Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: No on August 02, 2018, 10:34:24 am
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We just completed a great 3500 mile trip to Boston, passing through 11 states. The new 2552 performed great (though a Saf-T-Plus will be installed before Duluth.)
The only negative was the mediocre performance of the Norcold fridge. We boondocked 5 times at Harvest Host sites, the rest in campgrounds. All food going into the fridge was pre-chilled and I have a Camco fan (thanks Swiftboot) on the bottom shelf.On the coldest setting of 9 the temp in the fridge compartment hovered between 38 and 45. Door openings were kept to an absolute minimum. The freezer performed better, keeping a bag of ice dry and the pre-frozen prepared meals solid.
Am I missing something or is this normal? Thanks for all input!
Steve
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If it’s over 90 it will struggle if you don’t have some mods. Mine wouldn’t get below 60 when set at 8 when the temps hit 115 outside. I installed two 120mm 200cfm fans along with a speed controller. The speed controller is mounted inside the lower fridge outside access panel. The fans sit exhausting inside at the top outside vent . On a day about a week ago we hit 122 degrees and my fridge was 45 set at 7 with the fans on 3/4 throttle. Now I’m in an area where the day time highs are mid 90s and the fridge is 35 degrees set at 3. The fans are set at about 25percent. All in I’m at about $50 for the upgrade and it took me about 45 minutes tops to do the install.
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Most people would be shocked if they monitored the temps in these refers. I'm going to install an external monitor, so I don't have to open the door much. High temps can make food spoil quickly, create horrible illness, beware all.
Any leads out there for a reliable external monitor?
Doug
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It sure would be nice to set the actual inside temperature rather than guessing which number.
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Our door fell off. We were driving down the road and there was a big crash, the refrigerator door feel off and hit the floor. Come to find out, this is not uncommon. The bottom hinge broke, it supports the whole door.
Lynn 2018 2400
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Come to find out, this is not uncommon. The bottom hinge broke, it supports the whole door.
Wow, I thought Norcold had issued a fix for that with new hinges. Guess not.
Most people would be shocked if they monitored the temps in these refers. I'm going to install an external monitor
I have been using this one since we picked up the coach, working very well so far: Acurite (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QJVU78/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
I installed two 120mm 200cfm fans along with a speed controller. The speed controller is mounted inside the lower fridge outside access panel. The fans sit exhausting inside at the top outside vent .
This is a common modification and many people report dramatic improvement in performance.
I have the Norcold DE0061 which is a compressor unit. One of the reasons I got it was better temperature control. I can run the refrigerator down well below freezing if I'm not careful. Of course these units have their own quirks and are not for everyone.
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We just completed a great 3500 mile trip to Boston, passing through 11 states. The new 2552 performed great (though a Saf-T-Plus will be installed before Duluth.)
The only negative was the mediocre performance of the Norcold fridge. We boondocked 5 times at Harvest Host sites, the rest in campgrounds. All food going into the fridge was pre-chilled and I have a Camco fan (thanks Swiftboot) on the bottom shelf.On the coldest setting of 9 the temp in the fridge compartment hovered between 38 and 45. Door openings were kept to an absolute minimum. The freezer performed better, keeping a bag of ice dry and the pre-frozen prepared meals solid.
Am I missing something or is this normal? Thanks for all input!
We’ve been traveling several years with a portable Engel compressor fridge...absorption fridges are generally useless unless used for chilling liquids or storing canned items in hot weather. The Engel leaves a small footprint (we have the 2100 PC), can be used as a freezer if we want, runs on 1 1/2 amps when Boondocking and can run at 30 degrees off level if necessary. Option 2 would be to chuck the fridge and have one of the many excellent compressor fridges now on the market installed.
Steve
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A little disappointing to read this Norcold stuff. I went through HELL with my Norcold 1200 on my 2001 Diplomat and finally had it ripped out and a residential installed. My door also fell off. The only fix was to buy a new door. Then the new door fell off! I carefully fixed the broken tab with some JB Weld. My biggest problem was it finally quit cooling. I was fulltiming then and this was a major PITA.
From what I have been told and read, the newer Norcolds are performing better. I have noticed that those with complaints here have the fridge in a slide. Mine will be the passenger side and hopefully will be vented better than those in a slide. It appears that Phoenix Cruisers now come with the "new and improved Polar series. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
BTW, I was a participant in the class action law suit against Norcold (trust me, I am not the litigious type). All I did was send an email. I was awarded around $600.00 to be paid out over three years. I recently received the second installment.
Barry T
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I installed two 120mm 200cfm fans along with a speed controller. The speed controller is mounted inside the lower fridge outside access panel.
Joseph,
Are the fans 12v DC or 110v AC? I can see how that would be an active exhaust method instead of the passive as it comes stock. The fridge plugs into a 110 v outlet in the lower exterior compartment. Does anyone know if that is a full duplex outlet? Can it accept a second plug into it? The cover only provides access for the fridge plug.
I have a small thermometer hanging in the fridge. The degrees are marked plus zones, red and blue. The blue starts at 40° so it is easy to check at a glance while frantically pulling out cheese and beer.
Thank you for all the great feedback!
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My Norcold works great, I was shocked when my door fell off. I have mine set on the lowest setting and it stays in the low 30's.and food stays frozen in the freezer.
Lynn 2018, 2400
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My Norcold works great, I was shocked when my door fell off.
Lynn 2018, 2400
I thought Norcold resolved the broken door hinge issue some years ago. Our 2007 Norcold had the design flaw. I was pro-active and added the reinforcement hinges before any such failure. You can read about it HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2187.0.html).
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Winnebago has started to use both the Norcold and Nova-Kool compressor fridges in their Paseo, Travato, View/Navion. and Fuse lines.
All the units now have 200 amp solar systems standard but still using the smaller Group 27/31 12V batteries. All seems fairly well since
the change early in 2018.
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Interesting, my 2015 2551 had exhaust fans factory installed at the top vent. They are thermostatically controlled.... Or so it seems as they only cycle on/off when it's above the mid 80's inside the refrigerator vent space.
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Interesting, my 2015 2551 had exhaust fans factory installed at the top vent. They are thermostatically controlled.... Or so it seems as they only cycle on/off when it's above the mid 80's inside the refrigerator vent space.
One of the things I discussed on my recent visit to Elkhart was the installation of a fan, such as you speak. The reply was they install fans on all fridges that are installed in slides. This is because of not being able to vent it like a fridge on the curb side. Curb side fridges, such as the 3100, are vented straight through to the roof. Once I take delivery, I will closely monitor fridge temps and outside temps. If I feel it is necessary, I will install a fan to blow over the coils.
Also, these are the thermometers I bought from Amazon to monitor temps in both the fridge and freezer. Tested them at home and I like them. I have always had good results from AcuRite products.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QJVU78/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Barry T
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Thanks for the link Barry T!
I have been following this thread, and was just approaching the need for temperature monitoring.
tymote
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Townes, yes, they come with a fan however not mounted at the top , instead pushing the air rather than helping the draft by pulling. The factory unit runs but ineffective. The ones I installed unlike what the factory installed, work. I can now use my fridge even when it’s 115 degrees. Anything over 90 these fridges struggle. That’s no longer an issue in ours.
I read if so many so so reviews on the thermostats reliability that I did not install one. Instead I have a hidden toggle switch I can throw if The fans are not needed and a throttle to adjust the fans as needed. I’m in temps of the low 90’s right now and the fans are on at estimate 20 percent. My fridge is set on 2 and the interior temp is 37 .
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Time aweigh. Sorry for late reply . Yes they are 12 volt fans I bought on amazon. I’m on an old iPhone however if you’d like more info or photos send me an email.
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For the hinge breakage issue I used a method to reduce the load on the hinges. I used this successfully on a previous camper with a Dometic refrigerator and added this on our first outing in the PC after picking it up about 2 years ago. Knock on wood we have not had any hinge breakage issues so far. We typically carry pretty heavy loads in the door trays.
I attached an adhesive backed furniture slider (about 1 1/8” diameter) on the bottom of the door frame on the side opposite the hinges. When the door is closed it rides up over the slider thus carrying part of the door weight. The inexpensive plastic sliders were purchased at Walmart.
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2o2 Great Idea fandj 2o2
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I've got the remote ordered, thanks for the link guys.... now I can watch my beer get warm from the comfort of my lounge chair, oh technology!!!!
Doug
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Townes, yes, they come with a fan however not mounted at the top , instead pushing the air rather than helping the draft by pulling. The factory unit runs but ineffective. The ones I installed unlike what the factory installed, work. I can now use my fridge even when it’s 115 degrees. Anything over 90 these fridges struggle. That’s no longer an issue in ours.
I read if so many so so reviews on the thermostats reliability that I did not install one. Instead I have a hidden toggle switch I can throw if The fans are not needed and a throttle to adjust the fans as needed. I’m in temps of the low 90’s right now and the fans are on at estimate 20 percent. My fridge is set on 2 and the interior temp is 37 .
Joseph, What type of fan did you buy? A pancake? I am trying to limit my discussion and questions regarding Norcold to prevent ppl from getting sick of me! :) I hope and trust my previous nightmare with Norcold is not repeated...I'm optimistic. I do believe that a fan blowing air over the coils will help dissipate the heat and improve the Norcold's performance. I like the idea of a manual switch.
Barry T
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These guys know there stuff about rv refrigerators. I've been to there repair shop.
https://www.yellowpages.com/benton-ky/mip/ford-rv-refrigeration-15002761
Lynn 2018 2400
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Townes. I’m working from my I phone. Check your message box
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I guess I am very luck. Had no problems with the fridge in our 2013 PC2100. Don't use a fan but did buy a pair of hinges ($15 or so I think) to carry just in case. Depending on outside temp, mine is set at 4 or 5 and works great maintaining a fridge temp between 35-40 (I have 2 thermometers in different location and one in freezer) and things stay frozen in freezer but not quite as solid as in my home freezer. I do keep both compartments quite full. If there isn't a lot of food, I put in water bottles to take up the space. That helps with opening the door. When there is not much inside, refrigerated air quickly escapes. Refrigerated water bottles stay put. I also keep some frozen water bottles in the freezer for a lot of reason. The one time we were challenged in Big Bend National Park and temps hit 112, I would put the frozen ones in the fridge and cold one is the freezer to refreeze (always as we went to bed so it would stay closed for 8+hours). Worked pretty well.
If you are operating on 9, I almost think it might be a defective refrigerator.
I aslo participated in the class action law suit and just received my second check.
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Winnebago has started to use both the Norcold and Nova-Kool compressor fridges in their Paseo, Travato, View/Navion. and Fuse lines.
All the units now have 200 amp solar systems standard but still using the smaller Group 27/31 12V batteries. All seems fairly well since
the change early in 2018.
Our new Winnebago Intent also came with a compressor style refrig. I wanted the dealer to change it out to the normal gas/110v Norcold type. They said they could not because being a Winnebago dealer. But I could have gone to Camping World etc, and have it changed out. I decided to keep what was in there. It does work better than the gas/110v type by far. It's efficient and in 90+ temps, hold its temps accurate. Downside is that it draws 5 amps DC at 12 volts to operate. With 4 batteries and 800 watts of solar, I have more than enough to keep this thing running and everything else. A plus in all this is that it would have cost me $4000 for the conversion if I would have chose that direction. The solar and batteries cost me less than $2000.. I think the 800 watts is a bit of an overkill, but I like it!
BTW, to replace the Norcold 2way costs $3000. To replace my compressor refrig is about $170! Another plus.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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We just completed a great 3500 mile trip to Boston, passing through 11 states. The new 2552 performed great (though a Saf-T-Plus will be installed before Duluth.)
The only negative was the mediocre performance of the Norcold fridge. We boondocked 5 times at Harvest Host sites, the rest in campgrounds. All food going into the fridge was pre-chilled and I have a Camco fan (thanks Swiftboot) on the bottom shelf.On the coldest setting of 9 the temp in the fridge compartment hovered between 38 and 45. Door openings were kept to an absolute minimum. The freezer performed better, keeping a bag of ice dry and the pre-frozen prepared meals solid.
Am I missing something or is this normal? Thanks for all input!
Steve
Steve,
I was going to reply in a private message, but thought others might be interested in the "Harvest Host" program. My question is...in general how pleased are you with the program? My understanding is for an annual fee of $49.00, you have the privilege of overnighting at participating wineries along with the suggestion of buying a bottle or two. Sounds like a great idea.
https://harvesthosts.com/join/?utm_source=RVTravel&utm_medium=RVTravel&utm_campaign=RVTravel&utm_expid=.r1aMU6X8R_qq2ww6nOWrog.0&utm_referrer=
Cheers...
Barry T
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Denny & Barb
You must have a larger fridge to burn 5 amps average. The Nova-Kool and Norcold 6 CF and under are drawing about 3 amps. All in all compressor
fridges are great. Weve had our Nova-Kool running 24X7 for 12 years. I do shut it off for a month in the winter to defrost.
The other drawback to swapping out a compressor fridge for an absorption fridge is outside venting. Most RV/Marine compressor fridges do not need exterior
venting, whereas the absorption fridges have those one or two exterior wall vents. Would have to make a hole someplace. :(
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Denny & Barb
On my DE0061 the draw is a measured 3amps. Measured over 10 days with nights in the 60's and days in the 90's. I think the peak draw is 5 amps but duty cycle is less than that.
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Barry,
I started a new thread in answer to your question regarding Harvest Host.
Steve
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Barry,
I started a new thread in answer to your question regarding Harvest Host.
Steve
Good idea. Thanks! I suppose I hi-jacked this thread!!
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All the complaints about the refrigerator gave me a big worry since, for first time the RV has been parked in never never land and no electric for first time. Refrigerator off several weeks.. Today RV came home in prep for trip to Ft McCoy to meet up with other PC owners... Well I put my refrig temp gauge in to see how things went in freezer... Here we are 6 hours in and it is 20 degrees... It is set at #9 which is coldest and now I may need to cut back to 7 or 8... It is cold as can be. What I did was I put some frozen items that I wanted to take but are not affected by defrosting in to assist with the cooling process. It worked beautifully. Plus ac was on in RV too. I cannot complain at all. I am delighted that it got nice and cold so my frozen items can travel with no pain. My 20016 delivered July 26th had not been left in hot and no ac or no refrigerator before. I am pleased with the restart. Now I feel a lot better about my take off Monday. Wash the dog Saturday. Looking forward now.
My refrig is the elec or lp gas model. Now I wish for a little bigger but wont happen. It is not in a slide but in a non slide area.
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After I installed the exhaust fans I just completed a 2 month road trip starting in temps of 120 degrees and many places in the 101-105 range. Above 105 I had the fans running at 50% and the fridge set at 4. once the temps were down to 105 or less the fans were down to roughly 25% and the fridge was never set above 2. Once temps were in the 80s to mid 90s I had the fan running maybe at 10% and still set at 2. During this entire time my fridge was in the 34-36 degree range.
I normally set the fridge at 7-9 if it was upper 90s to keep the fridge under 40 degrees. If it was in the 115-120 range all bets were off to keep it under 50.
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Hi Joseph,
According to your data, your additional fan(s) mounted behind the fridge via the outdoor access panel(s) yielded great results. I wish you would write an article in the Tips & Tricks section. If you decide to write one, please include many detailed pictures and your source for your fan speed controller and fans.
Our 11 year old Norcold fridge has never been an issue, but since we are spring & fall travelers in hot climates, we have never camped in temperatures over 90 degrees with our PC. We generally set the fridge between 7 and 9. Our fridge is not inside a slide-out which means the fridge vent is in the roof, not the wall. I don't know if that makes a difference in fridge performance when temps are triple-digit. I would like to see exactly what you did to yield such great results with your side-mount ventilation condition.
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Hi Joseph,
I agree with Ron. It would be wonderful if you would fill us in with all the modifications you have made. I'm to the point of replacing mine, which really is a waste.
I'm sure PC is fully aware of these issues, and could correct them if they want.
Doug
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Ron, correct me if I’m wrong but being that your unit does not have a slide your fridge is a top vent, correct? From all the info I could find the top vent units draft the heat much better than the side draft that is used in a slide.
Our fridge developed an ammonia leak a bit over a year ago. Due to the class action results there was an extended warranty given and I received a new unit in regards to the cooling unit itself so mine is essentially only a year old. I also believe that for most who don’t live in a hot area (triple digits) this may not be needed. When I first installed the fans they were super loud so I added a rheostat to control the fan speed. This made all the difference regarding noise and required fan speed.
The next time I pull the cover I will try to get some decent pictures and post what I did. There are several sites basically showing the same. I just added a rheostat for more control.
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Big, this isn’t a PC issue so much as an issue with ammonia type units (especially those in slides) installed in any brand motorhome. I’m betting any builder would shy away from making any mods on something they don’t have the ownership of the warranty.
Next time I pull the cover I will take some pics and post what was done. It’s an hour job and all in for around 50 dollars if not a bit less.
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Joseph,
Looking forward to the pictures, when you get the chance.
I've had these refers in older trailers, and I don't remember ever having these issues. I don't blame PC for the product, its not theirs, but, I do believe it would be to their advantage
to tell potential customers that there is a really good chance this refer will not work correctly when outside temps hit 90. It would be a great time for them to up sale and make everyone happy... including their bottom line. Or, I guess continue using a product that they know is not up to par.
Doug
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UPDATE:
I tested the resistance of the thermistor in the Norcold fridge (model N621). Placed the sensing unit in an ice bath and instead of reading 30 - 32 kΩ it was reading 56 kΩ. At that resistance level the control board is thinking the fridge is about 13°F. A second test at the upper range in 85°F water gave a resistance of 15.2 kΩ which translates to 50°F. No wonder it was always warm! No error codes on the control display.
We were at the PC factory for warranty work on the fridge and the Norcold rep inspected the unit. He did complete the installation that PC had not done (insulation above the fridge and upper baffle) yet did not perform a simple check of the thermistor with a multimeter. It took me all of 5 minutes! He did look inside the fridge cabinet so I naturally assumed he knew what he was doing as a factory rep.
Hopefully the new OEM part that arrives next week will solve this problem. A $20 part that was apparently bad from the factory cost us plenty of headache and a lot of spoiled food.
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Was your refer having performance problems all the time? More specific, when outdoor temps varied/ high and low?
Doug
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Doug,
Yes, it has been bad from the start which is why we detoured to Elkhart on the way home from the Duluth rally last summer.
At first the best I could get was about 40-42° when first chilling it at home before a trip. We went to central FL in June so it was hot outside, and also went to Duluth with night temps in the 50's. The temp inside the fridge yo-yo'ed regardless of ambient exterior temps. We never put anything in the fridge part was not pre-chilled or in the freezer without being already frozen.
I installed a second exhaust fan at the upper vent that was wired to work with the lower fan. That did help a bit. The Norcold rep met us at the PC factory and said the original installation was incomplete. There was no insulation installed in the enclosure above the fridge, so this void filled with hot air. He stuffed it with insulation and also installed a baffle to direct the rising hot air off the boiler tubes and fins to the side vent. He liked my fan installation also. Again this helped a bit more. We could now get 37° in the fridge compartment yet it would not hold it. I keep a thermometer inside and I would get 50° with never having the door open. The boiler tubes were cold when they should be hot. I powered off the unit, then turned it back on. The boiler kicked on immediately and began cooling. Same results whether on electric or LP.
So more googling and I found the article on the thermistor that the factory rep said he checked. The new part is due for delivery in two days; I'll update the results. My brother-in-law's 2007 PC with Norcold has given him great performance; keeping ice cream rock hard. I hope ours will do the same soon.
Bottom line:
-PC did not install the Norcold properly by failing to properly insulate.
-Norcold rep did not check the thermistor though he did complete the installation. Knowing that we were mid-trip I would have expected a more thorough inspection on a warranty work call. I would also expect a follow-up from PC to ensure I was satisfied with the results. That did not happen.
RV's are tiny little towns with one resident supporting the appliance store, the sanitary sewer system, the power grid, the water company, motor pool, handyman service, and communications network. They will never be perfect when delivered. I have fixed a leaking water valve, covered bolt threads and smoothed fiberglass penetrations to prevent chafed wiring. re-routed battery cables, installed a steering stabilizer and removed the bathroom sliding door that was pulling away from the ceiling. These little challenges are fun to resolve.
We love our 2552 and feel the PC is the best buy on the market.
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Winnebago has started to use both the Norcold and Nova-Kool compressor fridges in their Paseo, Travato, View/Navion. and Fuse lines.
All the units now have 200 amp solar systems standard but still using the smaller Group 27/31 12V batteries. All seems fairly well since
the change early in 2018.
Even though I fought Winny's compressor refrig, I think in the long run, it's the way to go. Just add a few hundred watts of Solar, and some 2 or 4 good Walmart deep cells, and the peace of mind would be good. My refrig costs less than $150 to replace if it craps out. Unlike the $300 if yours goes south on you.
Denny and Barb
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SUCCESS!!!!
Our fridge made ICE for the very first time!
It cooled warm drinks to frosty drinkableness!
And all for a $20 part that took 5 minutes to install. The factory thermistor was defective, the replacement works great.
A happy end to a long, frustrating problem.
Bottom line, if your Norcold is not maintaining its cool, check the thermistor with a multimeter as part of your troubleshooting. Plunk it in a cup of crushed ice and water, touch the probes of an ohmmeter to the contacts in the connector and it should read 30-32,000 ohms.
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Winnebago has started to use both the Norcold and Nova-Kool compressor fridges in their Paseo, Travato, View/Navion. and Fuse lines.
All the units now have 200 amp solar systems standard but still using the smaller Group 27/31 12V batteries. All seems fairly well since
the change early in 2018.
Even though I fought Winny's compressor refrig, I think in the long run, it's the way to go. Just add a few hundred watts of Solar, and some 2 or 4 good Walmart deep cells, and the peace of mind would be good. My refrig costs less than $150 to replace if it craps out. Unlike the $300 if yours goes south on you.
Denny and Barb
I would love to put a compressor frige in my 2350, what model fit yours?
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NO,
Glad to hear you had success. You mentioned you installed exhaust fans, with the new thermistor are you running these fans?
Doug