Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: CalCruiser on December 03, 2018, 02:34:11 pm
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I have a 77-2570KTK on order. Looking to gain a little climbing power at 3600-3800 rpm and maybe one mpg on the highway. Not too concerned about increased noise.
Have any of you tried this on a Ford 6.8 ?
305 HP from a 6.8 is underwhelming. The Banks system with headers is too involved, but a chambered Magnaflow muffler may be next.
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The engine computer compensates for more or less air flow by kerping the mixture optimum. No more overly rich mixture as used to be the case as the air filter got dirty.
You just get less power. A higher flow muffler won't help if you don't also add a higher flow catalytic converter and, don't increase the amount of air coming in the engine.
In other words, you need an completely involved system like Banks to get any increased power/mpg all the time.
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K&N dyno chart shows 17 hp gain @ 4100 rpm.
My experience is limited to GM LS and LT series engines. Lower IAT tells the ecm pull less timing , and increased MAF tells it to add fuel. Chambered mufflers absolutely reduce back pressure compared to baffled designs. A 6.8 V10 with single exhaust and a 5.4 V8 airbox is restricted on both sides.
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My experience with K&N is not very praising. You may get a very slight increase in horse power under certain conditions, but the filter needs a special dirt-catching oil sprayed on it to capture fine particles. As a result, it clogs much more easily & quickly compared to a standard pleated paper filter. The end result is that you have to maintain it much more frequently or it will do more harm than good. If the oil is sprayed too heavily on the filter, then is placed inside the air housing, the air chamber itself will get oily making a bigger mess with a layer of dirty sludge clinging all over the place. It was just too much fuss for what little it might offer under driving certain conditions. I learned this off a different vehicle, not our E350 PC.
I suppose a K&N would serve me well under competition driving where the entire vehicle is inspected and tweaked just before a competition. But I never had such a hobby.
On our PC, I check the standard pleated paper air filter annually and typically change it every other year regardless how clean it looks. We average roughly 4000 miles per year.
There are extreme cases calling for immediate changing of the air filter. For example, driving our old Toyota motor home down inside Monument Valley when it was very windy. I opened the filter housing after our visit and the entire pleated paper air filter was covered with a layer of red dust. Changing your air filter by miles driven works to a point, but pay attention to unique circumstances.
Since we are discussing air filters and intake, everyone with a Ford chassis should read through THIS (https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=2931.0) post I wrote on how anyone working on your Ford could make a simple mistake during assembly, causing a very significant air flow blockage.
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When I bought my 2014 Sprinter 2350 used last year it came with a K&N air filter which was rather dirty. After doing some research I found that some owners advised against the K&N stating that applying too much of the special oil to the filter after washing it can cause the Mercedes Blutek engine to throw a “check engine” code. I replaced the filter with a OEM Mann filter and actually noticed a slight improvement in mpg. However, I must add that at the same time I had the exhaust extension on the tailpipe that was added at the time the motorhome conversion removed and replaced by one that fit over the original pipe instead of inside of it. Although a minor change it did remove some restriction that had been added to the exhaust.
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K&N dyno chart shows 17 hp gain @ 4100 rpm.
My experience is limited to GM LS and LT series engines. Lower IAT tells the ecm pull less timing , and increased MAF tells it to add fuel. Chambered mufflers absolutely reduce back pressure compared to baffled designs. A 6.8 V10 with single exhaust and a 5.4 V8 airbox is restricted on both sides.
But on the highway, where the majority of most RV mileage is run, you're running around 2,600 rpm where the increase in horsepower is minimal. In Colorado, where I live, the only place I pull 4,100rpm is over the high passes on the continental divide. And yes, I use a K&N filter and have for years, mainly because I do live in the mountains. They last a lot longer too.
But the end result is *maybe* 1 or 2 miles per hour faster over those passes. Certainly nothing significant or really even noticeable.
Don
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My experience with K&N is not very praising. You may get a very slight increase in horse power under certain conditions, but the filter needs a special dirt-catching oil sprayed on it to capture fine particles. As a result, it clogs much more easily & quickly compared to a standard pleated paper filter. The end result is that you have to maintain it much more frequently or it will do more harm than good. If the oil is sprayed too heavily on the filter, then is placed inside the air housing, the air chamber itself will get oily making a bigger mess with a layer of dirty sludge clinging all over the place. It was just too much fuss for what little it might offer under driving certain conditions. I learned this off a different vehicle, not our E350 PC.
I suppose a K&N would serve me well under competition driving where the entire vehicle is inspected and tweaked just before a competition. But I never had such a hobby.
On our PC, I check the standard pleated paper air filter annually and typically change it every other year regardless how clean it looks. We average roughly 4000 miles per year.
There are extreme cases calling for immediate changing of the air filter. For example, driving our old Toyota motor home down inside Monument Valley when it was very windy. I opened the filter housing after our visit and the entire pleated paper air filter was covered with a layer of red dust. Changing your air filter by miles driven works to a point, but pay attention to unique circumstances.
Since we are discussing air filters and intake, everyone with a Ford chassis should read through THIS (https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=2931.0) post I wrote on how anyone working on your Ford could make a simple mistake during assembly, causing a very significant air flow blockage.
Independent testing has shown that a K&N filter when ready for cleaning (typically 30,000 to 50,000 miles) has better airflow than a brand new standard air filter.
Just sayin
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Independent testing has shown that a K&N filter when ready for cleaning (typically 30,000 to 50,000 miles) has better airflow than a brand new standard air filter.
Just sayin
Tests also show airflow increases even more when you leave the filter out... roflol
What about filtration?
I did find this, and the methodology is impeccable.. IMO.. https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
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Independent testing has shown that a K&N filter when ready for cleaning (typically 30,000 to 50,000 miles) has better airflow than a brand new standard air filter.
Just sayin
Tests also show airflow increases even more when you leave the filter out... roflol
What about filtration?
I did find this, and the methodology is impeccable.. IMO.. https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
Volkemon....
Those test results speak so loudly. Just use a pleated paper filter, OEM is best, but any brand changed regularly does the job well.
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K&N dyno chart shows 17 hp gain @ 4100 rpm.
My experience is limited to GM LS and LT series engines. Lower IAT tells the ecm pull less timing , and increased MAF tells it to add fuel. Chambered mufflers absolutely reduce back pressure compared to baffled designs. A 6.8 V10 with single exhaust and a 5.4 V8 airbox is restricted on both sides.
But on the highway, where the majority of most RV mileage is run, you're running around 2,600 rpm where the increase in horsepower is minimal. In Colorado, where I live, the only place I pull 4,100rpm is over the high passes on the continental divide. And yes, I use a K&N filter and have for years, mainly because I do live in the mountains. They last a lot longer too.
But the end result is *maybe* 1 or 2 miles per hour faster over those passes. Certainly nothing significant or really even noticeable.
Don
We live at sea level, but the Sierras Nevadas are only 500 miles north. I am envious of the 6.7 Powerstroke diesel F250 guys. I don't exceed 3850rpm because that's where peak hp and torque cross, at 56mph in 2nd gear (E350). On all but the steepest stretches of I-80 between Sacramento and Truckee 3rd gear at 2750 rpm keeps pace with anyone, and motors on past the slow tractor trailer rigs. But when it has to drop down to 2nd it's a strain to keep up with an F250 Powerstroke pulling a trailer. So hopefully increasing peak hp from 305 @ 3850 to 322@4100 will make a difference of a few mph as you said.
Cruise control in the flatlands at 65 mph @ 2300 rpm (E350 gearing) is pleasant enough in stock form because the V10 is already making 400 ft/lbs torque. Perhaps increased throttle response and a few more hp will yield shorter downshifts on minor grades and a slight improvement in mpg , although that's not the main objective.
I ordered the complete intake kit, not just a filter.
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I have been holding off on installing the chip tune I got while searching for a dyno that can accommodate a motor home. Found a couple that handle the weight and duallies, but are lacking in ceiling height. pyho Oh well. I am about SICK of waiting to do it ""right"". Have to use ye olde 'seat of the pants' dyno. Maybe choose a couple spots for timed runs.
Or just do the 'I paid for this, it must feel better! ' route. roflol
But it gives me that same 17hp increase as the K&N, but at 2800 RPM. (42HP extra at 3200 RPM). I have yet to find a dyno chart to demonstrate the K&N filter HP increase/engine RPM. Might be out there, I just cant find it. :-D
The 'power band' (torque peak to HP peak) is 3900-5000+ RPM stock. 3300-4600 modified with the chip tune.
Useful torque? Over 60 ft/lbs increase (25%!) over stock 3100-3600RPM
Unfortunately the kit is not legal or shipped to CA. :'( But I would be a REALLY hard sell on a $400 air intake that might increase power %6, regardless of how limited my other options were.
I might even be tempted to use shenanigans with an out of state friend to get the chip tune. Easily reversible should smog check be needed.
My PC needs to be exercised, been parked for a few weeks. Maybe I will install the tune and drive it in to work the next few days and see if it is a 'ride changing' event.
Wont have the cool intake roar though. That does seem to be a common feature of aftermarket air intakes. Turn up the radio.
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I have been holding off on installing the chip tune I got while searching for a dyno that can accommodate a motor home. Found a couple that handle the weight and duallies, but are lacking in ceiling height. pyho Oh well. I am about SICK of waiting to do it ""right"". Have to use ye olde 'seat of the pants' dyno. Maybe choose a couple spots for timed runs.
Or just do the 'I paid for this, it must feel better! ' route. roflol
But it gives me that same 17hp increase as the K&N, but at 2800 RPM. (42HP extra at 3200 RPM). I have yet to find a dyno chart to demonstrate the K&N filter HP increase/engine RPM. Might be out there, I just cant find it. :-D
The 'power band' (torque peak to HP peak) is 3900-5000+ RPM stock. 3300-4600 modified with the chip tune.
Useful torque? Over 60 ft/lbs increase (25%!) over stock 3100-3600RPM
Unfortunately the kit is not legal or shipped to CA. :'( But I would be a REALLY hard sell on a $400 air intake that might increase power %6, regardless of how limited my other options were.
I might even be tempted to use shenanigans with an out of state friend to get the chip tune. Easily reversible should smog check be needed.
My PC needs to be exercised, been parked for a few weeks. Maybe I will install the tune and drive it in to work the next few days and see if it is a 'ride changing' event.
Wont have the cool intake roar though. That does seem to be a common feature of aftermarket air intakes. Turn up the radio.
Just get a Scangauge, no dyno needed ;)
Before you reflash the ecm make sure your battery voltage is good, and turn off all dome lights and anything else that could cause a voltage drop while programming. The ecm in my car had a checksum error failure at 50k miles that may have been caused by a Diablosport Predator, resulting in an expensive flatbed tow to the GM dealership.
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Well now... A scanguage can tell HP/torque output?!? I was under the impression that it was an OBDII data reader.
A bit of reading does state it can determine 'Instantaneous Horespower'. Maybe not accurate as compared to a dyno, but it would be good for comparing before and after! The 5 star devise does give me the data, but doesnt 'do the math' and give horsepower numbers... and only $130.
https://www.campingworld.com/scangaugekr-kevin-rutherford-edition?CAWELAID=120030630000004418&gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMoP1hdKJ0Ob_J56JMW_s155XOKdORnQkATiaeoM5PO_406n7LAnIJ8aAjTiEALw_wcB
Might check at camping world on the way home. Drove the PC in to work today to get a baseline feel before I flash the ECM tonight. Will have the battery topped off. Good advice!
Now I have to see who Kevin Rutherford is, and why a scangage is named after him... :lol
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I have yet to find a dyno chart to demonstrate the K&N filter HP increase/engine RPM. Might be out there, I just cant find it. :-D
The 'power band' (torque peak to HP peak) is 3900-5000+ RPM stock.
Dynojet rwhp and torque stock vs K&N intake. Click on the graph in this link to download the entire chart.
https://www.knfilters.com/mobile/blog/kn-releases-ford-motorhome-super-duty-van-air-intake-with-more-power-guarantee
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Don't forget, horsepower is torque x rpm (divided by a constant) so torque is the ONLY measurement you need.
At any rpm, the higher the torque, the higher the hp.
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Don't forget, horsepower is torque x rpm (divided by a constant) so torque is the ONLY measurement you need.
At any rpm, the higher the torque, the higher the hp.
Not to be overly pendantic, but if horsepower is torque x rpm (divided by a constant), one better have at least TWO measurements - RPM and Torque?
But that aside....
Yeah, thats what I thought also, until I was informed about the scangage reading HP... and I knew it had no way of reading torque!
Evidently one does not need torque to get the measure for instantaneous horsepower, which is what the scangage reads. Was news to me, but a good lesson. Never too old to learn..
source - https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090704102835AAve62z&guccounter=1
@CalCruiser - Thanks for the chart. It does confirm that the peak added power is way up (4100 RPM). With the added noise, the K&N is still not a desired mod for me. Too much buck, not enough bang. :-D
And if anyone is waiting on chiptune results.. Sorry! Did not do the chip flash last night, found I had a right front wheel bearing that was showing some play. It had started as a slight vibration at 75-80 mph last trip, I assumed tire imbalance. It moved down to 65-70mph so I checked closer...and the wheel shows excess clearance in the bearing. I re-used the stock ones when I did the new brakes, so maybe they have reached EOL. (Yes, i did clean, inspect and re-grease them! Auto parts store gave me the wrong ones, so had to re-use due to time) I had to use the pre-installed seat that came in the disc, however, and mating a used bearing race to a new seat may have introduced excess wear. So she stayed parked today, doing the bearing(s) tonight.
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Nah.. You don't need both, you just need torque. If it's higher than it was at any given point, you have increased the HP. RPM is linear, torque isn't.
Where you get the most bang for your buck is in the 2,000 to 3,000 RPM range. That's where the majority of your use is and where an increase in power will mean less gas usage to maintain that RPM.
Again, were are not talking big numbers, we're talking a few percent. Even the reported 17 HP increase at 4100 RPM is only a 5% (in round numbers) increase. Hardly noticeable really.
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By the way, IMHO the best number to read from a scan gauge type device is Engine Load. Again, the numbers will be small.
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Finally got to road test this on a 1600 mile trip through the mountains. It exceeded all expectations.
R/T from sea level to Moab UT via 15 to 70 to 191 with cc set at 67 achieved consistent 11.6 mpg calculated at fill-ups, not just watching the scan gauge. The Ford V10 sings and pulls like a freight train at 3200 rpm while maintaining 67mph on grades . We climbed through 7700 and 6600 feet multiple times but my 4 speed auto never dropped to 2nd gear and the ambient temperature was cool enough that I felt ok with letting the cc hold it at 67 in 3rd at 3200rpm. This completely changes the driving characteristics by letting the engine rev another 500 rpm higher instead of downshifting again, and driving 160 miles on 1/4 tank is a very noticeable 15% improvement.
It really works !!
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.........and driving 160 miles on 1/4 tank is a very noticeable 15% improvement.
Here are my thoughts on this suggestion.
Regardless of the type of vehicle with fuel pump in-tank, when driving with less than 1/4 tank of gas, the fuel pump's electric motor is not kept cool by fuel because it is no longer submerged in fuel, hence you are reducing the life expectancy of the fuel pump's electric motor. I always tell my family to make it a habit to fill up when the tank is 1/4 full. Doing so is good practice to avoid the cost to replace the fuel pump assembly. They never fail at a good time or in a good place, so add the cost of towing and the over-all inconvenience. Replacing an in-tank fuel pump can easily cost you over $600 plus towing and loss of pay and or time.
It's not worth running below 1/4 full for me.
I am not trying to be a critic here, just sharing what I have learned over the years.
Ron Dittmer
PS: If your fuel pump dies (no buzzing sound when turning on the ignition) and you are stranded, sometimes you can get lucky by slapping the bottom of the fuel tank while your spouse is cranking the engine. It could take 20 to 30 slaps. The vibration from the slap jolts the armature on the fuel pump's electric motor just enough to get it running again. But don't turn off the engine. Drive directly to a repair center.
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Finally got to road test this on a 1600 mile trip through the mountains. It exceeded all expectations.
R/T from sea level to Moab UT via 15 to 70 to 191 with cc set at 67 achieved consistent 11.6 mpg calculated at fill-ups, not just watching the scan gauge. The Ford V10 sings and pulls like a freight train at 3200 rpm while maintaining 67mph on grades . We climbed through 7700 and 6600 feet multiple times but my 4 speed auto never dropped to 2nd gear and the ambient temperature was cool enough that I felt ok with letting the cc hold it at 67 in 3rd at 3200rpm. This completely changes the driving characteristics by letting the engine rev another 500 rpm higher instead of downshifting again, and driving 160 miles on 1/4 tank is a very noticeable 15% improvement.
It really works !!
So summarize... Exactly what modifications did you do?
Chip upgrade/reprogram? K&N? Muffler replacement? Intake modification? Etc.
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.........and driving 160 miles on 1/4 tank is a very noticeable 15% improvement.
Here are my thoughts on this suggestion.
Regardless of the type of vehicle with fuel pump in-tank, when driving with less than 1/4 tank of gas, the fuel pump's electric motor is not kept cool by fuel because it is no longer submerged in fuel, hence you are reducing the life expectancy of the fuel pump's electric motor. I always tell my family to make it a habit to fill up when the tank is 1/4 full. Doing so is good practice to avoid the cost to replace the fuel pump assembly. They never fail at a good time or in a good place, so add the cost of towing and the over-all inconvenience. Replacing an in-tank fuel pump can easily cost you over $600 plus towing and loss of pay and or time.
It's not worth running below 1/4 full for me.
I am not trying to be a critic here, just sharing what I have learned over the years.
Ron Dittmer
PS: If your fuel pump dies (no buzzing sound when turning on the ignition) and you are stranded, sometimes you can get lucky by slapping the bottom of the fuel tank while your spouse is cranking the engine. It could take 20 to 30 slaps. The vibration from the slap jolts the armature on the fuel pump's electric motor just enough to get it running again. But don't turn off the engine. Drive directly to a repair center.
Doing towing, the 'slap the tank' trick works many times. Makes it so I can drive on the ramp truck instead of winch it up. 2o2 And indeed, those that run low on gas all the time do get more pump failures. Not to mention
that with less gas and more air in the tank the expansion/contraction of the air inside makes it more prone to getting moisture in the tank, although modern fuel systems are MUCH less prone to this than those of 20 yrs ago.
I am fairly sure CalCruiser meant "Driving 160 miles on an indicated 1/4 tank of fuel used" IE: 160 miles from full to 3/4, etc.
Not "we managed to get 160 miles out of the last 1/4 tank of gas". (WH)
This would be the first time a cold air intake, on its own, would have increased mileage by 16%, increased power and even change shift points. In my experience, that is. I am with Donc13 on this one... what else did you do?
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Just the K&N 77-2570KTK, otherwise all oem. The difference is hard to believe. We had a stiff crosswind all the way to Moab too.
For anyone familiar with the route from Vegas to Moab here’s some calculations from my gas receipts:
Hurricane UT to Moab UT 352 miles / 30.28 gal. = 11.624 mpg
Moab UT - Richfield UT 165 mi / 14.3 gal. = 11.538 mpg
Currently in Vegas , only 289 mi since topping off in Richfield. Will fill up again before leaving Nevada and update mpg for the last climb through 7700 ft driving west out of Utah.
Doing 67mph uphill in 3rd at 3200 rpm the scan gauge was showing 6.8 mpg. Before the transmission would typically downshift to 3rd at 2850 then to 2nd and struggle to hold 60mph at 3800 on steep grades. The outside temp was around 75. I was watching the water and transmission temps closely on the scangauge , both only increased 10 degrees on the long climbs.
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Well, no arguing with the findings. Your mileage and driveability are better. Thanks for the update!!
How old/what brand was your previous air filter?
Frankly, I am amazed at the result, and wish I had the time (and money!) to investigate properly. IE: put the old system, old filter on and log results. Old system, NEW filter, log results. If everyone got the results you did, I would be working full time to install them. Hell, the OEM's would kill for a 10% improvement in mileage when new, and I am SURE with their purchasing power their cost would be much lower. And its not like we are dealing with a 'new and exciting' area, 6.8 ford V-10's have been around for a long time, and are fairly well understood.
I have seen cheap air filters reduce power (and mileage), going to a Wix filter in one car that had a generic in it resulted in 20+ hp at the rear wheels on one test. On a ~550 HP smallblock, prolly spinning close to 7K rpm. (AKA 'street grenade' roflol ) Extreme example, but those are the ones that 'stick' in memory, right?
Especially at the (relatively) low RPM's you are dealing with, I wonder how much is the element itself improving VS the cold air assembly. Right now I am running a cheapo STP (not even the 'best' one...the cheapest from AutoZone) Because when I checked the filter the first time, it was HORRIBLE and this was the only one at AZ. Not to mention after doing so, until now, I had not givin one thought to it again. :lol Until this chat.
I may spring for ~$70 and find out.
https://www.knfilters.com/air-filters/e-0945-replacement-air-filter?gclid=CjwKCAjw2cTmBRAVEiwA8YMgzaTy7WciV0hjeiOS7SycYsTmugZemFSqUcd1v-S8x390TOvxEj0DPRoCYYIQAvD_BwE
(https://www.knfilters.com/images/l/E-0945.jpg)
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I would agree with the majority of posters....KN filters are a waste and can do more harm than good. I have used them on 3 E450’s and on a Sprinter and so zero improvement in performance or MPG on any of the applications. I would stick to a paper filter of good quality (Wix, Napa, Baldwin) and change more frequently. If a Sprinter diesel gets a hit of oil thru the intake you can really do some damage. Best of luck.
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I thought you installed a 5 star? That would explain the shift points rather than a filter.
Regarding k&n. Everyone has to decide for themselves. I’ve seen 1500 Honda gold wings with over 400,000 miles , use no oil and had a k& n their entire life. A friend at work had a ford p/ u with a 300 straight 6 with 375,000 and counting when he retired all with a k&n. And this with people who live in the low desert (tons of dust) . Is there an advantage to the K&n power wise, I have no idea, but I’ve known too many people with very high mileage vehicles who run k& n with no ill effects so I don’t buy the “ they cause more harm than good monologue” . Use what ever floats your boat. The internet is full of. Well you know.
IE; Have you ever seen the oil filter site where some random person cuts open oil filters and based on his opinion brand x is garbage and brand y is better than brand w based on what he sees in the thickness of the case or how strong he feels the spring is. And people quote these sites, Seriously? Not one bit of evidence based on lab results, nada. Show me oil analysis on each filter after use, not this one looks better. Sheeeesh, yet people buy into it.
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Ron, did I miss it, I thought he stated the use of a 1/4 tank of fuel not stating down to a 1/4 tank. Maybe I missed it, if it’s down to a 1/4 tank I agree with you, I never let mine get that low. I did that a few times on a bike and burnt up the fuel pump from it over heating. Seems odd to hear the gas cools the pump but that’s what they claimed ruined my fuel pump. Not even considering the sediment issues.
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Ron, did I miss it, I thought he stated the use of a 1/4 tank of fuel not stating down to a 1/4 tank. Maybe I missed it, if it’s down to a 1/4 tank I agree with you, I never let mine get that low. I did that a few times on a bike and burnt up the fuel pump from it over heating. Seems odd to hear the gas cools the pump but that’s what they claimed ruined my fuel pump. Not even considering the sediment issues.
Its not a myth, the pump DOES rely on cooling by the gasoline. Down here, its like a poor mans curse...ya cant afford to keep gas in the tank, so the pump goes out earlier. >(
No worries about sediment... every pump I have ever replaced sucks off the bottom of the tank all the time. There is a filter on most that is nicknamed 'the sock' that keeps the sediment out of the pump. This lets the fuel filter go to a finer mesh without clogging up so soon. There is a lot of surface area on the sock, and they generally last the life of the pump...because when the sock gets clogged, the pump overheats and goes bad.
Fuel pump for my 2007 shown below - sock is the white thins on the bottom.
(https://www.techchoiceparts.com/Content/parts/original/123328_o.jpg)
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Just the K&N 77-2570KTK, otherwise all oem. The difference is hard to believe. We had a stiff crosswind all the way to Moab too.
For anyone familiar with the route from Vegas to Moab here’s some calculations from my gas receipts:
Hurricane UT to Moab UT 352 miles / 30.28 gal. = 11.624 mpg
Moab UT - Richfield UT 165 mi / 14.3 gal. = 11.538 mpg
Currently in Vegas , only 289 mi since topping off in Richfield. Will fill up again before leaving Nevada and update mpg for the last climb through 7700 ft driving west out of Utah.
Doing 67mph uphill in 3rd at 3200 rpm the scan gauge was showing 6.8 mpg. Before the transmission would typically downshift to 3rd at 2850 then to 2nd and struggle to hold 60mph at 3800 on steep grades. The outside temp was around 75. I was watching the water and transmission temps closely on the scangauge , both only increased 10 degrees on the long climbs.
I am going to do the opposite direction trip starting tommorow. My 2551 is an E450 with a higher numerical rear end ratio than the E350.
I already have a K&N filter but just the filter, not the intake setup.
With that, with the cc set at 68 and no serious head or tailwind... I average right about 10mpg.
I can get exact numbers for this trip.
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Volk, I’ve also learned not all fuel systems have a filter. The 1800 wing I had there is no fuel filter of any kind. Just a screen at the pump. I always thought it odd but there are many high mileage units out there with no issue. Lends one to buy their gas at stations with high fuel turn over.
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Volk, I’ve also learned not all fuel systems have a filter. The 1800 wing I had there is no fuel filter of any kind. Just a screen at the pump. I always thought it odd but there are many high mileage units out there with no issue. Lends one to buy their gas at stations with high fuel turn over.
1800 wing = Honda Goldwing 1800? (if so, nice ride!!) Yes, thinking on it, most of the motorcycles I worked on only had a screen on the fuel petcock. Until the tank started to rust and the owner adds a filter to catch sediment. :lol Been there...
NEVER buy Premium grade at a low turnover station... we learned that with a corvette in Vermont... (exactly) Good point there also.
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Volk, many bikes over the years, the 2002- 1800 wing was a nice ride but I only put 90,000 then sold it. Next guy now has over 300,000 on it now as a trike. Last ride a victory cross country I stopped at 190,000 miles in 5 years. I quit riding due to all the distracted drivers out here. If I lived in a less populated state I’d probably kept going. Drunk drivers are now and then, text and cell use drivers is wide spread in all ages.
Sorry off topic
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The 311 mile drive from Richfield UT to Vegas was down to 10.23 mpg. Probably due to a combination of warmer temps necessitating running the air conditioning and a stiff headwind/ crosswind ?? So many variables , but the overall improvements are noticeable and measurable.
Regarding a high flow filter element vs. the K&N kit, the fresh air intake elbow on the Ford airbox is maybe 2.5" dia. The K&N kit re-uses it (probably to mix cold air from the grille area?) but the top and front of the K&N airbox are open (uses weathstrip to make the hood part of the airbox) to eliminate the restriction. On the engine side it uses a metal tube to replace the baffle. The result is increased noise when accelerating from a stop and driving in town. But on the highway it's only noticeable when climbing in a lower gear. IMHO the subtle change in pitch as the rpm' s increase is welcomed feedback for the driver because if you stay in the throttle the V10 just keeps revving and gaining speed . Now it just downshifts one gear, pulls like a locomotive and sings sweetly at 3220 instead of downshifting twice and screaming uphill at 3850.
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1st part of my trip, Grand Junction (31 miles from the Utah border and on I-70) to Richfield Utah. Odometer says 228 miles, took 30.6 gallons. Lousy at 7.4mpg. No a/c, speed by GPS was 68 and a cool, rainy day. Headwinds much of the way. A lot of up&down hills. Started at 4600' at home, highest point was 7900 feet and then down to 5400' in Richfield.
The K&N has been on my PC since April 2015. A month and a few thousand miles after I bought the PC.
PC is a 2015 2551 with a 4.59 rear end.
I have had many instances of 10mpg with this vehicle, so I am going to chaulk this on up to the steep grades (although the downhills were the same steep grade) and the headwinds.
Stopped for the night in Cedar City Utah.
Oh, forgot... Prior to the fill up, right before I left, I still had 15 gallons of "winter blend" in the tank from the beginning of March and did not add stabil to it. So that 15 gallons was 2 months old. Doubt that made a difference.,but who knows.
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Hi Don and Patti
Beware of the butterflies! They came up from Mexico through California 3 weeks ago and were swarming across southeastern Utah last week. What a mess!! Fortunately our 2350 got the Red Rocks spa treatment while we enjoyed the pool at the excellent Oasis rv resort in Vegas .
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Hi Don and Patti
Beware of the butterflies! They came up from Mexico through California 3 weeks ago and were swarming across southeastern Utah last week. What a mess!! Fortunately our 2350 got the Red Rocks spa treatment while we enjoyed the pool at the excellent Oasis rv resort in Vegas .
Damn! Never thought of butterflies being a hazard. We are in one of the worst 'love bug' seasons here. If you dont know what they are, you are lucky.
(https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/galveston/beneficials_images/1c_archives/beneficial-37B-%20GCMGA4222_love_bug.jpg)
My pickup was MUCH worse. The windshield was so covered, I was hunting for a clear spot to peek through. (Like the UPS truck below) And you DO NOT turn on the wipers, even with washers. You WILL be blind, and pulling over. There was ~15 cars on i95 that had to do an emergency stop after we hit a swarm monday. I saw them turn on the wipers, so I was ready for their rapid slowing. When i got to my exit, I scraped a 'porthole' with a credit card to get home easier.
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/montage/3c/presto/2019/05/07/PTCN/d16d545f-8c82-4c56-9ae8-21c3ac12c475-59731999_10157146114704184_7620898805046575104_n.jpg;/presto/2019/05/07/PTCN/ecf352ca-7c94-4e17-8a30-1a3adde2acda-59668776_10205662542798194_8122823359160385536_n.jpg;/presto/2019/05/07/PTCN/99fa6e14-3888-4903-9749-7aec1d57e7d5-60061405_10219766518500465_5067304846495842304_o.jpg?width=640&padding=6&bg-color=ffffff)
Just googled 'butterflies on windshield' and it looks like SSDD with them. At least the debris is colorful. roflol
***************************** And back to our topic in progress. (exactly) ****************************************
I get ~10mpg with mine solo, and ~8.5 towing the trailer last time. I do drive fast, however, with the CC set to 75, going to 80 to make a pass. I am gonna try setting it at 65 this next trip (~250 miles each way) and see what that nets me. Give me a baseline for when I put the K&N in.
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Hi Don and Patti
Beware of the butterflies! They came up from Mexico through California 3 weeks ago and were swarming across southeastern Utah last week. What a mess!! Fortunately our 2350 got the Red Rocks spa treatment while we enjoyed the pool at the excellent Oasis rv resort in Vegas .
Ran into the butterflies between Mojave and Bakersfield today. Messy little guys.
Filled my 2551 in Vegas. From Richfield to Vegas on the odometer is 284 miles, tank took 28.5 gallons. 10mpg.
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Watched the last Dodge Demon being auctioned off the other day. Interesting that it appears they install what appears to be a k&n or equivalent at the factory.
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Has anyone tried this for HP and Handling?
https://www.facebook.com/home.php
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Has anyone tried this for HP and Handling?
https://www.facebook.com/home.php
I find it slows my performance at work and home. (exactly) But I just....cant.....stop....looking...... roflol
(Link is incorrect, I am thinking... it goes to FaceBook's landing page. )
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And finally, Vegas to Visilia, 306 miles, 32.2 gallons. 9.5 mpg.
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I don’t have the intake you have. I’m traveling pulling a toad, loaded full tank of water propane etc. the toad only weighs 1860 pounds. All in I weighed just over 16,000 lbs. I left la quinta ca, home elevation 50 ft. I’m now in silver city NM. Been driving 65mph and lowest mpg has been 9 and best was 10.4. So I’m not sure how much the intake kit helps. There are so many variables, weight, winds, driving habits, cruise control use etc. So I’m not sure how a person can get a accurate read.
I’ve added the 5 star which I really like how it changes the shift patterns. Some say it increases mileage and mine has gone up but is it directly due to the 5 star or I could it be related to any changes in my driving habits? I won’t pretend to know. The 5 star was worth every penny just for the transmission shifting alone. Without it I’d probably be looking at selling.