Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarz272000 on December 03, 2018, 01:21:29 pm
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Trying to decide on a four wheel down vehicle. Please share any experience with the vehicles below.
Newer GM pickups like the Colorado
2018 or 2019 GMC Arcadia
Ron
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Trying to decide on a four wheel down vehicle. Please share any experience with the vehicles below.
Newer GM pickups like the Colorado
2018 or 2019 GMC Arcadia
Ron
Entering 'toad' in the search box may provide you with some answers. Entering Colorado or Arcadia was not very helpful. The subject of towed 'Toad' vehicles has come up before. :-D
And those new Colorado's are HUGE! We have one in our employee lot, parks next to a ~2009 chevy silverado 1500. Same size. :beg
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Here are your answers: http://www.motorhome.com/download-dinghy-guides/
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Trying to decide on a four wheel down vehicle. Please share any experience with the vehicles below.
Newer GM pickups like the Colorado
2018 or 2019 GMC Arcadia
Ron
Not one that you listed, but I have been towing a 2012 GMC Terrain for years and love it. Hooks up in minutes and tows great behind my PC.
Cheers :)(:
Barry T
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Not too happy about replacing the wife's 2017 AWD Ford Escape (a great car but not flat towable) with a 2019 AWD Buick Envision so we can flat tow behind our new 2018 4x4 PC 2252. Presently awaiting the tow bar manufacturers to design and produce 2019 baseplates for the new car. The 2018 Buick baseplates do not fit the 2019 design.
We will provide an update when we get the install completed in the next month or two. - Dick
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Dick
I am in the same boat. I have 2014 escape. Still considering a dolly for it but for down also an option. If we do buy another vehicle we want it to be multipurpose...be able to haul bikes and kayaks and people...thus Arcadia or smaller pickup.
Ron
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Ron - We think alike. The Envision now has a roof rack for the 16' carbon fiber canoe and with the back seat down 2 or 3 bikes and all the cycling gear fit fine. I competitively race bikes (which are too expensive and fragile to carry outside the vehicles) so when my wife Chris does not accompany me, I convert her bunk to carry the bikes and will leave the toad home. We looked at the Acadia as well but thought when loaded it was too close to the 5000 lb. weight limit.
Our first big trip will be this June when we will be in Albuquerque and Santa Fe, NM for the National Senior Games. We will be gone for a month and plan to spend time at the Grand Canyon and Sedona AZ. This will also give me time to get acclimated to the elevation prior to racing. Since we live at 652 ft. above sea level and the course outside of Santa Fe is at 7500 ft., two weeks should be enough time to adjust. More to follow. - Dick
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I don't look forward to the day retiring our 2006 Jeep Liberty 4x4. Though I have my reasons to dislike it, it has met our RV travel and Irene's at-home needs. We'll keep it for as long as is reasonable. It recently turned 80,000 miles. Given it's care and condition, I hope replacing it is 10 years away. It's just a year older than our PC but at a much faster pace to retirement.
It seems brand new towable 4x4 vehicles are quite pricey, especially after being setup properly for towing. The way it's heading, when we replace our Liberty, a new tow vehicle will cost more than our PC did in 2007.
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Ron, I thought you were a car guy. Why not shop for a decent used jeep now and use the restoration as a home project?
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Ron, I thought you were a car guy. Why not shop for a decent used jeep now and use the restoration as a home project?
Ha, ha, You are right in that I am a car guy which is why I hope to keep our Liberty road-worthy and tow-worthy for 22 years and 160,000 miles. If it goes better than expected, then the time & miles would be extended.
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We have a 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk. This model comes with the two speed transfer case (Low-High range) and lockable rear differential. The best part for towing is that there is a small push button on the console that you push with a pen or small pointy thing and the transfer case goes to neutral. I have not have any problems with "death wobble", use a RVI brake that plugs into the center console. For tow lights , I use a Towmaster light bar which is wireless and power it with a small jump start/compressor (Walmarts for $50). Jump start battery will power the lights for a week of driving if you shut them off a night. I have not looked but there should be some used ones coming up for sale.
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Not too happy about replacing the wife's 2017 AWD Ford Escape (a great car but not flat towable) with a 2019 AWD Buick Envision so we can flat tow behind our new 2018 4x4 PC 2252. Presently awaiting the tow bar manufacturers to design and produce 2019 baseplates for the new car. The 2018 Buick baseplates do not fit the 2019 design.
We will provide an update when we get the install completed in the next month or two. - Dick
Dick
Did you get your Envision base plate? We are looking at CRV or Envision.
Ron
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Just today we bought a 2014 Honda CR-V. Looks and drives like new, even though it has 60,000 miles on it. Paid $16,200. Next is to have base plate installed.
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Here are your answers: http://www.motorhome.com/download-dinghy-guides/
This tow guide is the key. I'd only add that it is wise to chose the smallest, lightest vehicle that will do the job you need it to do when you get to your destinations. The E450 has a lot of power, but you will still "feel" the Toad back there.
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I'd only add that it is wise to chose the smallest, lightest vehicle that will do the job you need it to do when you get to your destinations. The E450 has a lot of power, but you will still "feel" the Toad back there.
I agree on choosing the smallest, lightest BUT disagree on feeling the toad. I'm sure it might be noticeable climbing steep grades in the Rockies but otherwise we don't know she's back there. With car and cargo, we are probably at that 5k mark. I've read you can upgrade to a 10k hitch receiver so 5k is limit of the hitch, not the E450.
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We picked up a new 2018 Kia Soul base with manual transmission for $13,700. It only weighs 2800 lbs,comes with an excellent warranty and tows and drives like a dream. Rigged it out with a Blue Ox Ascent tow bar, patriot 2 brake system and Road Master tow defender. Very easy to set up for towing: hook up the tow bar, etc., install the brake system, transmission in neutral, key on and then off (leave the key in the ignition and steering wheel stays unlocked), emergency brake off, and you are ready to roll. We added Yakima roof bicycle racks so we can take bikes without interfering with the hatchback. As a side note - my wife loves to take the Kia to our local car wash and watch the young employees gaze in horror at the STICK SHIFT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sarz27200 - Sorry for the late reply but I don't read the forum every day. It turned out that the 2018 baseplate for the Buick Envision really does work on the 2019 model, the manufacturers had to first get their hands on a 2019 model and that is why it took so long to verify that fact. We decided on the Blue Ox Acent tow bar, a dual fuse bypass switch, a diode tail light kit and the Patriot 2 brake system. I installed everything myself over a two day wintery weekend and took my sweet time in our heated shop. The manual says it should take 4-5 hours for the base plate installation and a couple more for the tail light kit. I have the tools and skills so once I got by the realization that I would be tearing the front end off of my wife's perfectly useable vehicle, I found it to be an easy and even enjoyable process. A vehicle lift would have certainly speeded up the process. Blue Ox has written great installation instructions and YouTube always provides some additional perspective. I took a few pictures and will post when I get the time to figure how to do that.
Once we take the coach out of winter storage, maybe in a month, I will hook it up and give it a road test and report back. One last item, I also purchased Rock Tamer mud flaps that install on the 2" receiver tube, hopefully they will minimize the stone damage on the front of our toad. - Dick
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Here are the before, during and after pictures of the baseplate installation. - Dick
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Just getting up to speed on posting pictures, how about this, Sorry for any stiff necks.
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Dick
Thanks for the update and pictures. Looks fantastic! When do you want to turn over the keys to us? LOL
There are two entrys on irv2.com. for the envision with sine good info.
Can't wait to hear about the road test.
Ron
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RVCamping, Your pictures bring back memories of the day when I installed a tow bar bracket on the 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder we used to tow.
2o2
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2012 Fiat stick shift behind a 2005 2350.. Hook it up to tow bar, put in neutral, brake down and go.. Do not even have to mess around with ignition set up.. Perfect for two people. fun car.
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If the car is light enough (under 2000 pounds) theoretically you are not required to have a secondary braking system.
Our first tow vehicle was a 2100 pound, 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder. I did not install secondary braking. I was surprised how strongly that little car pushed against the motor home when braking.
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We have an SMI Breaking system but seldom turn it on. We'll be using it in the Rocky Mountains but haven't needed it until now. We've had some steep spots here and there and some extended downhill runs and we can't tell the car is back there. We do have tow-haul mode engaged at all times as Kermit instructed.
We drive a 2552 towing a fully loaded Subaru Forester. I suspect the car is pushing the 5,000 pound limit for the tow receiver.
Ron, it seems odd that little car affects your rig so much. I know the E-350 is lighter and your 2350 is smaller but that car is less than half the weight of ours.
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Ron, it seems odd that little car affects your rig so much. I know the E-350 is lighter and your 2350 is smaller but that car is less than half the weight of ours.
Our 2007 E350 brakes are not as effective as your current-day E450 brakes in two ways.
1) The 2007 E350 and older chassis has a hydraulic brake system exactly like a typical vehicle has. I believe all E450s (and maybe E350s 2008 and newer) have an additional belt-driven hydraulic pump to further assist the braking system, similar looking to that of the power steering system.
2) Also starting in 2008, the disk brake surface area is slightly increased.
Between the two, it's likely the reason for your improved braking performance.
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Tswhitewater, I considered the Kia Soul but only for a second. Having owned a couple sports cars and one truck with a standard transmission I swore no more. Having sat in stop and go traffic for a few hours more than once and I learned to hate a standard tranny.
I know a couple people with the Kia Soul that use them as commuters (auto trans) and they have been very dependable. Hyundai/kia make some very good vehicles.
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Ron, it seems odd that little car affects your rig so much. I know the E-350 is lighter and your 2350 is smaller but that car is less than half the weight of ours.
Our 2007 E350 brakes are not as effective as your current-day E450 brakes in two ways.
1) The 2007 E350 and older chassis has a hydraulic brake system exactly like a typical vehicle has. I believe all E450s (and maybe E350s 2008 and newer) have an additional belt-driven hydraulic pump to further assist the braking system, similar looking to that of the power steering system.
2) Also starting in 2008, the disk brake surface area is slightly increased.
Between the two, it's likely the reason for your improved braking performance.
Ron,
What hydraulic assist? My 2014 e450 cutaway (on which my 2015 2551 is built) has no hydraulic assist. It has a standard vacuum "power brake" same as my 2000 E-350 cutaway had.
My 2551 has ABS, but that only stops the wheels from locking...and doesn't provide any assistance to normal braking.
Where did you get your information on 2008 and up cutaway?
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Maybe I was wrong in that it had it's own belt driven system. It appears the power steering hydraulic system supports it. My 2007 E350 does not have it. The 2007 E450 does. You have me wondering if Ford got rid of it in later years. It appears the devise replaces the big round vacuum assist power brake booster we are all familiar with.
To you with E450s, do you have the big round vacuum power brake booster behind your master cylinder? Or do you have something that resembles this?
(http://www.badgertrek.com/sportsmobile/ReWork/Hydroboost%20and%20Master.jpg)
For comparison, here is an E350 vacuum assist power brake booster that we are all familiar with.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/geberhard/jeep%20projects/Break%20Master%20upgrade/IMGP0974.jpg)
(https://storage.googleapis.com/apk18/ApkImages/a1/A1_5474419_Lef.jpg)
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Maybe I was wrong in that it had it's own belt driven system. It appears the power steering hydraulic system supports it. They call it Hydroboost. My 2007 E350 does not have it. The 2007 E450 does. Maybe Ford got rid of it when they revamped the chassis in 2008.
Here is a quote I just found.
"Hydro-boost power assist was introduced in 1973 by Bendix as an alternative to the vacuum booster. The hydro-boost uses the hydraulic pressure from the power steering system to provide the driver assist in applying the brakes. ... The vehicle requires more assist than is available from a vacuum booster. Mar 1, 2005"
It appears the devise replaces the big round vacuum booster we are all familiar with. To you with E450s, do you have the big round thing (vacuum power brake booster) behind your master cylinder?
I believe I do, that's my memory. Ford uses hydro boost on its diesel powered heavy chassis line, but according to what I read, ( www.fiverhope.com/goods-63397-Hydro-booster-8C2Z2005A-527376-for-FORD-E-350E-450-2008-2013.html) but not the v-10 gas engine.
And yes, hydro boost comes off the power steering pump (which is belt driven), not a separate pump.
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It would have been nice to have that hydro boost system on our 2007 E350. Our vacuum assist works fine, but not so well when we were towing the Toyota MR2 without secondary braking. When it comes to brakes, you can't have enough to cover "every" condition.
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It would have been nice to have that hydro boost system on our 2007 E350. Our vacuum assist works fine, but not so well when we were towing the Toyota MR2 without secondary braking. When it comes to brakes, you can't have enough to cover "every" condition.
Ron,
And... I was wrong. Flat out wrong. I was where I store my PC (built on a 2014 E450 cutaway) , looked under the hood. It DOES have hydroboost (via power steering pump) power brakes, not vacuum assist.
I could have sworn it was vacuum assist.. But I was wrong.
Don
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If the car is light enough (under 2000 pounds) theoretically you are not required to have a secondary braking system.
theoretically maybe.... but legally....
(http://www.readybrake.com/uploads/3/9/4/0/39400577/1418764558.png)
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Toad's maiden voyage is complete. Everything works as planned and we hardly know its there, although I am sure we will feel it on our trip through the rookies this June. I think that having the car back there actually reduces the imposed fishtail affect of a passing 18 wheeler.
A drop hitch was not needed even though our 2552 is four wheel drive and sits much higher than the standard rear wheel drive. The tow bar is only 3/4" out of level, well within spec. The Rock Tamers go on like a dream, are easily removed and look like they will provide good protection for the front of our Envision.
We use two rear cameras, one pointed down at the hitch and toad the other aimed farther back to look at traffic. Two viewing screens as well, one on Pioneer radio and the other on our Garmin GPS. Both give us the ability to closely monitor how things are going back there.
Added a few pictures, hooked up and not. - Dick and Chris