Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: jam4travel on April 20, 2018, 12:14:29 pm
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I'm having a new Phoenix Cruiser Model 3100 built. This will be my first Phoenix Cruiser.
I would like Phoenix Cruiser owners to share with me and others how you would rate the noise level in the cab when cruising down the road @ 70mph; Low, Medium, High.
If the noise level was higher than you liked, have you taken any steps to reduce the noise?
Thank You in Advance!!
John
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Hi John,
I think it depends on your expectations. If you are used to a Lexus or Mercedes cab then yes, it is going sound loud. If you are used to a pickup or any other truck it's nothing to worry about. Conversation is always manageable.
However, the V-10 revs high, so when you start up grades it gets a lot louder. The first time you are going to wonder if the engine is going to go. But that's the way it is designed to operate.
PC did add extra insulation in my cab. It was one of the listed options, not sure what that entails or if it is still an option or standard now. You might ask them for details on it.
Bottom line, cruising down the highway I don't even notice the noise. Up hills, yeah you are going hear it.
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Same experience as jatrax.
We were actually surprised by the lack of road noise in our 2002 PC 2100. Which is noticeably quieter on the road (max speed 65/68 mph) than either of our vehicles. As others have noted, when that V10 kicks in to make the necessary horsepower, it is apparent.
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Ditto Jatrax.
I had a 3100, when climbing hills it is going to downshift and rev up, you will definetly hear it! At first I felt as tho maybe I was abusing the engine, it is quite loud at 3000, 3500rpm, but you are not hurting it at all, let it rev and make its power. On flat highway cruising at 65 mph it is very pleasant and quite quiet, I did not add any insulation material.
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I've been told the newer 6 speed tranny is a big improvement over the older ones in shifting patterns. But never having driven one I have no comparison.
If you think of it as a truck and not a sports car it is a pleasure to drive. I honestly prefer driving it than the car on long trips.
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I found the noise level on the high side in both of my PC's. I did extensive additional insulating of the cab area on my 3100. Did the doors, floor, additional dog house, and the hood area. I think I reduced the cab noise by upwards of 45%. I would order any additional insulation you can get. I never had any heat issues in the cab area (passenger) that some owners claim.
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I agree with everyone's comments.
Our PC is now 11 years old with only the standard materials in the cab area. We never give a thought about the noise level while cruising. We find it to be just fine. BUT when climbing and engine braking, when the engine rev's up under those conditions, Irene and I have to raise our voices to communicate with each other. Also, a common complaint, the floor gets hot near the passenger. SO, I would think if Phoenix has an option to increase insulation/sound deadening on the cab floor and engine housing, to consider the upgrade.
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If I had never ridden in a Diesel pusher with air bags I’d never had thought the PC cab noise was all that loud nor the ride rough. On the flats the cab noise isn’t bad by any means. However if it gets hilly it’s annoyingly loud. As someone pointed out the high revs hurts nothing, except maybe your nerves with the noise.
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Our Sprinter is much quieter when cruising than our Hyundai Santa Fe. When climbing, the noise doesn't increase appreciably. But, that's a Mercedes diesel engine for you. ;)
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Obviously, we all have different opinions as to what is and acceptable noise level in the cab area. I will just say that carpet over bare metal as is the case with PC's and many other manufacturers is just not enough from the hot/cold/noise perspective. Any additional insulation is worth every cent!
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Also its not a PC thing, all other class C units have the same sound cab issues. Unless of course you add insulation which helps to some degree. Just how much needs to be measured. I added something above the exhaust due to the passenger side floor being uncomfortably hot. Cost was small and it ellviated the problem. I’ve never tried to quiet down the cab.
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We can hear the cats purring when driving down the road in our 2552, except on steep climbs. Most road miles are spent listening to audio books and the radio volume in not that high.
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Custom car builders use a product called Dynamat to insulate against noise and heat. Maybe ask your local street rod shop if they would have space to work on a 31 ft motorhome if you are still on the fence or if Phoenix says no.
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While restoring a vehicle --back in my poorer days-- I used surplus computer mouse pads secured with contact cement. This did a surprisingly good job with sound reduction. Although I am not sure I would recommend this approach to the PC builders.
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I purchased pre cut Dynamat kit specifically for the E-450. Again, Dynamat in the doors, floorboards, hood and additional dog house insulation made a big difference with wind and road noise. The doors sound super solid when you close them. It has been a few years now but I think I sent about $400 for the Dynamat product. Until you hear the difference you do not know what you are missing.
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I'm the current owner "ragoodsp's" 3100 so I don't know how noisy the PCs are when they come out of the factory. I do know that I enjoy a very quiet ride and feel no heat from the floor or engine compartment. Dynamat could be the answer to your noise issue.
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Hi ragoodsp,
I like the concept of the Dynamat product and have a few curious questions.
When you installed the Dynamat to the floor, how did removing the carpet go for you? Did it separate easily from the floor adhesive? Does the Dynamat product have a peel-&-stick feature to adhere it to the floor? Did you re-glue the carpet onto the Dynamat product, or did you finish the floor using another product like a full-covering rubber mat for example? If reusing the PC carpet, I fear it won't fit nearly as well as it originally did given the product in-between now.
About the engine cover (dog house) portion. I assume the Dynamat product is adhered to the inside "engine side" of the cover. Is the product held on with fasteners or adhesive? If adhesive, how well did the adhesive hold up to the extreme engine heat? I am a bit concerned of that because I fear the product would come loose and fall onto the engine and exhaust, especially on a used PC where there is some grime on the original Ford insulation preventing ideal adhesion. Does the Dynamat replace the Ford insulation, or is it adhered over it?
One more question. You mentioned the Dynamat product included a piece for the hood. I am confused about that. Do you mean the main hood outside? If so, what would be the benefit of insulating that? I would appreciate your thoughts about that.
If available, I would like the pre-cut product for the two doors and engine cover. I am not sure about the floor, and question the purpose for the hood outside.
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Ron D. and others.....I ripped the carpet up completely ( took out the seats) and ordered new pre cut matching carpet from PC (I think it was $80.00). There is no way you could salvage the old carpet that was stuck down. I did not re-glue the new carpet because I saw no reason to do such. The dog house kit went over the OEM insulation and utilizes super adhesive and I never saw any sagging etc. The hood I actually cut myself out of Dynamat material and only covered the cut out areas of the hood. I am sorry but it has been a few years and I have no record of the companies that I used but a Google search should ID such company's. The floorboard area does have strategic pre determined areas where the initial pads must be placed before the rest of the Dynamat material is put down. You must roll the material down very well, and cover every possible area. The door panels come of very easily and one must take plenty of time to lay up the Dynamat material. I am very pleased that LuvShack is enjoying my super 3100 coach, it is a super handling coach with the updates I did to it. I utilized an app on my phone to determine the great reduction of decibels within the cab area. best of luck
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Thanks ragoodsp for the details.
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Ron D. and others....I did a little research and found the sources I used for insulation kits for the E-450.....AcoustiShield.com and Carids truck supply. A little pricey but worth every cent in my mind. I have done the same approach in my new Freightliner M2 that did come with the "insulation package" but not enough for my ears. best of luck. RAG
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RE: "You must roll the material down very well, and cover every possible area. "
I agree on the 'roll well' , the mat I like to use has a pattern that gets mashed in when properly rolled to the surface. Helps locate missed spots.
Cover every possible area... not necessary in my experience.
This link - http://www.caraudiofabrication.com/sound-treatment-trunk states ""In this video we cover the "25% method". This means that we only need to cover 25% of the surface area of the sheet metal of the vehicle with CLD material to achieve 99% or the performance gain. Anything past this 25% is likely a waste of effort, time, and materials, and is not likely to net as much performance gain.""
While I tend to go much closer to 75% coverage or more, I do agree with their premise. I have installed new doors on cars during repair, and they did not come with the pad of dampening material installed. A few came with it in the box (BMW comes to mind) most do not mention or include it. The addition of a 4x12 inch piece in a door makes a HUUUGE difference. Forgetting/ignoring the pad makes for one door that sounds like a tin can. :lol
The engine cover piece seems to be a GREAT idea. Thanks!