Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: rvrunner on August 12, 2018, 09:39:11 pm
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We've heard about new models from PC, some Transit chassis models, maybe some Chevy models with diesel, class c's. What would you like to see? What features and changes? I'd like larger fresh water and holding tanks.
Lynn
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I would like to see a walk-around rear double/queen bedroom with no slide-out back there like RV companies used to make years ago. I would like to see that offered in a 27-28 foot length.
Also I would like to see a high-stance rear double/queen bed against the back wall placed sideways in a 25-27 foot length. Have a pass-thru rear outdoor storage compartment under the rear half of the bed, and a captain bed drawer and/or cabinet arrangement under the front half. Again, not requiring a slide-out to achieve it. A slide-out rear of the rear axle is horrid for weight distribution.
I would also like to see a seamless class-C cab-over bed as an option to the current-day B+ cap, keeping everything else identical. Just interchange caps. The "C" version should NOT cut the van's roof to reintroduce roll-over protection for driver and passenger. Bump-up the cab-over ceiling but not exceeding the height of the a/c unit. A sloping transition from the bump-up to the main roof would have a storage area for the people sleeping in that upper bunk.
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Was at the factory last Thursday and Friday. Didn't get to see the new Transit 2100, because it was staged over at the Elkhart RV show which got postponed until next weekend due to rain/mud. As I understand, it's not yet a production model--but a prototype that may be placed in production depending on the reception it receives. I did look at the new 2351D which is being built for the Hershey show in September. Places the corner bed on a second slide-out to the passenger side. Also incorporates the Truma Combi unit that combines the furnace and water heater into one unit. That was essential because the furnace had to move from beneath the corner bed to accommodate the new slide. The Truma Combis have been in use for years in Europe due to more focus on "green" issues, and are now being used in some other US units (some Winnebago models for one). Speculation is that the new 2351D could become their second most popular model (behind 2552).
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Was at the factory last Thursday and Friday. Didn't get to see the new Transit 2100, because it was staged over at the Elkhart RV show which got postponed until next weekend due to rain/mud. As I understand, it's not yet a production model--but a prototype that may be placed in production depending on the reception it receives. I did look at the new 2351D which is being built for the Hershey show in September. Places the corner bed on a second slide-out to the passenger side. Also incorporates the Truma Combi unit that combines the furnace and water heater into one unit. That was essential because the furnace had to move from beneath the corner bed to accommodate the new slide. The Truma Combis have been in use for years in Europe due to more focus on "green" issues, and are now being used in some other US units (some Winnebago models for one). Speculation is that the new 2351D could become their second most popular model (behind 2552).
I follow several Tiffin Facebook pages. Several Tiffin Wayfarer owners are complaining about the Truma water heater. It seems the only way to get it to work is set the temperature to a tolerable temperature and leave the cold water off. When adding cold water to the mix, you get a cold shower.
Barry T
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Don't really have any personal background with the Combi. After seeing it at Phoenix I researched it a little on the net, and found mainly positive reviews. I did talk with the engineer at Phoenix that designed the new slide in the 2351. They had researched available units and felt that the Combi was about the most proven thing out there. Evidently one of the positive attributes is much quieter operation for anyone sleeping, both because the unit is quieter to begin with and also because they move the unit from under the bed to under the kitchen cabinet. He had good things to say about the Combi company reps; evidently they came to Elkhart and worked with him to line out the proper installation. They are supposed to be back this week to fire it off and do the initial testing.
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I might have to go check them out at the California RV show in October 2o2
My early 2350-S has a huge storage compartment under the bed because the furnace and converter are under the refrigerator, so it will be interesting to see what they did with the new 2351-S.
The Transit 2100 with a diesel engine could be a home run if they found some weight carrying capacity and price it like the current E350 model, in between the class B Winnebago Paseo and the larger B+ View Profile / Navion IQ. Then follow with a 2nd floorplan that's just a carbon copy of the old Winnebago Rialta HD model, minus the funky telescoping shower enclosure and tiny holding tanks. Give it a catchy name instead of a model number and reshape the compact rv market :)(:
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We had 3 Rialta’s and loved them. Would have bought a new one if they still made them. Would love to see a similar floor plan - with slide and decent bathroom shower.
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Was at the factory last Thursday and Friday. Didn't get to see the new Transit 2100, because it was staged over at the Elkhart RV show which got postponed until next weekend due to rain/mud. As I understand, it's not yet a production model--but a prototype that may be placed in production depending on the reception it receives. I did look at the new 2351D which is being built for the Hershey show in September. Places the corner bed on a second slide-out to the passenger side. Also incorporates the Truma Combi unit that combines the furnace and water heater into one unit. That was essential because the furnace had to move from beneath the corner bed to accommodate the new slide. The Truma Combis have been in use for years in Europe due to more focus on "green" issues, and are now being used in some other US units (some Winnebago models for one). Speculation is that the new 2351D could become their second most popular model (behind 2552).
Curious if the new proposed 2351D rear bed slide out puts the head board faced out into the slide with a walk around, or just uses same positioning and slides out similar
to some of the Coach House models?
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Hutch, the new 2351D puts the headboard faced out into the slide---the intent is to make the bed as much "walk around" as possible. Since the one currently being built is the very first unit, they expect to make some refinements on future builds. For instance, the slide cutout on this unit is so high, that with the slide topper there will be no room above it to mount the awning. The reason is that the engineer wanted plenty of space above the bed to be absolutely sure that there was no claustrophobic effect for anyone laying in bed with their head toward the outside of the slide. Also, the "walk around" on this first unit is fairly short, and only goes in a couple of feet from the foot of the bed before it hits a raised area. I understand they want to expand that more on future builds to maximize the walkway. They also expect to lower the slide cut-out in future to accommodate the full-length awning. I'm sure there will be some additional refinements as well, based on their experience with this first unit. Even so, the 2351D is not a prototype--it's an available model. I understand that they expect to have it added to the listings over the next few weeks.
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I wonder who is doing the design work on these new models? I assume Kermit is gone? The owners must have hired design engineers? The factory is rather small. When PC starts building these new models, will they be able to do it all in there current location? I've heard there are no buildings available in Elkhart for expansion at this time. I wonder if there will be PC dealers.
Lynn ( I've bought one PC and now act like I'm the dominant share holder of the company)
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Mikeh---thanks for info. Sounds ambitious on PC's part. Wonder if they will put it on a E450 as standard with the extra weight.
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Lynn, the only new models that I have personal knowledge of are the 2100 Transit, and the 2351D. I didn't even see the 2100, since it was staged over at the Elkhart RV show that got shut down because of weather. I understand, however that it was built on the regular Phoenix manufacturing line, and I know that the 2351D is being built on the regular line--just folded in with all the other regular models. I talked quite a while with the engineer that is building the new slide on the 2351D; I believe he said he had been at Phoenix most of a year. I didn't ask if he also did the new 2100 Transit, but I assume he may have. I don't know the current status of Kermit. There is still a mailbox labeled with his name along with all the other Phoenix employees, but I don't know if he is active.
Hutch, all of the Phoenix Ford models larger than the 2100 are now being built on the 450 chassis as standard. That includes the 2351D, the regular 2351, and even the 2350. They aren't using E350s on any of those models.
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We had 3 Rialta’s and loved them. Would have bought a new one if they still made them. Would love to see a similar floor plan - with slide and decent bathroom shower.
Hi Janey. Which floor plans (s) did you own? Mine was the rare FD Standard model which had a corner bed with a real full size residential type matress. The swiveling front seats with flip down table and barrel chair configuration was perfect for two. At night we could extend the bathroom slide-in to separate the bedroom from the front living room area if either of us wanted to turn in early, as with our 2350 2o2.
The dresser with drawers next to the bed and tall corner wardrobe closet were great too. But the HD model , a hybrid of the FD and QD models that was introduced last, turned out to be the best seller
(http://www.rialtainfo.com/model_info/images/floorplans.gif)
The GVWR for the Transit is even less than the Sprinter, but having an existing wide body design to work with allows Phoenix USA to build a right-sized Transit without the need for a heavy and expensive slide out or a huge investment in an all-new platform. Just paint it a solid metallic color and don't call it a 2100 !!
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My early 2350-S has a huge storage compartment under the bed because the furnace and converter are under the refrigerator, so it will be interesting to see what they did with the new 2351-S.
Actually the furnace was under the fridge and the inverter under the closet. That change came along when the fridge was included inside the slide out in 2010. That was a set-back decision with regards to outdoor storage for model 2350.
If I were to order a new PC 2350 today, I would ask them to make some of it like our old 2007, that being one. Even though it's not ideal for weight distribution & handling, I also like our fresh water tank in back to make our outdoor storage so big. I think Irene and I could painfully fit inside it together and close the door.
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Hey Ron, when we go to the Pomona show to see 2351S I will use your line about our spaciously convenient 2350 storage compartment :-D
All the 03-04's PC's also had 3 large cabinets above the cab instead of a cutout roof, one in the center with a roll-up door for a CRT tv. I have seen pictures of a similar Carri-Go with an actual bed in place of the overhead cabinets! I put 2 XL stacked storage drawers in the center cabinet and a 21" tv on the passenger side transition wall with a tilt and swivel under-cabinet mount for watching from the sofa.
I know for sure that Phoenix would get at least 2 NO votes if they did a poll about putting a slide-out in the production model Transit 2100.
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We started with a ‘95 QD. loved that one the most. 19 feet and the tiniest 5 cylinder engine that was a real workhorse. Great in the snow. Then an ‘05 QD that was attacked and totaled by a little red car hit and run. The next one was an ‘05 QD which was really nice. Kept that til we got our ‘14 PC. Sure do like it a lot!
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I saw the Transit 2100 when I picked my PC up in April, it was not finished. I remember talking to Earl several years ago and he talked about how they were building a 2100 on the Transit so it's been a long project. I'm sure the new owners had idea's and people in mind to help with new designs. New floor plans shouldn't over load the factory unless they sell like hot cakes.
I looked at Lazy Daze before I bought a PC, you have to wait a year to get one. I said can't you hire more workers to speed up production, they said yes we could but we'd lose our quality.
Lynn
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I have seen pictures of a similar Carri-Go with an actual bed
Years ago, I found an early PC for sale on the web with a bed in the B+ cap. I saved the picture. I think with refinement, it could be an attractive option. Like you had mentioned, the roof of the Ford cab was not cut of which I liked for roll-over protection. Not only as an extra bed for a shorter person like a grand child for example, this would provide a lot of open bulk storage for a person who needs it badly. Or like your old CRT TV set had with deep cabinets. With Phoenix's production flexibility, I would imagine they can do this upon request today.
I wonder if the upper cab bed could accommodate a 2nd person if Phoenix creatively fabricated a fold-out bed extension out into the room. With the seat belted dinette for 4 and a bolt-down chair with seat belt on the side as shown, you also have seating capacity for movement and dining. That would attract young families.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/561/18403520006_0af63d114e_z.jpg)
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The GVWR for the Transit is even less than the Sprinter, but having an existing wide body design to work with allows Phoenix USA to build a right-sized Transit without the need for a heavy and expensive slide out or a huge investment in an all-new platform. Just paint it a solid metallic color and don't call it a 2100 !!
The current OCC on the Winnebago Fuse on the Transit chassis is at 1200 pounds +/-. It started at 1500 pounds two years ago, but as designs and options changed
it was reduced. Recently with the added compressor fridge and the 200 amp solar system. The two models both have slides. The LTV Wonder is down to around 900 pounds OCC, no slide. Its on the 176" WB and a foot longer then the Fuse.
Be neat to see PC try one with the 2551 floor plan which the Fuse 23A has mirrored. Might be just to heavy?
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We started with a ‘95 QD. loved that one the most. 19 feet and the tiniest 5 cylinder engine that was a real workhorse. Great in the snow. Then an ‘05 QD that was attacked and totaled by a little red car hit and run. The next one was an ‘05 QD which was really nice. Kept that til we got our ‘14 PC. Sure do like it a lot!
Before stumbling on our first PC sighting at a local RV show in 2/2007, I had the Rialta FD on our list of considerations. I really wanted an 03-05 for the extra engine power, but the used prices on them in late 2006 were sky high. I was looking at at bartered-down prices between $53k and $58k. Then weeks later, determined to get a used PC-2350, I looked nation-wide but had no luck. We ended buying our new 2007 ordered exactly the way we wanted for just over $67k. We ended up spending more than we had originally planned, but got just the right rig for us, hopefully to outlast our ability to safely drive it.
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Ron - count your blessings that you bought a Phoenix Cruiser instead !!
The Volkswagen Eurovan transaxle was never designed to handle the weight of a motorhome plus the increased horsepower of the VR6, so transmission failure is commonplace , even more so with the rev-happy 24 valve version.
The Winnebago H body was an outstanding design that was easy to drive, could park in a driveway, got great mpg for it's era, but unfortunately was built on absolutely terrible Renault and Volkswagen mechanicals.
If anyone wants to build a contemporary version on a wide body Transit diesel platform just take the HD floorplan, move the wardrobe closet to aft of the coach entry stairwell to make space for a decent sized dry bathroom and shower stall aft of the galley, and if necessary keep the small under-stove refrigerator design. And add a pull-out 2nd bed above the cab as Ron suggested.
(http://www.rialtainfo.com/model_info/images/floorplans.gif)
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CalCruiser,
I agree with you on the decision not to buy a Rialta. Since getting our PC in 2007, I have read many negative reviews on the VW chassis deficiencies. The Rialta was a nice rig in concept, but not so much in reality. And like you say, Winnebago could have made a few floorplan adjustments for the better. The works-in-a-drawer concept for the airplane-style bathroom was a bit much.
It would be very unfair to compare our 2007-2350 with any Rialta model. I am so glad to have made the right decision.
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I think Irene and I could painfully fit inside it together and close the door.
;) ;) ;)
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Are there floorplans for the new models? And does anyone know what they are taking to show at the Hershey RV show? PC is one of the two manufacturers I'm going to see.
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When visiting Phoenix in Elkhart on August 9/10, I was told that the new 2351D with the bed on a slide to the side that was under construction was being built for the Hershey show. I don't know (didn't ask) what other models they might be taking. It seem logical that the second new model--the 2100 on a Transit chassis--that debuted at the Elkhart RV show this weekend, might also be going to Hershey. I don't think they have published floorplans yet; the Transit 2100 was called a "prototype", but I was told that the new 2351D would be added to the order list over the next few weeks.
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Since my quest for a Phoenix Cruiser started, I have seen, heard, and experience nothing but positive. Even though I am a newbie to Phoenix Cruiser, I do have one comment...I would like to see Phoenix USA, aka The Mother Ship, aka HQ, provide a monthly update on the goings-on "up there". This would eliminate conjecture and rumors (he said/she said). My observation is that Phoenix Cruiser owners are, for the most part, experienced RVers who, at least, understand motorhome systems and the basics of RVing. I venture to say that a monthly update would be welcome by everyone on this list.
Cheers :)(:
Barry T
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I know this site is setup primarily for the benefit of owners and prospective buyers of new and used Phoenix Cruisers to share ideas and non commercial information. I expect it also provides Phoenix with a general feel as to how their products are being received.
I would also welcome a separate sub forum for Phoenix to provide any relevant information that they would care to share. This could include things such as new models coming out, changes to existing models, frequently asked questions from owners and prospective buyers along with company response, changes coming out from component suppliers, general news about the RV industry, etc. Facts are always better than rumors that all too often spread on the internet. This could be done on a regular basis (preferred) or as warranted.
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When visiting Phoenix in Elkhart on August 9/10, I was told that the new 2351D with the bed on a slide to the side that was under construction was being built for the Hershey show.
I am primarily interested in Newmar's Bay Stars as my "retirement home" but the 2351 has always interested me, especially with the 4x4 option. I really hope I get to see one at Hershey.
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I am primarily interested in Newmar's Bay Stars as my "retirement home" but the 2351 has always interested me, especially with the 4x4 option. I really hope I get to see one at Hershey.
We spent a month is a Bay Star sport 2903, which is the same as the 3008 for 2018. Very well constructed, fit and finish was excellent. It was huge for us, more room
then we needed for a month. Probably okay if living in for long term. The HWH powered full wall slide made us a little nervous, it was a little creaky on twisting mountain
roads. Driveability was typical of larger Class A's. Not as good as the more aerodynamic C's like PC.
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I am primarily interested in Newmar's Bay Stars as my "retirement home" but the 2351 has always interested me, especially with the 4x4 option. I really hope I get to see one at Hershey.
We spent a month is a Bay Star sport 2903, which is the same as the 3008 for 2018. Very well constructed, fit and finish was excellent. It was huge for us, more room
then we needed for a month. Probably okay if living in for long term. The HWH powered full wall slide made us a little nervous, it was a little creaky on twisting mountain
roads. Driveability was typical of larger Class A's. Not as good as the more aerodynamic C's like PC.
Hutch, We are downsizing from a 40' Monaco Diplomat and for several reasons. Before I was familiar with PC, we went to Red Bay AL and toured the Tiffin facility. I was set on getting a Tiffin Breeze. Although the Breeze was a beautiful motorhome, it was still larger than we wanted. Not going to bash Tiffin, but I'm reading on several Facebook pages that it has it's share of quality control issues. Earlier we looked at a Newmar gasser (Bay Star?), a very nice motorhome, but the slide was much too close to the driver seat and did not allow much leg room in the driver's seat. When the slide was deployed, there was all kinds of grinding noises. Long story, short... the 3100 was perfect for us. The decision between a small class A or a Phoenix Cruiser was, for us, a no brainer. Hope this might shed some light on your decision, but we all have different requirements and desires.
Cheers...
Barry T
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Barry---I really lusted for the Breeze 28BR when it first came out in 2011. It was out of my price range but the idea of a pusher on a 29'+ chassis was unique.
As it turned out, so unique that it did not work out well. Guess you cant put a zillion pound Maxforce diesel engine hanging off a chassis that only has a wheelbase of
152 inches (wow) Thats only a 43% WB to overall length ratio. I understand the porpoising was so bad that some delivery drivers would not take them to dealers.
Tiffin tried for 3 years to fix the problem but it never went completely away. I also understand that folks had questions about the Maxforce engine and reliability??
They discontinued the 28BR after 3 years.
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Another new Transit platform for the Hershey Show.
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Barry---I really lusted for the Breeze 28BR when it first came out in 2011. It was out of my price range but the idea of a pusher on a 29'+ chassis was unique.
As it turned out, so unique that it did not work out well. Guess you cant put a zillion pound Maxforce diesel engine hanging off a chassis that only has a wheelbase of
152 inches (wow) Thats only a 43% WB to overall length ratio. I understand the porpoising was so bad that some delivery drivers would not take them to dealers.
Tiffin tried for 3 years to fix the problem but it never went completely away. I also understand that folks had questions about the Maxforce engine and reliability??
They discontinued the 28BR after 3 years.
When I was at PC HQ recently, there was Breeze 28BR on the lot from a trade-in.
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It was out of my price range but the idea of a pusher on a 29'+ chassis was unique
No kidding, I worked on a pusher back in the 90's on a 14 foot chassis. Underpowered, but was cute.
(https://41dcdfcd4dea0e5aba20-931851ca4d0d7cdafe33022cf8264a37.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/15195324_1970s-volkswagen-beetles-converted-into_t5cd98b53.jpg)
I had a VW shop back then. Pretty sure it had the same wheels, but it was red. And had wipers. :cool
roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol roflol
We now return to the thread in progress.... tymote