Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarz272000 on March 15, 2018, 08:25:56 pm
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Very nice options can be priced out on a new PC. Price given is only 18.6% off list. Used to be around 25%. Yikes!!! I wonder if they negotiate now?
Still looking for my dream PC.
Ron
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Good news, that 'build a PC' thing was like playing with an erector set or Lincoln logs. Lot's of fun and it doesn't cost anything ;)
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For the curious interested in the changes in pricing and features since 2007....
In early 2007, MSRP on my 2350 was $88,351 including a $504 front bumper cover with fog lights, vinyl seats, No TVs, and a barrel chair instead of a Euro chair. Today when I plug in equivalent features and options on my rig as I had ordered it, MSRP is $126,683, an increase of $38,332 or 43.5%.
Though a big price difference, that was 11 years ago. Also understand that Phoenix made lots of improvements to the 2350 since 2007. Some things today like real leather seating, MCD shades, and protected battery compartment are so much better. A few changes might be debatable. Things improved or changed on a 2350 since 2007 that I can think of are....
- a more capable E350 chassis by Ford
- Euro chair replaced the bolted-down pivoting-&-sliding barrel chair with seat belt
- battery compartment is now shielded from the rear wheel well.
- 6V batteries in series replaced 12V batteries in parallel
- separate inverter and converter, replaced the 2000 watt Tripp-Lite combination unit
- added a splash & fire resistant mirror to the right of the stove
- nice kitchen and bathroom faucets replaced generic white fixtures
- frameless jalousie windows replaced framed horizontal-sliding windows
- electric awning replaced the manual box awning
- LED light strip under awning replaced a generic porch light
- LED lighting throughout the cabin replaced florescent lights
- compact fixed digital TV antenna replaced the crank-up analog/digital antenna
- relocated the fresh water tank more forward and center for improved weight distribution
- exterior storage drawer and trap door replaced a wide open storage compartment
- slam-to-latch latches replaced generic ones for the exterior storage compartments
- drawers inside dinette benches replaced wide open dinette bench storage
- deleted the spare tire and associated compartment to help with weight distribution
- deleted the wired phone jack system
- added the nice water control & winterizing system
- better quality MCD shades replaced the generic horizontal accordion ones with string tensioning
- bigger 7" back-up monitor replaced the 5" monitor
- bigger microwave with integrated ventilation replaced a smaller microwave with separate hood vent
- Blu-Ray/DVD player replaced the DVD player
- a heat register robbed one galley base cabinet drawer, but this might have been in-place for only a few years
- flush-mount stove with a hinged glass cover replaced the Corian-made flush-mount stove with Corian covers
- a round-ish stainless steel sink replaced the square-ish creme colored resin/composite sink
- sink cover is 2-piece, previously a single piece
- deleted the coffee maker mounted to the inside of the sink base cabinet door
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Good news, that 'build a PC' thing was like playing with an erector set or Lincoln logs. Lot's of fun and it doesn't cost anything ;)
Fun for sure, but also sobbering. :beg My fully loaded dream 2552, MSRP, 156k. Factory direct price, 125k. It’s only money right? :-D
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What price freedom to roam and inner peace? Worth every penny to us!
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Back to this forum after a several year absence. My wife and I are "getting closer" to buying a motorhome, and the PC 2552 *still* seems to be at the top of our list!
This thread, plus trying the latest iteration of "build your own" creates a couple of concerns...
#1: The "convenience package" - which mostly has things I want, also includes leather seats which I absolutely, positively DO NOT want. I'll save everybody the rant on the subject, but I *DETEST* leather seats with the fire of 10,000 suns. This exactly underlines why I don't like "packages" when buying a vehicle...
#2: Earlier post in this thread, seems to indicate no spare tire. Uh, no. That ain't happening either. Now it can be slung underneath like it was in the 70s for all I care, but any vehicle I own *WILL* have a spare tire, most ESPECIALLY one I'm driving in the boondocks!
#3: Jacks. The build your own feature now lists the rather expensive HWH jacks, and then jacks by Ford for "only" $900. What does this mean?
Please advise...
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1. PC just started to offer real leather. It used to be “fake” leather and it peeled and fell apart after heavy use. Almost every used PC I consider with the fake leather is starting or had peeled. I have sat in the cloth seats and the fabric is coarse and not very comfortable. Call PC and ask if you can get cloth. You should get a credit if you go with cloth. Just touch and feel the cloth to see if it is acceptable.
2. I am in total agreement on the spare. It seems they are trying to reduce weight as they redesigned the rear wall without a spare. Anyone ordering a PC without a spare might find it hard to sell in the future. I know I don’t consider PC that has no spare. Just too much risk for me. Other PC owners have said they were able to get a spare after they explained that they camp on their own and need a spare to not get stranded. They installed the old rear end design and charge a fee.
Ron
Still looking for a used PC 3100 or 2552 (nice to have dual a/c and electric bed slides).
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Hi Zorbo,
I agree with Ron/Sarz.
All you have to do is ask Phoenix for cloth and the savings from the change to cloth.
About the spare tire. I am not 100% certain, but I think you can pay an up-charge for a spare tire along with the rear wall with integrated spare tire compartment. They might have a few rear spare tire wall systems in stock for special requests. Again, the answer is to ask Phoenix.
Ron Dittmer
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Thank you both for the quick reply. I'd want cloth - if I didn't like it for some reason, there's always slip covers. Fake leather is only slightly better than real leather. Cloth, definitely cloth.
Did they really do away with the spare tire as standard, or just redesign how its mounted? I watched their videos, and it seems that the spare tire is still there, just externally mounted with a cover instead of in a compartment. That would make some sense. No tire makes zero sense!
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#3: Jacks. The build your own feature now lists the rather expensive HWH jacks, and then jacks by Ford for "only" $900. What does this mean?
Please advise...
I also would like to know the difference between the HWH jacks and the "Jacks by Ford".
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Did they really do away with the spare tire as standard, or just redesign how its mounted? I watched their videos, and it seems that the spare tire is still there, just externally mounted with a cover instead of in a compartment. That would make some sense. No tire makes zero sense!
Hi Zorba,
The spare tire is now an option, but it might be available only on certain models. Phoenix redesigned the fiberglass rear wall, deleting the integrated spare tire storage inside it. I too wonder how they store the spare tire. You would have to call Phoenix to get your answer. If you really liked the spare tire compartment integrated inside the rear wall as shown here, they might still have a few of those wall systems available for special requests.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2609/3743987921_e46722defd_z.jpg)
For reference, this is the rear wall system offered now.
(https://www.phoenixusarv.com/displayItems/images/Earl/2018_2351_3468/images/f3b32242bddc46a386bc31cac_large.jpg)
FWIW: I agree with you. I get great comfort carrying a spare tire when traveling far from home where we often travel to remote places. Even if I wasn't able to physically change the tire alone, with help I am equipped.
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We picked up our 2017 2552 in August. I had the spare tire option installed for $750. It is the old style rear cap with full size spare and wheel and is covered with the fiberglass cover as in older models. There is no room under the unit for a spare. If you do not tow a vehicle, you could buy or build a spare tire carrier mounted in the hitch or if you do tow a vehicle, you could carry a spare in it.
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I think it is important to note that the "build-a-PC" is not the final build sheet. Anything on the option list can be added / subtracted.
The spare tire is gone as a standard feature, but I was told they can get the old style rear panel with the tire carrier for an upcharge. I don't have a spare on mine and don't miss it but that's me.
The seats and indeed all of the seating / coverings can be changed. They have a swatch book you can pick from.
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Thanx for the clarifications. No spare tire is just stupid, no other way to put it.
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Thanx for the clarifications. No spare tire is just stupid, no other way to put it.
Bigger rigs don't have spare tires. I am downsizing from a 40' diesel pusher and there is no spare...none of them have spares. We full-timed in it for 10 years. That is why you have a "road service" plan such as Coach Net. Yes, you are at the mercy of buying a tire on the side of the road (I have done it), but the road service comes out and changes the tire. I have not yet seen a Phoenix Cruiser, but have seen many Class B's and C's and would think there is no way one could change a tire, especially an inside dual. Just my two cents. By the way, my wife and I are touring the PC plant on Monday, April 16. Looking forward to seeing the plant and an actual PC motorhome.
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We HOPE to pick up our 2552 on April 16. Two noticeable options are the addition of a spare tire and the lack of a slide-out. If your timing is good, you should be able to see what the optional spare tire looks like.
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No spare tire is just stupid, no other way to put it.
Not sure I agree with that. I'm not going to change a tire even if I had one, that's what AAA is for.
And in 45 years of driving I have had one flat tire. So the odds seem quite good to me. I don't miss it and the extra storage space is welcome.
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Class a tires are much larger than those on a PC, so it's logical to not have a spare and rely on road service. I recently experienced tire going flat (screw puncture) on long, deserted I-10 in west Texas. Would have taken hours for road service to respond - hot, windy, dusty ...). Having a spare was a blessing, and I will not ever be withought a spare. Good luck to those without one.
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No tire makes zero sense!
It is a matter of personal choice, there is an element of risk in almost everything we do. I have owned and driven rv’s, sports cars, classic cars, hot rods and towed trailers that did not have a spare. None of the 13 motorcycles that I owned had spare tires. My current RV does have a spare and I do prefer that. I like the look and feel of leather and find it is much easier to vacuum pet hair off of leather than fabric. It is a matter of preference, priorities, and economics; that is why we options.
Anyone who has owned or managed a business understands that you can’t make everyone happy even tho that may be your goal.
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The trend these days is providing NO spare tire. It has gotten very popular with regular cars & SUVs. They instead provide a Fix-A-Flat Slime kit of which a motor home is surely not the right application for that. The next best RV thing would be to carry a real tire repair kit where you can repair the right type of puncture in a tire on the RV by pulling out the nail and inserting a rope/plug, then fill with air and get to the nearest tire repair center.
I am glad to be carrying a spare tire on our PC and glad not to have used it. Now watch me get a flat after saying that last comment.
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The next best RV thing would be to carry a real tire repair kit where you can repair the right type of puncture in a tire on the RV by pulling out the nail and inserting a rope/plug
That's what I have Ron. Along with my Viair compressor. It will not help with a blow out but outside of that even with no spare I feel comfortable that I can get myself to a local tire shop. We rarely travel outside of the pacific northwest and there is a Les Schwab in most every town.
I certainly would not have taken the spare off it it came with one but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
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I remember reading somewhere here on the forum that Phoenix eliminated the spare to get the coach within weight specs for some Ford certification on extended frames. I don't know if that need for reduction applied only to the longer coaches or all of them... or even if it is correct. Just passing on the possible reasoning.
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I am not so helpless that I cannot change a stupid flat tire, inside or outside; nor do I want to be helpless because I don't have one! All it takes is a hydraulic jack, a good lug wrench, and some time. It usually takes far less time to deal with it than it is to have to call someone - if they can even be reached - and wait, wait, wait, wait. No thank you. Not being prepared is ridiculous, my daddy raised me better than that. I changed a tire one time about 50 miles west of Stovepipe Wells up in the Panamint range. I doubt there is cell service there even to this day. If the motorhome world has collectively become so millennial-ized that I can't get one with a spare tire, I'll just stay with fifth-wheels.
I had a flat tire on my car a couple of years ago. Without getting into the gory details, when it first happened, I wasn't sure if I'd lost a half shaft or just had a flat. I just happened to be forced to stop right by some highway workers. They told me that they "weren't allowed to assist me" - that was fine as I hadn't asked them to! While I was investigating the issue, they were wasting my time asking stupid questions: "What are you going to do?". "What am I going to do? I'm going to crawl halfway under this car and check the half shaft. When that's OK, I'll change the tire and be on my way." They were flabberghasted - I guess they were used to wimp Americans that seem to be the norm these days. Jeez, I have a nephew who can't even drive a stick shift.
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Zorba,
Your point is well received. Stating it more kindly, I too appreciate being equipped for, and am capable of changing a typical tire., as long as I have a spare with air, and jack to do the job with.
People say the E-series spare tire weighs 100 pounds. That sounds a lot heavier than I would have expected. I admit I have not yet handled one so I am not certain I can personally man-handle it at my age. But maybe the assistance from my wife or a good Samaritan can help me get the spare down and the flat up into the storage compartment.
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Just a comment on the spare tire issue. Several years ago we had a flat on our PC, called Good Sam and they sent a tow/repair truck right out. The truck driver-owner was a petite lady, 8-months pregnant. She did not want my help and quickly and apparently easily changed the tire and sent us on our way.
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Just a comment on the spare tire issue. Several years ago we had a flat on our PC, called Good Sam and they sent a tow/repair truck right out. The truck driver-owner was a petite lady, 8-months pregnant. She did not want my help and quickly and apparently easily changed the tire and sent us on our way.
Are you certain she was pregnant? Maybe she had a "spare tire" around her waist...it's quite common you know.
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There is another option Ive seen more than once. In the event of a front tire being gone you can remove one of your rear duals and place it on the front. In the event of a rear flat you can remove it and limp in on one rear. Granted you shouldn't be running 55 mph in this circumstance but somewhere common sense has to come into play. Myself I have a spare but I still call triple A to have it changed. However that being said, I've been in places like Death Valley where there was no cell reception of any kind and using this method would get you to safety. Also in the event your not able to change it out yourself there are very few places any more that someone won't come along who can give you a hand. All Im saying is not having a spare isn't the all to end all. There are work arounds. Lets be honest, if you were driving a 40 foot pusher just how many here could change out a rear dual? I damn sure couldn't without some air tools. So whats the difference in the case of our smaller rigs? For those that can ,do, for those that can't, it really shouldn't be an over thought concern.
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Zorba, your comment is not well-received. There are many ways to civilly express an opinion. I have found this forum to be a great place where people exchange well-found experience on many topics. FYI I am a former blue water sailor with more than 30K miles under my keel and fully understand the need to be self-sufficient. Language and style is important in persuading others to the validity of your POV.
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As for a class A pusher, if I were driving such a rig, it too would have a spare tire. If it takes air tools to realistically change one on such a rig, I'd carry them - there would certainly be enough room. But a PC isn't a class A pusher, a spare tire is required and expected - and apparently, quite available. Even if a person isn't capable of changing their own tire - age and various disabilities will do that to people - you still need a spare when AAA or whomever arrives. When they do. If you can get them.
Rotating tires around to make it back to civilization is a great plan B. Not so good as a plan A.
When I was young and stupid, I once had to call for help to come - 75 miles one way. Thank Goddess it wasn't further and I was actually able to reach someone. And yes, the situation was entirely my own fault. Never again.
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Zorba, your comment is not well-received.
Skin's a bit thin, isn't it?
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Well Zoooorby, the point in the pusher is still the same. Not having a spare is no way a deal breaker, people get by with out one all the time. IE , Many cars often high end don’t have any kind of spare.
Your comment on thin skinned is odd. He was kind actually, in no way acting thin skinned. Personally I looked at your posts as if the were posted by a Troll. Are they or just a tude you carry as so many do it seems. No matter really, just curious.
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Well Zoooorby, the point in the pusher is still the same. Not having a spare is no way a deal breaker, people get by with out one all the time. IE , Many cars often high end don’t have any kind of spare.
Your comment on thin skinned is odd. He was kind actually, in no way acting thin skinned. Personally I looked at your posts as if the were posted by a Troll. Are they or just a tude you carry as so many do it seems. No matter really, just curious.
And why would I care if any "high end" car, truck, bus, motor-home, or my uncle's '48 deuce and a half flatbed Dodge doesn't have a spare tire? Its still stupid.
But after careful thought, I think I'm done here - its time to "flounce out". Its obvious that this forum and I aren't a good fit. See ya!
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Well Zoooorby, the point in the pusher is still the same. Not having a spare is no way a deal breaker, people get by with out one all the time. IE , Many cars often high end don’t have any kind of spare.
Your comment on thin skinned is odd. He was kind actually, in no way acting thin skinned. Personally I looked at your posts as if the were posted by a Troll. Are they or just a tude you carry as so many do it seems. No matter really, just curious.
Seriously, name calling? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Everyone is allowed to voice that opinion in a friendly, reasonable manner. So, everybody get over it! Some of us want a spare. Isn't it awesome we have that option? Some want twin beds, some want a single bed, some want a pull out couch. They each get to choose and nobody calls them names or argues to try to force them to agree that "My way is the only way". My way is my way. I like it. I'll share my reasons for it then let you choose what works best for you.
If you dont agree with someone's opinion you can say so... Nicely! Otherwise, ignore the posting.
Oh, I don't care about my neighborly rating so anyone that reads this and gets upset can feel free to slam me if it helps you burn off your stress.
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Frazzled, sorry you saw it as name calling. I simply asked a question. When someone looks gives the impression all they wish to do is stir the pot and they only have very few posts it’s often some one trolling. I doubt there is a sight out there that’s doesn’t have it come across and in most cases there easy to spot just on their post count. There are also those that just have that kind of attitude, it’s in their makeup, not a bad day type of thing. If its just there tude or a bad , you’ll read right past it with out much of a thought.
On the spare
It’s not about having a spare, I’m glad I have one but I wouldn’t pass up a good vehicle like the PC just because it doesn’t have one. I don’t find it stupid either that they don’ include one. Only because I’m not in the inner circle understanding why. From a business or engineering stand point it may make good sense. I don’t know, but I do know it’s not a catostophic failure .
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I said I'd flounce out, and I will, but I'll say I'm not intentionally trolling. I just have small tolerance for stupidity. My BS detector has a very low threshold, I'm increasingly becoming a curmudgeon in my old age and don't particularly care. I've been advised that there are a number here who apparently do indeed have "thin skins", and I don't have much truck with that either. As I said, its pretty obvious that this forum and I aren't a good fit; the culture here seems to be more like facebook (which I avoid like the plague and "you" should too) what with "neighborly" ratings and other fluff. I could say a lot more just because I'm a curmudgeon, but why put everyone - including myself - through that?
I'm glad PC still offers the spare, and again: Its nothing that can't be fixed with some angle iron and a welder!
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Since angle iron and welder was brought up... too bad there isn't an option for a Real Rear bumper. I would opt for steel. Glass is way too flimsy and expensive to fix, and doesn't offer options for add ons(like tire carriers) or much protection. I see some coach manufacturers used to go with the molded rear ends but now have steel.
And I totally agree, PC needs to update what is standard equipment and what is an option. I know I would have spent a lot more money with them if I didn't have to guess at what they would do.
Doug
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zorba,no need to opt out, I asked if you were a troll, as you know typical to see when one has very few posts. No big deal, really, I’m just up front in asking.
In any event, stay or go, share your opinions or not.
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Biglegmax, I’ve often wonderd or wished maybe that these units had a real bumper
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If you look under the rear of PCs made since mid 2004 with the integrated spare tire, none have a real rear bumper. The rear wall with the "Look Of A Rear Bumper" is a simple decoration. A serious bumper with serious rear-end protection will add some serious weight. If you plan to add a durable rear bumper, make sure it does not hang below the fiberglass because you will risk damaging it over issues with ground clearance while exiting gas stations and such. Also be mindful when towing. You will likely need to add a hitch extension to avoid contact between your extended bumper and tow while taking sharp turns.
It seems the ideal add-on bumper protection would be something made of aluminum supporting the decorative rear bumper from behind. But the tail lights are there so it would require huge cutouts to clear them.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5335/17896320032_22445768b3_z.jpg)
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Ron , no doubt a good bumper would add some real weight. I guess seeing so many class C rigs with one has brought the thought. I have to admit, I don’t recall seeing one that looked good.
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Ron , no doubt a good bumper would add some real weight. I guess seeing so many class C rigs with one has brought the thought. I have to admit, I don’t recall seeing one that looked good.
I agree with you. They typically don't look very attractive. A very common one is the square aluminum tube with storage for the stinky slinky. They stick out and often are bent up, I think damaged when backing up blindly. That is why the back-up camera is very important along with a spotter. We gotta watch out for those tall standing log bumpers commonly used in national parks where the first point of impact would be our fake rear bumper.