Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: gandalf42 on May 30, 2018, 03:06:10 pm
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I know there have been issues with latches. I had a couple fail last summer the first few months of use of my just purchased 2017 2552. Getting ready for a trip we had another fall apart and checking all the latches we have now had 7 fail in the first 12 months. These are the much disliked BRD Supply company brand. This rate of failure compares to 3 Southco failures I had in the 10 years we had a Born Free. >(
I called Carol at Phoenix and she is sending me out 6 new latches (I only knew of 2 failures at the time of the call) which is nice as I am a few days out of warranty.
The good news from Carol: they no longer use the BRD Supply latches and have switched to Southco latches. 2o2
Because of this, the replacement latches she is sending out are Southco latches. She said they are drop in replaceable. This may not be true as I had several Southco latches in my parts pile. The failures have all been to base of the "hook" portion of the latch not the "catch" portion. The Southco latches I had all had the same "hook" portion and while you could typically find one of the screw holes to match from the BRD to the Southco, the Southco footprint is bigger and requires the 2nd hole to be drilled.
It wasn't hard to get the new "hooks" to line up and so I have repaired all but one of the latches. I overshot one drilling hole and poked through the wood. To add insult to the gaff the drill bit then broke off in the hole! :beg This is shared just to say be careful when drilling! :)
I will provide an update when I receive the latches from Carol whether the "hooks" are drop in replacements or require some careful drilling.
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I have now replaced 6 latches on my rig. The first two the factory sent me new BRD replacements. The last four I bought Southco latches from Amazon as I was done with the BRD ones.
Oddly, all of my failures have been to the 'catch' portion not the 'hook'. The catches are, as far as I can tell, drop in identical to the BRD ones with the holes a perfect match. But the hooks are indeed different. But so far I have just used the BRD hooks already in place and just put on the new catches.
Good to hear the factory is now using Southco, the failure rate on the BRD ones is much too high for a coach that costs this much. We are heading to Elkhart next week to have some work done and I'll check and see if I can get some replacement Southco ones.
I also need to figure out a way to keep the pantry closed. Even with double latches it pops open on a regular basis.
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I have replaced several latches as well with southco. In lieu of drilling a new hole, I elongated the hole in the latch in order to use the same screw hole. This can be done with a small drill bit in the hole and placing lateral pressure on the latch to the desired point. All my failures have been the catch part as opposed to hook.
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Just got back from a trip to southern Ohio for a wedding. Had THREE latches break. I had stopped at Phoenix enroute home from Sisters, OR for slide out seals and several broken latches. Bob gave me four extra latches. These were Southco brand. When installing the new ones, I noticed that they can be installed so the "hook" part will hit the "catch" part so the hook will push he latch without the hook going into the latch. Hope this makes sense. Anyway, I adjusted the ones I just installed and checked all others and found two that were out of adjustment and would soon break if closed hard. So check your latches.
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Try experimenting with one latch....spray the internals with silicone spray and then do NOT touch it, or wipe it, or work the latch, or anything. Just use a tissue to catch the drips and then let dry overnight. I recall certain silicon sprays will melt certain plastics and recall this might happen with silicone spray and PC latches. If you don't touch the latch after spraying it and just let it dry overnight, you will have either created a plastic blob or a well working reliable latch. It is surely worth experimenting on one latch if you have a stash of replacements.
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We didn't break a single latch our first year out then they broke one after the other. I tried WD-40 - no joy. I tried powdered graphite - still no joy. Phoenix gave us a stash but we've run out of those so I'll be ordering from Amazon. All but one of them failed on the catch side. The one hook that broke seemed due to alignment being slightly off. Ours didn't break until we had camped in sea air and I wondered if the salt and humidity does them in.
What pull weight are you replacing with?
Jatrax, our pantry has a big honking steel pull pin at the top to secure the slide then I think the little latch for the door. Are the new rigs coming out with only the hook latches on the door instead? Or do you lock the slide and still have the door pop open?
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I find it interesting that most failures others are having are on the catch side while mine are all on the hook side. I did notice that the holes drilled for the hooks had caused a mound around the holes and I believe this would cause more stress on the base of the hook as it would make it more difficult to distribute the stress across the whole base vs just over the screw points, which are where the breaks are occurring.
Even with my "long term" failures of the 3 Southco's over 10 years in the Born Free I believe 2 were hooks and one was a catch. I did have several times that the catch would get closed somehow without the hook in it. Trying to close the cabinet then would just cause a collision and probably stress both parts. I would need to take a screwdriver and open the catch and everything would be OK again.
Regarding the pantry: mine has individual pull out drawers covered by a door that has 2 latches. One is currently broken (the hook part again) and gone but, so far, hasn't caused an issue with opening up while moving. I'll probably replace the broken one when I get some more latches.
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Try experimenting with one latch....spray the internals with silicone spray and then do NOT touch it, or wipe it, or work the latch, or anything. Just use a tissue to catch the drips and then let dry overnight. I recall certain silicon sprays will melt certain plastics and recall this might happen with silicone spray and PC latches. If you don't touch the latch after spraying it and just let it dry overnight, you will have either created a plastic blob or a well working reliable latch. It is surely worth experimenting on one latch if you have a stash of replacements.
:beg For those of us WITHOUT a pile of replacements, try this:
Using a Q-tip (or other cotton swab on a stick..) saturate the cotton end with the lubricant you wish to use. CAREFUL ABOUT DRIPS!! Apply the saturated cotton end to somewhere on the latch. (Pick a spot that isn't obvious should dissolving occur.) With a light rubbing motion, you should quickly feel if the q-tip is sticking to the plastic (DISSOLVING!!) or stays slick and slides easily. This test can be done with the latch in place, and wont damage it if indeed the lubricant dissolves the plastic a little.
Another 'quick and dirty' check is to test spray an old styrofoam coffee cup and see how it fares. The expanded polystyrene foam (EPS) will usually be a good indicator of how many other plastics will do. Not every time, however, so if it passes the cup test, maybe still do the swab test to be sure.
Getting a lubricant for RC planes and models will generally give a plastic-safe product. When in doubt...test.
Our 2006 had one broken latch on the door under the sink. I swapped out the one from a small door by the house stereo. Getting a replacement is on the honey-do list. :-D
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Jatrax, our pantry has a big honking steel pull pin at the top to secure the slide then I think the little latch for the door. Are the new rigs coming out with only the hook latches on the door instead? Or do you lock the slide and still have the door pop open?
I was told at some point there was a redesign of the pantry. Not having seen any but my own it is hard to say. But there is no pin or any other lock except the door catches. There is no slide like you have but three separate drawers. We had it pop open on our trip back and the factory sent us an extra catch so the door now has one at the top and one at the bottom. But if you take a turn too quick it will still pop open and all the drawers will slide out.
I wonder if the catch side failure is not caused by the catches getting closed while the door is open. Then when you try to close the door the hook smashes into the closed catch and breaks it. On mine the plastic parts and springs just fell out on the floor so I can imagine that slamming the door shut on a closed catch might have caused that issue. I've noticed several times that the catches are in the closed position while the door is open and had to pry them back open to get the door to closed.
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FWIW, I have been using WD-40 Silicone Spray on my 2012 latches as well as the replacements that Kermit sent me. So far, so good. ;) The WD-40 Silicone Spray hasn't gotten sticky like the regular fish oil WD-40 Spray does over time. :)(:
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I find it interesting that most failures others are having are on the catch side while mine are all on the hook side. I did notice that the holes drilled for the hooks had caused a mound around the holes and I believe this would cause more stress on the base of the hook as it would make it more difficult to distribute the stress across the whole base vs just over the screw points, which are where the breaks are occurring.
You just described my experience with our 11 year old PC, a 2007 model year with SouthCo latches. When we rarely break something, it will be the hook-side, caused when catching a shirt sleeve on it. I think only one mechanical-side latch required replacement so far and as I recall, it was of my own doing when replacing a hook, from being misaligned.
Some time after 2007, the latches came from another supplier, their parts made in China. Since then, the problems have greatly escalated. I am glad to read Phoenix switched back to SouthCo, but are SouthCo latches still made in the USA or are they now made in China? I hope SouthCo today is as good as earlier times.
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I hope SouthCo today is as good as earlier times.
I guess we will find out Ron. I can say that the Southco ones I have are just slightly 'beefier" in the materials used. The hook side especially is much heftier. It is harder to tell on the catch side but to my eye it does appear to have just a bit more material all around.
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I was told at some point there was a redesign of the pantry.
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I just checked a video walkthrough and saw the new pantry. I'm jealous! Ours is one unit that glides on top and bottom tracks. That unit has the giant pin to secure the weight which works well. You leave it open in camp and secure it for travel. The door latch just has to hold the door. We have three or four open shelves with a lip at the front. The shelves are maybe four inches deep so careful selection of storage containers and cereal boxes is needed. You can fit one can of something front to back and when something spills (because you crammed it in or it rocked over on a turn), it is a bear to clean as there isn't much space to get in under the unit.
That said, I can see the problem those little door latches would have holding loaded drawers. The pin wouldn't work for them and that's a lot of weight hitting the door pin a hard turn.
Can someone with the new design please measure the outside width of the pantry unit? I now covet one and wonder if a direct swap is possible. We're preparing for our seven week trip with the granddaughter and I'm staring at a good load of dry goods that would fit so nicely in those drawers. We are hoping for a trip to the factory in the fall and a new pantry might make the list.
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I'm ready to order Southco C3 series latches and am wondering which model to buy.
13N = 3 lb pull (seems too wimpy for RV)
22N = 5 lb pull ???
44N = 10 lb pull
I figure the 5 or 10. I want cabinets to stay shut but don't want to have to wrestle with a door just to brush my teeth. Any words of wisdom?
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If PC is now using Southco latches you may find that Carol will give you a better price than anyone else. Call her.
Also 5 lb should be about right ask her what they use. She may also give you some even though your MH is 5 years old.
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I bought the 5 pound Southco ones and they seem to have about the same force as the BRD ones they replaced.
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Can someone with the new design please measure the outside width of the pantry unit?
The interior dimensions are 8" wide by 46.5" high. On mine it is built into the refrigerator cabinet, not a separate add on so no way to accurately measure the outside.
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When building the drawers for under the passenger side bed I used the Southco 10# latches. We typically store fairly heavy can goods in the drawers and found the latches occasionally would open while traveling. I had one of the two latches fail (broke the receiver part). I ultimately replaced these latches with quarter turn latches. These provide a strong mechanical lock to hold drawers in place while traveling.
Like others I have replaced several BRD latches on various cabinet doors. After replacing the latches twice on the smaller cabinet doors above the kitchen sink I replaced them with home cabinet style magnet latches as suggested by Barry and Sue. So far these seem to be working well.
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Thanks, all! I'll put a call in to Carol. We'll be driving by the factory in a few weeks and might be able to do a quick parts pick-up stop. I have to think about that though as I'm sure all sorts of things will be calling to us. NOT a new rig - we don't need a new rig. However, a few upgrades are already on the list.
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Talking about drawers and opening on their own.....
I had reconfigured our galley base cabinet from 5 small drawers and a butcher block, DETAILS & PICTURES HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,1751.0.html) to 3 massive drawers which by my measurements, increased storage volume by 85%. As a result, the weight of the drawers increased tremendously, not just contents, but the drawers themselves. I initially had 5 double-magnet latches per drawer to keep them closed. Irene didn't like the "jerk" it took to open them, but that is what it took to hold them closed......or so I thought.
Our first major trip with our new galley, we were in Glacier NP in the south/east region on a scenic road that need some serious road work. In a hair-pin turn, between the bumpy road and the weight of the drawers, all 3 flew open with such force that all the track-stops broke and all 3 drawers ended on the floor with a huge crash. We spent the rest of the trip using our dinette cushions as insurance in-case the drawers popped open again for they would easily end up on the floor again.
In the end I installed all new tracks and kept 3 magnetic latches to hold the drawers closed while at-camp. Irene liked the gentle force to open them. I also added a locking button latch on each drawer which we have to remember to lock before moving the PC. So far so good.
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I also added a locking button latch on each drawer which we have to remember to lock before moving the PC. So far so good.
Ron do you have a link for those button latches? I'm thinking I might have to go to those on my pantry.
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I also added a locking button latch on each drawer which we have to remember to lock before moving the PC. So far so good.
Ron do you have a link for those button latches? I'm thinking I might have to go to those on my pantry.
Hi jatrax,
I don't have my source any longer. I do recall that the gold finish I required was nearly impossible to find. The current-day brushed aluminum finish and a few others were very easy to find. It seems many suppliers offer the exact same mechanism from the same manufacture. It is the finish-pieces that make-up your choices.
If buying them, you need to know they are not a smooth operating latch, that is until I doused the internals with silicone spray. That was some years ago and the one-time silicone application continues to do well to this day.
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John, I was just looking at those latches on the Southco site https://www.southco.com/en-us/m1-2a. I recommend browsing their products for what you want then searching the internet with the model number you've chosen to find the best deal. That search may net you other manufacturers and comparisons also.
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HEY! This is a continuing saga! :lol
For those who may follow... https://www.amazon.com/Southco-C3-805-Passivated-Plastic-Concealed/dp/B076FYL6N7/ref=sr_1_1
5# pull, 10 pack for $63. 10 # pull available also, and cheaper. https://www.amazon.com/Southco-Passivated-Plastic-Grabber-Concealed/dp/B076FRBNN4/ref=sr_1_1,
But we have had no issues with the holding. Just durability. So going to stay with the 5# pull.
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We installed some 10# pulls and had to swap them back. They require a really hard yank to open them AND I found myself pounding them to close them... sometimes repeatedly if they really ticked me off.
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We installed some 10# pulls and had to swap them back. They require a really hard yank to open them AND I found myself pounding them to close them... sometimes repeatedly if they really ticked me off.
THANK YOU. I was very close to getting the 10#, but Mrs V is rather petite, and I did not want her going through *exactly* what you describe. 2o2
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Am I correct in assuming that what they call the 22N is the 5# pull?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076G379G9/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Am I correct in assuming that what they call the 22N is the 5# pull?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076G379G9/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Yes, but I found the SouthCo part number a bit easier to understand, the Southco C3-805 is a 5 pound, Southco C3-803 3 pound and the Southco C3-810 a 10 pound.
But thats cause I am an American, and not up on the Newton as a unit of measure...just a cookie. roflol
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Fig-Newtons-Box-Small.jpg)
22 Newtons (N) = 4.945798 Pounds force (lb) :-D So yes indeed.
(edit for typo)
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Thanks for the clarity, now can I have a cookie too?
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Thanks for the clarity, now can I have a cookie too?
(exactly) INDULGE! 2o2
Mrs V is the cookie monster... next time you are gonna be on i95 near Florida exit 173 let me know. They are to die for. Enjoying Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip now. heartshower
Got our latches coming. Bought a 10-pack, and glad I did. A quick inventory last night showed I have 4 broken.. :beg
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Ah Fig Newtons! I got a story about those.
In 1988 when Irene was pregnant with our second, she used our little Toyota motor home as her around-town vehicle. She had a bad case of morning sickness and so she kept Fig Newtons in that little RV to help her get through a spell. It was then that we were living in an apartment complex while our house was being built.
One day I drove the RV to work so Irene could use the car. On my way to work I wondered what that smell was inside the RV. I drove the 30 miles and back home at the end of my work day, all along circulating air through the RV because of the smell. When I got back home to the apartment, I decided to check out the cause of the strange odor. I found the shallow kitchen sink was full of vomit and all my driving had it sloshing around and running down the cabinet to the carpet. And there were Irene's Fig Newtons, in the vomit and more still in the wrapper close by.
I was furious. My wife has morning sickness and decides to throw up in the kitchen sink, and doesn't say anything to me. Well.....I stomp into the apartment and start ranting about the wrong she did without any detail on what my complaint was about. I continued to say "You know what you did, don't deny it!" After she refused to confess, I said "How could you throw up in the RV sink and not say anything? The RV stinks to high heaven! Irene stood her ground saying she did not vomit in the sink.
After much back and fourth, our arguing eventually stopped and I took buckets of water and cleaners and went out to clean up the horrible mess. The sink was clogged with vomit so it wouldn't go down. It just stayed in the sink and sloshed out as I drove along. As I was cleaning up the mess, I detected an alcohol odor in the vomit. After much thought over MANY YEARS (just ask Irene how long) I concluded we accidentally left the RV door unlocked and a homeless person slept inside that night. He or she found Irene's Fig Newtons and made a meal of them. Apparently Fig Newtons don't mix well with a bottle of booze.
CLICK HERE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157621472936441) to see some pictures of the interior of our old little RV with that shallow kitchen sink.
Irene and I have a good laugh to this day about that saga. Circumstantial evidence weighed so very heavy against her. I still say she's guilty, ha ha.
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Hooboy! Have you been in the, dozen roses/ mo. club, for twenty plus years?
Patti
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Hooboy! Have you been in the, dozen roses/ mo. club, for twenty plus years?
Patti
roflol Patti, that would be 32 years ago when the "vomit in the RV" occurred. I never did buy Irene a dozen roses over that error, but I love her dearly and always did, and she never thought otherwise. On the 50th anniversary of that day (exact day not remembered), I should buy her 50 dozen roses.