Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ron Dittmer on March 04, 2019, 08:34:13 am
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CLICK HERE (https://www.phoenixusarv.com/brochure) to see Phoenix's 2019 Brochure.
I like how they categorized the various floor plans. For example, grouping all twin bed rear bath units together, all rear slide-out double/queen beds together. But the size of the floor plans are too tiny for serious pondering. Instead of having pages of people sitting around and quotes in the sky (with no PC pictured) those pages should be utilized to provide blow-up floorplan pages.....or add more pages.
Also, I absolutely hate cartoon pictures instead of real pictures of the interiors and exterior color selections. They are always very misleading of the real product. Whenever I see cartoons from any RV manufacture, my interest in the material is immediately extinguished. If I went to an RV show and came home with a bunch of motor home brochures to ponder, I would quickly migrate to other brand brochures with pictures of real rigs, naturally loosing interest in a PC. Phoenix should have instead taken lightly wide-angled pictures of PC interiors to capture features properly.
The purpose of a company brochure is to have your product sitting on potential customer coffee and kitchen tables at home to show off your product as best as possible, having it pop-out at them. I don't know what Phoenix was thinking. They must have listened to a young man or woman fresh out of college with new marketing ideas. I feel Phoenix missed the mark in a very VERY big way. The beauty of their product was reduced to ugly fake misrepresentation.
One last comment. There are no specs nor any pictures of a Sprinter or Transit. Has Phoenix given up on both of them?
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Ron, I'm not following on the cartoon pictures thing. Those look like real pics to me just digitized. The only fake pics are the exterior color scheme showing the four exterior paint schemes. Those could definitely be better. I suspect the actual brochure is bigger with clean photo shots. Maybe it got weird when they reduced the size for the download. I agree on the people pics. Whole pages with nothing PC except a little quote. Reminds me of those ED drug commercials with two people in bathtubs gazing out at nature... Those left me with a confused disconnect and mental "huh?"
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2 Frazzled,
Maybe I call it the wrong name, but "digitized" or "cartooned", it's not a real representation anymore.
You had me laughing at your comment about some of those E.D. commercials. I totally agree with you.
Ron Dittmer
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I totally disagree with you Ron. The brochure should show info on PC units and create a visual image of PC. There are many pictures, data and image building pages.
I like it.
Ron
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And Lynn will agree, this is one of the more important lines in the brochure...
Phoenix USA Inc. reserves the right to make changes at any time to prices, colors, materials, equipment, specifications and models, and to discontinue models without notice or obligation. All specification are approximate and dimensions are nominal.
and the floor went to 1/2 inch plywood... mine is 3/4. Hmmmm. Have to measure wall thickness also. Thought mine was 2", with 2x2 aluminum framing. They state 1 1/2" now. Might be on mine, have to check.
It would appear that A/C prep is standard... but I see NO mention of a standard roof AC unit..Roof AC with heat strip is a 'Popular Option' (15K or 13.5K? Who knows..)
Generator not included either... ""Prep for generator ""
TV is an option, but ""32 Samsung LED TV (Front) (Ford)"" HEY! There may be a slight reference to other chassis plans beyond Ford?
""Rubber pucks (similar to motor mounts) placed between the truck frame and the floor, to give a smoother ride and reduced road noise"" Yeah...aka 'Body Mounts' ....whoa... are there manufacturers that put the floor directly on frame with no bushings/mounts? I would be very surprised to learn that... actually now, I guess i wouldnt. Some real cheezy stuff out there..
Ron (D) I do agree with you on the brochure in a few respects... but we are 'gear heads'. A minority in the buying world. We wanna see cutaways of the coach showing the structure and assembly line pictures. Graphs for performance! Little surprised at no CCC in the charts... but I suppose with the bigger ones that number might be embarrassing... but wow! if you take the GVWR and subtract it from the GCWR you can tow a 7500 pound trailer?? Right? (NO you cant, folks. Gear head humor. :)(: )
It is a very well put together brochure for people who really dont know sh*t about construction of motorhomes, but want all the buzzwords and options to talk about. And pretty pics that they can put themselves 'in the scene' for a warm fuzzy feeling. And wont notice that AC and generator are popular options... (I BET THEY ARE!!!) and not standard. From a marketing standpoint, it is very well put together. Target audience is over 50, couple or single person. Not a child (or grandchild) pictured.. Note how the 'people' pics are all summer green, but the view through the coach windows is a more colorful fall foliage. Slightly surprised at no golden lab anywhere, but that is more of a 'family scene with kids' shot... and putting in a specefic breed of small dog will only disappoint owners of any other breed. :lol
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Where are Earl and Kyle when you need them! :'( All those wonderful (and funny) videos and pics of all the units and attributes.
My question is where did the TRX go? Obviously not in the production mix for 2019. If PC has made the decision not to move forward on what appears to be the fastest growing segment of the class C&B market so be it. I really think they are missing out on the opportunity. There again they may have their hands full integrating into dealer sales program.
The Ford Transit is now the fastest growing and most popular van in America. Granted it has its limitations as to size and capacity's, however its filling the needs of the folks that think bigger is not better. If the Transit RV forums from the 3-4 top makers are any indication, they are growing members at the rate of over 150 a month.
Hope PC reconsiders.
https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/01/best-selling-van-2018-vanlife/
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Just one quick comment on your "Transit chassis PC" question.
When at Elkhart in mid-February getting my new unit, I spent time with Pete Dotlich since he was the salesman that had handled my sale. As mentioned earlier by Hutch42 in another message string, Pete has transitioned to manager of the Phoenix TRX project, which is their Transit initiative. They had produced a prototype unit which was unveiled at the Elkhart RV Show last fall, and Phoenix sees the TRX as a major new vehicle category for them in the future. It was mentioned that part of the rationale for the transition to the new sales arrangement with Camper's Inn was to free up internal resources to focus on new initiatives and expansions. Pete was in meetings with an outside interior designer while I was there, and my understanding is that the original interior of the prototype is pretty much being totally replaced with a entire new approach.
That's not much detail, but I can say with confidence that Phoenix is currently putting a lot of time and focus into creating the new TRX, and they see it as not only a major initiative, but a necessary one. They must have models available in the lineup that will appeal to the growing category of RV buyers that are moving away from the "traditional Class C's", to smaller more modern designs.
All the best, Mike
MIKEH---Glad to see PC's commitment to the TRX. I had not read your thread before posting my rant above.
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Ron D., You are the keeper of all the past years brochures. Can you verify if the AC and generator were always optional? I'm pretty sure they were on mine. I know some people that don't want a genny as they never camp without power or they take a stand alone generator for the few times they need it. They don't want the weight or cost. Same for the AC. People moving up from tent camping consider it a spiffy hard sided tent. While I've seen air conditioners stuck into tent openings, it definitely isn't the norm. By making them optional Phoenix lets the customer choose where to put their money and it allows people to buy at the lower price and add those upgrades when they can afford them.
Second topic- Transit - I saw something that looked like the transit was being marketed to soccer moms and tailgaters. Don't recall if it was at Phoenix when I toured their prototype or elsewhere. With the size and weight restrictions it definitely targets the Class B or family van buyers though I don't know how many people you could transport before you hit the weight limits.
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Ron D., You are the keeper of all the past years brochures. Can you verify if the AC and generator were always optional? I'm pretty sure they were on mine. I know some people that don't want a genny as they never camp without power or they take a stand alone generator for the few times they need it. They don't want the weight or cost. Same for the AC. People moving up from tent camping consider it a spiffy hard sided tent. While I've seen air conditioners stuck into tent openings, it definitely isn't the norm. By making them optional Phoenix lets the customer choose where to put their money and it allows people to buy at the lower price and add those upgrades when they can afford them.
I sit corrected! I do confess, I have never bought a new RV. Worked on many while at a truck/rv mechanic shop. My lack of exposure, but I do not recall *ever* seeing one without A/C. I know most if not all had generators also, because it seemed that was one of my #1 tasks was to clean carbs and get neglected generators running. :lol
Suppose people that didnt have generators didnt bring them to the shop, ergo I never saw one without. :-D
I am 'moving up' from tent camping. We had a 8x10 that attached to the side of the bus, and the bus was just the 'master bedroom'. I had a small 5K BTU window unit with spacers that fit in the drivers window of the bus, and ran off a little 900w generator. Get cold enough to have condensation covering the bus! (nod) Living in florida, not having AC in our ' spiffy hard sided tent ' would rapidly have it be a 'spiffy oven' ! So... lack of AC in an RV is not even a realistic option here. Suppose there ARE 49 other states to consider...
Once again, thanks. Looked like a cheezy way to keep the 'retail price' low, but I now see there are people that dont buy them. tymote
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Second topic- Transit - I saw something that looked like the transit was being marketed to soccer moms and tailgaters. Don't recall if it was at Phoenix when I toured their prototype or elsewhere. With the size and weight restrictions it definitely targets the Class B or family van buyers though I don't know how many people you could transport before you hit the weight limits.
Think it was Barry H in the TRX video last fall that mentioned soccer moms. The increase in GVWR for 2020 on the transit (11,000 LBS) will help RV manf more then the straight passenger vans. That said some will use the increase to make the Transit RV's longer or wider which would eat into the increase.
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Ron D., You are the keeper of all the past years brochures. Can you verify if the AC and generator were always optional? I'm pretty sure they were on mine. I know some people that don't want a genny as they never camp without power or they take a stand alone generator for the few times they need it. They don't want the weight or cost. Same for the AC. People moving up from tent camping consider it a spiffy hard sided tent. While I've seen air conditioners stuck into tent openings, it definitely isn't the norm. By making them optional Phoenix lets the customer choose where to put their money and it allows people to buy at the lower price and add those upgrades when they can afford them.
Back in the day of 2007 and 2008 before "factory direct only", the a/c unit and generator was included in a convenience package" but you could also line-item order your rig. Like today, not every option was documented. Unfortunately for us, there was no PC community back then to ask questions. Things like a matching mattress cover, captain 3rd seat instead of barrel chair, matching driver side awnings, larger main awning, things like that were a mystery. We got the serious things we wanted included, but stumbled through some upgrades in subsequent years. You are always smarter the second time around, especially today with this forum with the wealth of information we share here.
The year after we bought our PC, I put together this 2008 document to share with people interested in a PC back then. During the great recession, I tried to do my part to help Phoenix through such a hard time in the RV industry. The convenience package is listed along with other documented options. But as I say, there was much more available that I was not aware of at the time we ordered our PC, nor even at the time I put this together in 2008.
The price of a tiny main & bedroom TV back then was crazy. I installed my own for a fraction of the price. But even I paid a lot for my TVs. Today it's all different for the better.....how technology changes.
2008 Phoenix Cruiser MSRP
Model 2100 $68,026 21 Rear Kitchen (E350 Chassis)
Model 2350 $71,106 23 Rear Corner Double Bed (E350 Chassis)
Model 2400 $72,226 24 Rear Kitchen (E350 Chassis)
Model 2551 $76,706 25 Twin Beds (E450 Chassis)
Model 2700 $81,186 27 Rear Double Bed In-Slide (E450 Chassis)
Model 2900 $81,606 29 Rear Double Bed In-Slide (E450 Chassis)
Model 2950 $80,206 29 Twin Beds (E450 Chassis)
Options
$10,906 - 6.0 Liter Diesel Engine (generator then works on LP)
$6995 - Premium Convenience Package, includes Onan Generator, Roof A/C with Heat Strip, Class-3 Trailer Hitch, Microwave/Convection Oven Combination, Water Heater Gas & 110V, Telephone Hook-up, Outside Shower/Faucet, TV Antenna and Signal Booster, Roof Vent by Fantastic, Wood Accented Dash & Drink Tray, Electric Step, Heated Remote Mirrors
$6020 - Full Body Paint ($1372 - Lower Only, Body Paint)
$4130 - Slide-Out with Electric Sofa (add $868 leather for sofa)
$3766 - HWH brand Hydraulic Leveling Jacks
$1372 - Partial Body Paint
$1526 - Front TV, 20" LCD
$1008 - Backup Monitor
$1008 - insulated glass
$980 - Dark Cherry Wood Cabinetry
$966 - Bedroom TV, 16" LCD
$833 - 12ft. Box Awning
$686 - Leather for Front Captain Chairs
$546 - Leather for Dinette
$504 - Front Bumper Cover with Fog Lights
$504 - 6-Way Power Seat (each side)
$504 - Surround Sound with DVD Player
$304 - Inside Rear-view Mirror with Compass & Outside Temp
$252 - Leather for Barrel Chair
$175 - Swivel Mechanism for Front Passenger Seat
$126 - Matching Bedspread
Available Interior Colors
- Latte (beige) - Carolina (blue) - Sagemint (green) - Morning Mist (gray)
53217 Marina Dr. Elkhart, IN 46514 574-266-2020 www.phoenixcruiser.com
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I put this 2007 2350-specific MSRP list together in 2007 to help us decide on options.
The actual price we paid was a formula given from East Acres RV where we ordered through. It was as follows.
MSRP divided by 1.3, then subtract an additional $800 East Acres discount, but then add a $700 charge to pick it up at the factory. That determined our actual price.
2007 Phoenix Cruiser Model 2350 MSRP
$68,586 - 23ft. Rear Double Bed, Std. Dinette, with Light Maple Cabinetry
Ford E-350 with 6.8L-V10 (362hp/457tq) & 5-speed automatic, 4-wheel ABS, 55 gal fuel tank
Length: 23'-6" Width: 93" Height with A/C: 9'-10"
Fresh Water: 41gal, Waste Water: 35gal, Gray Water: 23gal, LP Gas: 42 lbs.
RV Standard Features Are Numerous - See Brochure
Available Options
$7840 - 6.0 Liter Diesel Engine (generator then works on LP)
$6995 - Premium Convenience Package, includes the following
4KW Onan Generator
Roof A/C with Heat Strip
Class-3 Trailer Hitch
Microwave/Convection Oven Combination
Water Heater, running off Gas & 110V
Telephone Hook-up
Outside Shower/Faucet
TV Antenna and Signal Booster
Roof Vent by Fantastic, for Main Area
Wood Accented Dash & Drink Tray
Electric Step
Heated Remote Mirrors
$1372 - Partial Body Paint
$6020 - Full Body Paint
$4130 - Slide-Out with Electric Sofa (add $868 leather for sofa)
$3766 - HWH brand Hydraulic Leveling Jacks
$1526 - Front TV, 20" LCD
$966 - Bedroom TV, 16" LCD
$1008 - Backup Monitor
$1008 - insulated glass
$980 - Dark Cherry Wood Cabinetry
$924 - 14ft. Box Awning
$686 - Leather for Front Captain Chairs
$546 - Leather for Dinette
$504 - Front Bumper Cover with Fog Lights
$504 - 6-Way Power Seat (each side)
$504 - Surround Sound with DVD Player
$304 - Inside Rear-view Mirror with Compass & Outside Temp
$252 - Leather for Barrel Chair
$175 - Swivel Mechanism for Front Passenger Seat
$126 - Matching Bedspread
Available Interior Colors: Latte (beige), Carolina (blue), Sagemint (green), Morning Mist (gray)
Phoenix USA Factory
53217 Marina Dr. Elkhart, IN 46514
574-266-2020
www.phoenixusarv.com
I hope I covered everyone's curiosity with this history lesson on Phoenix options and pricing just prior and into the great recession of 2008/2009.
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Wow! Very cool. Thanks Ron!
Now my curiosity is piqued... on 'AC and Genset as Optional' ...
Mrs V was shocked to learn they are not standard.
Researched Pleasure Way, here is their brochure - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FAReCsPfd50QLoOTGpOut8CCF83D2M7W/view
I think this is what Ron D was expecting. What an informative brochure! I am correct in assuming Pleasure Way is a direct competitor to PC?
Check that link and look at standard features... not only a genset and roof AC, but automatic starting of the genset if climate control and/or battery charge state requires it... What a list. :beg Daaaaaaaamn!
also Coachmen Crossfit - http://www.coachmenrv.com/class-b-motorhomes/crossfit standards include...
Gas generator 2.8KW
Two burner LP cooktop
Low profile 13,500 A/C
100 Watt solar panel with dual charging capability
Hm. Lunch is over, so no more exploration.. anyone else have a line on any maker that has roof AC and Genset NOT standard?
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Volkemon,
Looking at Pleasure Way, you can cover a lot more with a 65 page brochure. ;)
Phoenix should include a paragraph at the bottom of their "options" page stating that custom-orders are available with complete flexibility in option choices.
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Okay. I have been spoiled and I admit it. We bought a 2007 Roadtrek 210P in 2006 for our thirtieth wedding anniversary present to each other. Here is the link to the brochure for Roadtrek back then.
https://www.roadtrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Roadtrek_Brochure-2007_chassis_model_year.pdf
The brochure was longer page wise than the pdf linked above because of formatting (17 page pdf and 32 page printed brochure). Please take a look at pdf pages 13,14 and 15 for specs. NOW, that is what I call full disclosure. The measurements in many instances are down to millimeters. I never found any discrepancies whatsoever in these extensive specs listed. I guess that is just overkill for a lot of folks, but boy it sure is helpful when shopping around and you have specific needs.
Paul
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Nice Roadtrek brochure even back then. It costs money to put something like that together, and you can't let just anyone do it.
One thing certain, "Pictures Sell", but what does Phoenix supply in their 2019 brochure? The only "real" picture of a Phoenix Cruiser is off in the distance and just a side view, not a perspective view. Then there is a woman sitting on a picnic table looking through binoculars, and a couple sitting on a blanket having a picnic and dreaming. It's only a 16 page brochure yet they discarded 3 of them. Then they use the exact same color scheme in the wild and also in the balloon feature page. Add in those fake digi-pics of interior shots & exterior colors and it's a total failure. There, I got myself upset again. Sorry about that. I have to remind myself I take no ownership in the company itself, only their product.
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Volkemon,
Looking at Pleasure Way, you can cover a lot more with a 65 page brochure. ;)
Certainly! Especially when *every* page has product and/or info in it. No full page mood pictures.
And in the day of digital... no too many excuses to limit your media. Not like a 64 page PDF costs more to download and store than a 20 page PDF. Sure, you cant let ""anybody"" do marketing, and layout takes time and money... but that is a 'constant' in the market that was true in 1988. If anything, the lack of need for paper brochure, and the HUGE exposure from the internet.. its easier now to advertise. (I can still remember laying out boards for a small 16-24 page newspaper by hand. 1991. Now the entire print run can be sent as a PDF. Changes done instantly, and MUCH cheaper)
No hate for PC here, not being a fanboy for anyone else. heartshower LOVE my PC. heartshower About the only other RV I have lusted after since owning my PC was ANOTHER PC. 2o2
I am still trying to find another example of AC and generator being 'add on' and not standard. Even with my VERY limited experience in RV ownership, and total lack of experience buying a new one, it seems ridiculous. But using 'common sense' these days doesnt work all that well.... But I am willing to believe, just in the learning phase.
Consider this quote from the current PC brochure -
"We go the extra mile by providing standard equipment not found on competitive units." Um...like... I am wanting to verify that. Maybe their claim is there are no truly competitive units to them, so in a group of one they are the best? That would be factually correct... I guess...
Wordplay and verbal tricks in advertising are as old as advertising. Would you consider all the horizontal surface on the top of your Rv to be "roof"? Like on your house? So...its a three piece roof with two seams. (Thats common sense leading you astray, however.) But if you only call one piece 'roof', and do not consider the horizontal part of the front cap and rear cap "roof" ....then you now have a one piece roof!
If you call a dogs tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
Before Mrs V and I pay more for a new RV than our first house..... I am gonna read all the small print. And research. I want to be proud of what we have, and be able to back it up with facts. So far, PC is the best I have seen. Just want to keep it that way until we sign the check.
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Before Mrs V and I pay more for a new RV than our first house
Ha, ha.
We paid $59,000 for our first house in 1978.
We paid $67,200 for our PC in 2007, 29 years later.
We got you beat 12 years ago.
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Before Mrs V and I pay more for a new RV than our first house
Ha, ha.
We paid $59,000 for our first house in 1978.
We paid $67,200 for our PC in 2007, 29 years later.
We got you beat 12 years ago.
:)(:
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Ron, call and get one of the new brochures. Those are probably real pics that come out funky on the download. After you see the actual brochure, give them your feedback. If the brochure is good but the online file is not, they should be able to fix it.
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There is no way pictures comes out funky in download. These are almost fake picture as far as I'm concerned. I've seen resorts and new home developments use these kinds of pictures that show everything like they would like it to be, but not really reality. They show pristine beaches with no people instead of real pictures. You can take a picture, then photoshop it to eliminate reality. See Real vs NotReal below.
I liked Stewart and Earl's real pictures over the past 15 years but I don't care for these.
Just my opinion and has nothing to do with PC's quality and ability to custom make to your needs.
A/C and Generators have always been optional but 99% of PC owners seem to choose the optional package that included them.
I have both, but seldom use either but for resale it's the only way to go.
(https://keelhauler.org/RV/Real.jpg)
Real
(https://keelhauler.org/RV/NotReal.jpg)
Not Real
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Second photo is still real. Just a lot of Photoshop enhancements added to what appears to be a HDR photo. Nice job pasting in the outdoor shots in the windows!
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I know one thing they say was finally corrected in the 2019 brochure and that is the holding tank sizes for several models including mine , a 3100. My 2018 brochure and the 2017 brochure and maybe one or two before it state that the gray tank size is 50 gal. and the black is 35 gal.. Wrong. The black is actually 35 gal. and the gray is 23 gal. Now as far as I am concerned that is absolutely ridiculous when you have over 40 gal. capacity of fresh water. When I was at the plant recently there comment was "well it really isn't a big deal as you can dump grey water on the ground most anywhere". I raised holy H about this and told them those poorly designed models should never have been built if that was the best they could do. I know about there disclaimer statement but I wonder if a jury would agree with them or me. Someone is responsible for this misleading information in the brochure whether by design or mistake. Now, my question for those with models affected, is has anyone had their gray tank switched out to a larger size?
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Even on a 3100 the gray is only 23 gallons? It is 23 in my 2350 but I thought the larger models had larger tanks. I always thought PC should have reversed the tank sizes to 23 black and 35 gray. Its really difficult to stretch the gray tank out for several days at only 23 gallons. Im not about to just dump my gray tank on the ground!
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Regarding the 23 and 35 gallon waste water tanks.....
I believe those tanks fit into specific positions on the E350 and E450 chassis frame extensions. I examined my 2007 2350 and observed a specific hanger system of good quality that clip up nicely to the rear frame extensions. From my recollection, the 23 gallon tank could be a teenie-tiny bit bigger at the sacrifice to the compartment that contains the Sanicon system. But the narrow 93" PC body is by far the biggest factor.
Now with regard to which tank is gray and which is black....the location of the toilet in the floor plan designates which tank becomes the black tank. Our 2007 2350 has the larger 35 gallon tank doing black duty. I wish it was the smaller 23 gallon to avoid the fuss of flooding the black tank with gray water all the time.
Here is a picture of our 2350 underside. The silver-insulated gray tank is on the left, the silver insulated black tank is in the middle. You can see the gray tank is right up against the Sanicon compartment. If the PC body was wider, the tank could be made wider by that much. With consideration to everything, I don't see Phoenix doing any better.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1890/44096697452_2ebe8c8d8a_z.jpg)
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Well hey!
Here I am thinking the tank on the drivers side was the black tank, due to the location under the commode. Thanks Ron!
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Great picture of the holding tanks. My 2018 3100, looks exactly the same. With that in mind was there ever a real 50 gallon tank on the 3100 or just an advertising gimmick? I ask Dave why they couldn"t at least. add a 35 gallon tank (same size as their black tank) forward of the black tank. That would keep the wastewater centered on the coach and add much needed capacity. He said they would look at it. Engineering should be able to figure out the changes to the drain lines. I plan to follow up with them every few weeks to see if something is really going to happen. Hopefully something positive will happen!
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With that in mind was there ever a real 50 gallon tank on the 3100 or just an advertising gimmick?
I have been an active PC owner since 2007 and I have never seen anything installed but the 23 and 35 gallon waste tanks since 2007. The floor plan determines which is used for gray and black waste water.
I ask Dave why they couldn"t at least. add a 35 gallon tank (same size as their black tank) forward of the black tank. That would keep the wastewater centered on the coach and add much needed capacity. He said they would look at it. Engineering should be able to figure out the changes to the drain lines. I plan to follow up with them every few weeks to see if something is really going to happen. Hopefully something positive will happen!
I would be surprised if Phoenix could sneak in a second waste tank between the current 35 gallon tank and the fuel tank. They are very close to each other (with consideration to frame material) on my rig as shown.
The pictures were taken to show my back-up stinky slinky storage tube mounted, article with pictures HERE (https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3332.0)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1881/44144948651_e9763f4331_z.jpg)
I can't say for certain, but I think Phoenix treats the frame extension with waste tanks as a modular design to some degree, that applies to many different models regardless of length.
When you add up 35 + 23, that equals 57 gallons of waste water. The fresh water system holds just over 40 gallons. Having bigger waste tanks wouldn't get utilized unless you add more fresh water without dumping. If you fill up your waste tanks and then fill up your fresh water tank without dumping, you are surely carrying a lot of extra weight in the worst possible location.
Preparing our PC for winter storage, for odor control, I fill both waste and the fresh water tank to capacity with fresh water and some bleach, soak them for a while, then drain, refill with fresh water, soak a while, then drain again, done to store everything empty but clean & fresh. When all tanks are filled to capacity, the rear of our PC has a very serious sag to it. I would not want to drive our PC that way. So with that consideration, I think the 23/35 waste tank configuration is best to be left alone.
A practical method of utilizing the 57 gallons of combined waste water capacity, is flooding gray water into the black waste tank as needed. With our 23 gallon gray water tank, I do that once or twice between dumps, usually during shower-time. One of my to-do projects is adding redundant waste tank valve electric control switches inside our PC so I can flood our black tank with gray water from inside when needed. Otherwise I am running outside half dressed after my shower and Irene in the shower saying the water won't drain out the shower pan. Since we boondock all the time, I do that all the time.
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Regarding comments about dumping gray water on the ground...I'm not saying "yea" or "nay", but, quite frankly, I don't see the problem in areas such as Corps of Engineers parks and other parks were no sewer is available. IMHO, the thoughts of gray water are a little antiquated. Soaps of today are not what they were several years ago. Basically, the only thing that goes into gray water tank is water from showers and washing dishes. Most all these soaps are environmentally friendly.
I have talked with some who would never dream of dumping gray water on the ground, YET, to avoid filling the tank, they wash their dishes in a pan and, guess what....dump the pan outside.
I am not trying to stir a pot...I dont like licking the spoon!
Cheers :)(:
Barry T
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We wash dishes in a pan and dump the dishwater down the toilet.