Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: WillLloyd on May 08, 2019, 08:56:20 pm
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Ours keeps going in and out when traveling. Stays put when parked. Any ideas before i tear into it?
Thanks in advance, WIll
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That happens fairly often. Especially in wet weather. My "fix" is to push the actuator button an also turn it to "clean" it. Also make sure the bolt on the door that pushes on the button (actuator) isn't misadjusted.
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Thanks. I did a search (yes, should have done that first) and read about the switch issues. Seems I've done this before.... Will check tomorrow.
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We had that problem and found that locking it in the"out" position stopped it. It automatically rolls in when you turn on the truck and will go back out next time you open the door. We also stored it with the step out since it seemed to get bored and plaed all by itself and ran down the battery. Phoenix adjusted it a while back (maybe a new switch?) and it behaves now but the locked out trick worked.
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We were pulling in to a restaurant when a gentleman knocked on our window and told us that we had the same issue. After lunch I opened the coach door and saw the switch mounted on the door jam and the adjustment on the door itself. Loosened the lock nut on the door, extended the bolt itself then tightened the nut. Just a turn or two. All seems to be fine now.
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The problem 99% of the time is not adjustment.
It is switch corrosion. About once a month I need to just grasp the switch and spin it around. Feels rough at first and then smooths out.
I took one of these switches apart and it is just a hollow barrel and a little slider that slides inside. Corrosion makes it irattic, keep it clean and it will never open on its own.
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Thanks all. Going to look at it tonight.
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We had the same problem on our 2014. 2100 (no slide) after only a year or so. The problem is corrosion inside the switch, Turning the plunger makes you feel better but has no effect, Adjusting the plunger moves the contact surface to a cleaner area but is only a temporary solution. Eventually the corrosion will move to the 'clean' area of the contacts.
I got a new switch from Kermit and installed it and covered the exposed switch and wires with a healthy dose of spray 'flex-seal'. No problem since then - 4 years plus, Took the old switch apart and cleaned the contacts and carry it as a spare. - although it would be messy to replace it through all of the 'flex-seal.
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I too took the switch apart. I cleaned the contacts and covered everything in dielectric grease. Reassembled and it works good. It's a cheap switch and will only tolerate so many disassemblies. It will require occasional replacement. I agree with above statement, twisting it does nothing, in fact it may do more harm than good by twisting the contacts inside.
They make industrial plunger type switches and I'll bet one would fit. These switches would outlast the RV. If I get board, or this is a constant PITA I will look into it.
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On one of my maintenance trips to Phoenix they installed a simple on/off switch near the steering wheel that is connected somehow to the battery connection for the entry step. With the engine on and the door step in, flick the switch to off and the door step will not deploy (even when opening the house door). Flick the switch back on while the engine is on and the step will deploy as normal. This solved that nasty problem of having the step flip off passing motorists or, worse, deploying while trying to park close to a curb.
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This can be done by bypassing the plunger switch and just using the rocker switch at the door. This is on the option list too.
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Captain Al
Adjusting the plunger moves the contact surface to a cleaner area but is only a temporary solution. Eventually the corrosion will move to the 'clean' area of the contacts.
Not true, When you rotate the barrel the switch does not turn, just the barrel. And the contactor slides and cleans the corrosion on inside of the switch.
On my 2006PC, I put in a new commercial grade sealed push button and it worked great for years with no problem. But on my 2012PC, this was easier, I just keep turning the switch barrel and it cleans it up for about 3 months.
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I also had the same problem. The step was going in and out while traveling. I had some of those small, round felt pads. You peel off paper and stick them on the bottom of chair legs or other furniture to prevent scratching the floor. I stuck one of the pads on the plunger and the problem was fixed. More red neck engineering. I'll have it adjusted during my factory visit.
Cheers :)(:
Barry T
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I stuck one of the pads on the plunger and the problem was fixed. More red neck engineering. I'll have it adjusted during my factory visit.
All you did is move the internal slider to a cleaner area for a better connection. It does not need this or an adjustment.
The problem is internal corrosion on the barrel switch. It cleans up when you rotate the switch barrel until it feels smoother. This is not twisting any wires. The slider is just moving to a less corrosive position and it is removing some corrosion when rotated.
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There must be different types of switches. I had mine completely disassembled, rotating it does nothing. My style needs fully disassembled and cleaned out, or replaced.
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replace the switch with Cole Hersee switch part #M-490-BX requires a larger hole
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So what make and model step does PC use? Seems to be a problem on Lippert "Kiwkee" steps.
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So what make and model step does PC use? Seems to be a problem on Lippert "Kiwkee" steps.
It's a Lippert step. The issue is with the door switch. The normal door switch is sealed and magnetic. PC door frames are steel (the vast majority of other RV doors are aluminum) , so the magnetic switch doesn't work.
While PC has tried to seal the switch from the outside, it's not always effective.
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So what make and model step does PC use? Seems to be a problem on Lippert "Kiwkee" steps.
Kwikee steps are pretty reliable. We have several in our fleet, and they last 10+ years without problem.
The switches that signal them, however... even the 'hall effect' ones seem to go bad over time.
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I replaced mine with the Cole Hersee switch, due to the advice on this forum. It works a lot better, but it was a PITA to replace. There are TWO walls you have to drill through to enlarge the hole. The outer one needs to be larger than the one in the door frame where it's mounted, just to get the switch through to where you need to mount it -- tricky problem. You'll need a large uni-bit and some study time. It would be very easy to accidentally enlarge the mounting hole too much.
If I'd known, I'd have probably just ordered the factory replacement. It lasted 11 years. Good enough.
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I am going through the process of replacing the corroded and inoperable door frame mounted 3/4" push button switch. Trying for a direct replacement, I found the Kwikee Products telephone number listed in their 2007 brochure is no longer valid.
Reading the forum, I learned some of the clever replacements either don't work or require modification to the doorframe. Checking alternative sources, I see the exact switch is available thru Del City. I ordered one and will report on its suitability after it arrives and I get it installed
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You can replace with any sealed pushbutton switch, which is what I did in my 2006 PC. It never failed.
However in my 2012 PC, I do this once a month when I using my unit.
Twist the barrel in both directions until it seems to twist easier. This works,
I took apart the switch in my 2006 and found out that it is just a sliding contactor in a steel barrel and they corrode, so what you are doing when twisting is realyl just cleaning up the corrosion.
Always works for me, so I'm not going to the trouble to replace, Try it.
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Because of the steel doorframe, it cannot be a magnetic switch.
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I’ve replaced switch’s, stood on my head, bit my tongue and the damn thing still would eventually act up and start going in and out and in and out like a broken record. I’d had enough. I found the power line by the driver side kick panel and installed a 20 amp rated toggle switch. Yes I have to throw the switch when we get to our camp ground and switch it off when we get ready to travel to keep it n but it never cycles as I drive down the road.
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As any fool would agree and is the inevitable result, beyond any denial, that stated in the product manual: "serious damage could occur while driving with the stair steps protruding". In addition to tearing off the stair frame, sufficient force could destroy the mounting bracket which includes the bottom of the door frame, floor, outside shell, and everything rearward. Probably, a more expensive risk is the liability for potential damage to other vehicles should the erratic behavior allow the step to be deployed in high speed, congested traffic.
Until reading the recent replies, I had no idea the problem was so common. Illuminating the issue makes it clear: the problem is long-lived and widespread. Learning the factory installed type switch is prone to repetitive problems, I am going to explore the recently included suggestions as an alternative. Although, it is my experience the stair control needs to be energized to remain retracted. For that reason, I don't think installing a switch interrupting power from the cab would work.
While on the issue of the entry step function I have another issue. There is a related toggle switch near the door position that is associated with "overriding" the step operation. According to the manual, the step can be left deployed when parked with the ignition off by using the switch. The deployment feature is a functional option that allows the steps to remain in position until the vehicle ignition is returned to the "ON" position, at .which time they are automatically retracted
While the option clearly wouldn't lock the steps in a stored position while driving, I would appreciate learning what idiosyncrasy is known to cause the current foible. Because I would like to have the option to leave the step deployed when parked. Regardless of the door being opened or closed.
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Although, it is my experience the stair control needs to be energized to remain retracted.
Check that. With the truck (starter) battery disconnected the step does not extend when the door is opened, which is kind of a PITA for entering or exiting during storage. The work- around is to open the door then turn off the manual override switch before disconnecting the battery.
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I’ve had a HD toggle switch installed at the fuse by the kick panel for almost a year. When we get ready to roll and start the engine the steps retract. I simply reach down and hit the toggle switch and they are locked in the retracted position. Now the down side is I must remember to flip it back when we stop or no steps come out and it’s a long drop without those steps. I leave a reminder snap on the door so no one walks out and gets hurt.
This works for us, it drove me nuts having the steps go back and forth.
When parked the door switch works as intended and the steps stay out or retracts as designed thru the switch by the entry.
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I need to experiment with the new suggestions and confirm the door / step operation performs properly and according to the features described in the manual. I appreciate the directions offered by Forum members kind enough to respond. And, with their suggestions, less reluctant to proceed.
I want to investigate the directions offered by members in order to gain confidence in being able to control the steps as advertised in the manual. The alternative of unbolting them and traveling without is otherwise a suitable alternative. Until I consult with my commanding officer, that is.
The runaway step problem developed without warning. And, according to Murphy's Law - at the worst possible time. Rapid cycling as I was driving through city traffic at interstate speeds found me unable to pull over immediately and I was concerned. I imagined another car being impaled unmercifully by the rapidly plunging step.
I am traveling with an ohm/voltmeter and was able to determine the pushbutton switch could be bypassed. Removing the defective switch and taping the two electrical leads keeps step closed I have a replacement switch waiting at my next layover destination. I might fill the button cavity on the new switch with dielectric grease.
I hope the fault doesn't return. Reading the experience of others, I get the impression the problem is often repeated.
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Taildragger
Yes, it is a common occurance on the Phoenix because of the steel doorframe. Because of that, you cannot use the recommended magnet switch. Dielectric grease more than likely won't work because it's not the contacts getting dirty. I bought a marine switch because the in-out while driving only occurred in rain and only sometimes. I have NOT yet installed it, because rotating the button every now and then keeps it from pulling that in-out thing while driving (for ME, your mileage may vary).
As to causing an accident, if you look at it when at a campground, you will see that it doesn't extend far enough. It only extends an inch or two beyond the awning frame. To hit another vehicle, they would hit your awning frame first! Curbs... Yes, when you are parked, tires right next to curb, yea... You'll hit the curb.
One of these days I will get a roundtoit and replace the switch. Because it is annoying.
Joseph's answer is a good fix. The step will NOT extend (cannot extend) when there is no power. A rack and pinon worm drive on the motor keeps it in place.
Don
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Anyone who goes the route of a toggle to cut power please use something to remind yourself that you have cut the power. I’d be sick if someone fell out of their rig. I bought some of those snap kids bracelets at hobby lobby and marked them . I use one on the door, the rest are marked and I snap them on the steering wheel with reminders for the antenna etc. I know you can buy them pre marked at any RV place for about $20. Hobby lobby was half a dozen if I recall for $3.
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Joseph makes a very good point. There is a good reason to keep the automatic step to work as designed. One bad fall and you will have loads of regret.
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Anyone who goes the route of a toggle to cut power please use something to remind yourself that you have cut the power. I’d be sick if someone fell out of their rig. I bought some of those snap kids bracelets at hobby lobby and marked them . I use one on the door, the rest are marked and I snap them on the steering wheel with reminders for the antenna etc. I know you can buy them pre marked at any RV place for about $20. Hobby lobby was half a dozen if I recall for $3.
We do that also, they're super handy and cost next to nothing!
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PMS but what are "kids snap-lock bracelets"?
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PMS but what are "kids snap-lock bracelets"?
https://www.amazon.com/Bracelets-bangcool-Silicone-Bracelet-Families/dp/B081F8JHR5/ref=asc_df_B081F8JHR5/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=417000375755&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13406283508483614614&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033395&hvtargid=pla-874944890145&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=92049666457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=417000375755&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13406283508483614614&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033395&hvtargid=pla-874944890145
Curved metal band covered in fabric or paper or now in silicone. Pop flat or slap on wrist to make it wrap.
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PMS but what are "kids snap-lock bracelets"?
Dougn
Look like a large tongue depress or. Cloth or felt outside with a thin piece of tempered steel (like a measuring tape) inside. You "snap" it over your wrist and bends around your wrist and stays on.
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Yeah but mine are special! They are shiney with sparkles adding a bit of flare. Hmmm maybe that’s why they were on clearance 😳. I looked at the package, I got 10 for 3 bucks on clearance at hobby lobby.
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Thanks, got it. Looked it up on Amazon. Good idea!
But...how do I remember what they are supposed to remind me of? roflol roflol
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The way my brain works, I will forget what the snap bracelet is reminding me to do (I don't know how to read) and fall out of the PC anyway. Irene is worse yet about such "tag" reminders. I could see her yelling followed by me hurrying to see what's wrong, just to quickly have both of us laying on the ground with broken limbs.
Repeating myself... Just clean up or replace the switch and spray-lub it annually for corrosion protection to keep it all working as designed. It's not hard to do. That is an extremely cheap supplement on your health care policy.
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Thanks, got it. Looked it up on Amazon. Good idea!
But...how do I remember what they are supposed to remind me of? roflol roflol
You take a magic marker and write "Antenna" on one, "step switch" on another and so forth. Slap them on the steering wheel and then all you have to remember is if there are slap bracelets on your steering wheel, don't start until you take care of the items. 😊😊😊
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Here's the article Patti posted with pictures on slap bracelets
Steering wheel reminders
https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=2806.msg23022#msg23022
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Gee, thanks Joseph......now I have a sudden urge to find a Bedazzled.
Patti
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Gee, thanks Joseph......now I have a sudden urge to find a Bedazzled.
Patti
Your welcome. I’m a giver!😎. It’s questionable of what but I’m a giver!
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Interesting reading. My steps have their own mind also. I also my steps will not stay out when I use the switch by the door. Very annoying to have them go in and out every time the door opens and closes.
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Ron! The toggle and strap reminders aren’t for people with garage queens! 😎. I’ve replaced my switch twice. I clean it every year and it’s still a pia. The toggle works for us as well as using the snap straps that we marked . The one on the door doesn’t need to be marked. Since we started using the snap wraps I’ve never forgotten the antenna etc. That dang antenna was a trouble spot for me to remember. I’m surprised it never got ripped off I forgot it so often. The steps going on their own is a stress point. Hearing it going in and out over and over drove me nuts.
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I have to add a persistent concern and express that thought in the discussion about the erratic behavior of the step. The steps protrude their full width beyond the flared side of the Cruiser. That is what makes them useful. When mine first started plunging into adjacent traffic lanes, I was in severe big city traffic congestion, traveling at turnpike speeds in gusting winds and semi truck caused turbulence. Easy to imagine the stair cutting into another car as I was struggling to maintain a lane that was further complicated by construction obstructions and decayed pavement..
Unlike suggested by another respondent, I am concerned the unprompted step actions could plunge its steel edge into a vehicle in the adjacent lane. Driving the Cruiser in traffic, I have observed other drivers demonstrating very aggressive behavior. And, for no reason other than what is often told on RV Forums: "driving a motorhome displaying nonresident license plates". Lawsuits are commonplace in today's imperiled society. Ever drive in Mexico? Apply that mentality and you will appreciate my concern.
Only the day before the steps started going berserk, I had a driver accelerate to rush onto my blindside and remain there by adjusting his speed after I signaled an intended lane change. Fortunately, I have good mirrors and I use them. My advice - if you want to grow old and end up with two cents in your pocket don't trust anybody or anything.
Get the switch replaced. I doubt the problem will ever go away on its own. And, I am confident it will only get worse.
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BANGORBOB says
Interesting reading. My steps have their own mind also. I also my steps will not stay out when I use the switch by the door. Very annoying to have them go in and out every time the door opens and closes.
Make sure the little switch to the left of your steering wheel that connects the 3 batteries is off. If this switch is on or your ignition key is on the step will not remain out when the switch is on near the door.
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My first post to this forum I haven't had my PC long but I do have a problem like BANGOBOB in that the steps won't stay out when the step switch is thown.
Mine is a Kwikee with a date code of 6J17. According to the manual and wiring diagram shown on Figure 10 there needs to be 12 volt enegized to the white wire of the control unit in order for this option to work. I suspect a blown fuse some where. Does anyone know if the is an inline fuze hidden or would this circuit be terminated on fuse panel. So far I haven't found the fuse. My failing eye sight doesn't help. Does any one out there know which fuze location I should check. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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I have no idea if there is more than one fuse and there are much smarter minds than mine here that may know. There is one 20 amp in line behind the kick panel drivers side that I know of. That aside if that fuse is blown the steps are stopped in what ever position they are in when it blows. I have a toggle switch on mine for that purpose but to lock it in not out. That being said if I throw the toggle with the steps out that’s where they stay. So it nay be a work around for your issue but it’s not a direct fix. I wonder in your situation if it’s possible that the switch at the entry for this purpose is bad or if a wire has come disconnected.
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Joseph
I checked the step swith with OHM meter and it is good.
I checked the function by using alternate 12 volt supply to white wire at the swith and the unit works as it should. So problem is the 12 volt supply to the step switch. I just don't know where the fault is located I will try again in the morning with fresh eyes to look for blown fuse. Thanks for the info on the 20 amp fuse but per manual I should find a 5 amp fuse for this circuit
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So who’s feeling ambitious?
These are 12v photoelectric switches. Try attaching one to the door frame out of harms way. Wire it to the manual override switch or run the wires from a hole below. Then make a blocking fin that sticks on the door to break the light beam in the slot when the door is closed. No more flakey pogo switch (nod)
https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/2b340154ec8bb244b65966e062de4afc.pdf
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Well it’s been a year since I installed the toggle. My mind says it was 20 amp , I could be wrong (my memory confuses different projects at times) and I’ll check the next time I go to the motorhome. It is at the kick panel for certain.
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Joseph
I checked the step swith with OHM meter and it is good.
I checked the function by using alternate 12 volt supply to white wire at the swith and the unit works as it should. So problem is the 12 volt supply to the step switch. I just don't know where the fault is located I will try again in the morning with fresh eyes to look for blown fuse. Thanks for the info on the 20 amp fuse but per manual I should find a 5 amp fuse for this circuit
Patrick, Did you get your problem fixed? If so, how. I have no power to the white wire at the switch by the door.
Thanks, Bob
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We’re on the road now and having that toggle switch to cut power to the step has been a great investment. Having that step going in and out adds stress to the drive.
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Joseph, Thanks for the reply. I understand the toggle switch at the beginning of the electric run. I've read through this a couple times. Patrick came up with the same problem I have-no power to the white wire going to the switch by the door. My plunger switch works fine. I was hoping he found either the reason why no power OR a work around at the entrance door switch.
r/Bob
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Finally fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I started tracing the red wire back to the fuse box. All the fuses looked good on the red wires. Got mad and pull the side panel off and started looking at inline fuses. The only fuse that was blown was a BLUE wire NOT RED. Changed the fuse and now me step stays out when door is closed. A couple pics attached.
Hope this may help someone.
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Good news. And if not now eventually someone else will run into this issue and find your fix!
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Not quite sure why mfgs start with 1 color wire and change maybe 2-3 times by the end of the run. Anyway, I hope current and future people will find this site useful. I sure have. Again, thanks to all.
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It would be nice if Phoenix USA would make the wiring and plumbing diagrams available to owners, either online or by request. It’s not some secret sauce IP.
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That would be way to easy, plus it take away the fun that some of us have trying to figure out what they did at the factory. But I do agree. Winnebago puts stuff on line.