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Next Tuesday, March 5, it will have been exactly five and a half years since we took possession of our 2013 PC 2350. It was only ten months old when we bought it from a couple less than five miles away from our home. They decided they wanted a DP.
In those years and after driving it about 5000-6000 miles each year of our ownership, we have had remarkably few problems. I have corrected a few minor things like the factory using screws that were too long and potentially could penetrate the dump hose, adjusting the bracket holding up the macerator to relieve pressure on the bayonet connection, replacing most cabinet hinges (probably a bad shipment of them to the factory) and a few more minor things that occur with any house going down the road at 70 mph..
We made some simple alterations like converting the hanging clothes closet to shelves, installing 200 watts of solar, making a much more useable table, reconfiguring several cabinets with shelves, etc. But, all those changes were to accommodate our personal uses.
The Ford 350 chassis has provided flawless service. I have replaced the coach and chassis batteries because, after six years from when they were installed, they were not up to par.
I would estimate that I have spent less than four hundred bucks on the maintenance/correction stuff including the batteries and less than five hundred on the solar, shelves, LED light conversions, etc. Round that up to a thousand which works out to less than two hundred a year of ownership on average. I do all the mods and coach maintenance myself and have a trusted local garage do the Ford stuff.
Let's face it: we have been immensely pleased with our PC and it has provided a lot of wonderful months in great places for reasonable cost. We do store it in an indoor, enclosed facility and that is also an expense but that expense would be incurred whether it said PC or Winnebago or Whatever on the side of the rig.
Now, to all that has to be added $3,500 for a really great towing system to pull along our Jeep Cherokee Trailblazer.
I consider us really lucky. Our PC was made while the original owners of the company were operating and it was built a few years after the 2008 financial debacle that caused such a wave of harm in the RV and other industries. I hope that the problems of the more recent purchasers of PCs that post on this forum are solved by the company with the same integrity and meticulous attention to service the former owners of the company exhibited. That has kept the resale price of our PCs up and I just hope that continues. Time will tell.
Paul
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Paul, that is a great story to share with us.
You know our story is very similar though we bought ours new plus we invested in suspension improvements so we have more invested up front. The bottom line is that there are two very happy campers (4 considering spouses), PC owners on this forum.
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Make it 3 happy campers!!!! Although we’ve only had our 2552 for a year, we put the unit and towed, through “boot camp” on a 5 month,11500 mile trip from Tennessee to Alaska and back. Flawless performance and comfort. :)
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Make that 4 now. We added a satellite dish, a cellphone booster, replaced the coach batteries with Lifeline AGM batteries. A few minor repairs and adjustments at the factory (free) and 43,000 miles later Patti and I still love our PC. It was/is our best present to ourselves ever!
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I'm probably a good example of a PC buyer: I never owned an RV before. I looked at many companies and models and was horrified at the quality of every RV I could afford. (I didn't bother looking at the Class As.) In many ways, the RV industry is like the home building industry: if you pay more money, you get more space, not better quality. I wanted a very high quality, compact motorhome that was configured to my needs and wants (no slide, a dinette, twin beds, lots of storage inside, etc.). I went to the factory and was shown units in work that met every need. I now own a 2018 2552 with no slide, with a dinette, two LONG twin beds, more storage than the regular 2552, and electrical outlets (110 and 12 volt) everywhere I asked for. I drove it almost 12,000 miles the first year, with no repairs except a broken screen door lock, and a replacement was sent to me in Alaska as I was driving.
Those who grumble about a lack of perfection may need to take a step back and look at real life. Was your new home perfect? Your new car? Really? My only question is why PC chose to associate with a dealer like Camper Inn, whose poor quality (read the reviews!) and location (the southeast only) would seem a poor choice. But do I know what went into that decision? No. Would I like PC to survive to support my RV ten years down the road? Yes. Does picking nits on this forum support that goal? I don't think so.
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We'll weigh in as happy owners that will hit six years in early May. Almost half that time has been full time in the rig with lots of time spent out in her the rest of that time. Phoenix has taken good care of us with our original customizations, trials and tribulations with components that they use but don't manufacture (Atwood furnace defect, Onan generator defect, etc.) and recent service performed a few months ago under the new-ish ownership.
We were clueless when we started looking for an RV and feel extremely lucky we chose Phoenix. We think we hit the sweet spot with the 2552. It's perfect for us and the way we live. We do very little service and repairs ourselves and rely on Phoenix and the Ford dealer they use.
We plan to keep on wandering as long as we can and hope Phoenix is there with the same good quality service for us while we do.
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I'm probably a good example of a PC buyer: I never owned an RV before. I looked at many companies and models and was horrified at the quality of every RV I could afford. (I didn't bother looking at the Class As.) In many ways, the RV industry is like the home building industry: if you pay more money, you get more space, not better quality. I wanted a very high quality, compact motorhome that was configured to my needs and wants (no slide, a dinette, twin beds, lots of storage inside, etc.). I went to the factory and was shown units in work that met every need. I now own a 2018 2552 with no slide, with a dinette, two LONG twin beds, more storage than the regular 2552, and electrical outlets (110 and 12 volt) everywhere I asked for. I drove it almost 12,000 miles the first year, with no repairs except a broken screen door lock, and a replacement was sent to me in Alaska as I was driving.
Those who grumble about a lack of perfection may need to take a step back and look at real life. Was your new home perfect? Your new car? Really? My only question is why PC chose to associate with a dealer like Camper Inn, whose poor quality (read the reviews!) and location (the southeast only) would seem a poor choice. But do I know what went into that decision? No. Would I like PC to survive to support my RV ten years down the road? Yes. Does picking nits on this forum support that goal? I don't think so.
I must be the grumbler you're talking about. This is my 4th motorhome, I've put on just about 600,000 miles. My PC is 11 months old, odometer reads 31,262. I'm glad so many have had few problems. Here's my list.
Bathroom window leaked bad
Electric dump valves malfunctioned
Macerator stuck on
Valance over window fell down
Ordered plug in on side of closet, didn't get it
Panel pulled away from bathroom wall
Rubber seal on slide came unattached
Paint peeling on door frame, bad rust
Was told I didn't need E450, now rear sags and scrapes
Panel on entry door is delaminated
Water leak under bathroom sink, comes and goes
Arm rest came off passenger chair
TV arm doesn't click shut correctly
No radio reception on coach radio
Kitchen sink scratched up, looks like tools were put in it
Black tank 26% smaller than listed
Fresh water tank 42% smaller than listed
120 plug in pulled out of wall, it was broke into 3 pcs
4 way water valve turns very hard, doesn't seem right
cable on electric sofa broke, twice
screen door latch broke
Drivers side carpet is always wet, can't find where the water is coming from
NON PC PROBLEMS
Door fell off fridge, it hit the floor
Microwave replaced
Furnace replaced
Stove top soots up
Does this sound like I'm picking nits? I wish I could be more positive. I would expect this from Thor or Forest River. I hope PC survives but when I see PC's listed on Campers Inn for more than double what Gulfstream, Thor, and Forest River goes for, I wonder.
Lynn P.S. I wrote the check, I'm stuck with the problems, I think maybe I can grumble.
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I feel for you Lynn. Fortunately for just about everyone else, your story does not match up with theirs. I am not trying to make you feel better or worse, I am just sayin.......
Too bad you can't drive your PC back to the factory one last time with what continues to trouble you, and have Phoenix call you when it's all made right. I know you've have made the effort working with them, and them not responding properly. >:(
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PC has treated me well, they stand behind there product and have never tried to avoid me. I guess I've had more problems than most. It happens. It's not good to have a lot of negativity on the forum so I'll stop posting problems. PC owners are very loyal to the brand and that's good.
Lynn
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Lynn, I agree that list is unacceptable. I hope it's growing pains on the company's part and they get over it quick. I'm really sorry that you had to suffer through it and hope everything has been corrected (at no cost to you) and that you are able to finally enjoy your rig.
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I have a 2910T I bought with 35000 miles, three years ago. I have been on three trips and it has 42000 miles on it. I had looked at RVs for 30 years, always wanted one, but never pulled the trigger. I ended up with the PC because of the quality.
There have been several problems that have made me scratch my head. The leather or whatever it is, is flaking off and needs to be recovered. The PC factory says nothing can be done and it just needs to be replaced and they no longer use that material, leading me to think they know they made a bad choice. Seems like this may need to be some kind of recall, but I'm on my own to pay for the fix. I'm not angry about, I just thought it might be a little different.
I also had the refrig door fall off. A plastic hinge broke. The fix was to replace the whole door, I think it was around $200. They had a metal insert available for an additional cost that will prevent the problem in the future. Again, it seems like a design mistake, because they are now doing it different, but in the meantime I was paying.
Same story, but with cabinet latches "yeah, those didn't holdup, we are using different ones now, how many do you want to buy".
My Chevy truck had bad wiper motors, and they failed after 4 years and 100,000 miles. They replaced for free, because it was a poor design or quality.
I guess I thought I would just get a little bit more.
Rick
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Hi Rick,
Your vinyl covered furniture flaking off is the byproduct of the great recession of 2008/2009. The manufacture of the vinyl upholstery material stopped producing it in the USA, instead outsourced it from China. Then he sold the inferior product to the RV furniture manufacture, Paul's Seating who made his furniture with it. Then Phoenix bought furniture from Paul's Seating. Then people like us bought our PC's. Then you bought your PC from a previous owner.
So who is at fault and who looses? The person who looses is the person who currently owns the inferior product. Unfortunately the only practical option is to purchase either cloth or real leather skins from Paul's Seating, learn how to install them, and be done. You could replace the seats or outsource re-skinning your current seats, but the cost will be quite high. I know it's not want you want to hear, but that is the reality of it.
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Rvrunner, If that was my vehicle with all the issues you’ve had it would be gone. I’ve had lemon cars and I did just that, ate the loss, got rid of the stress and moved on. I feel for you, that kind of stress leaves a bitter taste.
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PC has treated me well, they stand behind there product and have never tried to avoid me. I guess I've had more problems than most. It happens. It's not good to have a lot of negativity on the forum so I'll stop posting problems. PC owners are very loyal to the brand and that's good.
Lynn
I dont see posting your problems as 'negativity'. Its the truth, the problems are not 'nit picking' at all. I would think that future PC owners are following your problems with interest, as they should. YOU BOUGHT NEW.
Now I did buy my camper with 40K miles like Rick. Mine is a 2006, I think his is a bit newer due to the seat issues. Do I expect perfection in a used unit? Heck no! I feel there is NO fault at PC for the issues with seat material and latches. Those are complete assemblies they buy from another supplier, and PC really does not have the facilities to do a multi-year testing of all components. Nor the responsibility. I would not expect PC to give me the 'time of day' if I came bit**ing about things breaking... I didnt buy from them! ( We were SO hoping to... couple more years ....but it looks as if factory ordering and assembly line supervision by customer is probably a thing of the past, or soon to be. Too bad, as thats the ONLY way I would have someone else build my coach)
@ Lynn again... Did you ever confront them about the tanks not being the correct size? I am still curious to hear their response. I guessed before they would hide behind the 'Specs may change at any time during production without notice blah blah...' but if you have a bona-fide issue with being able to use the camper 'as you intended' based on those false claims... you may have a case for replacement.
The rest of the problems are impressive, I am sorry to say. :'(
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Ron, thanks for the info on the flaking seats. I will contact Paul's and get the seats reskinned. Has to be better and cheaper then having them done custom.
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Ron, thanks for the info on the flaking seats. I will contact Paul's and get the seats reskinned. Has to be better and cheaper then having them done custom.
You are welcome.
I don't know if Paul's even sells vinyl seat skins any longer. At any price, I would not consider them. Ask about his cloth and top grain (also called full grain) leather. Bonded leather is actually worse than vinyl because unlike vinyl of recent years, it is guaranteed to flake. At least with vinyl, it is a hit-or-miss risk of getting a poor product.
Our vinyl interior is 12 years old and still perfect. Some years later we bought a new 3rd captain seat to replace the original barrel chair by the entry door, and then some years after that we replaced our cloth dinette cushions with mem-foam vinyl.....all from Paul's Seating during questionable years. But I recalled in both instances, they were worried about old stock material on-hand. The captain seat is Morning Mist Gray and the dinette cushions are Sagemint Green. Paul's actually had to get the old stock green material from Phoenix. They had enough old green on-hand to make the dinette cushions. We seem to have dodged that bullet.
Go with real leather or cloth and you will do well. Understandably so, Paul's Seating is "touchy" about complaints of the vinyl failure. To get what you need, I would not mention it. Just call and order his new stuff and be done. If you "vent", you may break communication as I read has happened to others.
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Ron, thanks for the info on the flaking seats. I will contact Paul's and get the seats reskinned. Has to be better and cheaper then having them done custom.
Not sure about your area, but here in FLA we have a BUNCH of retirees and good weather. Makes for a good labor pool. Mrs V is in the process of finding a local guy to re-do our front seats, there are a few (read:many) upholstery people around. In the process of getting prices now. There is a 'Pauls' sticker on our seat, but they have yet to return a message. Supplying new seats to the industry is a LOT less trying than dealing with small orders from fussy owners, so i can understand.
Will report back with seat info, we really need them to be gray. Or black. NOT beige. They are in great shape, too bad the color is now wrong.
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I worked with Paul's Seating in the past when ordering our 3rd captain seat. It was difficult for me to order direct from them. I recall Phoenix getting involved being my spokesperson after a tough start. Then once we got moving, Phoenix wasn't needed any longer. Our dinette cushions was handled completely through Phoenix so that was painless for me.
Maybe working with Paul's starts with a phone call from Phoenix. Then you can get things moving.
But Volkemon's strategy sounds really good...work with a local resource.
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I have owned sailboats for over 30 years, and just like my PC in each case one has to delineate between products provided by vendors and the parts actually built by the end builder. In effect these things are a combination of many parts being brought together. Not a justification for poor quality control, just an observation.
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After finding that local upholstery shops wanted $750 per seat for recovering and then trying in vain to get Paul's to return a call/email for a few weeks I turned to superior-seats.com, just down the road from PC factory. I ordered new leather/vinyl seats from them that have the same seat pan as Paul's. I picked them up and had them installed at PC while I was having other work done - they created QUITE a stir with many workers stopping by to see them as they are so much sleeker than what Paul's has available. I could only upload the attached pdf but you can see the seats I now have installed. My wife is DELIGHTED to not be "sitting in a hole" any longer - these are firm and supportive seats!
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I have owned sailboats for over 30 years, and just like my PC in each case one has to delineate between products provided by vendors and the parts actually built by the end builder. In effect these things are a combination of many parts being brought together. Not a justification for poor quality control, just an observation.
THIS! ↑↑↑
But Volkemon's strategy sounds really good...work with a local resource.
Sounded great....
Yeah.... quotes are coming in around 750-800 PER SEAT to reupholster. :beg :'( The 'pillow on pillow' design basically makes it so they have to rip it apart, copy the pieces, and reassemble. So...MORE work than building it new. :help OK....that was an education. (nod)
Not to mention that when we are done...the seats still look like 1980's styling.. (WH) For that money...
https://shop4seats.com/rv-furniture/rv-captain-chairs/all-captain-chairs/de-leon-rv-captain-chair.html (https://shop4seats.com/rv-furniture/rv-captain-chairs/all-captain-chairs/de-leon-rv-captain-chair.html)
(https://shop4seats.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/389x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/e/deleonpic1large_2.jpg)
So.... now we are looking at ~$1700 for two new captains chairs. Ultimate Leather (vinyl) Charcoal grey, mine (drivers) with lumbar and extra seat spring support (add ~$150 to the base price) and Mrs V's (passenger) will have the power (no manual available.. >( ) footrest. Mrs V is about 5 foot tall, (152cm for the rest of the world..) and her constant problem is dangling legs off the seat. In the bus we had a small stool for her feet. Pricey upgrade, at $350, but hey... she is MORE than worth it. heartshower
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Quick note - check with PC techs about the shop4seats replacement. I learned they were not compatible with the factory seat platforms and would need new pedestals, etc installed. On the other hand the Superior Seating seats I purchased were plug and play.
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Quick note - check with PC techs about the shop4seats replacement. I learned they were not compatible with the factory seat platforms and would need new pedestals, etc installed. On the other hand the Superior Seating seats I purchased were plug and play.
The only 'non compatible' was in the lack pedestal seat belt mounting in my existing ones per shop4seats. They said I would need new pedestals because of that. Otherwise they will fit that 11x14 pattern that is on mine.
I am pretty sure I can weld up some seat belt mounts on my pedestals. roflol I have a few roll cages and rail buggies in my past.. I would see how it could be a 'stopper' for the average owner, however.
Checking out the Superior Seats site now. tymote Which did you get?
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Well, went to their site.... no pricing? There is a 'pricing' button, but appears to do nothing. Even tried another computer thinking it might be this antique holding things up... Tried calling, but went to a voicemail.
I am guessing you went with one of the ISS seats to avoid the pedestal problem....
http://superior-seats.com/Executive-ISS (http://superior-seats.com/Executive-ISS)
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We chose the "Excalibur" seats and had them made in two-tone leather with contrasting stitching. The seating surfaces are all leather and backs have vinyl although I can't tell them apart. We were going to get the upgraded springs but Ryan Kindt - (574) 389-9011 x211 or ryan@superior-seats.com suggested that would be too stiff even though I'm pushing 1/8 ton.....
I've tried to attach another photo, hopefully this comes through
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Here's the seats after install at PC factory. Mounted on factory bases and passenger seat swivels as before. Driver's seat has electric base from previous seats so no extra parts needed to install.
FYI - they cost $675/each as built. Since I picked them up I avoided their shipping costs.
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dogyard,
There is only one thing that I can say about that.
2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2 2o2
I only hope your vinyl back-sides don't flake. I would have paid more for 100% leather.
Volkemon,
I strongly advise against any kind of vinyl seating. You don't know when or where the vinyl originated from. Go with real leather (not bonded leather) or go with cloth. Vinyl is too risky. Phoenix has avoided it since the problem was discovered. You should too.
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They do look fine! Are the seatbelts attached to the bases? I dont see the 'Integrated Seatbelt System' (ISS) on the seats...
Ron, thanks. I do respect the warning, but cloth is NOT an option. Does not fit our lifestyle. Yes, there have been problems in the past with vinyl. Buy cheapo get cheapo.
Personally, I have yet to have ANY problem with it. Done a little work with it. It is a fairly well proven product on the market, and used many places. I have bought the cheap stuff from JoAnns fabrics, and had no problems with it for years in the florida sun as a headliner and trim material. The marine grade that is bought from the upholstery shop is even better.
I have not one piece of peeling vinyl in my 13 year old camper. Seems like the peeling is a rather limited exception, rather than a rule. 26 out of the 1265 members here have participated in a poll to say they had peeling. 2%. Lets say only 1/2 participated... that would be 4%, or 1 in 25. I dont mind those odds.
Should they peel, you will have the first TWO "I Told You So" 's and I will be warning people with you. But for now, it is the only practical option.
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I didn't get the ISS as these just use the standard seat belt attachment that bolts right on to the seat pan. Doug even had an "extra" seat belt bracket for the passenger side to replace my original that had cracked plastic cover.
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Dog yard
Nice seats! Classy and comfortable!
Do they have a sofa replacement too?
Ron S
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I didn't get the ISS as these just use the standard seat belt attachment that bolts right on to the seat pan. Doug even had an "extra" seat belt bracket for the passenger side to replace my original that had cracked plastic cover.
Nice. I was suspecting there was an easier answer. Those look great.
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Dog yard
Nice seats! Classy and comfortable!
Do they have a sofa replacement too?
Ron S
Yes, they do jackknife sofas and other furniture. Unfortunately they do NOT do the euro chairs, at least not yet.....
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tymote tymote tymote tymote tymote tymote
Dogyard! I do like the looks of many of the Superior Seating products. Thanks for the heads up.
I just wish they had a user friendly website... I like to shop options and prices on my own. Seems like you have to call this company and sit on the phone to get info. >(
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Volkemon - agreed on the website and having ability to research online. It took me a while to figure out that I needed to look under "Van Seats" section - http://www.superior-seats.com/Truck-RV-Van-Seats - to find what I wanted. Once I finally connected with Ryan he emailed me seat pan layout (attached) and sent fabric samples via priority mail. When I picked up my seats there I got a better understanding, they have MANY people manufacturing (they showed me how seats are made/sewed) but very few admin/sales people evident. They operate a bit like Phoenix that way. They do a LOT of replacement seats for semi-truck drivers, sprinter vans, etc and seem to have much higher ratings than some other seat shops. I actually would have preferred to buy from Paul's to stay "original" but after comparing the build, firmness and comfort of these seats to those in brand new PC's at the factory I'm more than satisfied I switched.
EDIT - added options quote and final invoice for seats.
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Well hey... thanks yet again. Both for the pics, and for the insight on how to deal with the company.
I do like the styling, and the price seems right in line. Got my lumbar support as an option.. Long lead time is a bummer...but custom. Gotta remember that.
I am going to pursue this option. The Luxor sure fits the bill, sporty looks but wider in the shoulder. I am broad in the back, and many side bolsters tend to 'fold' my shoulders forward. Looks like i am not the first with that problem for them. http://superior-seats.com/Luxor (http://superior-seats.com/Luxor)
(http://superior-seats.com/media/uploads/0/262_Luxor_big-2trans.png)
Now... black with charcoal inserts, or charcoal with black inserts... The 'Pièce De Résistance' of the cockpit... tymote
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Back in the day when replacing our barrel chair with a 3rd captain seat, I recall there were two standard bolt patterns. Of coarse our barrel seat pedestal had one and the front seats had the other. I seem to recall barrel chair being 8"oc, and front seats being 11"oc. I think I have a couple of pictures on this.
Maybe this information just clouds up the conversation.
Ah, here they are, barrel chair on the left, captain chair on the right. I ordered the captain seat with the same bolt pattern, thinking it's 8"oc. I could confirm this if it matters to anyone.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7920/46586254944_22d64019e7_z.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7808/32367790077_1303b11591_z.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4543/38066818464_59da1639fa_z.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7813/46394369205_f4d40eac53_z.jpg)
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8x11 and 11x14 are standard per 'Shop4Seats' and mine is a 11x14 in front. Our 'rear chair' was removed before we had the coach, and the free floor space is useful to us.
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As the OP of this thread, I got to thinking about something yesterday. We went out to the place we keep our PC stored (which is down the road about three miles and has about 200 enclosed completely self contained storage slots for boats and rvs, each with 15 amp service and solid metal walls between units---nice place), got out our PC 2350 and took it up the turnpike 25 miles with the generator under the load of the heat strips to exercise it. We do this about every four weeks when in seasonal storage just to protect the generator and exercise the Ford a bit.
Reflecting on how much we enjoy our PC, I got curious today and took all the options on our 2350 and plugged them into the Pricing area of the Phoenix Cruiser website. WOW. List price is $142,234 and "net" is $113,788. With the new dealer network advertising to sell only at that net figure (true or not, I don't have any idea) that is a heck of a lot of dough.
I wonder if the new pricing has actually had a positive influence on the value of well maintained existing PCs?? Without Blemish One interior or exterior, I have to ask myself why a person would buy new when they could buy my same layout rig for half that "net" price.....or less. Now, folks always love the smell of new and want to get the options they want, but to save $50,000 I would have real pause if I was in the market for a new RV and could buy a well maintained used rig for half the price. And no, our 2350 is not for sale. tymote
You could do a lot of upgrades, repairs, mods for fifty large.
Just thinking out loud on a foggy, cool day waiting on sunshine and spring.
Paul
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A little clarity on the issue m:|
https://nh.craigslist.org/rvd/d/kingston-2019-pheonix-cruiser/6824782323.html
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Very interesting CalCruiser. And as for Doneworking's comment, I too wonder. I assume the value of our rig was bumped up in value given the price increase of a brand new equivalent with relatively the same features and options. My rig being so old now can't compete with 7-10 year old PCs unless I dropped the sale price way less than such competition. But to be honest, the only time I would care about the value of our PC, is if it got into a severe accident and we had to determine it's value for a "totaled" state.
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Can you really get a new one the way you want it, customized exactly? This could be the deal breaker. If you can't, buying used is the only way to go.
Doug
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Reflecting on how much we enjoy our PC, I got curious today and took all the options on our 2350 and plugged them into the Pricing area of the Phoenix Cruiser website. WOW. List price is $142,234 and "net" is $113,788. With the new dealer network advertising to sell only at that net figure (true or not, I don't have any idea) that is a heck of a lot of dough.
Can you really get a new one the way you want it, customized exactly? This could be the deal breaker. If you can't, buying used is the only way to go.
At the risk of repeating information that I posted in an earlier thread, I wanted to provide what I believe is accurate information to the questions touched on by Paul and Doug in the their earlier comments. When I was at Elkhart in mid-February to take delivery of my unit, I had a fairly in-depth conversation with two PC officials about the new sales arrangement with Campers Inn. In addition to learning that the agreement had just gone into force the previous week, I was naturally curious about any details of the arrangement. One of the things that they emphasized was that the agreement with Campers Inn would require Campers Inn to make sales at same pricing and discount that Phoenix is currently using. I don't know whether CI has the option to inflate the "listed" price in their advertising (which might account for some of the "$200,000" listings that we've seen), but they cannot discount the actual sale to less than the Phoenix factory direct price, and they have agreed to sell at the factory discount price as reflected in the ad that CalCruiser posted.
To address Doug's question, the current arrangement is that you can either buy a Phoenix Cruiser that is sitting on a Campers Inn lot as is, or you can spec one out to be built with whatever options and add-ons you want. There may be a question regarding how long the current arrangement will remain in force, but for the "foreseeable future" (their statement) you can call Phoenix at Elkhart and spec out a new PC with them just as has been done for years. You can take delivery at the factory. The only difference is that the actual sale will be processed through Campers Inn. I heard this process explained over the telephone in detail to one caller while I was sitting in the sales office. I did not ask, but I assume (it makes sense) that you can also work with a Campers Inn dealership to spec out a custom unit, just like you could talking to the factory. Regardless of whether you are buying a pre-built unit on a Campers Inn lot, or spec'ing a new build at the factory, the pricing will be by the existing Phoenix price and discount terms. I was also told that in the near future, a Campers Inn representative will be permanently assigned to the factory at Elkhart to directly coordinate all sales, warranty, and other issues for units processed through Campers Inn.
Any of these details can certainly change in the future, but after talking with Phoenix three weeks ago, I feel confident in what I'm reporting at this point.
All the best, Mike
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Thanks for the updates and amplification folks. Since PC has always been a low volume, niche market product it will be academically interesting to me to observe how this plays out over time.
Historically, a purchaser of a new rv (particularly at the higher price point units) would do as Mike has rcently reported his purchasing process: a lengthy research period , study, a lot of thought and only then execution. Now- as we have a generational switch to younger buyers becoming more dominant - I will be interested to observe over the next few years how the industry changes and modifies. Given economies to scale, it will be interesting to see how the higher end lower production companies like Carriage House and PC turn out and transform themselves.
What will be their business models? I guarantee only that they will be changing and modifying more than in the past.
Given well over a decade of low interest rates and a market developed for recreational vehicle finance paper which is much different than the historical norm, it will be interesting to watch what happens when that decreases in an economic downturn. Let's just hope the manufacturers don't follow the hotel market and use algorithms to price their product based on how many times you query or look at specific things on their sites. pyho
Paul
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What will be their business models? I guarantee only that they will be changing and modifying more than in the past.
You hit the nail, I hope they are up for it.
Doug
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Very interesting CalCruiser. And as for Doneworking's comment, I too wonder. I assume the value of our rig was bumped up in value given the price increase of a brand new equivalent with relatively the same features and options. My rig being so old now can't compete with 7-10 year old PCs unless I dropped the sale price way less than such competition.
We started shopping in summer 2017 for a camper, and a B+ was determined to be 'The Style' we wanted. Our budget was ~$25K, so we were in the range of many 2004-2009 B+'s and several bigger C class rigs to 2011. We just stayed in budget, and are happy with the purchase.
Looking now at the same source (Craigslist), there are not as many and the prices went up!
2007 COACHMEN CONCORD 275 DS $36500
2007 Forest River Lexington 255DS $29900
2007 Jayco Melbourne 29D $34800
2008 coachman freelander class c 32ft $29000
and so on. Reduce your price??? Your coach is easily worth more now than last year, IMO. Make sure your insurance keeps up!