Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarz272000 on July 02, 2019, 12:24:44 pm
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We are considering two vehicles for four down. 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk or 2014 Honda CRV. Both appear to be good to tow behind the PC.
The Honda is used and has a Roadmaster InvisiBrake installed. Anyone use this braking system? Good? Bad? Seems to make setup easier.
The Jeep would be a new install. They seem to have solved the wobble problem with a wire harness.
We have a Blue Ox tow bar and Patriot brake system which could be used.
Any comments on either vehicle or the systems to use appreciated. This decision is driving me crazy!
Ron
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Ron,
First, the feedback I can provide from direct experience:
--I tow a 2019 Cherokee Trailhawk. Super tow vehicle in my opinion. The 2019's are the first models that DO have the previous "death wobble" issue fixed internally--no need for the previous separately installed wiring harness to prevent the issue. I've got over 4000 miles of seamless towing on my rig so far--easy to pull and easy to handle--I'm very happy with it. (Do like Honda as well--previous owner of Accords and Civics--think the CRV would make a great tow).
--Since I had no previous RV towing experience (although I had previously towed trailers) I did extensive review and research on towing setups before I committed to one. My arrangement is Blue Ox baseplates, a Roadmaster Nighthawk towbar, and the SMI Stay-In-Play Duo brake system. I really like the Stay-In-Play Duo. I knew I wanted a permanently installed brake system, since I didn't want to have to move the brake system in and out of the tow vehicle and adjust it each time I hooked and unhooked the tow. The S-I-P provides a permanent, out of sight installation--you never know it's there, and to tow you just hook up the towbar and flip one switch in the Jeep. Has progressive and proportional braking--it applies the toad brakes at the same level you're applying the RV brakes. Requires two signals to activate the toad brakes--first the RV brake system must activate and then the accelerometer must sense deceleration--so eliminates inadvertent applications of the toad brakes. I have been highly satisfied with the effectiveness of the braking of my rig and how it performs.
I have no experience with the Roadmaster InvisiBrake. It is a permanently installed system like the Stay-In-Play and uses some of the same type components. From what I can gather from a quick look, two differences that seem to be in place are that it does not provide truly "proportional" braking (by use of an accelerometer), but instead when brakes are activated ramps up braking in steps to the maximum of a preset level (which you can adjust). Also, it apparently is activated simply by the same electrical signal that turns on the RV brake lights. There do seem to be some complaints online regarding inadvertent brake applications, but there are also a lot of positive comments. Maybe someone else on the forum has used that system and can provide first hand impressions.
I assume, between your two listed choices, the 2019 Trailhawk with a new tow install would demand a greater cash outlay than the used CRV with tow capability already present. That might be a pretty major factor in your decision. Also, the CRVs are very solid and popular units; I know they make great tows because I see a lot of them in use. However what I can say with no reservation is that I am delighted with my decision to go with the Trailhawk. I'll be the first to report any problems or shortfalls that surface, but based on the somewhat limited 4000 mile experience I've had so far, I can completely recommend the setup I'm using.
All the best, Mike
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Our tow brake is "UNIFIED" By US Gear (http://www.usgear.cc/unified_tow_brake.htm). I installed it myself and it stays put in the tow vehicle and is out of sight. Under the driver seat is a large solenoid with a cable hidden under the carpet that is always attached to the brake pedal from behind. I consider it a fairly decent system. The little brake controller on the RV dash board changes the sensitivity as to "when" the brake is activated. It might have inertia-sensitive-progressive-braking but ours always works like an all-or-nothing system, braking fairly well but not too much if you understand my point. I personally like to set the sensitivity to apply the tow vehicle brake with mild RV braking. Doing so helps slow down the motor home under more conditions which I appreciate. My setting is harder on the tow vehicle brakes, but I do all my own brake work so increased brake pad and rotor wear on the tow vehicle is of no concern.
I don't know if the other tow vehicle brakes systems have this, but I really appreciate the Unified's vacuum pump under the hood of our tow vehicle. It keeps the power brake booster fully charged so the braking system offers great braking power.
CLICK HERE (http://www.usgear.cc/utb_install/utbcomponentstvhlo.htm) to see the wiring diagram. It was initially a bit intimidating for me, but it really wasn't so difficult in the end.
If I were to replace tow vehicles, I would remove the Unified system from our old vehicle and install it in the new one. If buying a new braking system, I would do my research again and get the best system. I assume there is something better out there that I did not find back in 2010 when I bought and installed the Unified.
I reused our Roadmaster Falcon-II tow bar from our previous tow vehicle, and bought Roadmaster's Jeep Liberty tow bar bracket kit and Unified system very cheap on Ebay. They were overstock items at an RV and hitch dealership. As I recall, the tow bar bracket kit was missing some hardware. A simple call to Roadmaster's customer service quickly got me what I needed.
Our Roadmaster towing system works fine with no complaints. I like it but many people endorse the Blue Ox system which intrigues me. I would compare the two brands and then make a better educated decision.
Ron Dittmer
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Roadmaster InvisiBrake installed
We have that system on our rig and have had no issues. it is "invisible" to the user mostly. :) They installed it under the driver's seat and I just put the floor mat back on covering it up so no one even knows it is there.
We tow a 2017 Cherokee, (not trail hawk) and have to deal with the anti-wobble harness. It really is not a big deal, just a couple extra steps when hooking up or unhooking. But I am glad they have a real fix for the 2019 model.
I like the Cherokee and it has been a good tow. The CRV's are also well recommended so I do not think you will go wrong with either. Just a matter of cost and if you want new or used. I almost bought an older Jeep Liberty based on Ron's comments on his but it was 10 years old and I decided with the cost of adding the tow equipment I would just go new. The 2017 will last us as long as we can travel so it is primarily dedicated as our tow vehicle. I use it as my daily driver but I really don't drive much so I'm not adding many miles to it.
@MikeH Do you need to do anything on your 2019 Cherokee for the anti-wobble or is it automatic?
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John,
As I mentioned somewhere else in a much earlier post, I don't actually know exactly what Jeep did to the 2019's to correct the wobble issue. They may have done it electrically with a modification to the wiring harness, or I have seen speculation that they added some sort of dampning to the steering that prevents the wobble from initiating. In any case, there is no operator action involved, and Jeep does not address the issue in any way--whatever they did works automatically. There is a tech paper out from Jeep (though not a formal technical bulletin) that states that the prior wiring harness requirement in place for earlier models does not apply to the 2019 models. In addition, the warnings that were previously in the owner's manual addressing the requirement to install the wiring harness prior to towing the Jeep have been removed for the 2019's. There were "reports" of imminent corrections for the problem for the previous 2 or 3 years--that the 2016, 2017, then 2018 models would have the wobble issue fixed--like you, I'm happy that they finally got it done for 2019.
Mike
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We tow a 2014 Honda CRV and are very pleased with it. Unfortunately Honda chose to make a change to 2015 and later models that do not allow them to be towed. For a braking system I installed a Stay-In-Play duo and am definitely happy with it as well. As someone already said, your decision is primarily driven by whether you want a used toad or a new one. Can't go wrong with either choice.
Gary
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Thank you so much for your feedback. I see the desire to use a more permanent brake system. Less time to hook up and consistent performance.
We have a 2014 Escape that would require a dolly. The combine weight with gas, bikes and kayaks would be about 4600-4700lbs. That is little too close for me to 5000 lb limit. So the CRV or Cherokee would replace the Escape. I love Honda’s but that upgrade may not get me anything better that the Escape except Four down. Especially since they are running $17,000-$20,500 for a 2014 with lower miles. New Cherokee has good deals now and is 4x4 along with 4500 lb towing with the package. I will look at both to see how they fit and if we like them before choosing one.
In the back of my mind I still considering Chevy sonic of Ford Focus. But not sure about either. They would require an extra car and would not replace the Escape.....decisions decisions..
Oh I retired May 1st and loving it!
Ron
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I'm reading this thread with interest. I tow a 2012 GMC Terrain. I bought it because- 1) I liked it; 2) It was listed by FMCA as being towable 4-down, 3) The owners manual specifically stated it was towable and gave specific instructions to prepare it for towing. Not once did I consider how much the car weighed...it's a mid-size car. Don't misunderstand, I wouldn't tow a full size Hummer, because it is obviously too heavy. In short, buy the mid-size toad you want, have the tow bar of your choice installed, hook it up and roll.
Finally, how many instances has anyone heard or read where a motorhome's hitch was ripped off the chassis or damaged because of towing a car too heavy?
Cheers and Happy 4th of July :)(:
Barry T
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Checkout the Ready Brute Elite system. No electronics.
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Mikey
Thanks for your comments. How do you activate lights for the Jeep when brake applied? Do you use a drop hitch for the Jeep? Or is it a straight shot.
Ron
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Ron,
As you know, the Trailhawk sits measurably higher than a standard Cherokee (due to the increased ground clearance that Jeep employs on the "Trail Rated" units). Because of the extra height, I'm using a Blue Ox hitch adapter that raises the standard center line of the RV receiver 2.5 inches. The stock angle wasn't super severe, but enough that correcting it was the right thing to do--a standard Cherokee would not have needed the adjustment.
Electrically, power routes back to the Jeep from the standard connector on the RV to a six-pin connector at the Jeep front--provides power for the lights, the brake system operation, and even a trickle charge for the Jeep battery if needed (but since the Jeep battery is not in use in any way, no reason for it to deplete). In my installation, rear turn/brake lighting is provided by separate bulbs installed in the standard Jeep taillight housings that are fed from a small custom wire harness that just plugs into the regular Jeep harness--rear lighting while in tow bypasses the standard Jeep lighting entirely. I like the arrangement--it keeps factory appearance on the outside and everything in the original Jeep housings for weatherproof operation. I can't tell the difference between the original Jeep lighting and the add-in lights when watching from the rear--they look identical.
All the best, Mike
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Sarz272000 - Just back from our cross country trip to AZ and NM. The new Buick Envision towed flawlessly, 4800 miles 22 days, most at 70 mph on the interstates. Six days out, four days back and 12 days in various camps racing bikes and recreating.
Only the highest passes in the Rockies slowed our progress which sent the tranny hunting for gears sometimes as many as three downshifts. Help is on the way though, I just received the 5 Star Tuning chip to find more horse power, torque and better shifting patterns. Not yet installed so I don't have any feed back at this time.
Our Blue Ox towing system worked perfectly as well, baseplate, Accent tow bar and the Patriot 2 braking system (which takes all of 30 seconds to either install or remove) made the towing easier than expected. We left the toad connected for each of the traveling legs and disconnected when at our final destination. Had the weight certified along the way and the Buick full of bikes and gear weighed 3995 lbs, front axle of our 2552 an even 9000 lbs and the rear axle 13,450 lbs. The front axle is at spec for the coach however we have a 4x4 with a front differential and transfer case together with larger brakes, sway bars and springs. Quigley also upgrades all the wheels and tires to accommodate the heavier front and rear running gear. Axle ratios are also a little lower giving the coach a bit more power albeit at the cost of fuel economy.
All in all our set up performed better than we ever expected, if it wasn't for the two rear cameras reminding us, we would have forgot the car was connected. Once when stopping for fuel I caught a glimpse of the car in my side view mirror and said to the Mrs. why is that jerk tailgating us so close. roflol
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Sarz272000 - Please disregard the vehicle weights from my first post today, My memory was way off. Front axle 5000 lbs, rear axle 8840 lbs. and the toad 4100 lbs. grand total 17,940 lbs. well under the max. - Dick
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Mike
Thanks for your input on the Trailhawk. Sharing your research is very helpful. Why reinvent the wheel!
Dick
I didn’t realize you have a 4x4. That is one fine unit. Thanks for your input on pulling the Buick. I have a patriot system so will use that initially and see how that goes. But sounds like it may work fine. That was one heck of a trip. I am not ready for mountains yet. Maybe some day.
Now we will drive some vehicles and make a decision. I want to replace our escape with this vehicle so it must do double duty.
Ron
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As a side note, is there anyone who towed four down for say a few years and went to no toad?
We really want to go to a one car household so considering selling our toad and going without. I met some rv’s on This last trip who rent a car on occasion when they felt the need. I hate the thought of rolling up the carpet every time we want to go see anything but I reaaaaallly want to get to one car and in doing so the smart car isn’t big enough to be our sole vehicle. Curious as to anyone who goes without a toad and has a 2552 or larger M/H.....
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Curious as to anyone who goes without a toad and has a 2552 or larger M/H.....
We have never pulled a toad. We have a 2552 (28') now and our previous RV was 28'. We have been fine with it
for our 12 years of RVn but it just depends on your style/wants.
Plusses: No need to hook/unhook, you can backup whenever you want/need to, shorter length makes parking easier.
Minusses: Difficult touring cities, top national parks are getting tough to do in an RV, more miles on the RV
Options: avoid the problem areas or rent a car
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Gandalf, Thank you. I think we will try our next big trip without and see how it goes. On this last trip there were places like pigeon forge Tennesse where we needed a car, so in those cases I’ll try renting . Renting isn’t necessarily cheap and it’s not about saving money by towing in my case.
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I'd go toadless in a heartbeat if renting wasn't such a hassle. We rented to drive into Detroit for the Ford museum a couple of years ago. Enterprise wouldn't deliver (as advertised) and the nearest rental place was 30 miles from our campground.
I hate towing, but at least the Smart car doesn't impact our fuel mileage, and it only adds about $4K and $200/yr to the absurdity of our most expensive vehicle being the one I only drive a couple of times a year. At least I don't have to drive a Smart car more than a couple of times a year! And if someone runs into it (like the first time I towed my pristine Ranger 4X4), it won't be so painful to contemplate. In fact, when I have to pay for the damage because the illegal driver who hits me doesn't have insurance, I can probably just pick up a new plastic body panel on Ebay.
By the way, there's a reason to tow that everybody forgets. You can leave your dog in air-conditioned comfort at the campground, while you visit a place that takes all day to see, like the Ford museum.
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Ron, can’t really speak to the Jeep or Honda specifically, but we used to tow a 2006 Saturn Vue AWD behind a 2006 2551, and then our current 2014 2552. Used the Invisibrake system, which worked well enough, but somewhere along the way it stopped trickle charging the battery in the Vue. The Vue started to nickel and dime us, so we replaced it with a 2018 Chevy Sonic (1.4L turbocharged 6-speed manual). Considered moving the Invisibrake to the Sonic, but the cost was going to be as much as a new Stay-n-play system. That’s what we went with along with a battery cut-off switch. We use a Falcon All-Terrain tow bar - the only thing there is the baseplate was a little difficult to install, and they had to cut 2 holes in the front fascia for the brackets. We’ve towed the Sonic about 4-5K miles and no problems other than a bad vacuum check valve. Set up to tow is a snap (the co-pilot thinks it’s easier than the Vue was 😊). And I don’t even notice that it’s back there.
George
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Blueblaze, I get it but I still want to get down to less vehicles. Also owning a smart car I do know if you get in an accident it’s going to be totaled. They are made to protect the occupants and crumple I guess. I’ve seen one that was rear ended. It really didn’t look bad at all but totaled. Could be due to they are so inexpensive to begin with?
The other option of course is finding one vehicle that I can use as a toad and for everyday use. I just have yet to find one that I like. To add to that there aren’t all that many options out there.
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I hear you Joseph! But towing a Smart car seems little less dumb than the typical solution around here in the great state of Texas -- an $80,000 pickup with dualies that gets 10mpg, 50 weeks a year -- except for the two weeks when it's lucky to make 7mpg towing a 30' trailer. Of course, the trade-off is I have to look like a weenie in a clown car for two weeks every year, instead of big, burly (and broke) stud every day.
We really looked hard at the idea of a scooter mounted on the tow hitch, but I finally had to admit we're just too old and fat for a scooter. We also tried electric bikes, but for us, even bicycles capable of 25 mph were too scary to drive on busy streets.
The Smart car was my final admission of defeat. At least you didn't waste thousands like I did, trying everything else to avoid it!
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Blue, oooo it’s not just Texas. Remember when the humve was all the rage. Orange County Ca, laguna mission viejo etc had more humvees per capital then any other place in the US. Of course those speed bumps at the Nordstrom parking lots required nothing less. LOL. Anyway, I get your drift. I’ve never considered the smart car a clown car, assumed it was too big I guess. It is easy to tow and for sight seeing and finding parking, it’s tough to beat in many circumstances. Especially when you consider how cheap they are to buy. I’ve had mine over 4 years now and honestly it really doesn’t owe me anything already compared to what other vehicles have cost me over the same period. I guess I need to rethink how long I may need a toad and consider keeping it a year or two longer before I go down to one vehicle.
Thanks for the perspective
Joseph
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If we didn't like to "explore" on primitive roads with Irene's Jeep Liberty 4x4, we would have kept our tiny MR2 Spyder tow vehicle. I imagine a Smart Car would make a great tow vehicle as well. I also hear the tiny Chevy Spark makes a friendly tow. MR2, Smart, Spark, or other small car, they surely beat bicycles or scooters for the protection from the elements and the comfort that a car with a heater and a/c provides.
We went on one trip out west without a tow vehicle. We had no trouble driving our PC 2350 everywhere, but we missed the convenience of a tow vehicle. For us, the inconvenience of towing it does not compare to the convenience in using it daily.
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Ron, I see your point. It really wasn't about any issues with towing, just trying to get by with less. I’m of the less is more type. That being said I think I’d miss not having it so for the time being I’ll continue to tow.
I will add there have been several times I wish I had something like a wrangler as a toad. Not really into rough off road but there have been hikes we wanted to go on that we couldn’t get to the trail head due to roads too rough for our car. Another would be when there are trips where Id like to have had kayaks along. Let’s face it, a kayak-strapped on a smart car would fit right along side the flying Nun.
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I hear you Joseph and relate to much of what you say.
Our "last straw moment" with our 2000 MR2 Spyder was in Escalante Grand Staircase National Monument. We were determined to get to a trail head down a many-mile long road that was limited to 4x4s. Our thinking was....."Let's go as far as possible and maybe walk the rest of the way to the trail head". We carefully straddled the highs of road-ruts and drove along the edges laying down tall grasses and weeds. We also drove into and out of two deep dry river washes. Needless to say we were determined to take that hike. At the trail head were around 8 Wranglers, just Wranglers. The looks we got were priceless. That was the day we decided to get a 4x4. It was to be Irene's around-town vehicle as well as our tow vehicle. She loved the look of a Wrangler, but after test driving one, she opted for a tamed Liberty. That was back in 2009. We hope to keep the Liberty a whole lot longer yet.
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I keep changing my mind. I wanted a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk. Now Thinking about a dolly with our Ford Escape fwd. On our last trip we went down a road trail with the Escape. It did well. We did skip the heavy sand route though, no guts or just too smart! Not sure we are cut out for remote trails even with a 4x4.
I will keep pondering it. Don’t really want a dolly but to buy a new vehicle to pull four down just doesn’t seem prudent to me. They do have a $6000 rebate on the Jeep Cherokee!
Ron S
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Ron, been there, took us forever to o get down a road jeeps and trucks went down in 30 mins.
Maybe a lift kit for the smart.....jk
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Sara, I’ve never used a dolly so my first hand knowledge is zilch but I’ve read mixed reviews from people who claim to have used them. Before going that route see if you can talk to some people first hand and get some real life experiences from those that have. Just a thought
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Didn’t know Jeep Wrangler was a problem too. Another reason I am hesitant to buy new.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2019/08/10/jeep-death-wobble-fix/1969368001/
Ron S
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Sara, I’ve read where they have that issue fixed, not just a publicity thing so maybe it’s good to go. New wranglers are way overpriced, imo , due to trend fads. The other issue for me is they are owned by fiat. Fiat isn’t known for reliability, never has been and considering a wrangler easily goes I need the 40k range it best be bullet proof.
I am interested to see the new ford Bronco. I guess it’s built on the ford ranger frame. I have no idea on specifics. I HATE buying new so that’s a problem being they have yet to be released.
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For me personally, It would be hard to buy a brand new expense 4x4 tow vehicle and immediately tow it, having lots of road debris messing up the paint work and all the rest a tow vehicle goes through. It was mentally easy for me to accept our 3 year old purchase with 27,000 miles for less than half the negotiated price of a new one. But that's me with my thinking, and I know I generally think differently than most people. Heck, I don't like slide outs.....that should explain a lot. roflol
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Ron , I agree besides the cost of depreciation as well. I can’t help but think of the 2012 Pc someone just noted going up for sale with 15,000 miles on it. Those are some costly miles and yet a bargain for someone else. I really dislike buying new and I understand others like that new car smell and the money doesn’t matter. It’s all good, and works for everyone.
So when the new bronco comes out, I’ll go look at it. I’ll oooooh and ahhhhhh and get it out of my system.
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The greatest toad ever built was the 1989-97 Suzuki/Geo/Chevy Tracker. Small, high clearance, 4x4, convertible, 4 passenger, conventional drive train, easy to work on, barely 2000 lbs, and reliable. So they turned it into a station wagon and then wondered why people quit buying them.
Meanwhile, 25 billion dollar's worth of motorhomes are cranked out every year, but it's never occurred to the auto industry to create a purpose-built vehicle to tow behind them.
Weird but true!
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BlueBlaze,
Last year I sold my 94 year old mother's cream puff 2002 Chevy Tracker 4x4 with only 22,000 miles on it. I worked hard to get $5,000 cash for it. That vehicle was a real gem.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1761/43048598571_d25c325cbf_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1809/42998684552_c0a993fa35_z.jpg)
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I been following this thread closely. I have almost decided on a 2010 liberty limited 4wd although a sport would have been fine. It's a bit heavier than a sport but only slightly. The liberty will double as farm vehicle as well and daily driver. I have a p/u truck that stays offroad for the dirtier jobs. My immediate concern is rigging for towing, its beyond my pay grade (base plate and breakaway brakes etc). I think I will go with ready brakes elite with surge brakes. If anyone has suggestions I would appreciate your advice. Also have not a clue of labor costs of installation? My apologies if this appears as a hijack of this topic.
Larry
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My immediate concern is rigging for towing, its beyond my pay grade (base plate and breakaway brakes etc). I think I will go with ready brakes elite with surge brakes. If anyone has suggestions I would appreciate your advice. Also have not a clue of labor costs of installation?
Larry
Larry,
I can only be of marginal help (if any) on your question since I use a different system, but maybe some of my info will apply. I posted detailed information on my tow set-up earlier in this topic (second message, I think). I personally recommend it highly based on my experience, but there are several very good tow packages available. Based on what I can see quickly online regarding the NSA Ready Brake products, it looks like their tow bars are priced about the same as other top-line bars from Roadmaster and Blue Ox; they use the same base plates as other bars--so that cost is the same; their surge brake system at $400+ costs less than half the $1000 of some other good permanent installed brake systems. Rear lights should be the same for all (depending on the light arrangement used). There are quite a few "incidentals" required in installing a tow package--and I assume those end up being about the same for any system installed.
10 years ago I would have done my own tow installation without thinking twice about it--like I did everything else of a mechanical/electrical nature. Yeah, to save some money---but primarily to be confident in the quality of the job. Now, on the plus side of 75, and with much more limited flexibility and access to tight places, my fallback is to go to a professional operation to try to be assured of that quality job. Dan's Service Center in Elkhart specializes in all types of hitch work and has developed a great reputation. I dropped my Jeep off, took the new PC over, and two days later left them a check for $4.8K; with parts and components totaling $3400 and labor running $1400. I'm sure they had a profit margin on some of the incidental components, but their invoice price for the big stuff (tow bar, base plates, integrated brake system) was very close to internet prices. They provided high quality work, two-day turn-around, thorough walk-through and test drive, full support for all the component warranties and their labor, and even furnished me a loaner car while they had mine. I'm not sure how that labor cost tracks with other quality shops but I bet it's pretty close for a turnkey job--between base plates, brake system and rear lights, there's quite a bit of work involved that needs to be done right to deliver a system that will be reliable over time.
All the best, Mike
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Larry,
Just sharing here that for our 2006 Jeep Liberty, it was easy installing the two tow bar brackets. The tedious part was cutting out the low indents on the plastic front bumper, making sure to follow them accurately to look nice.
The 2008-2010 Liberty was restyled, not sure how different it is. CLICK HERE (https://fitmaster.roadmasterinc.com/fitmaster-results/?years=2010&make=JEEP&model=LIBERTY) for the Roadmaster base plate and installation guide for it. The Roadmaster base plate kit for it HERE (https://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdfinst/521433-1.pdf) is very similar to ours HERE (https://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdfinst/521423-4.pdf). At a glance they look the same.
Roadmaster offers two different base plate kits, pending the design of your tow bar. Make sure to select the right one to review.
I share this only for comparison. I am not trying to promote the Roadmaster product. Many here love the Blue Ox product. It's worth the effort to compare them and decide which is best for you.
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Old thread I know.
I have been contemplating going with out a toad. So much so I sold my toad (smart car). We have been on two trips now without a toad. One was only for 4 days where others there would have a vehicle for us to catch rides in. The second trips was from California to Fairhope Al for a weeks stay where we rented a car. Driving the MH with out a toad is sooooo nice, cruising at 70, easy in and out of stations etc., we loved it, but then we learn the rest of the story. One, even with family offering rides depending on anyone else for transportation Sucks big time. It simply doesn't work, be when you depart or how long you stay and so on. Renting a car was a mess as well. The car they said they could deliver, suddenly they were too short staffed to make it happen. I get it stuff happens. Then we wanted to return it early which of course they were closed on Sunday and when we returned on Monday we are now fighting the no refunds for returning three days early. Doesn't really matter how that turns out at this point considering what we learned in what works and doesn't for us. Much as driving without a toad is a pleasure being without one at our destination isn't a good trade off, at least for us.
The smart car was so easy to tow but couldn't get us to so many places we wanted to go so no regrets in selling it. We're now looking into purchasing a Jeep Wrangler. It will get us to where we want and still be ok for around town and use in the low desert where we live.
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We always did fine without a toad, until we got one. Now can't imagine going without it unless we know we won't need it. It hauls the bikes and the canoe and associated gear plus firewood, chairs etc.
We love our 2000 Tracker 4 door 4x4 high miles but well maintained looks like new...actually fun and comfy to drive. $4500 Gets us to those trail heads.
RVI brake system with RVI tire pressure monitor on all 10 wheels is great peace of mind. Easy set up and take down and can take it to the next toad if we ever lose "Dash" to old age.
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I am like 2Lucky.
I can't imagine the way we use our PC that we would enjoy it nearly as much if we didn't have a toad. We have a Cherokee Trailhawk we tow and it is perfectly suited for towing and is my wife's full time vehicle. Without a toadie we couldn't do the things we like to do when we boondock for several weeks at a time. We selected the Trailhawk for the clearance, weight, 4 down neutral is easy, and we simply like Jeeps. I have driven a Jeep for almost thirty years (six Jeeps all together) and every time I think I want something else I change my mind and stick with 'em. Yes, they are quirky and can be rough riding but the Trailhawk is the best one we have ever owned. It is a 2014 and has performed perfectly without any exception. Plus, it is fun and economical to operate.
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Yup I get it. I learned a lesson, not that we couldn't do with out but we enjoy our trips so much more with one. I'm currently dealing on a 2005 wrangler TJ unlimited with 34,000 miles in like show room condition. I'm not keen on the JK or the LJ for that matter. Not a rush, but I will have a toad once again.
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I tow a 2017 Cherokee Trailhawk, was looking for something a little smaller and lighter but it tows fine. I use the InvisiBrake system and all my towing gear is by RoadMaster as well. I enjoy the idea of being able to go see and do things when I want, without having to disconnect or try and find a rental car.
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We have owned our PC for 13 years now. One trip out west, we left our tow vehicle home thinking we wouldn't need it which was a big mistake. In our case with our 2350 and our travel style, the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. I feel model 2100 is the exception because it fits in many more automobile parking spots.
As far as a tow vehicle choice is concerned? Our experience with both a tiny Toyota MR2 Spyder and an unmodified Jeep Liberty 4x4, the Liberty is our winner. But there are still times I wished we had that little convertible. The desert region is 4x4 territory hands-down. The farther northwest we go, the less we need 4x4 capability as well as when heading eastbound from here in the Chicago area.
I have one concern towing a Jeep Wrangler, even an unmodified one.
Some years ago another couple with a Phoenix 2350 Sprinter stopped by our house to say hello. The outer glass of their thermal pane rear window was shattered. I asked them what happened. They said this was the second time the window shattered. Towing their Wrangler on the highway, stones from the front tires eject towards their PC. Their Wrangler was the current generation, unmodified but with the aggressive package, maybe a Renegade. The style of the front bumper provides a space for stones to shoot forward. Maybe not a direct line of fire to the window, but maybe ricochets off the front bumper. I imagine the tire thread design is also influential.
To you Wrangler owners, have you experienced stones shooting forward off your front tires?
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Ron. Good to know thank you . We haven’t bought yet but I highly doubt I’ll be buying anything newer than 06. The JK and JL models are wider and different fenders and maybe that comes into play? We’re avoiding them being the 3.8 engine hasn’t held up well and the newer 3.6 all though much better in power has its share of issues as well with class action suits for the engine and frame of the Jeep itself.
Problem we’re having is finding one with lower miles in the longer wheel base.
Options for toads that fit our needs are becoming limited with more and more unable to be towed 4 down.
After Sara pointed to some Jeep issues we did a lot of research before we started looking. It was a true awakening.
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Some like the Buick Essence. No need to start engine at stops and no limit on highway speed. I find it a little small and expensive. The new 2020 Ford Escape ,hybrid only, is towable four down. Probably the perfect vehicle if you like hybrids. I found it acceptable but lacked acceleration. Also first year vehicles are not desired. I also considered a Ford Ranger. A little heavy and not as powerful as thought it should be. Jeep Cherokee on list but just can’t pull trigger on a Jeep.
I am probably too picky. But I will find one. May just go with dolly and our 2914 Escape until one comes along. It took two years to find the PC.....we want to go to Florida next month so something will give.
Ron S
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Sarz. In my case every newer vehicle I'd be interested in is not flat towable or way too heavy for a gasser M/H. Of the few times I think it would be nice to have a Pre Def diesel M/H its when Toads come into play. My buddy has a pre Def 36' pusher; not my thing but he has no need to worry about the toad weight.
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Sarz. In my case every newer vehicle I'd be interested in is not flat towable or way too heavy for a gasser M/H. Of the few times I think it would be nice to have a Pre Def diesel M/H its when Toads come into play. My buddy has a pre Def 36' pusher; not my thing but he has no need to worry about the toad weight.
I am right there with you.
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I guess the cycle hauler has four wheels for 'Four Down' :lol ... but I LOVE having the trike inside for a toad.
The trike can go most anywhere we want, and maybe places we shouldnt. :cool
People love the look as Mrs V has a mile wide grin when riding.
It stays inside the trailer in bad weather.
The trailer can also hold additional 'treasure' as we go, and carry supplies when we go to festy. Also useful when needed at home, just put the trike in the garage while using the trailer.
The trailer serves as a garage for the trike when we are home.
I dont trust my hip on two wheels anymore, three is much safer for me. And you can park in motorcycle only spots.
So far, the tandem trailer has not given any clearance issues, and I can back it up like a champ. Rides very well behind the camper. Weight with the trike inside is about 3500#, but that IS a guess, have not scaled it yet.
So.... if you are trike-friendly, and dont need another car, something to consider. Glee on three!
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What brand do you have? Any pics? Interesting....
Thanks
Ron S
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2006 Honda VTX1800, Motor Trike conversion. 18K miles. Pleasure to drive. I like a 'minimalist' looking trike, there are goldwing conversions that offer almost any option should you want a 'Cadillac on Three Wheels'. There are offerings from Harley Davidson also, I am just a long time Honda fan. 2o2 Dependability is a HUGE plus in my book.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49287470856_c131052d8d_k.jpg)
Best pics I can find here at work of all 3.. I am modifying a tour box to add more storage. Trailer is 8 ft wide , 8.5 ft tall and 17ft overall length. 13 ft box length. I put a 13K AC unit on top and a powered roof vent. Plans call for a fold down queen bed to be installed on the left/drivers side. Trailer tows like a dream, very smooth. I forget it is on there sometimes :beg ... I wont tow with a single axle over 10 foot, too rough a ride.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49187392256_2029a802bc_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49186894553_c5781e8f3e_k.jpg)
Here it is with the trailer and side tent, but we took a cart to this festival. A car would have been worthless, we did not need 'street legal' transport. (This is in Brooksville FL, at Sertoma Youth Ranch) You can see the camera tree by the cart, and the trailer was full of recording gear. Shows the versatility of the trailer. :)(:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944774487_b584905754_k.jpg)
'In The Hole' I had it parked all the way to the front, it usually sits further back. Trike is 105" long, cargo box is ~155"
Still finishing the inside, hence the wavy carpet edge.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49260215921_46de52edf7_k.jpg)
Biggest hurdle is finding a tandem axle trailer that isnt too heavy. Most of the used tandems (8.5x14) I looked at were 7K GWVR minimum, and about 2500# empty weight. This cycle hauler is 1250# empty, and 5000# max GVWR. PERFECT for our 2350. The only drawback is the 60" wide door. That limited my trike choices, as many seem to be in the 61-65 inch wide range. There are cycle / snowmobile trailers that are lighter (~2000# empty) with a 72" door.
Not sure if they are still in business, copyright 2014.....but here is the current version of my trailer. Wider door!
http://chariotmanufacturing.com/?page_id=279
Hard to find used, took me a couple months and mine was found on Facebook marketplace. Got it cheap needing work. Did a bunch, and it is AWESOME now.
Sure, this is NOT a replacement for a car/truck. But it does give us mobility, and serves many other needs. And we already had too many cars... (nod)
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One more note... there is one HUGE benefit we found in the trailer. It is an isolated space to put things in that might be buggy. See the mat on the ground in the campground pic? There is a tarp under that. Similar setup under the side tent of the camper. This is GREAT for keeping dust and dirt out of the camper, but a big liability when we pack up. After 5-10 days parked, there are many ants and other critters that now call it home. I dont want them in the camper storage areas!
Pre-trailer, I had a hitch mounted cargo hauler, and would stack them there to keep the 'new residents' from moving into the camper. PITA, and didnt hold a lot.
Now I can toss them in the trailer, as packing up tends to be a 'get up, get out and get back home ASAP' task. Neatness is NOT graded... if it fits in, it goes in. (exactly) Keeps all the bugs in the trailer, easy to eradicate later. :cool We do a total unpack,clean, test and repack of all the video and sound gear anyway. Adding the tarps and carpets is just part of the routine now.
I realize that might not be a benefit to the full timers, but as an occasional RV user it is something we value.
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Sarz, I think I've got my Toad figured out. I've made a deal on a 2005 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited (2 door, long wheel base) with 45K miles. It's already set up to tow. If it checks out when I get there its a done deal. Being it was only made for 2 years if I don't care for it there will be no problem getting my money back in resale. One owner home state in Az.
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Joseph
Congrats. Nice toad. I was considering that type of vehicle as it could replace my Mustang convertible. It is hard for Linda to climb in though so probably not going to happen. I prefer a real toad versus a car toad one takes a chance with the transmission while pulling it. Have to stop every six hours and start it just is not appealing to me. That can create errors in itself. So your Jeep should make towing easy.
I am stuck between a dolly with existing Escape (harder to find nice new vehicles without AWD would limit future options for dolly), a Cherokee, or a Chevy Sonic ( stop and run engine every 6 hours). CRVs, Buick Envision are too expensive. Buick too small inside. I looked at trikes and Slingshot (now has automatic) but not our style.
Something will come along. Good luck with your Jeep.
Ron S