I have had water come in the slide when parked in the rain, but discovered I had done a poor job of leveling and the rig was clearly 'downhill' away from slide. So water that blew onto the top of slide ran into the rig and dripped onto the floor. It then ran all the way back to the rear of the coach and soaked the rug in the bathroom. Totally my fault and I will do a better job of paying attention to the level in the future.
Volkmen..I agree 150% with Jatrax that the step leak is your greatest concern for rot will start very fast. Water can come from anywhere but we all know it runs down hill and therefore ends up on the bottom step. I would look around the awning anchors to see if there might be some leakage coming in around some lags or where the awning remote wire comes thru the wall. I would go up from there to see if there is not a separation somewhere on the roof? Best of luck.
I too have never heard of such a significant exterior leak.
Volkemon, persistance and a positive attitude will get you far with your rig. Keep us informed on how this turns out.
Getting a 2006 2350 for less than $25,000 is a very good deal, even considering the issues you are dealing with. I rarely see a 2350 that low for a model year 2004 or newer.
please check the cap caulking. That is where mine leaked down the front windshield.
You learned a lot overnight.
:lol Yes we did.
A 2006 entry door is the same one used in a new 2018. It sounds like you should order the thicker main entry door seal from Phoenix.
Maybe so. The one on there is in decent shape, but I dont like how it was installed.
If any water is coming in between the main entry door frame and the wall, that would require caulking. Look for cracks in the existing caulk. Many seams are trimmed off with a 3/4 x 1/8" plastic trim and caulked on each side, but between door frame and wall I think it's a single seam. Also check the tiny rain gutter across the top of the door, making sure it is clean and sealed properly against the wall.
The door frame looks like a flush mount to the wall outside, with a small bead of silicone sealant I suspect has been added later. The tiny rain gutter is there, with no 'gaping voids' but missing the front gutterspout.
I am curious about your rear exterior wall damage. Could you post a picture of it? You have me wondering how deep the impact went. It sounds like it affected the rear structural interior wall. You mentioned the rear compartment gets wet but has good drainage. Are you referring to the large rear under-bed storage compartment? Or the shallow rear storage compartment integrated into the rear wall?
Pictures coming. Its ugly up close, but not :beg on a casual look. I think it was major, tearing off the rear cover on the right rear judging by the crack in it, and the poor shape of the covering trim over the seam. :'( It got us a ~$2K reduction on the price. The leak is in the shallow rear compartment, although I have not checked the underbed yet today. It is still lightly raining, and bitter cold (for Florida.. I may have to put on a shirt! roflol ) Pictures coming ASAP.
When we visited Phoenix a year ago, walking the factory floor I recall seeing a unit being built. It was about to have the exterior fiberglass rear wall installed. Oh how I wished I had taken pictures there. If your interior rear interior wall is compromised with water getting inside on the bed, the proper repair might include removing the exterior fiberglass wall to repair the interior wall. If that is your situation, you might want to call Phoenix for an estimate to have them repair the body damage. They will be able to replace your fiberglass exterior rear wall if the damage to it interferes with a proper repair.
Phoenix is now under new ownership so what I am about to say might be different. But maybe 6 years ago, someone bought an early model year PC with rear wall damage resulting in leakage. Phoenix removed the rear wall, made proper repairs, and put it all back together like brand new for around $3000. For you, being the slowest time of year it is in December for Phoenix, you might be able to schedule such a dramatic repair. It might take them a day or two to get it done. As well, Phoenix will know how to deal with your entry door leak and water damage. Provide them with pictures to help them provide accurate estimates. The cost might be worth the ride out and back and the few days spent there. Nobody knows how to repair a PC better than Phoenix, and nobody has the right spare parts in stock like they do. Though their hourly rate has increased, they are also dang efficient at doing the repairs costing you fewer hours of labor. If our PC was in a significant accident causing water infiltration like you describe, Phoenix would be my place to run to.
I agree 100%. It is an option.
Concerning the dripping of water inside your PC from your brand new roof a/c unit, that does not sound right to me. Something is wrong there. I suspect the new a/c seal (or reused original seal) is deformed or seated improperly, allowing rain water and/or condensed water from the a/c unit back inside.
I suspect the same. It will need to be removed and inspected/resealed. After the dry-off last night, and even more rain, it is dry on the A/C and carpet below. 2o2
Call Phoenix. Get some prices from them.
I have an unrelated question. I assume your 2006 PC-2350 is built on either a 2005 or 2006 Ford E350 chassis. Do you know what a stabilizer bar looks like? If so, look under your rig and see if you have one for your rear axle. You won't unless the previous owner installed one. Also check your front stabilizer bar. The Ford stock front stabilizer bar, the ends of it go into holes inside the front lower suspension. If you see any gap between the bar and the end rubber grommets (I suspect you will) your front bar is worn. Installing heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars will be well worth the extra investment for driving safety and comfort. CLICK HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,155.0.html) to read more about it. CLICK HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2094.0.html) to read how to check your own suspension.
I have read both the links you reference, and many others here from you. I am one who 'lurks' for some time before posting to avoid repeating questions.
I am familiar with renewing the end link and frame bushings on the sway bar, upgrading to graphite impregnated 'urethane to avoid creaks and squeaks. Are you saying the bar itself wears out or the bushings? I have seen them bend to be unusable, but never 'wear out'
Rear sway and track bar, oversize front bar, shocks and airbags are all on the wish list as we intend on towing a trailer on festival outings. Not currently budgeted, however. :-[
At a glace the rear wall does not look bad, but like you say, when studying it closer, it appears the rear wall had pulled away. I suspect a previous owner clipped a tree maneuvering the rig in a camp-site.....a very common owner error. I assume the rear wall ripped away from the inner wall, screws and all. The repair appears to have involved pushing the wall back into position and attached it in a less than ideal manner. If you plan to own the rig for a long time, I advise to have Phoenix install a brand new wall and be forever done with the matter. If you are like many people here on this forum who change motor homes frequently, then try your best to reinforce and increase the attachment points around the area of damage, and get the seam in proper alignment so the finish trim is straightened out. Being in Florida, you might have a skilled local boat repair shop that can handle it all in a proper manner. But watch out for the cost of repair. They may charge nearly as much as a brand new wall installed by Phoenix.
Your diagnosis agrees with mine. :)(:
I would do the repair myself if PC does not do it. I am familiar with polyester resin and epoxy resin fiberglass construction/repair. The biggest hurdle I face is sourcing the seam cover. Tough item to ship.
About your storage door holding water in between the inner and outer skins. I just looked at my 2007 2350 under-bed outdoor storage compartment door. It has 3 weep holes maybe 1/8" x 1/4" in size, perfectly manufactured. They are along the bottom edge located outside the weather strip so collected water drips out onto the street. Make sure your holes are free and clear of debris. Maybe some original manufacturing dust and fiberglass bits have plugged up your 3 holes.
Just checked, there is one at either end on the underbed, 3 on the rear. All clear.
But that allowed me to see how they are made. Pretty simple- to disassemble, take out the four runner corners. Then the 4 aluminum locking pieces. This will allow the 'guts' to slide out, it looks to be aluminum sheeting sandwiching 3/4" polystyrene foam.
SO good to know for two things...
1) I can properly seal the lids using a bead of clear silicone before assembly.
2)On the back hatch, the support strut to the outside got ripped off the lid. I can see several tries for a repair that have failed. Its a holy spot. roflol (Picture below) I can add some wood backer block in this area when i have the door apart. 2o2
Also just noticed... in that pic you can see the rubber corner, the aluminum lock strip in the upper left... and the missing lock strip on the strut mounting side. On to the 'parts needed' list it goes.
Call Phoenix. Get some prices from them.Very good advice. And considering the price paid for this coach putting a few grand into it to have it professionally repaired and brought up to snuff seems well worth it to me. Of course it is easy for us to spend others money, BUT we are talking about water leaks which are the #1 enemy of any RV. A few grand now might save you a lot more in the long run. Or at least give you a nice comfortable motor home you can enjoy instead of constantly worrying about.
I have an unrelated question. I assume your 2006 PC-2350 is built on either a 2005 or 2006 Ford E350 chassis. Do you know what a stabilizer bar looks like? If so, look under your rig and see if you have one for your rear axle. You won't unless the previous owner installed one. Also check your front stabilizer bar. The Ford stock front stabilizer bar, the ends of it go into holes inside the front lower suspension. If you see any gap between the bar and the end rubber grommets (I suspect you will) your front bar is worn. Installing heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars will be well worth the extra investment for driving safety and comfort. CLICK HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,155.0.html) to read more about it. CLICK HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,2094.0.html) to read how to check your own suspension.The front Ford stabilizer bar end bushings (also called grommets) is what wears and does so very quickly. The steel stabilizer bar itself is severely under-rated for the full load of a motor home, rendering it nearly ineffective. Add the end rubber grommet wear and it's a decoration.
I have read both the links you reference, and many others here from you. I am one who 'lurks' for some time before posting to avoid repeating questions.
I am familiar with renewing the end link and frame bushings on the sway bar, upgrading to graphite impregnated 'urethane to avoid creaks and squeaks. Are you saying the bar itself wears out or the bushings? I have seen them bend to be unusable, but never 'wear out'
Rear sway and track bar, oversize front bar, shocks and airbags are all on the wish list as we intend on towing a trailer on festival outings. Not currently budgeted, however. :-[
ANOTHER water leak found. This one from the outside shower unit. In the inside picture, note the reflection in 'Lake Commode' of the drain pipe. The line of drips across the bottom of the outside shower unit made it an easy diagnosis. Looking at the outside picture you can see it pulled away from the wall a slight bit... that soaked the shelf in the bathroom. The shelf is dished from previous water leaks there, guess I overlooked that on inspection.Boy oh boy, the surprises keep coming. I feel for you. Hopefully you can tackle each issue with successful permanent results.
The front Ford stabilizer bar end bushings (also called grommets) is what wears and does so very quickly. The steel stabilizer bar itself is severely under-rated for the full load of a motor home, rendering it nearly ineffective. Add the end rubber grommet wear and it's a decoration.
Making this clear for the other readers here....If you have a 2008 Ford chassis or newer, you have a better front stabilizer bar design direct from Ford. Your bar is still under-rated for the load of a motor home, but your end links are not rubber grommets and don't have the quick-wear issue.
ANOTHER water leak found. This one from the outside shower unit. In the inside picture, note the reflection in 'Lake Commode' of the drain pipe. The line of drips across the bottom of the outside shower unit made it an easy diagnosis. Looking at the outside picture you can see it pulled away from the wall a slight bit... that soaked the shelf in the bathroom. The shelf is dished from previous water leaks there, guess I overlooked that on inspection.Boy oh boy, the surprises keep coming. I feel for you. Hopefully you can tackle each issue with successful permanent results.
Volkemon, thanks so much for your narrative and photos on what you found. Fortunately I haven’t had any leaks so far (knock on wood) but I am paranoid about this occurring. Even though my unit is only about a year and a half old I frequently inspect the roof caulking and have touched it up to try and stay ahead of any issues.
One area of concern i have is where the roof and sides mate up with the front and rear fiberglass end caps. I see on the sides in your photos this is where you found areas where water was getting in. Is this just a simple U channel that snaps over the seam or how is it retained?
The front and rear caps lap over the side panels. On the rear cap, it appeared that the cap was pop-riveted every 6 inches or so to the body panels. There is a metal track that then was riveted on top of the seam, with rivets that barely went through both layers below. The trim you see on the outside clpis on to the metal track, hiding it.
As you mentioned several screws were used are they just screwed in to the outer fiberglass skin or do they depend of the Luan plywood interior panel for their anchor? Since I have not seen this splice joint disconnected other than your photos and I am a little confused as to how it supposed to work. Any clarification you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
The screws on the rear cap seam were all added in a previous repair that was done rather poorly. They anchor the surface track into the rear cap and side skins similar to the original pop-rivets. Before my ownership, It would appear that the rear corner hit something. With a new, undamaged coach I wouldnt worry too much about those seams.
I had a VW before too (Winnebago Rialta) and finding parts and service for that teutonic pos was like owning an antique car, something you don't do unless you are mechanically inclined and enjoy working on projects, but really should not be driving on adventures to Anytown USA.
I find it amazing how such a minor water leak at the lower skirt can do so much damage. Not just water but also mold. Fortunately it is in a confined area that is non structural and relatively simple to resolve. This should be a warning to the rest of us. If water is getting inside somehow. Don't delay in finding the cause.
(nod)
Imagine the water damage and mold that often occurs in a typical class C in the cab-over bed area. You had a small confined area, they have it in a massive area. I don't know how people deal with the mold while ignoring the problem.
We looked at a few.
You are doing great there volkemon.