Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: jfcaramagno on December 17, 2018, 12:11:54 am
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We had a tread separate enough on one tire that it made the Moho shimmey. The tires are 5 years old and have 27,000 miles on them. I wonder, should we replace just the bad tire, both front tires (the bad one is on the front) or all six?
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I would replace all six tires, especially because of their age. When we had a fifth wheel, we had a tire have a tread separation that destroyed the side of our unit. The tires were only four years old. We replaced it and in less than 500 miles, one on the opposite side blew out. We decided to replace all of the tires in the middle of our trip and discovered that one of the remaining tires had a tread separation. Some people will not agree with me , and that's fine, but they have not experienced having a tread separation that destroys the side of their RV.
During one of our trips to the Phoenix factory, before we ordered our 3100, we saw one at the factory that had had a blowout and it tore up the side of it. We will never run tires on an RV longer than 7 years and will probably replace them before that. Tires are cheaper than having to get the unit repaired.
Gary
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As tires age their ability to carry weight decreases with time. On my 2552 there is not a huge margin between actual and allowable load even when new and inflated to max pressure, I.e. max load carrying ability.
I agree with Gary to replace all 6 tires. It is not worth the risk to life and property to not replace all tires especially with the known fact that there is a history of tread separation on your 5 year old tires.
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You know me, I have to be different.
I would put the new tire in front. Also put the unused spare tire up front so you have your best two tires there, then get a few more years of use from the setup. When it's time to replace all the other tires, make today's new tire, your spare tire.
I don't know the tire pressure you are running at. If at the max of 80 psi, I might agree with the advise from other people and replace all tires sooner.
Our almost 12 year old 2007 PC-2350 is lighter weighted with no slide-out. It still has the original tires and ~40k miles on the vehicle. I run 65 psi in all tires. Our PC is always stored indoors except when on a trip which I assume is why they show no signs of aging. Our two front tires developed an odd wear pattern from our old Koni-RV shock absorbers gone bad but all six tires still have plenty of thread. I am on the fence on getting one more year of use from them. I hope to upgrade to Alcoa Dura-Bright alloy wheels when replacing all tires.
I know, I know. Please don't preach to or jinx me.
Ron Dittmer, the guy with universally accepted bad advice when it comes to tires. :lol
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Replace them all for sure! They have all rolled the same number of times! I would check the date stamp on the side wall, they could be much older than you think. While the spare may be and option it to could be old and dry rotted from the inside out. At 68 MPH with people doing 80 around me I want the best rubber possible under me period.
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The tire question rears its ugly head occasionally on all RVing boards, blogs, etc. It's like "what came first, the chicken or the egg? Or, "to flush paper down the toilet or conveniently throw it in a nearby receptacle".
Now for my 2 cents. There are only a few answers that I have read concerning age. I have seen a couple that indicated 4 years, IMO way too soon. Seems the norm used to be 5 years, but I have read more and more comments of 7 years. When I sold my 40' DP, the tires were 7 years old with excellent tread and no sign of wall cracking. If I had kept the beast, I may have gone another year or two, but only on shorter trips (not from Tennessee to out west, etc). I also read a report from Michelin that indicated up to 10 years. BTW, I did not have Michelins, but regular Firestone truck tires. I will add that these truck tires performed great. Lots cheaper than a tire sold specifically for motorhomes (such as those offered by Goodyear's G670RV and the Michelin). Another good reason for truck tires, is they are readily available if needed on the side of the road. The truck tires I installed were a slightly different size and only affected the speedometer, but we all use GPS, right? The Firestone Truck tires replace G670RV's.
I now realize that I have not checked the DOT date on my current tires, but I took possession of my PC just this past September. Unless something causes me to change, I am thinking I will go with 7 years before replacing the Hankooks I now have.
Regarding the OP's question. I would replace all the tires. Depending on the spare's age (if one), it could be replaced by one of the other tires being replaced. Hey, it's only money and more can be made tomorrow.!
MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HOLIDAYS, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
CHEERS :)(:
Barry T
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Barry T,
I also read on somewhere (it's been some years) that Michelin recommended up to 12 years. Given my unique situation with ideal vehicle storage and tire preservation, this spring will my 12 year mark. My 2007 E350 chassis was built 2 or 3 months before my 2007 PC was completed meaning Phoenix must have ordered my 2007 E350 chassis specifically for my PC build.
Both Ford and Michelin have used JIT for many years, so the age of my tires can't be much older than my PC.
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Barry T,
I also read on somewhere (it's been some years) that Michelin recommended up to 12 years. Given my unique situation with ideal vehicle storage and tire preservation, this spring will my 12 year mark. My 2007 E350 chassis was built 2 or 3 months before my 2007 PC was completed meaning Phoenix must have ordered my 2007 E350 chassis specifically for my PC build.
Both Ford and Michelin have used JIT for many years, so the age of my tires can't be much older than my PC.
Great! Within reason, I suppose there is no right or wrong answer. Now, what's your take on the toilet paper issue? Flush or throw in convenient nearby receptacle?
Barry T
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Barry T,
I also read on somewhere (it's been some years) that Michelin recommended up to 12 years. Given my unique situation with ideal vehicle storage and tire preservation, this spring will my 12 year mark. My 2007 E350 chassis was built 2 or 3 months before my 2007 PC was completed meaning Phoenix must have ordered my 2007 E350 chassis specifically for my PC build.
Both Ford and Michelin have used JIT for many years, so the age of my tires can't be much older than my PC.
Great! Within reason, I suppose there is no right or wrong answer. Now, what's your take on the toilet paper issue? Flush or throw in convenient nearby receptacle?
Barry T
The Michlins that came stock on my PC are truck tires, light truck tires... Thus the 80psi max inflation. Load Range E tires. Obviously, they are not designed for passenger cars or for 20,000 lb + GVWR trucks.
My personal limit is 6 years from build date no matter what the mileage, it's time to replace. Yes, I know people (as noted above) who go more years and I know people who have had tires go in less time.
There are 2 things on a vehicle I will not cheap out on. Tires and brakes. Those are the 2 things that if they fail, can literally kill you as you are tooling down the interstate at 60 to 85mph.
Toilet paper.. Flush it.
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I would replace them all. There is a lot riding on that decision😉. Peace of mind has some value also.
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You know me, I have to be different.
I would put the new tire in front. Also put the unused spare tire up front so you have your best two tires there, then get a few more years of use from the setup. When it's time to replace all the other tires, make today's new tire, your spare tire.
I don't know the tire pressure you are running at. If at the max of 80 psi, I might agree with the advise from other people and replace all tires sooner.
Ron, love your improvement ideas but...this one is not sage advice.
A SPARE tire is a SPARE. Unless included in your rotation schedule, not a regular service tire. I dont rotate my spare, and it is the original michelin. I will use it as a SPARE until it shows degradation, as it is stored out of weather. When it is used, it will be sparingly.
Replace your front tires in pairs. They are arguably the most important item in road safety. Dont save a few bucks gambling with your life. Or other motorists.
All other factors being equal, running 65psi in your truck tires will cause them to have a shorter life than at 80 psi. Why? One of the primary causes of tire failure is heat build up, and sidewall flexing is a big player. The higher your inflation, the less flex. Not like light duty car tires, that may bulge the tread and wear a line in the center. (and that is a holdover from bias ply tires, radials do not even do that much)
Just rotated my tires because the fronts had a slight cupping from bearings being loose. Hit all the sidewalls with tire protectant... to protect those inners, not for the shine. (nod) But the shine looks good outside.
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You know me, I have to be different.
I would put the new tire in front. Also put the unused spare tire up front so you have your best two tires there, then get a few more years of use from the setup. When it's time to replace all the other tires, make today's new tire, your spare tire.
I don't know the tire pressure you are running at. If at the max of 80 psi, I might agree with the advise from other people and replace all tires sooner.
Ron, love your improvement ideas but...this one is not sage advice.
A SPARE tire is a SPARE. Unless included in your rotation schedule, not a regular service tire. I dont rotate my spare, and it is the original michelin. I will use it as a SPARE until it shows degradation, as it is stored out of weather. When it is used, it will be sparingly.
Replace your front tires in pairs. They are arguably the most important item in road safety. Dont save a few bucks gambling with your life. Or other motorists.
All other factors being equal, running 65psi in your truck tires will cause them to have a shorter life than at 80 psi. Why? One of the primary causes of tire failure is heat build up, and sidewall flexing is a big player. The higher your inflation, the less flex. Not like light duty car tires, that may bulge the tread and wear a line in the center. (and that is a holdover from bias ply tires, radials do not even do that much)
Just rotated my tires because the fronts had a slight cupping from bearings being loose. Hit all the sidewalls with tire protectant... to protect those inners, not for the shine. (nod) But the shine looks good outside.
So sorry. I think I misled everyone when mentioning 65 psi instead of 80 psi.
My implication was that I carry a lesser load requiring less tire pressure (65 psi) hence a less stressful condition on the tires. Less stress along with "indoor & heated winter" storage should translate into extended use per Michelin's 12 year limit "under certain conditions".
If my actual RV load required 80 psi, then I would surely agree to put in 80 psi. A max load at max tire pressure, adding outdoor "exposed to the elements" storage, all adds up to "less than ideal" conditions for extended life consideration.
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Actually Michelin recommends replacing tires not later than 10 years from date of manufacture. Below is an excerpt from Michelin’s RV Manual.
“ GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT MICHELIN® RV TIRES
SERVICE LIFE FOR RV/MOTORHOME TIRES
The following recommendation applies to RV/Motorhome tires. Tires are composed of various types of material and rubber compounds, having performance properties essential to the proper functioning of the tire itself. These component properties evolve over time.
For each tire, this evolution depends upon many factors such as weather, storage conditions, and conditions of use (load, speed, inflation pressure, maintenance, etc.)
to which the tire is subjected throughout its life. This service-related evolution varies widely so that accurately predicting the serviceable life of any specific tire in advance is not possible.
That is why, in addition to regular inspections and inflation pressure maintenance by consumers, it is recommended to have RV/Motorhome tires, including spare tires, inspected regularly by a qualified tire specialist, such as a tire dealer, who will assess the tire’s suitability for continued service. Tires that have been in use for 5 years or more should continue to be inspected by a specialist at least annually.
Consumers are strongly encouraged to be aware not only of their tires’ visual conditions and inflation pressures, but also of any changes in dynamic performances such as increased gas loss, noise, or vibration, which could be an indication that the tires need to be removed from service to prevent tire failure. It is impossible to predict when tires should be replaced based on their calendar age alone. However, the older a tire, the greater the chance that it will need to be replaced due to the service-related evolution or other conditions found upon inspection or detected during use.
While most tires will need replacement before they achieve 10 years, it is recommended that any tires in service 10 years or more from the date of manufacture, including spare tires, be replaced with new tires as a simple precaution even if such tires appear serviceable and even if they have not reached the legal wear limit.
For tires that were on an original equipment vehicle (i.e. acquired by the consumer on a new vehicle), follow the vehicle manufacturer’s tire replacement recommendations when specified (but not to exceed 10 years).
The date when a tire was manufactured is located on the sidewall of each tire. RV owners should locate the Department of Transportation or DOT code on the tire that begins with DOT and ends with the week and year
of manufacture. For example, a DOT code ending with “0304” indicates a tire made in the 3rd week (Jan) of 2004.
Tire Size
Optional Code
Manufacture Date
Plant DOT
MICHELIN
THE IMPORTANCE OF TIRE PRESSURE
The most important factor in maintaining the life of MICHELIN® RV tires is making sure they are always properly inflated. Incorrect pressure for the weight
of the vehicle is dangerous and could cause things like premature wear, tire damage, or a harsher ride.
An underinflated or overloaded tire will build up more heat that could go beyond the endurance limits of the rubber and radial cords. This could cause sudden tire failure. Underinflation will also cause poor handling, faster and/or irregular tire wear, and can decrease fuel economy.
Overinflation, on the other hand, will reduce the tire’s contact area with the road, which reduces traction, braking ability, and handling. A tire that’s overinflated for the weight it’s carrying is more prone to a harsh ride,”
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And so there I have it.
Thanks fandj
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Thanks for the sage advice. FWIW; the DOT date on my tires is 2013; I inflated the tires to 75 front and 80 rear for 3 years until I could get the Moho properly weighed, then I switched to 66 a ll around; the sidewalls are a little bit checked. I think the peace of mind argument makes the most sense for me: all six tires it will be.
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I just checked the date codes on my tires. 1307 (last week in March 2007)
Even though the tires still have great side walls and decent thread, you people have me making sure I get 6 new tires before our next long cross-country trip. I also want to buy the Alcoa Dura-Bright (https://buytruckwheels.com/collections/ford-e450-e350/products/ford-e350-e450-16-alcoa-durabright-wheel-package) wheel package when replacing tires.
I am thinking of keeping the original unused spare tire that never sees the light of day. What do you people think?
Every year for the past few years, I window-shop for RV tires on Tire Rack's website. I always conclude that the Sumutomo Encounter HT (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=Encounter+HT&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2007&autoModel=Econoline&autoModClar=E350&partnum=275TR6EHT) tire is going to be the one. It has great ratings and also a great price. I buy all my tires from Tire Rack and as always, I mount and balance them myself. Over many years, I have bought many different brands of tires including other Sumutomo tires for 3 different performance cars and have always been very pleased with them.
I plan to recoup some cash by selling my original Phoenix-installed steel wheel covers and four E350/E450 steel wheels with old tires mounted.
One thing I still need to research are valve stems. I don't want any type of valve extension. I never rotate tires on the PC so each tire position can have unique stems for adequate access. The Alcoa wheels further complicates this due to them being made of thicker-than-steel, alloy material.
I am not interested in a tire pressure monitoring system.
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I am thinking of keeping the original unused spare tire that never sees the light of day. What do you people think?
Last time I had a flat tire in my previous RV, the guy that came to change the tire didn't want to do it because the spare was more than 10 years old. He said it was company policy. I finally convinced him to use my space since I was only a few miles from home. But beware - unless you change your own tires.
Peg
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Rubber deteriates with age, it may look ok when in fact it is not. I have a tandem axle car hauler that I bought new in 2007 used it infrequently and stored it indoors most of the time. Last summer 2 of the 4 tires blew out while it was parked and hadn’t been moved for a year. The blow outs ocurred about 6 weeks apart. I put 4 new tires on it even though I intend to sell it. I didn’t want to put some unsuspecting buyer in danger. A local tire shop here won’t repair, mount, or sell a used tire over 5 years old, the owner told me the liability is too great.
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I am thinking of keeping the original unused spare tire that never sees the light of day. What do you people think?
Last time I had a flat tire in my previous RV, the guy that came to change the tire didn't want to do it because the spare was more than 10 years old. He said it was company policy. I finally convinced him to use my space since I was only a few miles from home. But beware - unless you change your own tires.
Peg
Thanks for sharing that. I do change my own tires, but it is good to know.
Speaking about changing tires. For the first time, I recently dismounted and remounted the front tires of our PC when replacing the shocks all around. I was pleasantly surprised how easy-handling they were. God did not bless me with the strength of my piers, and this year I turned 60 so neither am I a young guy.
If you never changed a tire on your PC, but are comfortable doing it on your other vehicles, I think you will find how uneventful it is. It is so much faster than sitting around waiting for a service to do it for you. The most questionable part of the job would be lifting the flat tire up into the storage area in back. Two seniors could surely do it without a worry, but if you are not comfortable doing so, roll it up into the house to get you going to a tire center.