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Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Volkemon on December 16, 2017, 06:48:38 pm

Title: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on December 16, 2017, 06:48:38 pm
Howdy!

Well, the Fiamma awning that came on our 2350 does not meet our needs. We need an all weather setup that wont puddle water.

Any suggestions? I prefer manual operation, but power with an easy manual backup is cool.  :-D

I do not mind adding anchors on the coach lower body, but will also be using the awning in a 'carport' style - legs to ground. The add-a-room options make Mrs V happy, and we might have a smartcar for a toad soon to drive in.  2o2
 

Thanks!
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on December 19, 2017, 03:30:57 am
As per the FIAMMA instructions try adjusting the left to right angle of the awning so that the water drains to one side by making one leg shorter. Also be sure to install the center support strut so it does not sag in the middle.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on December 19, 2017, 09:07:33 am
CalCruiser provided good advise on set-up.

Our 2007 box awning is surely not an easy push-button operation, but it does work well when attaching the lower end of the poles to the motor home.  I never tried using the PC-provided stakes and ropes.  When familiar with the awning, it takes about 5 minutes to set up.

Being you have a 2006, your main entry door swings freely and will hit the awning pole when attached to the motor home.  I came up with a door stop utilizing a rope to resolve that, one of many little extras I did detailed HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,8.0.html).  Many of the extras primarily benefit the older PCs.  Newer PCs have some of them implemented in one form or another.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on December 20, 2017, 05:44:55 am
As per the FIAMMA instructions try adjusting the left to right angle of the awning so that the water drains to one side by making one leg shorter. Also be sure to install the center support strut so it does not sag in the middle.

Hm... read the instructions... good idea!  roflol  I thought I was familiar with awnings from owning a 5th wheel, but never had one this style. Will do tonight!

I am familiar with angling the awning to one side to drain water, I used to use my 5th wheel awning as my carport for the beetle. Here in FL sudden downpours can rip an awning right off if not angled to drain puddles.

CalCruiser provided good advise on set-up.

Our 2007 box awning is surely not an easy push-button operation, but it does work well when attaching the lower end of the poles to the motor home.  I never tried using the PC-provided stakes and ropes.  When familiar with the awning, it takes about 5 minutes to set up.

Being you have a 2006, your main entry door swings freely and will hit the awning pole when attached to the motor home.  I came up with a door stop utilizing a rope to resolve that, one of many little extras I did detailed HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,8.0.html).  Many of the extras primarily benefit the older PCs.  Newer PCs have some of them implemented in one form or another.

Hm... AFAIK, we have no ropes/stakes etc. There are two legs that come down from the awning, but no sockets on the coach. (available at ~$40 each)
The door hitting the rail is no big deal, with the door that close to the edge of the awning any style will have that problem.

The problem I have is that even fully extended, the awning has 'dips' in the fabric that will puddle water. No matter what angle I put the legs at. :( And i installed the center bar, tensioned it the best I could. Made little difference.

But, as CalCruiser mentioned... INSTRUCTIONS.  (exactly)  Maybe I should read them before spending $1K+ for a whole new setup.

Thanks again. Sometimes I miss the obvious looking at details.  :lol
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on December 20, 2017, 09:14:02 am
Ok, found out why the awning does not work well for water draining..
 
From the manual:
Quote
ATTENTION: We remind you that the awning is designed
to protect from the sun, and not from rain, wind or snow.
In these cases, we recommend to roll it up!

  >( This is a SUN SHADE only.  >(

I need that awning for shelter when the weather is BAD, not good.  roflol
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on December 20, 2017, 09:53:38 am

You MUST GET those two lower mounting brackets.  $40 each is ridiculous.  Look on Ebay and even call the factory.  Phoenix supports their older PC customers and might have a pair of lower mounting in-stock at a reasonable price.

I cannot imagine using the awning without those lower mounting brackets.  Ropes and stakes is NOT the solution.

When the lower end of the poles are mounted to the house via those missing brackets, and you install the center support, you can tighten up the awning eliminating the slack you complain about.

You have a decent awning.  Just get what you need to make it right.  Do you have the center pole?  It should be stored in the main entry door door frame, opposite the crank.

We had our awning open during heavy rains.  It works fine.  As CalCruiser said, angle the rear downward so the water runs off.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: fandj on December 20, 2017, 12:18:00 pm
On a previous camping trailer we had a Fiamma awning.  Over the center horizontal support we split a pool noodle and placed over the support.  This reduced the fabric sag and improved the rain water drainage.  We used the noodle in addition to dropping one corner to enhance drainage.  If we were going to be in a location for a few days we used the legs with a strap to tie the the front of the awning down. Where the ends of the straps were anchored we used springs to attach to the stakes to reduce shock loads.

Some of our friends with the same type awning  used adjustable painter poles along each side edge and used a strap from side to side to further assist in reducing the chance the awning would become airborne. The painter pole ends were placed in the camper awning retraction assembly and in the front awning retainer. Some with this tie down method reported the awnings withstood 60+ mph winds.  Thankfully we never had to test ours under these conditions.  I have seen too many awnings either completely torn off or folded across the top of the camper so I was paranoid.

With our current PC with the electric retractable unit we typically retract it if there is a chance of wind gust or storms particularly if we are away and/or at night.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on December 21, 2017, 05:51:49 am
OK, read the instructions, but not much help. After working the awning for a while, I did learn how to tension the fabric better.
I was going fully extended like the conventional (spring tube??) awnings I am used to. Evidently, it works better to extend a box awning fully, then retract the canvas until the box members JUST start to collapse. This takes the 'dips' and slack out of the awning, and makes water run off readily. YAAAAY!!! 

Pool noodle on the center brace is a great idea!  I found out the upper bracket for that brace on my coach has been repaired with a nail, and needs to be replaced. Serviceable for now, however.

Today will be learning how to hang tapestries and camo netting on the coach and awning to make our festival home. Mrs V will be pleased.  (cheer)

Thanks for the guidance.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 15, 2019, 06:38:02 am
OK... The Fiamma awning was torn by a gust of wind. Really wont miss the POS, never been happy with it. Now a new awning is immediate.  (exactly)


2006 model 2350. I want to put a 14 (?) foot awning on it. Anyone have good sugg's ? Anything/brands to avoid? First time buying an awning.

 tymote
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: hutch42 on April 15, 2019, 03:44:34 pm
OK... The Fiamma awning was torn by a gust of wind. Really wont miss the POS, never been happy with it. Now a new awning is immediate.  (exactly)


2006 model 2350. I want to put a 14 (?) foot awning on it. Anyone have good sugg's ? Anything/brands to avoid? First time buying an awning.

 tymote

I would avoid the Colorado Carefree Awnings.  They have been the biggest repair item on the Class B and small Class C's at Winnebago.  Fabric delamination, fabric tears, not rolling up evenly, hydraulic struts failing, stripped gears and motor failures.  The plus side is that the company has been very responsive in replacing items under warranty.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: TNcanuck on April 15, 2019, 03:53:55 pm
Not sure how long the awning is on our 2004 2350 but it does not extend all the way to the rear of the coach. The previous owner installed the awning brackets to the side of the coach but unfortunately because of that I cannot use the latch to hold up the storage compartment door. It’s a pain in the butt (or should I say head) working around the door now. Something to keep in mind if you’re planning to add the brackets.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 15, 2019, 05:10:13 pm


I would avoid the Colorado Carefree Awnings.  They have been the biggest repair item on the Class B and small Class C's at Winnebago.  Fabric delamination, fabric tears, not rolling up evenly, hydraulic struts failing, stripped gears and motor failures.  The plus side is that the company has been very responsive in replacing items under warranty.

Thank You Sir!   
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 15, 2019, 05:17:32 pm
Not sure how long the awning is on our 2004 2350 but it does not extend all the way to the rear of the coach. The previous owner installed the awning brackets to the side of the coach but unfortunately because of that I cannot use the latch to hold up the storage compartment door. It’s a pain in the butt (or should I say head) working around the door now. Something to keep in mind if you’re planning to add the brackets.

OW!  Points to ponder for sure! (exactly)  Looks like a 12 foot one would do that on mine.

There is a 13 foot one on currently , with 12 inches to spare in the back, and 3 in front.      Hoping to get a 14 footer on there and get an external room for it.  2o2
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: TNcanuck on April 15, 2019, 06:29:54 pm
Yeah, I’m thinking mine is 12 feet. Looks like there’s 2 more feet to spare behind it. You can see the bracket just above the storage door.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Cropduster on April 15, 2019, 08:15:42 pm
We need an all weather setup that wont puddle water.

One side of the canopy is dropped to allow for water drainage.  In addition, both side of the awning are secured with ropes/stakes.  This technique has held up through some particularly impressive rainfall.  On one trip I placed the awning's manual crank arm on top of a table in order to function as a support and raise the center of the canopy by a small amount. Which helped with draining the water.  A kludge which worked.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 15, 2019, 10:39:31 pm
Our 2007 2350 back in the day, the 12' box awning had an MSRP of $833, the 14' box awning was just $91 more which we opted for.  I like it for the obvious reason that bigger is better, but even more specifically, it protects the window by our bed from sun and rain, and also the outdoor storage compartment.  I often open the awning just shy of interfering with the entry door which is roughly 15".  Opening it just that much without messing with the poles offers quick & easy protection from sun and windless rain.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/6172/6173443001_62ac4d1db9_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/8466/28537360243_f744551e5e_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on April 16, 2019, 03:56:48 am
Fiamma USA in Orlando FL sells replacement parts, possibly  including multiple fabric colors, as shown on the parts diagrams.

The p/n label is  inside near the legs . Click on a p/n below to get the parts list and diagram for your F45 model.

https://www.fiammausa.com/en/spare-parts/fiammastore-1476298585/winch-awnings-for-wall-installation-2007488025
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 16, 2019, 04:40:52 am
Fiamma USA in Orlando FL sells replacement parts, possibly  including multiple fabric colors, as shown on the parts diagrams.

The p/n label is  inside near the legs . Click on a p/n below to get the parts list and diagram for your F45 model.

https://www.fiammausa.com/en/spare-parts/fiammastore-1476298585/winch-awnings-for-wall-installation-2007488025

I have ordered parts there before. :) 

The Fiamma shop in Orlando was infamous here a while back because of an ex-employee shooting up the place in a revenge attack.  :-[

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-fiamma-shooting-orlando-20180314-story.html



But honestly, that awning was not up to the task. I have no wish for something that flimsy again. 
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 16, 2019, 04:44:37 am
Our 2007 2350 back in the day, the 12' box awning had an MSRP of $833, the 14' box awning was just $91 more which we opted for.  I like it for the obvious reason that bigger is better, but even more specifically, it protects the window by our bed from sun and rain, and also the outdoor storage compartment.  I often open the awning just shy of interfering with the entry door which is roughly 15".  Opening it just that much without messing with the poles offers quick & easy protection from sun and windless rain.


Is that a fiamma also? Ours measured about 13' and looks like it has more room to the back than yours. Ours measures 15" from the end of the awning box to the seam on the coach.  5" to the front.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 16, 2019, 04:53:13 am
We need an all weather setup that wont puddle water.

One side of the canopy is dropped to allow for water drainage.  In addition, both side of the awning are secured with ropes/stakes.  This technique has held up through some particularly impressive rainfall.  On one trip I placed the awning's manual crank arm on top of a table in order to function as a support and raise the center of the canopy by a small amount. Which helped with draining the water.  A kludge which worked.

Sure!   

See my NYE 2017 pic post - heavy tilt and rope anchoring both ends.   https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3031.0


IT is MUCH better than nothing, for sure.  But... IMO.... not close to the best awning for our needs. I would like a conventional style awning so we can have one of the 'add a room' kits on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Lippert-Components-362229-Solera-Family/dp/B01MY48Z25


EDIT - Maybe not that one!! Look at those horrible reviews...  :beg  I saw the Lippert name and gave credit... ASSumed it was OK..  (nod)

Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 16, 2019, 05:07:10 am
Yeah, I’m thinking mine is 12 feet. Looks like there’s 2 more feet to spare behind it. You can see the bracket just above the storage door.

You pay shipping and I will give you a 13 (?) footer that just needs fabric.   ;) 

 Might be cheaper to drive down and get it, however.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 16, 2019, 09:17:23 am
Our 2007 2350 back in the day, the 12' box awning had an MSRP of $833, the 14' box awning was just $91 more which we opted for.  I like it for the obvious reason that bigger is better, but even more specifically, it protects the window by our bed from sun and rain, and also the outdoor storage compartment.  I often open the awning just shy of interfering with the entry door which is roughly 15".  Opening it just that much without messing with the poles offers quick & easy protection from sun and windless rain.


Is that a fiamma also? Ours measured about 13' and looks like it has more room to the back than yours. Ours measures 15" from the end of the awning box to the seam on the coach.  5" to the front.
Yes, I believe our box awning is a Fiamma.

The one thing the Fiamma box awning has going for it is the sleek look when closed up.  But outside of that, I think the current-day power awning with the tracks is the one to consider.

As for us, if or when the day comes to replace the material, I will do that to retain "the look".  Our particular box awning is integrated into the full body paint job.  It looks too good to discard.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: TNcanuck on April 16, 2019, 09:47:36 am
Yeah, I’m thinking mine is 12 feet. Looks like there’s 2 more feet to spare behind it. You can see the bracket just above the storage door.

You pay shipping and I will give you a 13 (?) footer that just needs fabric.   ;) 

 Might be cheaper to drive down and get it, however.

It might be worth it just to be able to move that damn bracket!!
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 16, 2019, 10:07:11 am
Yeah, I’m thinking mine is 12 feet. Looks like there’s 2 more feet to spare behind it. You can see the bracket just above the storage door.

You pay shipping and I will give you a 13 (?) footer that just needs fabric.   ;) 

 Might be cheaper to drive down and get it, however.

It might be worth it just to be able to move that damn bracket!!

I bet.   I like the idea that the parts get used,. CalCruiser managed to replace a broken mirror head on his with the parts off mine.  2o2

I am 10 miles away from Exit 173 on i95 here in Florida.   

Not sure how it would ship, prolly have to be truck freight? Maybe too long for that even. Once I remove it maybe it will be obvious how it breaks down to 'shippable' size pieces.

We have a camper-friendly front yard if you do come down.   :-D  Heck, get the replacement fabric beforehand and we might make it an install party.   :)(:

*  Hmmm..... I might even be able to use the 12 footer on my trailer. Reduce, reuse, recycle! 
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on April 16, 2019, 11:13:11 am
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-605yZMnRICU/UDmXCbgbmmI/AAAAAAAAIG0/6I7JpCmq4MI/s1600/DSC03012.JPG)
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 16, 2019, 11:55:06 am
Yeah, I’m thinking mine is 12 feet. Looks like there’s 2 more feet to spare behind it. You can see the bracket just above the storage door.

You pay shipping and I will give you a 13 (?) footer that just needs fabric.   ;) 

 Might be cheaper to drive down and get it, however.

It might be worth it just to be able to move that damn bracket!!
I didn't understand what you meant by "That Dang Bracket".

Now I get it.  What a goofy thing you have there, mounting the bottom of the awning pole just above the storage door like that.

But don't do exactly what I did and mount the brackets farther to the sides.  I mounted the brackets below floor level which is very good.  But sideways not so much.  I thought it would be good to have the poles angled "down-and-out" to increase the space under the awning and to improve sideways stability, which it did.  But it came at an inconvenience.  In my picture, draw a virtual vertical line from the boxed awning corners to the brackets and note how the brackets are spread farther outward.  The result is that it's hard to clip the poles in at that angle.  It works, but I do wrestle at bit with it.  My idea in concept was good, but a few less inches skewed would be much better.  The tighter fit also eliminates any rattling from a breeze, but still, if I could do it a second time, I would go out to the side half as much as I did.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/6172/6173443001_62ac4d1db9_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: TNcanuck on April 16, 2019, 01:44:00 pm
Ron, when I zoomed in on your photo I noticed the brackets were mounted outboard and not directly vertical with the end of the awning. Yes, I bet that can be a challenge getting the supports in them!

Because of where that bracket is located on mine I cannot lift the door up so that the latch can hold it open because the door hits the bracket first. I have to either wrestle with the door while getting things in or out or have Cheryl hold it up for me. Not convenient at all.

By the way, I’m very envious of the fact that you can store your rig in your garage. I wish!!
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: BlueBlaze on April 17, 2019, 07:37:47 pm
I was about ready to throw out my Fiamma, too, until I tried adding the side-mount brackets that Ron is talking about.  Even at $40, it was worth the experiment.  What a difference!

I still don't trust it if I know a storm is coming, but then, I wouldn't trust any awning in a storm.  At least now I've got a sun shade.  A 10 mph gust used to send it flying. 

Just be sure to back the brackets on the other side of the fiberglass with something stout, like a piece of aluminum angle.

Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 18, 2019, 06:29:59 am
Phoenix handed our 2007 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 to us with the Fiamma brackets in the big bag with documentation and touch-up paint.  They also included ropes and stakes, seemingly Phoenix's recommended method.  Knowing myself, I would never rope-&-stake-down the awning, so I spray-painted the brackets a matching gray color and mounted them.  I feel utilizing the brackets is the right method for the Fiamma awning.  Stakes and poles may work, but not friendly to work with.

As far as "wind" is concerned.  With the brackets mounted below floor level, the poles extend out very nicely and provide excellent stability.  VERY importantly, ALWAYS use the extra center support.  That extra support allows you to tighten-up the fabric so the awning is very stable in breezy weather.

I wonder if the 12 foot awning did not include a center support.  To you with the 12 foot awning, do you have one?    Our 14 foot Fiamma, the center support is stored inside the entry door jamb, opposite the awning crank.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: TNcanuck on April 18, 2019, 09:56:50 am
Yes, we have a center support for our awning.

I have set up the support legs both ways, on the ground and in the brackets. We have to be careful opening the cabin door because if opened too far it hits the support. Also the door won’t stay open without using a bungee cord to keep it in place.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 18, 2019, 12:21:44 pm
I had the center support, but it didnt really seem to do much.  Even less when I forgot it was in there,  :beg , rolled up the awning until SNAP I had a two piece center support.  >(

Strong winch on the fabric. I honestly did not notice the extra effort, if any, it took to snap the brace.

Dont get me wrong, if I were shopping for a lightweight, economical sunshade for an RV this would fit the bill. I am looking for a much more robust product, however. 

And now that the cover wont close because of the torn fabric...removal may go on this weekend.  Lucky for me we only had 14 miles to go from the last party to home. Otherwise i would have resorted to field expedients to remove the awning... with resulting lack of re-use.

Found this, hope it will help.   https://faroutride.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Fiamma-F45S-manual.pdf
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 18, 2019, 01:12:15 pm
Yes, we have a center support for our awning.

I have set up the support legs both ways, on the ground and in the brackets. We have to be careful opening the cabin door because if opened too far it hits the support. Also the door won’t stay open without using a bungee cord to keep it in place.
Interesting you use the center support yet still have issues with a breeze.

Regarding the main entry door hitting the pole....  Early on I came up with this remedy, crude but effective.  It also protects things if the wind rips the door out of hand.  I chain a few bungee cords between the entry door and side mirror to hold it open when needed.  A nice thing about the rope, it's easy to loop-on to limit, and loop-off when you want the full swing.  If the rope is off when it's windy outside, we loop it on before unlatching the door from the inside.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3403/3508503872_08f2eda265_z.jpg)

A couple years later, Phoenix installed a pneumatic door opener which addressed the problem in proper fashion.  We quickly adapted to the rope and so it serves us well to this day.  I actually have two lengths of ropes hanging off the door jamb, one a little longer that doubles as a quick clothes line inside looping over a near by upper cabinet knob.

I'm just sharing what I did back in 2007.  I am NOT saying it's what everyone without a door closure should do.  That goes for so much of what I share.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 18, 2019, 01:15:30 pm
I had the center support, but it didnt really seem to do much.  Even less when I forgot it was in there,  :beg , rolled up the awning until SNAP I had a two piece center support.  >(

Strong winch on the fabric. I honestly did not notice the extra effort, if any, it took to snap the brace.

Dont get me wrong, if I were shopping for a lightweight, economical sunshade for an RV this would fit the bill. I am looking for a much more robust product, however. 

And now that the cover wont close because of the torn fabric...removal may go on this weekend.  Lucky for me we only had 14 miles to go from the last party to home. Otherwise i would have resorted to field expedients to remove the awning... with resulting lack of re-use.

Found this, hope it will help.   https://faroutride.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Fiamma-F45S-manual.pdf
What can I say?  (WH)  It's time to look at something better.  I don't have to tell you...  "Bigger Is Also Better"
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 22, 2019, 10:24:48 am
Well now. The link I posted above for the Fiamma f45s was useless. BUT SO WAS THE ORIGINAL MANUAL.  pyho  Both of them do not show how the awning is mounted.

Pictures coming, but the awning is off and holes sealed. Looks as if there was 'history' here too... there was a second set of screw holes offset by ~1 inch or so that had marks around them that looked like they were ripped out.  :beg Then the awning replaced/remounted.

Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on April 22, 2019, 11:10:03 am
 (exactly)

I’ll take a SWAG that it hooks into a channel in the rain gutter/drip rail that was also made by Fiamma, with some screw holes drilled through the back of the housing to keep it in place????
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 22, 2019, 11:31:36 am
Well, I think the awning rail/drip rail is factory from PC. Same thing on the other side, and looks like a critical piece to hold the roof skin on.

The awning itself, from a side view, LOOKS as if it would lift/rotate out and be removed. It would not do so for us, for whatever reason.  We had to slide it out the back, and carefully support it during those last few feet... my nephew up on a 12 foot ladder.   2o2

RE:screws-  when you extend the awning, you could see 3 screws on either end and 4 near the middle that went into the coach. Took those out, and broke the glue seal to release the unit to the 'sliding back and forth' state..  I had to cut the awning the rest of the way to extend the frame, as when I rolled it up to get home the material fouled in the roller and would not roll out.

Pictures coming!  I forgot to bring the camera in to work to post them.  (exactly) I am still impressed...negatively... that the factory manual mentioned nothing about the mounting I have. Pages and pages of non-applicable things in 6 languages.   roflol
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 23, 2019, 07:19:39 pm
Torn Awning.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32738965997_3990ff3acb_k.jpg)

Had to cut the rest of the awning to access screws

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46765990675_9f703c8f10_k.jpg)

Fabric was bunched up on support. Center four mounting screws are visible here.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33804544878_8fe2565e94_k.jpg)

Both ends had three screws

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46765988805_6ffc2d6f61_k.jpg)

Bungee cords are wrapped around the arms to hold things. Tried to lift the awning off, did not work.
It does slide freely back and forth in the awning rail.


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46765987285_2d1d32c079_k.jpg)

So we slide it out the back. CAREFULLY.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33804539788_f427aff1ec_k.jpg)

The red circles show the old mounting holes. Green shows the new.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33804538698_a107a95f0c_k.jpg)

Its off!  Now to get a new one...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32738957527_3e445641c8_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on April 24, 2019, 01:17:55 am
Well done Volkemon 2o2 Thanks for TOFTT !!
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 24, 2019, 08:11:46 am
Hi Volkemon,

If I understand correctly....

To avoid disturbing the rain gutter and sealed roof, you instead slid the awning sideways out the rear.  If the rain gutter directly above it wasn't there, you would have room to pivot and lift the box awning off the aluminum mounts.

Did I get that right?

How heavy is your fully assembled awning?  Could you have lightened the load by partially disassembling it?

Maybe you cover this in detail but I missed it.

Whatever new awning you decide to get, I assume you will need to locate the aluminum studs to mount it firmly, likely using the existing holes.

Ron Dittmer
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 24, 2019, 09:19:28 am
Hi Volkemon,

If I understand correctly....

To avoid disturbing the rain gutter and sealed roof, you instead slid the awning sideways out the rear.  If the rain gutter directly above it wasn't there, you would have room to pivot and lift the box awning off the aluminum mounts.

Nope!  Sounds like you read the instructions also.  roflol The original book on that awning, that came with the coach papers, had NOTHING in it that applied to my mounting.  >(   There are no other mounting plates, no screws in the bottom, etc.   The back of the awning box had a " J " shape that fit snugly into the factory awning rail. LOOKS like one could lift-and-rotate the piece out, but it does not allow for that.  I dont think there really is a gutter.. I must look again. Or maybe the water collects between the awning and rail. See? MORE PICTURES NEEDED.  (nod)



How heavy is your fully assembled awning? 
Guessing 60 pounds? Maybe a bit more. One man can move it around easily on the ground.

Could you have lightened the load by partially disassembling it?

I tried. The arms do NOT come off the body or the extending part without drilling out the rivits that hold the end covers. The inner arm mount has 2 allen heads, and the backer comes out, but there is no clearance to get the assembly out the front. I tried, thats why the arms are 'kittywampus' in the housing, and the extending part is shifted to the back. Easy fix should someone replace the fabric. The best option was to bungee the ass'y together to reduce bulk.


Whatever new awning you decide to get, I assume you will need to locate the aluminum studs to mount it firmly, likely using the existing holes.

Not likely. The existing awning mounted a box to the coach. The new one will mount only at the very ends, and right at the top. Old holes will be filled and finished before paint. The new awning will have the fabric slide into the same rail, then the side rails will anchor outside. Pilot holes carefully sized, and careful installation will be the foundation for a strong mount.

Ron Dittmer


Pictures will be posted for install also.   Just need to get an awning kit...SOON!!   (exactly)  Next festival is May 15. http://www.orangeblossomjamboree.com/  and I am in charge of audio and video documenting of the event.


Chatting with Calcruiser, we determined that his awning never got the end mounting bolts. Only the middle.  :beg  So when he rolled it up, the housing pulled away from the wall. Waiting to hear if more screws fixed the problem.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on April 24, 2019, 01:08:33 pm
The channel in the top of the extruded rail is a rain gutter. There should be little angled flat  plastic diverters at the ends. Mine were toast so I replaced all 4 with Camco extended spouts, but the dew still drips onto the sidewalls at the widest point because of the tapered wall PC design. I had to trim the one by the slide topper to fit.

Thanks Volkemon  2o2 for solving the mystery of why the right end of my F45 Plus 3.5 appears to wobble as I finish retracting it. I may drill a hole and add a screw into the sidewall, but now that I know it’s just the awning housing warping under tension it doesn’t really bother me anymore.

As Volkemon stated, the Fiamma F45  installation instructions and mounting diagrams DO NOT APPLY to the Phoenix Cruiser because of it’s clever (maybe proprietary ?) extruded roof rail. Maybe Tina can make this a sticky thread ??
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 24, 2019, 08:24:43 pm
Quote from: CalCruiser
but now that I know it’s just the awning housing warping under tension it doesn’t really bother me anymore.

[rant]
(https://i.imgur.com/DKUR9Tk.png)
       >(    PLEASE FIX IT.    >(   You share the highway with others, secure your 'load'. NO excuse.  >(
[/rant]


*
Yes indeed, there is a gutter. I overlooked it. They told me I would go blind...  roflol 

EDIT - The gutter/awning rail is not a proprietary item. Easy Peasy stock stuff.  (cheer)

(https://cdn3.volusion.com/afvyg.fwnkv/v/vspfiles/photos/21-56301-8-Molding-Aluminum-2.jpg?1551286672)

The awning assembly SHOULD drop out of the awning rail. I examined the rail on my coach closely... and it shows trauma. Gap varies. That and the double screw holes ..... I think the awning I removed was #2.  (WH)

I had a section of awning rail, and it does lift off of the Fiamma awning. Here it is mocked up as mounted on the coach.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32748493357_8a4ed9f2d5_k.jpg)

Here it is with the awning rotated 180* up. Maybe a tad more... but it released from the rail.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32748492767_fb6a0e3887_k.jpg)


I bet if we had rotated my awning up, and slapped it down out of the rail....it would have fallen out. NOW I know...  (nod)
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 24, 2019, 09:35:59 pm
I dread the day I have to replace our awning material.  12 years so far and still good.  But we don't use our awning much so it remains fairly well preserved.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on April 26, 2019, 08:56:51 am
I dread the day I have to replace our awning material.  12 years so far and still good.  But we don't use our awning much so it remains fairly well preserved.

Ron, the way you maintain that coach, my money is the awning fabric outlasting you.  (exactly)


 I bet with the awning on the ground it isnt that bad a job. Anyone that wishes to live the adventure can have my awning...    :-D  I wish it was ~10 foot so I could use it on the carrier.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on April 27, 2019, 08:36:19 am
Anyone that wishes to live the adventure can have my awning...    :-D  I wish it was ~10 foot so I could use it on the carrier.
Not big enough for the Phoenix and too big for the trailer.  :'(

I never understood why back in the day Phoenix installed a 12 foot awning on model 2350.  The 14 foot is the one that fits right, looks right, and works right.  It was less than a $100 MSRP price increase to customers to get the 14 footer, so you know the difference to Phoenix was less yet.  As pointed out to me earlier, the 12 foot's interference with the outdoor storage compartment makes it a poor choice.  I wonder what Phoenix was thinking back then.  Maybe they got a truck load of 12 footers exceptionally cheap?
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on May 07, 2019, 10:29:43 am
Well...the plot thickens. (More redactions than the Meuller report...  roflol )


The *****************'s at Camping World phone service lied out their A******** to get our sale. The ****************** told me it would be here PLENTY of time....the last one "was ordered the 27th and the customer had it the first of may!" That may be, but they probably LIVED NEXT DOOR TO DOMETIC!  pyho


Now they are saying it MIGHT ship by the 13th from Dometic. . Do we want to pay expedited shipping to get it here sooner?  ************************* YOU GUYS! I told them we leave the 13th. ************************ camping world.


and... I thought maybe going to the LOCAL factory in orlando for Fiamma might get a replacement awning. Nope. Double whammy.

1) They only have replacements on hand for 35 series, or 45 's'   the 45 'i'  is not supported. They have part numbers, but no product. Obsolete.

2 Even so, if I wanted to try to fit a 35 series to the 45i... he needed the length. I told him the sticker had never been filled out on my awning, but gave him measurements. I was toid this wasnt even a standard size, and it wasnt uncommon for OEM's to have custom sizes, and by the measurements thats what I have.

NO factory solution from Fiamma. They are sorry, and the guy really wanted to help.

Source: Octavio at the Fiamma Factory in Orlando, via phone today.


SO.... what to do.  I an 'in' with an upholstery shop or two here... maybe have a replacement awning sewn up out of whatevah they have? Its just for this next few weeks.  Maybe just slide the fabric into the awning rail and 'make do'. Dunno. Will post. Open for suggestions.

We have a brand new room for it... that looks like it will be in the box for a while unless i pull something out.................


But I tell ya what.... its gonna be a LONG F****************** TIME before camping world sees my credit card number again. ********************************* THEM.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on May 08, 2019, 10:04:55 am
 Bit cooler in the noggin today.  hithere Few discoveries.

Found this video, it covers the 45s, but is 99% the same as the 45i. The differences: the cover does not 'hinge up' like shown in the video, and there are (2) screws and a pop rivit holding the end caps on.

https://www.spinney.co.uk/about/videos/fiamma-f45-repair-guide-changing-the-canopy

Octavio was right, I do have a 'custom' awning. Fabric is 12'6", and on the data plate the 'special' box does have an 'x' scratched in it. Did not notice that until disassembly yesterday.

The replacement fabric for a carefree awning works, but you have to get the 2 piece kit, not the one piece. The main piece we got had the 1/4 inch rail insert on one end, 3/16 on the other. Evidently a standard? Our torn one had the same.  2o2  It is also 8 foot between the inserts, same as the fiamma.

The new piece is 14'2", made for a 15 footer. I am going to cut it to 12'6"

We should have a useable Fiamma awning by saturday.

Now... I found another item that will GREATLY improve the use of the fiamma awning. Was on that british site with the video above. I am at work, cant find the link, but it was the fiamma equal to this:

(https://www.campingworld.com/dw/image/v2/BCJK_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-global-master-catalog/default/dw043ba9a1/images/large/088503_1.jpg)

https://www.amazon.com/Lippert-Components-362237-Solera-Awnbrella/dp/B01FIAV34I/ref=asc_df_B01FIAV34I/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312098740701&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16110111505299198761&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011833&hvtargid=pla-570773391273&psc=1

We got a 3-pack already for the awning that isnt here yet. I tried them in the fiamma... hell yes!! A game changer.  These will hold the awning arched, and tight!! They have a pin in one end that needs a hole drilled to seat.  The mounting plates will fit in the fiamma housing even.

Pictures coming. I now am very familiar with teardown and rebuilding Fiamma F45i awnings!!

Might even like it with the supports..  :)(:


And now, The Rest of the Story..( I miss Paul Harvey )..... evidently Mrs V was a bit PO'd about the awning delay, and did some calling around Camping World HQ. I had no idea. I was down ripping apart the fiamma, She was ripping...well.... :beg

 (cheer) Kitty got claws.  (nod)

 heartshower Dometic shipped it yesterday afternoon on special delivery, should be here friday.   heartshower

So by saturday we should have 2 working awnings to choose from.  roflol  My how things change quickly.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on May 13, 2019, 09:16:13 am
Well, the Fiamma awning is up again.

Replacement fabric worked, the insert sizes were correct. 

When I cut the fabric, i left the sewn edge on one side, figuring one finished edge is better than none, right?

WRONG.  The extra layer of fabric on that one side did not let it roll up correctly.  :beg  After a couple hours of adjusting without success, I carefully cut off the edge with a razor. Rolls in evenly now. WHEW.

The Awnbrellas are the best thing to ever happen to that awning. With those and the side room, the extended awning is so firm I can ROCK THE CAMPER with it.  (cheer)

The external room is fantastic. Quality materials and workmanship. 'Baptism by fire' with a storm sat night... sunday morning showed all well and true.  2o2

Pictures at home...will post.   


Camping World refunded all shipping costs, and awning kit will be delivered to my workplace wednesday the 15th. Otherwise it would be outside or house, as we are leaving the 14th.  >(


Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: TNcanuck on May 13, 2019, 09:34:24 am
Congrats on the successful awning project. You are now officially the “go to” guy on all things awnings. Lol!

Those arched supports look great.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on May 13, 2019, 01:54:57 pm

 2o2 thank you
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Ron Dittmer on May 13, 2019, 02:08:41 pm
Volkemon,

You are the resident expert.  I now have a resource for advise in Fiamma awning repair.  (cheer)

 tymote
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on May 27, 2019, 03:30:40 pm
Wheeeeeeee Doggies! 

The Awnbrellas worked *so* very well. I can highly recommend them. If i had not already bought the new awning, I might have learned to live with the Fiamma, it works that well.

Also got an 'add a room ', also very happy with it. Minor annoyances, but these can be worked out.

Couple pics from initial setup in the driveway.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944775887_e8876e2565_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944786178_28181c2a9e_k.jpg)


and out in the wild. We were put RIGHT behind the stage with crew.  :beg Packed in like sardines, i managed to get an 'on the fence' spot and set us up with the King Ranch of sites.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944774487_b584905754_k.jpg)

And they were packed in on the other side. If a tent fit, it was there.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944773687_9abcd56140_k.jpg)

Wait... that hose.... ENHANCE!   roflol

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944784003_9bf6491d67_k.jpg)

Heard a few people had pipes break in their RV's due to high pressure. The green hose is brand new.  :beg  YAAAAY!!! Regulator.


Couple inside shots. The add-a-room was so tight we opened up the bed window and the door to AC the space. Small fan in the window blowing in made it cool in there when ~90* outside.  2o2

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944797228_9f7c2aae47_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47944797833_70ed397486_k.jpg)

It was set up nicely, but I didnt think to get pics until teardown had started.

Cant wait for the new awning to be installed. Must do research first... it is gonna be a tight fit!!
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 28, 2019, 07:27:27 am
Nice! You had me worried for a minute with those first pics - no more hippie rags!!!  :'(  but then I got to the inside pics. You've gone stealth hippie. I like it.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on May 28, 2019, 11:02:04 am
Nice! You had me worried for a minute with those first pics - no more hippie rags!!!  :'(  but then I got to the inside pics. You've gone stealth hippie. I like it.

My hair may be short now, but still a hippie.  ;)  Sometimes it does pay to be low profile, however.

We normally do have much more for outside decorating, but this was a working fest.  And with the neighbors...we kept the decorations inside.  Tapestries like that cost $150-200 each, and are hard to secure.  :beg NORMALLY we are camped next to friends, and many eyes make safe campsites. This was not a group I would trust.  :-[

Video and audio on 57 bands over 5 days and 3 stages....and got them all.  I was on main stage from 9:30am to 1am  every day.


Working out details on mounting the 14 foot awning...gonna be REAL tight, but worth it.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: 2 Lucky on May 28, 2019, 05:09:32 pm
Nice! You had me worried for a minute with those first pics - no more hippie rags!!!  :'(  but then I got to the inside pics. You've gone stealth hippie. I like it.

My hair may be short now, but still a hippie.  ;)  Sometimes it does pay to be low profile, however.

We normally do have much more for outside decorating, but this was a working fest.  And with the neighbors...we kept the decorations inside.  Tapestries like that cost $150-200 each, and are hard to secure.  :beg NORMALLY we are camped next to friends, and many eyes make safe campsites. This was not a group I would trust.  :-[

Video and audio on 57 bands over 5 days and 3 stages....and got them all.  I was on main stage from 9:30am to 1am  every day.


Working out details on mounting the 14 foot awning...gonna be REAL tight, but worth it.
As a fellow hippie in disguise I really admire those tapestries.  2o2

Dougn
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: CalCruiser on May 28, 2019, 06:01:31 pm
Nice! You had me worried for a minute with those first pics - no more hippie rags!!!  :'(  but then I got to the inside pics. You've gone stealth hippie. I like it.

My hair may be short now, but still a hippie.  ;)  Sometimes it does pay to be low profile, however.

We normally do have much more for outside decorating, but this was a working fest.  And with the neighbors...we kept the decorations inside.  Tapestries like that cost $150-200 each, and are hard to secure.  :beg NORMALLY we are camped next to friends, and many eyes make safe campsites. This was not a group I would trust.  :-[

Video and audio on 57 bands over 5 days and 3 stages....and got them all.  I was on main stage from 9:30am to 1am  every day.


Working out details on mounting the 14 foot awning...gonna be REAL tight, but worth it.
As a fellow hippie in disguise I really admire those tapestries.  2o2

Dougn

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tYzsE8upLiY

Too bad   Dick' s Labor Day weekend camping is all sold out. PC rally next year metoo
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: 2 Frazzled on May 29, 2019, 10:06:40 am
Tapestries like that cost $150-200 each, and are hard to secure.

My "hippie rags" were way less (and probably lower quality). They are basically dyed sheets. I found them on Amazon (search wall tapestry and sort by price) and https://trippystore.com/collections/tapestries  There was another website but I can't remember which one.
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on May 29, 2019, 12:03:12 pm
Tapestries like that cost $150-200 each, and are hard to secure.

My "hippie rags" were way less (and probably lower quality). They are basically dyed sheets. I found them on Amazon (search wall tapestry and sort by price) and https://trippystore.com/collections/tapestries  There was another website but I can't remember which one.

Sure!  We have many 'commercial' tapestries, and they generally make up the outer perimeter display. Had only two disappear over the years, so not too bad. I looked at that site - https://trippystore.com/collections/tapestries  - and we have 3 of the ones shown on page one.  This one has good 'bang for the buck' -

(https://www.sunshinejoy.com/image/cache/catalog/Products/3d-grateful-dead-dancing-bears-spiral-tapestry-60x90-1000x1500.jpg)
These are printed, and not tie dyed.  Use a color changing LED light, and it appears to spiral.

MANY ALL of the chinese tie dyes are printed. Especially the shirts you see with a logo/design on a tie dye background. Its funny when a noob is bragging about their hand made tie dye...and someone else has the same exact shirt.  :beg Full Stop.  As Dire Straits said - " Two men think they're Jesus..... one of them MUST be wrong"  (nod)

Most hand made are dyed sheets, queen usually. We have one done out of heavier material, and its 4' x 25'.  :-D  The vendor was getting beat up on the price by a customer, and brought it to me. " IS this worth a $100? This guy wants me to go to $80.."  I responded by buying it for $100 then and there. We use it for a top border on the 13x13 pop ups.  Never seen another quite like it.

The 'skull' one was done by the artist over the course of two weeks. If you look carefully in the 'teeth' you can see names, it is a memory tapestry for Suwannee Rising 2019. We have many tap's that have names and dates to help us remember the good times every time we unpack them.

The peace sign one was a beginner tie dye from a friend, she does MUCH better now, but we love that one. The other patterned one by the skull was a facebook find for only $75. Guy was 'cleaning out the studio' and selling cheap. I got two shirts for $15 each! 

Mrs V found me a Polo shirt tie dye this last fest.  2o2 For those occasions that require a shirt with a collar.  roflol

A good method for getting the best hand done pieces is to GET THERE FIRST. Mrs V gets my wallet and makes a beeline to the vendors early on. She gets the hard to find items then and there, and works slowly buying the more expensive pieces. But wait too long on a good piece... its gone.

We have friends with tie dye suits, skirts, overalls and , for the win, a tie dye kilt.  :lol 


Topic Drift....its a thing.    (exactly)  Glad we are not getting graded on this.  I will be making more awning progress after I can rope in a couple friends for an afternoon of test fitting.  :)(:
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: 2 Lucky on May 29, 2019, 07:36:42 pm
So, wait, I'm supposed to need a color changing led light to see that dancing bear print spiral...?
Dougn
Title: Re: Replacement of Fiamma 45i awning
Post by: Volkemon on May 30, 2019, 01:16:39 pm
So, wait, I'm supposed to need a color changing led light to see that dancing bear print spiral...?
Dougn

Spiral as in the noun, no. Spiral as in the verb. yes. ie: appear to move or be an animation.

 :)(: can make it seem to move also.  :lol  So can other things available in Denver.  :cool