Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarz272000 on January 26, 2018, 06:39:48 am
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Just tried to build a PC. Can’t get a quote on PC site. It requires sending request to PC and they contact for pricing. Not a fan.
Ron
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Checked it out and agree. I don't think it's a step in the right direction. I know most people want customizations and Phoenix can't list pricing for all options but having a price for the most common options gives customers a place to start. I'm not sure we would have a Phoenix if I had to go this route. I don't like going in blind with no set pricing.
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I agree too! It's really nice to be able to see what happens to the price by selecting various options. I know an exact price can't be had that way but it sure is nice to have some idea and you can eliminate some things right off the get go so you don't waste time with the final build. Plus you can fuss around with it at your leisure. I mentioned this to Kyle in an email with other questions when Earl responded to those he didn't address the online pricing issue I brought up.
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All you have to do is go to inventory and look at the 2018's,each one has an invoice showing what options that particular PC has and cost.
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Does this mean not everybody will pay the same price for the same motor home? Will each quote be different even if the options are the same? Can we negotiate on the price? Just some questions I'm wondering about.
Lynn ( 2400 on order, pricing on line made a big difference in my decision to buy.)
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Lynn
Very good observation. I hope the new PC experience does not turn into a new car experience. Yuck!
BTW I love your color choice of nightscape. Very classy and sharp looking.
Ron
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It is extremely helpful to know what MSRP is. You need that number to negotiate. Now you don't know anything up front before talking with the sales rep Earl.
I think Phoenix made a big mistake hiding MSRP. All automotive websites as well as other motor home manufactures post MSRP numbers. Considering the change, Phoenix should display...
"MSRP Starting At $00.000"
"MSRP Fully Featured $000,000" (with a picture showing full body paint and slide out)
"Call for the factory-direct savings price"
Many people will simply move on to other manufactures that post MSRP. I know I would if shopping for a new motor home. No price = No interest. Who would investigate without knowing what they are getting into?
I worry that Chuck and Jim are going to see sales drop to the floor now. The economy is great right now but Phoenix will miss out on it.
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I agree with ron.dittmer. Over and over I have seen this happen. A small company is sold and the new owners make changes that just defy understanding and injure loyalty.
Ever see that old movie "The Gauntlet" with Clint Eastwood? I feel like I am running the gauntlet every time I deal with someone selling something with four or six wheels. Phoenix was different and it will be interesting to see if we can use that statement in the present tense ----Phoenix is different?
I have tried to figure out the logic of making such a move as removing the pricing guides as to MSRP and "Our Phoenix Price". Maybe someone can come up with a logical thought as to why but I can't at this time.
Paul
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Transparency is the gateway to trust.
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I sure hope this is just a programming mistake on the web page. I have recommended Phoenix to several People, some of which have purchased one. I can not continue to do so when the web page does not even give you the price of any of the options. I would never shop at a store that did not list the price of an item for everyone to see. I do not think the new owners or their wives would go into a store to buy a bedspread when they needed to ask the sales person what the price is for each one. I bet they would walk out of the store without purchasing anything. I hope they correct this before it gets out of hand.
pyho pyho pyho
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To be honest the website is rather messed up and always has been. There are dead links, text that should be a link but is not, random bits of text on pages that make no sense and so on. While it is possible they removed the pricing because they do not want to show it I think it might also be possible they needed to update that part of the website or it was non-functional in some way and they felt it better to turn it off.
I may be wrong but I thought I was told that the same functionality was part of their order system. I remember Earl telling me that you could not save a coach configuration and go back and edit it later, you had to start all over again. I might have that wrong but I do know the system they were using was not very user friendly.
So, (maybe), this is a sign of progress instead? Just speculating of course.
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I would never shop at a store that did not list the price of an item for everyone to see. I do not think the new owners or their wives would go into a store to buy a bedspread when they needed to ask the sales person what the price is for each one. I bet they would walk out of the store without purchasing anything
pyho pyho pyho
You are so right Tom.
This reminds me of my experience with jewelry. I am not made of money so such luxury is limited, even by my wife Irene's standards.
Many years ago we had in our area a store chain called Service Merchandise. They had an exceptional jewelry department with everything quite nice and reasonably priced considering the quality of the item, with regular, sale, and clearance items all priced clearly. I was comfortable buying jewelry there. It was so much better than buying at other affordable places like Sears & Walmart. Though I paid a lot more, I did get a "Whole Lot More".
When Service Merchandise went out of business, I tried to find an equivalent. I gave up after stepping into Jewelry store chains like Helzberg, Jared, and Zales, also shopping mall stores not posting prices. They made me feel like a cheapskate when asking prices. Then there was the matter of them peeling me up off the floor after they answered the question. When I'd come to, I'd kindly thank them for their time and head back to my rusted-out Toyota Corolla.
Hence... No Price... No Interest.
That goes for everything from houses to motor homes, cars, electronics, all the way down to items in a garage sale. That is just how I feel about it. Given Phoenix's website today, if I were shopping for a new motor home, naturally Phoenix would not be on my list. And so I cannot even recommend Phoenix to other people in the same manner I used to. I am nearly clammed-up.
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well that is disappointing. I went online put the selections in and came out with a price but of course some things I wanted and got were not in the online pricing. We're added a bit at a time... The priced items were added then there was a built in discount, no idea what it was and the price came up. Progress may need to go a little further down the path.
GOOD TO SEE. THE UPDATE
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Look at current inventory! List and selling price are there!
As of now... It appears selling price is 74% of list price.
No idea if you can negotiate further.
Example sale pricing from current inventory:
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As of now... It appears selling price is 74% of list price. No idea if you can negotiate further.
Thanks for sharing that. That data should be posted clearly so people would not be deterred by posted MSRP pricing alone.
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I am sure one of the driving reasons to not post prices is to force the potential shopper to engage with a sales person at PC. Like others that is one huge reason I liked the factory direct model because you do not have to "nickel and dime" with a sales person like purchasing a car and sales person having to check with his/her sales manager. My bet is PC is looking at getting back into the dealer game and do not want to advertise what costs might be? Unit output is the name of the game and getting units out the door and onto dealer lots sure ups the unit numbers.
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I remember Earl telling me that you could not save a coach configuration and go back and edit it later, you had to start all over again. I might have that wrong but I do know the system they were using was not very user friendly.
This is correct. I learned about it when Earl was upset I didn't get back to him the same day on a build list as it turned out he couldn't save it and would have to re-enter it manually the next day.
The process burned me as on the final agreed to change to something mid-list I failed to review the whole build list again, just checking the one last item I asked to be changed. Turned out that my request for slider windows (the last item on the list) had been dropped and so the coach was built with the standard windows.
It has always been hard for me to picture a system where you couldn't keep a current copy of a build list that's being reviewed/negotiated. I mentioned this and the problem it caused me to Jim Byrnes at the Rally.
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I suspect buying a motorhome is the second largest purchase most buyers will make with their home being the first largest.
Isn't it a shame that pricing is like buying a pizza? What coupon do you have today? It is not just Phoenix but he whole industry apparently. No wonder people look on average for such a long time before committing to buy.
Paul
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I am hoping that this is a temporary change implemented prior to a new new pricing system. MSRP is really not the important number to me, what you will actually sell it for is the number I want. Negotiation and price haggling is the old way of doing business and not the way of the future. Inflated "suggested retail price" followed by huge discounts doesn't fool an educated consumer. I like the stores, vehicle dealerships, and businesses where the price you see posted is the price you pay.
I agree 100% that the pricing structure for building a new Phoenix should be posted on the website, if that doesn't occur, time will prove it to be a huge mistake. It is a boom time for the rv industry but that will change, when it does the companies with sound business practices and quality products will be the ones that survive.
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All of the RV's, campers, etc. I have owned or used over the years were always from previous owners. When the wife and I decided in 2015 to go new for once we could have found a RV similar to the PC 2910 that would have worked for us at a much less expensive price and much closer to home. We spent a year searching and comparing B+ units in the 30 ft range and always came back to the PC because we could alter the options online and get an estimate of what it would cost and make comparisons. I didn't expect a quoted price because I realized everything fluctuated but getting close was good enough. The BIGGEST factor in choosing the 2910T over others, even though we spent about 25K more, was the transparency in the on-line pricing and the video's. When Earl or Kyle put out a floor model that was close to what we wanted I didn't hesitate to call and reserve it sight unseen other than the pictures and pricing posted online. I didn't have the confidence to do that with any other manufacturer or dealer. Our area is surrounded with RV dealerships and getting the runaround from salesmen really put us off. Since buying out PC I have directed several people to their web page because of the configurable pricing options options and helpful videos. If this isn't temporary I do believe they have taken a step backwards.
George S.
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That is one configuration. I recall going back and forth clicking full body paint vs lower body, basic cabinets vs cherry and so on. Did we need that surround sound system... No. Did we want it... Yes. Just picking which model we wanted had me running all kinds of comparisons. So back and forth I went with numbers until we were satisfied. THEN we went to the sales rep. Thank goodness we had done the upfront work and were somewhat committed to the Phoenix because the old rep (gone just after we purchased) was unresponsive on the phone and email, unhelpful once I finally got him on the phone, and downright rude when we got to the factory to discuss the purchase. We love our Phoenix but the only part of the sales experience that was good was being able to plan out our rig ahead of time with the "pricing tool". I know Earl is nothing like that but there is a limit to the number of inquiries that he'll be able to handle in a timely manner, especially during shows. Slow responses will turn off customers.
If the purpose of the change is to capture potential customer data for follow up (when the sales team isn't slammed), I suggest putting the pricing back the way it was and offering an opt-in to give contact info to get a full color brochure mailed out. We picked up our brochure at a show and it was seriously tattered by the time we were ready to buy. I'm computer savvy and know it is online but I still like to hold that paper while I'm thinking and planning. I carry brochures and potential buyers are always excited to get one. Many people would be willing to give info to get that brochure. If Phoenix goes this route, I further suggest a guarantee that personal information will not be shared, sold, or otherwise distributed and will be used in house by Phoenix only.
There can be an optional SHORT survey asking interest level, do you want contact, etc. With promise of no hard sales pitches - " we are here to help you plan YOUR perfect motorhome" or RV or some such. Because THAT'S what they do so well.
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I do wonder if part of the reason for the change is that Phoenix has always maintained low website costs, and now they digress further. I think their website uses much of their paper brochure which has been used since 2015. If they can afford it, they should increase their budget to maintain it better. Their website is a critical promotional tool considering PCs can't be found at dealers. Adding back in the pricing tool makes the website extremely informative for people who want to take next steps.
It seems Phoenix set up their website for a maintenance-free arrangement.
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Here is the answer from Jim Byrnes.
. As you noticed the pricing tool is down on the website, but this isn't permanent and it isn't a new strategic direction. We are simply making some changes/updates to the site. We know that this is a valuable tool to our perspective customers and forum members and we hope to have this back up and running soon. Thanks for your patience and as I said I really appreciate you reaching out.
All the best!
Jim
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Here is the answer from Jim Byrnes.
. As you noticed the pricing tool is down on the website, but this isn't permanent and it isn't a new strategic direction. We are simply making some changes/updates to the site. We know that this is a valuable tool to our perspective customers and forum members and we hope to have this back up and running soon. Thanks for your patience and as I said I really appreciate you reaching out.
All the best!
Jim
That is good to hear. I will be waiting until their website is up and running properly until I refer people to it again.
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Maybe it will be an amazing, modern, new site!! :-D :-D
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Perhaps Jim would be open to some input from PC owners before making changes. Since the web site is being upgraded why not create chat sessions and bounce around ideas. That way this online pricing change and the associated sour taste can be avoided.
Ron
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Bouncing ideas, feedback and input are all good, however, it doesn't guarantee that everyone will be happy. Just check our forum posts. I doubt if there is one topic we all agree on so it's guaranteed that someone will feel they weren't listened to. I once took over a position from someone that felt his way was the only way. He liked to "suggest" how things should be done. I chose not to follow his advice once and he became extremely upset and told me "When I make a suggestion, I expect it to be followed!" That's not a suggestion, that's a command.
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Actually I thought the current website was quite good before the pricing tool when down. As with all things, there was room for improvement. You can never get an interactive website perfect for everyone and keep it that way without throwing more money at it.
I thought the pricing feature was one of a kind in the RV industry. I never stumbled on another RV website with such a pricing feature. I don't think it was ever meant for placing orders because there is no provision to make special deviations.
Back in 2007 in the days of a dealer network and before the interactive website, I worked out the details making my own work order (a simple Word document) with our model 2350, our options, our deviations and MRSP total. I got MSRP pricing from a paper packet pricing sheet and maintained the bottom line as we changed our mind on things before placing our order. When it came time to place our order, I told the dealer to use my document to fill in his build sheet. Then I approved it before he handed it off to Phoenix. I highly recommend doing that to assure you get everything you expect.
The MSRP discount calculation was very simple then. The PC dealer I worked with told me to take the total MSRP and divide it by 1.3, then minus $800 (an additional dealer discount), then subtract dealer prep since I was picking up the rig at the factory. It was very easy managing costs calculating it myself.
I have MSRP price sheets for 2008 & 2010 and sales brochures since 2007 in soft copy form if anyone is interested. Phoenix updated their sales brochure every few years. They would skip at least one year, sometimes two. The current sales brochure dates back to 2015. Request what interests you via a private message and BE SURE to include your email address.
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The nice thing about new owners is PC has a future. A friend didn't buy a PC because he was afraid it would become an orphan. Born Free, Chinook, and Big foot, quality builders, are gone. If PC raises prices like the Airstream Interstate, that would hurt. The competitive price is what sold me, without the on line pricing I may not have made that call to Earl.
Lynn
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As of now... It appears selling price is 74% of list price. No idea if you can negotiate further.
Thanks for sharing that. That data should be posted clearly so people would not be deterred by posted MSRP pricing alone.
It is Ron... MSRP and selling price. EVERY new unit in inventory has their "window sticker" they are posted (even sold PC's on their inventory page have one).
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I sure hope PC doesn't sell through dealers, the final cost to buyers will go up. Most RV dealers are not good to work with. RV dealer sales people know very little about RVs. Earl knows his product very well, he's not just a salesman, he's part of the company. When buying factory direct, the on line pricing is essential.
Lynn
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I agree about the dealers, I spent enough time on dealer lots to learn that I would rather deal with Phoenix.
I do wonder if Phoenix might consider a store, shop or office on the west coast though. Sure would make it a shorter drive for a lot of us. I am considering a trip to the factory to get the new slide seals installed but almost 3,000 miles one way is a big trip.
Maybe a sales office / showroom with a repair shop? I wonder if that would be profitable.
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I sure hope PC doesn't sell through dealers, the final cost to buyers will go up. Most RV dealers are not good to work with. RV dealer sales people know very little about RVs. Earl knows his product very well, he's not just a salesman, he's part of the company. When buying factory direct, the on line pricing is essential.
Lynn
Very much agree. Earl and Kyle were very easy to deal with. Need to add Carol in there too. I had a problem where for whatever reason the rear 2x2 window shattered after a couple of months. Found it one weekend when I went out to get ready for a short trip. Called her up and had a new replacement in a week. Super!
George S.
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I had a problem where for whatever reason the rear 2x2 window shattered after a couple of months. Found it one weekend when I went out to get ready for a short trip. George S.
I recall someone with a 2350 Sprinter had their rear window shatter twice while towing their Jeep Wrangler with aggressive knobby tires. Front fenders on Wranglers don't cover enough of the front of their front tires. Rocks get lodged in between the knobby tire treads, then get ejected forward toward the back of the PC breaking the window. It's rare, but it happens. Fortunately they have thermal windows and the inner pane remained okay in both incidents, so they still had a window for the remainder of the trip.
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Yes, I can understand where tires from a toad picking up gravel could be an issue. My trailer toad is equipped with fenders anyway. In my case I have a hard stand to the right of my lower garage where I have power, water and sewer connections when parked at the house. It had been parked since using it the prior weekend and I was checking tire pressure and when I walked around the rear I saw pieces of glass on the ground, looked up and saw the rear window in a thousand pieces and most still hanging by the film. Couldn't see a firm reason for the window breaking other than maybe it wasn't tightened the same amount all around or possibly it wasn't centered in the opening causing a bind from one side. Many decades ago when I built houses I hung many a window and door and proper clearance and shimming was necessary to prevent problems as settling occured. Don't know for sure if the same rules apply to a RV. Anyway when I installed the replacement I made sure it only contacted the rough-in on top with the 2 pads included and torqued it evenly all around. So far so good. (Huh, got a little off topic I think)
George S.