyone who has experienced the houghton in mine has been amazed. That being said they are not perfect, they too have a con or two. One being that are not a good option on larger Rv’s where the driver wants to run the gen and have a ac unit running. These have two matched speed balanced fans so at highway speeds they will throw a error code. Doesn’t hurt but they won’t run due to it.
I will not recommend this ac to anyone. I wouldn’t own another rv with roof mount ac without houghton but I won’t recommend it to anyone else.
As far as a rough ride. On this trip we had two drawers, one was empty that the bottom of the drawers dropped out. Of course part of the problem is regarding build quality considering the drawers are stapled together. None the less that’s the kind of hammering the suspension in mine gives. If your rides smooth, I’m both happy for you and wish mine did.
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Here's a bit of data with comparisons of the Houghton vs. Penquin and Coleman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKTU641d7lE
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Here's a bit of data with comparisons of the Houghton vs. Penquin and Coleman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKTU641d7lE
roflol
I accept full responsibility for the derailment of this thread with the mention of 'AC noise' a few posts back. Sorta like mentioning the Klan or Antifa, :help
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I am thinking of ordering my new 2350 with an extra slide and two water tanks under the bed.... any advice?
Counting on you Ron.*.......... I dont want to go to politics.. :beg
Um....How about {insert favorite sports team here} playing like they are? Huh? Whats their chances this year?
Whats rougher... the ride in a E450 or the medicare approval process? :lol
I am STILL looking for that app on my phone... >( I can TIG coke cans together, but not get this app on my smartphone. (WH)
heartshower HAPPY SATURDAY folks! tymote Hope its a blessed day for all. ((hug))
* :-D Dont you DARE take that as an insult Ron, you know its a friendly joke. :)(: Like asking me for a brief reply.... hi5
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:) Volkemon :)
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It sounds as if I may be able to achieve a "softer" ride in my 2350/E-450 by running tires below maximum inflation. Based on my weight ticket (attached) and load table here - https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf -it seems I should easily be able to run fronts at 55-60# and rear dualies at 65#. I'm wondering if anyone else is/has done this and what the results in ride comfort, handling and/or tire life were for you?
Thanks everyone for your posts and comments. I went to a CAT Scale yesterday and my 2019 E450 2350 has 3600LB in the front and 8720LB in the rear. Total 12,320. (full water tank, empty gray and black)
So I guess I need to review the previous chart provided and determine the correct air pressure in front and rear vs going by the place card info?
Also, it appears because I have to have 90LB in my rear heavy duty air bags to keep them off the inside block (per Bob at Elkhart Hitch). The rear it not sagging and when you go over a long dip, you can tell the rear air bags are helping, so not convince they are contributing to the overall rough ride especially since most of the rough is experienced in the front. Hard to say. I plan to call Elkhart Hitch this morning and share the rear weight and see if he has any other comments related to the bags.
If you own model 2350 of any model year with or without a slide out, and you are putting in the maximum 80 PSI in your tires, that will surely give you a ride of torture to you and your house. The only benefit to having so much air in the tires will be for improved fuel economy.
RJW365's axle weight numbers seems right to me. Your front axle is roughly 350 pounds heavier than ours due to the placement of your fresh water tank and also that you have a slide out. Adjusting your tire pressure to match your actual load will make a really big difference for the better. Just BE SURE to use a trusted tire gauge. If it is not a digital tire gauge, I would compare it to one.
90 PSI in those additional rear axle-mounted air bags sounds like a whole lot of extra PSI yielding a much rougher ride. I recall with our previous motor home, the air bags of a different brand required a minimum of 15 PSI to prevent damage to them. If you have an E450, I advise to research the minimum requirement for your rear air bags and set them to that minimum during a good long trip, and see what you learn from that PSI setting. If you own an E350 with lower-rated rear springs and are leveling your rig with air bags, that is a different situation.
About the Phoenix supplied tire label in the door jamb. For our 2007 PC 2350, the recommendation is real close to my actual load requirement. I think most of my troubles in past years was related to bad tire gauges providing inaccurate readings by as much as 9 PSI.
It is interesting that the front axle load rating for the E350 and E450 are identical. They have identical coil springs and all. The difference in their load rating is all related to the rear axle. So if you have a short PC with a light weight front axle, your E350 or E450 front suspension is going to make for a rough ride up front. So MAKE SURE your front tires are not over-inflated.
Ron, thanks for the reply and details! Much appreciated. The tires installed on the 2019 2350 E450 are Hankook. Tire size is LT225/75R16E. I will definitely be reviewing the tire pressure ratings and have always used Acutire digital gauges. The pressure rating on the PC card is 75 front and 80 rear which is what I have inflated but appears this is part of my problem. The heavy duty version of the air bags on my E450 may also be attributing to the problem. My previous RV 2018 2100 had the standard air bags and keeping 30LB was perfect. Since we jumped to E450 they wanted to use the heavy bag with a safety block in the bag to prevent tear. If less than 90LB the damn block is hitting and not helping the rear ride. I have an active conversation with Elkhart about the pressure ratings in those bags to support the vehicle rear weight. My 2350 does have a slide out with fridge and couch. Thanks again and I will update again when I have any new information.
Ah, I understand about your air bags. You MUST add 90 PSI to prevent internal bottoming-out. Good that you are working with Phoenix on it. I understand why you had rear air bags on your previous 2100, an effort to lift the rear to level it along with improved handling. Why did you add them on your E450 2350? Did you think...."They helped before so they should help on my new rig?" I would consider removing them.
About the Phoenix supplied tire pressure sticker. The recommended 75 PSI in the front and 80 PSI in the rear sounds like a lot more air than your load requires. Maybe they accidentally placed the wrong sticker. Ask Phoenix about that. Maybe they can sent you the right sticker. Your numbers should be around 60-65 PSI.
Back to air bags. Our old rig with air bags was proportioned similar to model 2100, a short rig with a large rear over-hang. CLICK HERE TO SEE IT (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157621472936441) The air bags with lots of air stabilized it and lifted it a few inches. But the ride was rough with a lot of air. So I adjusted more air or less air as the driving conditions required. If you look at the picture taken through the driver's door, you can see the air bag control unit with air gauge, located by the driver's left knee. One button turned on the air pump. The other button let out air. Another picture showing the battery compartment & converter, also shows the air compressor.
I recently found out the actual limit of the Air Lift bags is 5000LB and 7500LB for the heavy duty bags. So this means what I have on the vehicle is already over weighted thus the issues with pressure, etc.. Needless to say we are taking the RV back to Elkhart Hitch at the end of the month to remove the Air Lift system. They agreed is was a mistake and are refunding. While I am having the bags taken off, I am going to have the KONI FSD installed. They have to better than the factory shocks and have researched that is seems I cannot go wrong? Right? I will call PC and review the tire weight and sticker they have installed in our 2019 2350.
Thanks Ron and everyone for all the great comments. I be sure to share how things go after the bags are removed. We start a 3 week trip out west the next day so can only pray all goes as expected.
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Rjw, best of luck with the fsd Koni shocks. They didn’t pan out for me. The ride is jarring to say the least. Now there is a chance mine are bad and Koni says if I have my receipt they will replace them. I’m hoping that’s the case and hoping I can find or obtain a copy of my receipt.
If you haven’t purchased yet I’d suggest calling Koni first. I see on their web site they also list a shock called the EVO 99. No idea if it might be a better option for the E450 but it might be worth the time to ask.
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Rjw, best of luck with the fsd Koni shocks. They didn’t pan out for me. The ride is jarring to say the least. Now there is a chance mine are bad and Koni says if I have my receipt they will replace them. I’m hoping that’s the case and hoping I can find or obtain a copy of my receipt.
If you haven’t purchased yet I’d suggest calling Koni first. I see on their web site they also list a shock called the EVO 99. No idea if it might be a better option for the E450 but it might be worth the time to ask.
Thanks I will update again soon.
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It seems to be asking a lot of Koni-FSD shocks to smooth out the rough ride of a 2350/E450. But I sure hope it is the magic bullet for you.
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Thanks to input from Ron (and others) I decreased the psi in (E450, 2014 - PC 2350 with slide) to 62# front, 65# rear. This, along with my Koni FSD shocks have made my E450 ride like a passenger car. Other info -
Shocks were installed 6 months ago along with Roadmaster front & rear sway bars and Roadmaster steering damper. Front end was aligned (needed new, taller adjusters) and BFGoodrich commercial tires have about 6,000 miles in now. Prior to decreasing psi the ride was as jarring as before upgrades, now it's 100% improved. This on a vehicle approaching 100,000 miles!
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Dog yard, man do I envy you, the fsd didn’t help me a bit. I wish I had more knowledge on suspensions. It might be an easy fix if I knew what I was looking at.
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dogyard,
I am very happy to read that you made a significant difference in the ride of your E450/2350.
Just for reference, here is my 2007 E350 with an 11,500 GVWR, 158" wheel base and an over-all length of 23'-8". At a glance, you can see the entire house of model 2350 rests on the rear axle. I also noted the "big-hitters" of our load. Because of the spare tire and fresh water tank in the far back, the teeter-totter effect is notable as seen in the picture. The front end is slightly lifted. Our front axle is under-loaded while the rear axle is at it's limit, once being a little over the GAWR limit. The actual weight numbers are taken from a truck scale.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48533409317_0b01673426_z.jpg)
As I previously mentioned, I will soon experiment replacing my E350 front coil springs with lower-rated ones with hopes to lower the front a bit to level the rig, along with providing a softer ride up front. I am trying E150 front coil springs because as seen in the diagram, the front axle isn't carrying much of anything at all. It carries less than an E150 van front axle GAWR.
Many people don't realize that the E350 and the E450 have the same front GAWR. All of the difference in load is related to the rear leaf springs and the thicker frame of the E450 chassis to carry it. The front suspension including the front coil springs are identical between the E350 Super-Duty chassis and E450 chassis. So my stock E350 front suspension offers a rougher ride than you with longer PCs that place more weight on the front suspension.