Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Doneworking on July 16, 2019, 03:15:54 pm
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Here is a strange one. All the fixtures and everything else works in our PC. The two tube fixture in the center of the ceiling in front of the refrigerator has quit working. I assumed a bad bulb. Nope. Bad fixture? Nope.
I took the fixture out, bench tested it and it works fine. The problem is no 12v in the two wires going to the fixture. These wires are pigtailed and the power supply comes out of a hole in the ceiling behind the fixture. The wiring is located in the metal channel that supports the roof as is a lot of the wiring in a PC. No voltage or current in these two wires, hooked up who knows where and my only conclusion is a loose connection somewhere behind a wall, in the roof channel etc. Every thing else works and so did this light on our last trip a month ago. I can only assume normal road vibration dislocated a connection and created an open circuit.
Fuse? No. Each 12v fuse in the control panel runs several things at once on this model and everything is operative except no juice to this fixture.
Anyone got an idea?
Paul
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Check the other light fixtures and see if there are wires in and wires out. The feed to that fixture has to come from someplace.
There are two options:
1) The connection is broken at one of the other fixtures - locate and repair, might just be a loose wire nut.
2) The connection is broken in the wall or ceiling to which you have no access - you still need to find the feed and either disconnect to prevent a short or replace the wire.
It would be against code to have a connection or splice in a location that is not accessible. Not saying that isn't done, just that it is a really poor way of doing things and against code.
I would start by opening up any other access point or fixture and try to see if you can find where the feed comes from for that fixture.
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:-D Color me stupid. I admit it. Dumber than dirt.
There is a switch which I NEVER use down by the steps. It is labeled "CEILING" and is designed so that you can leave on a light, turn it off as you exit the coach, activate it when you enter the coach so you don't have to enter the darkness and find the a light switch. I am sure every PC has this little panel down near the floor by the door. Well, this goof forgot about it and apparently had inadvertently activated it when I moved some stuff into the coach.
No problem, just stupidity. I have only owned this baby for six years in September so you can't expect me to know much. pyho (WH)
(a red faced) Paul
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You have no idea how many times that has happened to me. The wife has a habit of turning that fixture off with the ceiling switch and then the door switch doesn't work. So I hit the door switch and nothing happens. Or I hit the door switch and then the ceiling switch doesn't work.
That fixture should be on a 3 way circuit the way they have it set up. But of course it isn't.
Glad you got it "fixed" :)
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So you don't feel so bad, I just had that "wait a minute" moment as I read your comments thinking about a light that "went dark" on the last camping trip. Sure enough, the switch had been thrown at the step even though I know we never intentionally did that during the trip!
It was on my to do list to tear into it to figure it out. You saved me from that! Thanks! :-D
(I may have to disable that switch!) >(
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Gandalf42, you wrote: (I may have to disable that switch!) >(
Super glue occurred to me!! No, I bet I remember that puppy next time. It is often the simple that is the most complex and perplexing. I do have something of an excuse. Our PC is in the driveway with me doing some stuff to it and the heat index in OKC today is 106. Maybe what little that remains of my brain is fried.
Paul
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Probably be best if I just got around to labeling those switches sometime
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What I want to know is, who thought it was a great idea to mount light switches at the floor level????
Are there a lot of really short people in Elkhart?
Doug
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Our 2007 2350 does not have such a switch by the entry door. Phoenix must have added it sometime thereafter.
Hey Doneworking, If you ever want to say goodbye to your florescent lighting, going with LED for more light, flicker-free light, warmer light, and done so using 1/3 the power, you might find what I did of interest. Instead of replacing all nine of our florescent fixtures, I converted them to LED. I did so primarily to avoid scars everywhere from a change in fixtures. I was extremely pleased with the results. I went the extra step to replace the 2 position light switch, with a 3 position switch to control a mood light I added inside each fixture. If you are not well skilled in electrical wiring and soldering, keep it simple, just keep your original white 2 position switch for an extremely easy conversion.
CLICK HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2186.0.html) for the write-up with pictures. The pictures of the lighting does not do it justice. My camera couldn't capture it right.
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What I want to know is, who thought it was a great idea to mount light switches at the floor level????
I think it is supposed to be a convenience when exiting or entering. But the switch is really poorly placed for anyone who isn't crawling up the steps.
They also mounted my solar charger and read outs there. So to see if the solar is working I have open the door, go outside then lay down on the bottom step with my knees on the folding step outside. Makes perfect sense to me. roflol
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Jatrax,
Well that sounds handy... sorry ,but for 50' of wire they could have done it right. Why would any company choose that poorly?
Doug
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sorry ,but for 50' of wire they could have done it right. Why would any company choose that poorly?
No answer to that except that the person installing it was viewing it from his perspective, not that of the end user. So he put it in the most convenient place for him to install it. That is not uncommon in lots of manufacturing areas. And like you said for next to nothing they could have made it very easy to read. They just never thought about because the people on the line are professional RV builders, not RV users.
I am in the process of building a new house and the same thing is going on there. I'm watching them like a hawk because so many things can be done in several ways at the same cost. But by putting it "here" instead of "there" you save me 10 steps every day for the rest of my life. But to the guy installing it, putting it "there" instead of "here" costs him 10 steps, once. So which place is he going to put it? The place that saves him 10 steps unless I'm standing there watching. :-D
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Jatrax, you have more patience than this kid. I have built several houses and several commercial buildings and I am done. We built our home 22 years ago and had a great builder and he had great craftsmen. I built a small office building a few years ago and said never again. You are right. You have to watch them like a hawk or they will do the easy and not the right. To them it is a job but to you it is a home. And that makes all the difference.
Ron, you are right. Would you believe I am converting the fluorescent fixtures to LED now. I remember reading your posts about your conversion. I am doing something simple and using the existing fixtures, removing the bulbs and replacing with LED panels. They do make a lot of difference and I just came inside from checking today's work in the dark. Given the heat, I think I may postpone the rest of them to fall. Our heat index hit 108 today. The AC in the PC just can't keep up with that kind of heat sitting out in the driveway. Once the sun settles in the west enough for the PC to catch some shade from a huge oak, I can tolerate working inside the coach. I enjoy these kinds of projects but would like to enjoy them, not tolerate them so it probably will be a couple of months before I do more lights. Four down, more to go.
Paul
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Ron, you are right. Would you believe I am converting the fluorescent fixtures to LED now. I remember reading your posts about your conversion. I am doing something simple and using the existing fixtures, removing the bulbs and replacing with LED panels. They do make a lot of difference and I just came inside from checking today's work in the dark. Given the heat, I think I may postpone the rest of them to fall. Our heat index hit 108 today. The AC in the PC just can't keep up with that kind of heat sitting out in the driveway. Once the sun settles in the west enough for the PC to catch some shade from a huge oak, I can tolerate working inside the coach. I enjoy these kinds of projects but would like to enjoy them, not tolerate them so it probably will be a couple of months before I do more lights. Four down, more to go.
Paul
Good For You! I am sure you will appreciate the results of your labor.....and your batteries will too.
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Jatrax, you have more patience than this kid. I have built several houses and several commercial buildings and I am done.
The first house I built was in 1981. Started it in March, got married in September and moved in 3 days after the wedding. Things were a little different back then. I had friends and neighbors in the trades and we basically built the house on hamburgers and beer. The only thing I actually paid to have done was the septic system, we did everything else evenings and weekends. Of course it took another 7 years to finish it after we moved in but I never had a mortgage.
This time around we are hiring a builder, things are too complex and rule bound these days. They would never let you do it like we did back then. And on reflection almost all of the people who helped me build that first house are gone now. Man what a crew that was. We had several WWII vets including one SeaBee. There wasn't anything those guys couldn't do.
I am real happy with our builder so far. They are professional to a degree that really surprises me. I mean they really know what they are doing and take great pride in getting the little details right. But they don't know what's in my head so that's why I watch them, so things get put where I want.
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Re: odd placement of switches and panels - they cluster them so everything is in one or two places. In our 2552, that is the driver side wing wall or the step well. My opinion is that the on board solar would be better on the wing wall. We hope to add panels on the roof and I'll definitely specify that placement now that I've read this post. If it has to be closer to the battery, it could go by the switches for the slide.
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What I want to know is, who thought it was a great idea to mount light switches at the floor level????
I think it is supposed to be a convenience when exiting or entering. But the switch is really poorly placed for anyone who isn't crawling up the steps.
They also mounted my solar charger and read outs there. So to see if the solar is working I have open the door, go outside then lay down on the bottom step with my knees on the folding step outside. Makes perfect sense to me. roflol
John, speaking of hard to see solar chargers. Couldn't initially find mine on my '19 2552 -- finally located it under the sink, inside the cabinet, behind a carpeted panel fastened to the left side cabinet wall. I looked there initially because I knew it should be very close to the batteries to minimize cable length. Turns out not to be a big problem with my unit, however. I don't remember which controller you have, but I think Phoenix may have used the Samlex on your build. By late 2018 they had transitioned to the Trimetric SC-2030 Solar Charge Controller (which mates up with the TM-2030 Battery Monitor). The SC-2030 only has a couple of indicator lights on it--and those are primarily for troubleshooting purposes. Readouts show up on the TM-2030, which they mounted with the other data indicators on the side wall behind the driver seat.
Mike
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Mike,
I was probably the reason for that transition. I wanted the Trimetric SC-2030, actually even bought one and shipped it to them but when I picked up the rig they had lost my SC-2030 and just used the Samlex one. We had a discussion about that. :)
Anyway, glad they are doing it doing it right now. I am quite happy with the solar install as far as how it works. The location of the read out panel is inconvenient but I can live with it.
John
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I had asked them for a Trimetric and they refused. They only would do the Samlex which I didn't want. Interesting that they later switched to the Trimetric.
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I think at the time of our builds solar was not something they had much experience at. So the Samlex "kit" was easy and got the pesky customers off their back. I requested the Trimetric and so did you as well as others if I remember the forum talk around then. PC may be slow to change but they do listen and with more solar installs they went with what the customers were asking for.
Just my take on the situation. If I ever get really bored I might take out the Samlex and replace it with a Trimetric. But since the Samlex appears to work just fine, that is way down on the to do list.
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I think you're on the money in your assessment, John. And I'm not surprised to hear that your Samlex setup is working well. They've been in RV electronics (including solar) for a while, and their "kits" should have been a pretty reliable solution for adding solar. I imagine (with maybe no previous solar experience) that's why Phoenix adopted them initially and stayed pretty rigidly with that complete setup. As you say, as they got more familiar and comfortable with solar systems, they were more willing to expand to other components.
I have to say that the system using the Trimetric controller and monitor has been seamless in it's performance so far. I have finally quit periodically looking at my battery monitor to check battery status since with my unit parked where it receives some sun during the day, the house batteries are always at 100% (unless I have just used a substantial load for a period for some reason--and then they come back up quickly). So far, in my limited experience with this rig, between the solar set-up and the AGM batteries, my 12-volt house battery system is the furthermost thing from my mind. The day may come when I have to eat those words, but so far--it's just there,it needs no attention, it's always fully charged, and it just works. I bet your system with the AGM's and Samlex is much the same--the major difference may be that with the Samlex controller and Trimetric battery monitor you have two places to look for readouts, where with the Trimetric system I have only one.
Mike
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We are working to set up service with Phoenix for things we've broken (it's been a bad year for user error and a lousy repair shop.) I want solar on the roof and John finally agrees. I'm looking for opinions - go with Phoenix package and install or wait until we get to the west coast where someone posted there is a great company in Portland Oregon (or some such) that does RV solar?
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AMSolar is in Eugene, OR about 100 miles south of Portland. Their entire business is focussed upon solar, battery, and RV electrical systems. I can't compare them against PC other than they focus on these systems, use multiple different suppliers and will build a system based upon what you ask them to do.
The downside is you need to book an appointment well in advance.
I am happy with their installation of solar on my RV. I had planned to have them change the RV over to Lithium this summer but had to cancel the appointment due to a change in plans.
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I'll second AM Solar, they have an outstanding and well deserved reputation. I spoke with them on the phone several times when I was putting my coach build together. They were extremely knowledgeable and helpful to someone who was just an unknown on the phone. The timing did not work for me back then so we went with Phoenix and despite that not going the way I thought it was going to I'm satisfied with the install.
I believe Phoenix will also do a good job at this point. If you want the maximum "cutting edge" solar then go with AM Solar. If all you need is "it just works" solar then Phoenix is fine. When I spoke to AM Solar they were booked out a minimum of three months but that was several years ago so their schedule could be quite different now.
Like MikeH says I no longer worry about the coach batteries because the solar always keeps them up. I really bought the solar for boondocking but I've found the real advantage to me (since I'm not full time) is that I don't have to worry about battery maintenance as long as the coach is parked in the sun.
I also installed a Trik-L-Start 5 Amp Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer (https://www.amazon.com/AM-Solar-CHGR-TRIK-Trik-L-Start-Maintainer/dp/B07FD49X14/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=Trik-L-Start+5+Amp+Starting+Battery+Charger%2FMaintainer&qid=1564079767&s=gateway&sr=8-5) so the chassis battery is maintained by the coach battery which is charged by the solar.
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Thank you! Our goal is to reach the west coast and spend some time next year (actually the goal was this year but the travel club reunion is in Charleston so we didn't get there.) Next year's reunion is in the west (Pacific or Mountain time) so the stars seem to be aligning.
I'd rather go cutting edge and more experience. AM Solar sounds perfect. We are full time and I've got John to finally be somewhat willing to dry camp for extended periods. Our little portable solar panel works well and we'll keep it for a while at least to add on when we are parked in shade. Panel in the sun, people and rig in the shade.
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I misspoke a touch when I said they are in Eugene, OR. They are actually in Springfield, an adjacent town to the east. Be advised the entry to the shop comes up quickly with little warning.
A small thing I liked was that they have a 2nd story view window and pulled in the RV and used cardboard templates laid out on the roof so I could see how the panels would be laid out. It gives you a chance to visualize it and approve it beforehand, i.e. to review can you still walk across the roof and will there be any shading issues.
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Excellent, thank you! I'll ask for the roof strut template for our2552 when we are Phoenix next month. That may help with layout also.