Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Funseekers on March 19, 2018, 11:05:45 pm
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Has anyone heard any news about when the new 4 way valve will be available for installation?
Our second valve replacement has once again failed but fortunately we were able to turn off the outside city water supply before our coach once again flooded. Am looking forward to this new design that has been talked about as it’s becoming inconvenient to turn off our outside city water at night before bedtime and rely on our water pump (quite noisy for the neighbors)
Am curious if PC is informing new owners of this ongoing problem.
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First I've heard of it. What is the make and model of the valve you have?
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What is the problem with the valve? Obviously it is leaking for you, but what is leaking; the valve itself, the fittings, etc.? Thanks for any information.
Gary
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We took delivery of our new PC last week and asked specifically about this issue based on previous discussions on the forum. Was told to relieve pressure before making a switch to another position. For example, if connected and using city water and wish to switch to tank fill, first turn city water off, open one end of the hose to relieve pressure, switch to tank fill, and then re-connect hose and fill tank. If the pressure is not relieved, it could damage the O rings in the water switch. In this example not sure if that also means to open up a faucet inside the coach to relieve pressure from the inside as well.
Hope this helps.
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Was told to relieve pressure before making a switch to another position.
Yes, that is the standard advice for any of these 4 way valves. And not doing so has apparently caused problems for a long time based on reports on other forums (not just Phoenix). Search for "kant leak problem".
Typically the valve in question has been from Anderson Brass:
http://andersonbrass.com/rv_4_function_fill_station.php
http://andersonbrass.com/rv_water_service_panels.php
Heartland 200-RV Manual (https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/manuals/Plumbing/UDC/Anderson/Anderson%20RV200Kantleak%20200RV%20INSTALLATION%20SERVICING%20and%20TEST%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf)
But I was wondering if that is what Phoenix is still using or if this is a new issue.
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Contact Anderson as they were sending at no cost a supposedly updated valve. I received one last year and the leaking has stopped to date.
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Contact Anderson as they were sending at no cost a supposedly updated valve. I received one last year and the leaking has stopped to date.
To all who took the time to respond, thanks.
First to Jatrax, it’s the Anderson 4 way valve
Second , it’s not leaking...it’s gradually filling the fresh water tank on the city fill position to the point of overflowing the fresh water tank into the coach
Third, it’s been on city fill only and we aren’t using any of the valve positions
4th, why who would you have to relieve pressure anytime you used other valve positions? Does that really make sense to you if the valve was manufactured properly?
5th, Dave Ponsler has really shook up the tree with Anderson and they are in the process of manufacturing an all brass valve that Dave will sign off on if it corrects the problem.
6th, We were in the same position as others when we brought up concerns about this before purchasing and were told it was “taken care of”.....right!
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You said “it’s not leaking...it’s gradually filling the fresh water tank on the city fill position to the point of overflowing the fresh water tank into the coach”. We have had the leaking into the fresh water tank when on city water. If it fills the tank it overflows out the hose fill plate on the passengers side to outside rather than into the coach. Is your FW tank overflow hose connected and working without leaking?
We had our 4 way valve replaced at the factory last year and seems to be working properly now.
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You said “it’s not leaking...it’s gradually filling the fresh water tank on the city fill position to the point of overflowing the fresh water tank into the coach”. We have had the leaking into the fresh water tank when on city water. If it fills the tank it overflows out the hose fill plate on the passengers side to outside rather than into the coach. Is your FW tank overflow hose connected and working without leaking?
We had our 4 way valve replaced at the factory last year and seems to be working properly now.
That is a good question to address when I work on the coach today....thanks.
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I just watched the 57 minute 2552 Walk Through, and Kyle points out that you CAN switch from city water to tank fill directly - no mention of removing hose and de-pressurizing before switching functions.
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I just watched the 57 minute 2552 Walk Through, and Kyle points out that you CAN switch from city water to tank fill directly - no mention of removing hose and de-pressurizing before switching functions.
Ideally that is how it should have worked but apparently it hastens the failure of the unit. As an aside, going through the machinations of de-pressurizing would certainly indicate the valves inherent design flaw and apparently Anderson agrees which was the point of my original post.
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Ideally that is how it should have worked but apparently it hastens the failure of the unit.
They do not all fail so it would seem that process is OK 'most' of the time. So some other factor comes into play that causes the failure on some units. Might be only when used above a certain pressure, or perhaps the o-rings lost lubrication or a bit of sharp edge in the valve that cuts the o-ring when the pressure is above a certain point. Or some other factor or combination. Regardless it seems that turning the valve with the pressure off reduces the likelihood of failure.
There is a bit in the manual about lubricating the o-rings with Dow Corning 111 food grade grease. Here is another link I found: Installation and testing (https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/manuals/Plumbing/UDC/Anderson/Anderson%20RV200Kantleak%20200RV%20INSTALLATION%20SERVICING%20and%20TEST%20INSTRUCTIONS.pdf)
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This discussion got me a little worried about the valve on my rig so I went out today to do a walk around and checked the valve while I was there. It was extremely tight and the amount of force required to turn it was surprising. This is with no water pressure as the rig is winterized.
So in the interests of preventative maintenance I decided to pull the cartridge and check the grease on the O-rings. The first two attempts failed but after checking the Anderson website I found a video that explains the process well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvEEYebwHg). Oddly on mine the little set screw they show was already loose and stripped so it could not be tightened. Anyway, i followed the video process and pulled the cartridge, I see no damage to any of the O-rings. I applied a liberal coat of Dow 111 food grade grease and put everything back together.
The valve now turns with hardly any force. From that I assume something was dry and the addition of grease has improved the situation. I will not know for sure until I de-winterize and can check while in operation. I plan on adding this to my annual maintenance list. I'm not sure it is needed but if it helps it was a simple 10 minute job once I figured it out.
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So where does one get Dow 111 food grade grease? tymote
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Amazon carries it in small tubes and other types of containers. Sounds like a good time to lubricate the O rings would be right after winterizing the system so the O rings are not dried out throughout the winter season. Like Jatrax said, that will be added to our winterizing procedures. That way it will be ready for the next season.
Gary
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Yep, Amazon :) I got a little 1.5 ounce tub. Enough to last me a lifetime I'm sure. Should also be available at any food service supplier, the same stuff is used for any equipment that is involved in food prep. Mixers and grinders and so on.
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tymote Thanks guys, ordering now!
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Today I pulled the valve cartridge out thinking it may need the grease mentioned above as it was a little stiff. I found it adequately lubricated.
I called the valve repair part distributor to inquire about the new brass valve replacement. I was told the new brass valve body and cartridge are undergoing tests. They anticipate it will be commercially available by the August time frame.
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Not only do the o-rings need lube, but also the disk that creates the indent and click at the four stops. Specifically, lube the side of the disk that is pressed against the plastic barrel by the little spring.
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I found it adequately lubricated.
There was plenty of grease in mine as well, but it was still incredibly tight to turn. I suspect on mine the grease was not spread around or at least one of the o-rings was missed. After I lubed mine it turns freely.
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Replaced the cartridge in my 4 way water valve, in addition to lubing the cartridge o rings I cleaned the inside of the valve block and lubed it with the little cotton ball on the wire. I applied a thin coating of the Dow 111 grease to the ball and then ran it back and forth inside the cylinder. I think this might help insure that the o rings have some lubricant left on them after the cartridge is pushed into the valve body. I found the cotton ball things in a craft store.
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fandj - that is a big OUCH. I had heard from Dave Ponder that the new version might be in May 1st - they are supposed to send me one. He did say they keep moving the date so he was not certain about it being in 5/1.
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I read long ago, a good grease for potable water valves is uncontaminated Vaseline. It does not last forever though. I use it on the drain valve of my fresh water tank and also the shower head water cut-off button.
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I read long ago, a good grease for potable water valves is uncontaminated Vaseline. It does not last forever though. I use it on the drain valve of my fresh water tank and also the shower head water cut-off button.
Ron, be careful with the use of Vaseline, since it is a petroleum it can breakdown o-rings (those made from rubber or plastic) and make them dry out and crack prematurely.
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Hi Barry,
I have heard of that but that has not been my personal experience in the applications I have used it in. Not just in those two places in our PC, but I also use Vasoline at home on the "O"-ring seal on our whole house bell jar filter. If I don't apply the Vasoline on the "O"-ring, I struggle hard to loosen the plastic bell jar when it is time to replace the cartridge. So far so good doing that since 1988.
But everyone needs to feel right with their decision to use it or not. If you don't feel right using Vasoline, then don't. I am just sharing an option that works for me.
Ron Dittmer
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While attempting to fill the fresh tank, I had the selector on "tank", but no water was flowing. I moved the selector half way between tank and normal and water began filling. In this position the onboard water pump would not pickup the water. Only after fully selecting "normal" the pump ran water as......well....normal. Its not a problem as I have water now but curious if any one else had this happen. It could indicate the valves are not lining up correctly and trouble is on the horizon.
Larry
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I fought the valve over a couple of hours. The "before" status was it could only be turned with the help of a pair of pliers. The "after" status was it could readily be turned by hand. 2o2
Helpful points:
The video of the process is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvEEYebwHg&list=LLne92PdZ9QkdpeAfT64CkeQ
The Dow 111 example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WDU1J8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(It doesn't mention food grade but references the FDA spec on the tube)
The Allen wrench needed is a 2mm hex head allen wrench.
The "push in and twist off" action of the cover was very difficult for me and required pliers. The valve would not come out until again pliers were used together with a twisting motion. The valve looked well greased but I made sure everything was well covered and the end results were good. I could not get the "push and twist" action putting on the cover to work but trying the cover without the spring showed me the valve was not all the way in. Further pushing and twisting the valve got it in further and the cover and spring could be pushed into place.
I appreciate the information provided earlier in this string and hope my experience will ease someone else's job. :)
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I made a stop in Elkhart today to get an initial oil change and have a few minor issues fixed before heading north to Alaska. Because I had a small leak when hooked to city water, Dave Ponsler had Doug replace the 4 way valve with one of the brand new brass valves. It took about an hour to install. It’s different- the new valve looks very substantial and only has three positions: Fill at 9 o’clock, winterize at 3 o’clock, and city/dry camp at 12 o’clock. This means you no longer have to switch from City to Normal !!!!!! So far the new valve seems to be working perfectly. If we have any problems I’ll be sure to post. All I can say is customer service at Phoenix is phenomenal.