Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: romstead on April 19, 2019, 11:03:08 pm
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Newbie here, The Grey tank auto electric valve switch keeps blinking after I close the valve, I have opened and closed it several times and the blinking light remains on and blinking. I think the valve is close but I am not sure. any ideas what to do?
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It may be stuck partially open.
These valves get sticky with things you run through them. Thetford sells valve lubricants.
To really see, you need to remove the actuator and manually open-close the valve.
But it could be debris that got stuck. Fill using flush system and try again.
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Ours was doing the same thing when we got it, but the actuator wasn't actually working, so I disconnected the wire and now manually operate the valve when needed as it is easy to reach on a 2551.
Dougn
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Ok thanks, I will try the flush and drain and get some lubricant to see if that works., Another newbie question. How long can you boondock with sized of the onboard water and dump tanks? I understand a lot depends on how much water you use and use the bathroom but I am trying to get feel for the timelines most folks have experienced. At this point, I am thinking we will only get 3-4 days of boondocking. Your thoughts?
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Our experience has been about 3 days before needing to dump the gray tank. At only 23 gallons, that’s the limiting factor. We have not had an issue with fresh water or black tank capacity. However we are fairly new to all this so learning from the veterans would really help us all.
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We can go 5 without any problem in a 2350 - with the 2552 you can probably do better - take Navy showers!!!
Jack
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We can go 5 without any problem in a 2350 - with the 2552 you can probably do better - take Navy showers!!!
Jack
Wow, 5 days. We have our work cut out for us!
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Our experience has been about 3 days before needing to dump the gray tank. At only 23 gallons, that’s the limiting factor. We have not had an issue with fresh water or black tank capacity.
That is my experience with our 2552 also, 3-4 days
We take NO showers inside and try to use as little water doing dishes as we can. I carry a 50' - 3/4" hose and use macerator to dump the grey tank if we can reach a good place to dump. We also dump the grey into the black tank when we can't dump.
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Ok, thanks so much for the great info. I'm thinking 3 or 4 days for us newbies for boondocking..
On the blinking light front. The grey tank Blinking light went out after I did multiple flushes and dumps and then I just tapped the manual grey tank valve with my hand (cheer) and it stopped blinking tymote
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Hi Rob,
Just like with our 2350, your grey water tank is the smaller of the two. Some boondocking conditions allow the grey water to be dumped on-site in the adjacent brush. Check before doing so. If you can do that, along with adding clean water into your fresh water tank, you can easily double that 3-days to 6. If we can't camp-site dump our grey water along with adding fresh water, it's typically 3 days for us, ideal for an extended weekend get-away. That considers one shower each for my wife and I.
The 23 gallon grey water tank fills up quickly for obvious reasons. When ours is full, I open the grey valve and flood the pipes, then when the gurgling sound is gone, I open the black valve and flood the black tank with grey water. Doing so helps get our 3 days. Flooding the black tank with grey soapy water also helps to clean it out better when it's time to dump. That process came recommended by Phoenix during our walk-through when picking up our new PC at the factory back in 2007.
Remember, the mixing of grey water into the black tank "MUST" be done in the order I described. You do NOT want to open the black tank valve first to keep the nastiest stuff inside that tank. Bad black in the grey tank is a bad thing when the grey tank backs up into the shower pan. Get the idea?
Ron Dittmer
PS: I am glad you got your grey tank valve working properly again.
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Ok, thanks so much for the great info. I'm thinking 3 or 4 days for us newbies for boondocking..
On the blinking light front. The grey tank Blinking light went out after I did multiple flushes and dumps and then I just tapped the manual grey tank valve with my hand (cheer) and it stopped blinking tymote
I can appreciate your situation when dealing with a new system. When I picked up my 3100, I stayed in Elkhart RV park for several days for a shake down. I was trying to figure out how to dump the the tanks should the electric gates fail. I looked and saw a valve, so I pulled it out (I was hooked up to the sewer). I didnt realize it was operated by the electrical system. I pushed it back in slowly, but the light continued to blink, just like yours. I took it back to the factory and they just pushed it in and the light went out. Glad you got your problem resolved.
I have had RV's for over 30 years, but when something is new and different it seems we all are on "pins and needles" until we become familiar with the different systems.
I am lucky to get 3 days on the gray tank, but that is with only me taking a Navy shower. My wife is retired Navy Nurse Corps, but does not like Navy showers. Danged officers! roflol
Depending on the days activity, I am good with baby wipes, occasionally. We have not yet boondocked.
Cheers :)(:
Barry T
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Good information on how to flood the black tank with gray water.
We try to extend the capacity of the gray tank by taking navy showers as well. Also we have a plastic basin that fits in the kitchen sink and we wash dishes in it. The dishwater is then poured down the toilet so it goes in the back tank. Recently I watched a video and their tip was when turning on the shower to get the hot water flowing, catch that water in a pot so it doesn’t just go down the drain. That water can then be heated for washing dishes. A good way to manage the gray tank and conserve water at the same time.
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Remember, the mixing of grey water into the black tank "MUST" be done in the order I described. You do NOT want to open the black tank valve first to keep the nastiest stuff inside that tank. Bad black in the grey tank is a bad thing when the grey tank backs up into the shower pan. Get the idea?
I have to remove the valves to find out why the black valve does not shut completely. Multiple flushes did not cure it. >( Believe you me - You do NOT want black water in the grey tank. Many odors. Not sure what happened, but the valve didnt close this last trip. No flashing light to indicate a problem!
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If the valve is really sticky, the round plastic gear inside the actuator motor assembly will break in half. Then the actuator will not move the valve at all but may indicate that it is open or closed.
Remove the actuator, try valve manually to see if it is very hard to move.
Try the actuator to see if it moves at all while stilled wired in but not connected/
If not:
You will have to disconnect the 4 wires going to the actuator
Then, pry open the actuator so you can see the little gear that moves the lever back & forth. See if it broken.
I'm not sure if you can buy just this gear, you can buy the whole actuator.
You may be able to SuperGlue the gear back together but don't reinstall until you get this valve free and working again.
Let us know what you find and did to fix.
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Ok more Newbie questions on the Manual Pull Dump Vales, Do you have to disconnect the actuator motor wires first before you pull the handle to manual dump? If so how are the wires connected Is it difficult to remove the wires? Or can you just pull on the Drump handles without pulling the actuator motors wires without damaging the internal components of the actuator gears also a great tip on how to move the grey water in the black tank.. Thanks
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If the electrical part of the actuator is operating properly, there is no need to manually open or close the valves. If you override the electric actuator manually, you will probably damage the plastic gearing of the actuator requiring repair or replacement. The removal of the wires was in the event the actuator was inoperable, removing the actuator and wiring would be a cure so that you could dump manually.
Larry
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The valve is a standard manual valve. PC just attaches an electric actuator onto the handle. So to operate the valve manually you need to disconnect the actuator. It isn't difficult and I would suggest that you take a look and make sure you have the tools on board to do so if you ever need to. But its not something that you should have to worry about.
I got something stuck in my black valve once and had to disconnect the actuator and pipe in order to manually clear it. Not a fun job, especially lying on your back under the rig. Fortunately I had everything I needed in my tool kit.
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I got something stuck in my black valve once and had to disconnect the actuator and pipe in order to manually clear it. Not a fun job, especially lying on your back under the rig. Fortunately I had everything I needed in my tool kit.
Hi John,
What was the item that jammed your valve? I hear on RV forums, regardless of the RV manufacture, construction material is sometimes left inside the tank like a screw or plastic round cut-out. It then gets stuck at and jams the valve.
Did you first try to fill the tank to the tippy-top and then open the flood gates to let it all out in a rush through the 3" gravity drain?
I am curious to know what caused the jam.
Ron Dittmer
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Our black valve is sticking. We've been doing a two man dump - I push the button, John lies under the rig and "helps" by pulling the manual handle. We finally got to a place he could work on it and disconnected the actuator. Actuator worked fine so it is a sticky valve. He didn't think he could leave the actuator hanging there while driving so he put it back together.
We hit a town in a few days and plan to pick up Thetford valve lubricant and give that a try before we have to disassemble the whole system (which John plans to pay a repair shop to do.)
I read some other forums and blogs and the sticking is apparently common and it helps to lubricate them periodically... Somehow. Some people drilled holes and put grease ports in... Yeah, not happening.
Any thoughts?
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I read some other forums and blogs and the sticking is apparently common and it helps to lubricate them periodically... Somehow. Some people drilled holes and put grease ports in... Yeah, not happening.
Any thoughts?
I would be right at home adding a grease fitting...any chance of a link to that post?
Mine appears to close, light stays off, but it leaks. >( I am GUESSING maybe the rubber gasket is shifted/torn/gone. I did try the flood method to flush it, filled the black tank until I saw water in the commode. No improvement. For now I have an 'add on' valve at the end of the line to contain things.
I have to bring it in to work to dump the tanks to work on it. Grandson apparently used the bathroom a few times going home. He is still amazed at the ability to go to the bathroom while underway. roflol The only other thing Grandpa has (in a car) that fascinated him this much are the windows in my lil' truck. Manual, crank up windows. :cool He is 8, and had never seen such a thing. :-D
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Here's one link http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=48156.0 but you'll find lots of discussion and videos if you google dump valves sticking. We are monitoring data at the moment use so I didn't watch any of the videos.
On grandkids: Chloe was 7 when we bought the Phoenix. She immediately started referring to it as "OUR" camper house. After our first trip she declared she loved it because she can eat when she wants, sleep when she wants, and use the bathroom when she wants. Quite a step up from being the bored kid in the back seat with no control over food and bathroom breaks.
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Our black valve is sticking.
Talked to an RV repair shop yesterday. He said sticking valves is common if using liquid tank chemicals because many contain formaldehyde and it destroys the seals. We use the blue Walex pouches which he said are the best and he never heard of valve problems with them.
He also said the problem is usually swelling of the two "O" rings that flank the opening in the valve blade. He said once they swell you have to replace the valve. Being really bad at home repairs, we're paying the man to put a new valve in on Monday. John is tired of crawling under the rig to dump.
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What was the item that jammed your valve? I hear on RV forums, regardless of the RV manufacture, construction material is sometimes left inside the tank like a screw or plastic round cut-out. It then gets stuck at and jams the valve.
Ron, I never found what it was. I suspect a bit of plastic because the valve would close down to about 1/4" from sealing but no further. So it might have been a plastic shaving from construction. I removed the actuator, then the valve. Disassembled the valve and cleaned all parts then put everything back together and it worked. I wasn't too interested in sorting through the mess to figure out what was stuck. :lol
I might have been more thorough if I was home but we were at an RV park and needed to pack and move so time was an issue.
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What was the item that jammed your valve? I hear on RV forums, regardless of the RV manufacture, construction material is sometimes left inside the tank like a screw or plastic round cut-out. It then gets stuck at and jams the valve.
Ron, I never found what it was. I suspect a bit of plastic because the valve would close down to about 1/4" from sealing but no further. So it might have been a plastic shaving from construction. I removed the actuator, then the valve. Disassembled the valve and cleaned all parts then put everything back together and it worked. I wasn't too interested in sorting through the mess to figure out what was stuck. :lol
I might have been more thorough if I was home but we were at an RV park and needed to pack and move so time was an issue.
Thanks jatrax for the details.
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Still stuck. Took rig in Monday as scheduled but repair shop was backed up. Had about a dozen tickets on the counter and said parts just came in for rigs that had been waiting and might get to us by noon... Should have waited but we rolled figuring we'd catch the next shop on the way. Unfortunately we can't get anyone else touch it for another two weeks.
John, how hard is it to disassemble AND how messy? I'm willing to buy the part and crawl under there and attempt to replace the valve if it isn't too evil or difficult. We're in a very tight RV park tonight with full hook ups but may wind up on BLM land the next three days. If they let us do it here, clean up would be easier. On BLM land nobody would care but cleanup would be more difficult. John is reluctant to attempt it but he said it is getting extremely difficult to open and is afraid we'll break it and/or the auto-drain.
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Holly,
It wasn't something I would do for fun, like waxing the rig or changing the oil but technically it wasn't bad. Not all that messy either. My issue was with the black tank, so I dumped that then the gray tank, then flushed and dumped the black tank twice. Only then did I start to take it apart.
Since you know in advance just have the parts (new valve) on hand first. I had to repair the valve on mine because no opportunity to get parts but in your case I would just swap out the valve then see if you can repair the old one as a spare.
Take off the actuator and accompanying wires and set that aside. Then disconnect and remove the valve. If I remember correctly that part went smoothly. I had more trouble taking the valve apart and getting it back together with the O-rings in the right place which you will not have to mess with if you are just replacing the valve.
John
Good luck and email or call if you need help.
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Awh... I get in this line too. I gave up when it would not shut off.... went on my trip and when I went to dump sewer it had stopped and it did turn on again and after that worked. I am no genius so what happened I will not be guessing. I am lucky I don't need a porta potty…. and a catalog . Feel lucky when it works ok.
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John flat out does not want to tackle it and looks pained when I talk about crawling under there to fix it. He managed to get a service time in St. George next week. This left us hanging in southern Utah so we're rolling back to Kanab today and volunteering with the animals at Best Friends until then. Nothing like slobber and snuggles from dogs, cats, bunnies and birds to take your mind off your troubles.
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Just dropped the drainage system on my 2350. 8 bolts and cut a bunch of wires its on the ground.
The rubber seal on the black tank valve was distorted, allowing leakage into the 'common' pipe.
The rubber seal on the gray valve is in unknown condition. I dont think I will ever see it again. roflol (It was missing - air gap around the blade. :beg )
OK, that explains the poopy smell inside sometimes. (exactly) And the need for the extra valve on the end of the system to contain things. I could see the actuators opening and closing fully, they were not sealing internally. Electric actuators still work fine. 2o2 Bench tested with a battery.
Here is a CURRENT parts/wiring diagram for the unit, the wire colors do not match my 2006 model. The mounting bracket is a bit different on mine also.
https://www.barkermfg.com/uploads/5/4/9/4/54943161/auto-drain.pdf
On mine, blue and orange are motor , yellow goes to the light.
And Bristol 3" slide valves. The flanges for the valves are attached to the rest of the drain system, and only the center is removable. This means I have to match it up with the correct replacement center section - others may bolt on, but not fit/seal right at all. OR rebuild the entire system from scratch.
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Sewer/LaSalle-Bristol/34466N4BB.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKCAjwwtTmBRBqEiwA-b6c_2KBm6TGxQOzVzrLxUI-q1ksYpeFAjTTJT6k_Sr5Bl_CjbLelioCwxoC9XQQAvD_BwE
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You do NOT have disconnect any wires to open the gate valve manually. You just take the black plastic handle off the actuator shaft, push the actuator shaft out of the way and reinstall the black handle on the gate valve shaft. You will have to crawl under the camper to get to one of the valves. as to replacing the gears inside the actuator; I called the factory direct and then sent me the round gear and the straight rack gear free. I froze mine in cold weather and broke both grey and black valve actuators. Wasn't a hard job, just lying on your back having dirt fall in your face. https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/Smileys/emotes/pyho.gif
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Had service today at Indy RV in St. George, Utah to replace the black dump valve. Not good.
John had also scheduled generator service and new batteries. Total bill was over $700.00...
However, when we picked her up they explained they checked and the valve and seals were fine but they adjusted the horseshoe shaped thing on the auto drain so that it closed properly then ran it in and out a few times and it worked fine. We paid, drove back to the campsite, hooked up and (after I insisted), checked it. Guess what? It didn't work. We called then drove back to the repair shop.
They then asked if we had dumped. John had dumped and flushed three times that morning using the macerator and said so (more on that later). They then took the auto drain apart and told us the valve still worked fine but the gears inside the auto drain were stripped and they couldn't get parts so they would cut the wires and cap them. As we waited I thought about that and asked the service manager how they could check the seals in the morning without knowing if we dumped AND how they could run it in and out four or five times if the gears were stripped. I said I wanted a new valve (which is why we are there in the first place). The manager agreed and called the techs and told them we knew we'd been lied to and to put on a new valve.
It appears that when they took it apart nasty stuff came out (stuck somewhere in the system or added after we dropped the rig - John probably should have flushed through the three inch hose also then we'd know for sure). They finally told us the new valve was on, we paid for the part (I told them I wasn't paying again for the labor), drove back to camp... And noticed a drip. I had John hook up the flush hose and water was dumping out of that valve... In the closed position. I suspect the rubber baskets aren't even in there. The top of the valve they installed is also chewed up - no clue what that's about.
We called, told them it was leaking and they said no techs available. I said we'd be there at 9:00 when they opened but they hung up on me. I may be hunting a lawyer tomorrow. For tonight, we have a bucket in the bathroom. There are no facilities at the park we are at so we'll be bucketing then dumping the bucket down the sewer pipe.
So, who wants to hire these guys to fix your RV? Or maybe buy a new rig from them? I'm sure they'll be happy to service it for you.
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What a horror story! Everyone's worst nightmare. Hope you can get it all back to working condition and back on the road.
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If camping in their driveway won’t make them fix their botched repair try tightening the 4 flange bolts with the valve closed. Not overly tight, kitty-corner pattern, 1/2 turn, repeat until just past the point where the bolts begin to feel snug. Overtightening will damage the seals or cause binding. Check out YouTube for all things DIY.
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Success! They took the rig right away and I explained that due to the problems, I was going to sit right there and watch. They sent in what we figure is their trouble shooter. He took it apart, installed a new valve, tested it with a full tank of water and we were good to go. No auto drain since the first guy cut the wires and capped them so John has to crawl under to dump but at least we won't be spewing nasty stuff.
I'll take the auto drain apart to see if the gears are really stripped of if that was just the first guy's attempt to avoid removing the valve. The second tech also said to hit the rod on the valves with lubricant every so often. We've done that but maybe not enough with the dusty dry states we've been in.
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My Gray tank actuator light is still blinking when I close the gray tank auto valve. To stop the blinking I have to push the Gray tank pull handle in. I believe it may be sticking and something is preventing the valve from closing until I push on it. I drained the gray tank and opened the manual gray tank valve looking down the pip to watched the auto valve open and close a few times. The Auto valve does not open all the way. I can see about 1/4th of the auto valve in view. I believe if the valve was working correctly I should not be able to see any of the auto valves in the open position when I look through the bypass manual port is that a correct assumption? I did not have any dry lubricant with me so I did not get a chance to lube it. What type of Lube should I get and how often should I lube that valve. I'm not sure the spray lube will reach down that many bypass tube to reach the valve. and do I need to lube the push rod as well? I'm a newbie so thanks for the help in advance.
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Keep a spray can of silicone oil handy in your RV.
It has many uses. lubricating mechanical parts, auto dump valve shafts, steps etc.
Do not use regular lubricating oils like such as WD40 as they will attack rubber seals and attract dirt. 2o2
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This is almost too complicated. Had the same problem. Gave up came on home it was time and eventually it seemed to stop. I asked service man I had for another problem... and he said just leave it alone... and some one else said something may be stuck... so who knows. Never had this on the macerator in the Class A....
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On our trip the black tank valve stopped closing all the way. Stayed open just enough to leak by.
There is no issue with it getting in the gray tank. The traps keep any order from entering the coach. I ordered two new valves and dreaded the idea of changing out the black tank valve.
Once I got home I flushed the tank a couple times and then stared at the valve with dread for a lonnnng time. I used an oil pan to catch anything once I started to pull the valve. As it turns out I wasted time staring at it. It’s not a bad job, took all of 20 minutes. Roughly half a gallon of water drained when I pulled the old valve loose.
So for those considering, it’s no big deal, 20 minutes and a $15 valve. In the future I’d have no issue changing it on on the road.
I just changed out the one as the gray valve works fine. I’ll carry the additional new as a spare.