Am I correct in thinking that campground outlets with 15 amp and 30 amp service are capable of supplying a total of 45 amps or would they typically be protected at a maximum of 30 amps?@fandj, in a perfect world you might be correct. However, I suspect the answer to that question is "probably not". While it is certainly possible that some parks are wired that way I think most would just run the wire to the 30 amp receptacle and tap off that to power the 15 amp one. That means you are going to be restricted by the breaker in the pedestal, so 30 amps total.
If I can get comfortable that this is safe and indeed will provide me the ability to run the portable heater while using the microwave, water heater, and tv i would move ahead with the project.Provided the additional receptacle is the only thing powered by the added 15 amp input and therefore has no other connection to the rig I see no safety issues. So assuming the the pedestal is wired to allow more than 30 amps it should work. And if it wasn't wired to handle that then the breaker should trip.
Find the best location in the door jamb that has the least pressure against the extension cord. Maybe you could tape a short wood dowel rod of the same diameter of the cord, to the cord when closing the door to relieve any pinching of the cord.
....and have a 12ga cord running out to run a dehumidifier as we sort out water leaks. pyhoWhere is rain water showing up in your PC? I ask because some time ago I read a few other people experiencing water leaks near the entry door. The culprit was the electric awning, specifically where the wires pass through from inside to outside to supply power to the drive motor. Others had water coming in through the slide out. I don't recall the exact resolution. What I do recall was that the solution confused me. Since neither applied to me personally, I didn't give either enough brain power. Maybe others can help you through the trouble-shooting process.
Any campground that would wire a 15 amp receptacle into a 30amp breaker is asking for a lawsuit if an accident ever happened.
I am thinking of installing a Marinco male connector in the side of the PC similar to the PC installed 30 amp male connector but would be designed to connect a 15 amp cord. This would require drilling a 1 7/8” inch in the fiberglass exterior. Anyone else drilled or cut the side panel and if so what was your experience? I know Phoenix must successfully cut holes to install various electrical and plumbing ports but it makes me a little nervous.
There is ONLY one way to do it safely... A 50 amp plug to 30a AND 15a adapter.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MRN4C73/ref=asc_df_B01MRN4C735299883/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B01MRN4C73&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198064502357&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5556998667899434989&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028903&hvtargid=pla-348585281213
Which means you MUST select a spot with a 50a receptacle.
Your other option... Turn off the heater before you use the microwave.
There is ONLY one way to do it safely... A 50 amp plug to 30a AND 15a adapter.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MRN4C73/ref=asc_df_B01MRN4C735299883/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B01MRN4C73&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198064502357&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5556998667899434989&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028903&hvtargid=pla-348585281213
Which means you MUST select a spot with a 50a receptacle.
Your other option... Turn off the heater before you use the microwave.
The question posed by the OP was how to install the service connection in/on his RV. We have turned it into a discussion of electrical supply.. :lol BUt indeed informational!
I am unclear as to how using the 30A and 15A outlets in a properly wired pedestal would be dangerous. Even if they were supplied off the same leg, each outlet has its own local breaker, and the 15A is required to have its own GFCI. A short circuit or overload condition on either outlet is protected by the correctly sized breaker in the pedestal.
The adapter you link to has no circuit breaker protection for the 30A or the 15A outlets. Each of these outlets would be protected by one leg of the 50A breaker in the pedestal. So now there is a 30A service protected by a 50A breaker, and a 15A service protected by another 50A breaker. This appears to be the most dangerous solution so far. :beg I welcome correction on this. Please.
Found a free online link to the 2011 NEC , and been studying section 551 which covers RV services. It has helped a lot, as I have little (ok...NO roflol ) experience wiring up RV park pedestals.
One piece of info I have yet to find is current required to melt a wire...
IE: I take a 14/3 cord, and wire nut the hot and neutral together. :-[ IF I run it on a 30A breaker, does it trip the breaker before the wire glows red hot and/or melts the copper? 50A breaker?
Some destructive testing might be in order. I have to imagine someone else has had to try this already... just cant find it.
A 50 amp receptacle on a pedestal is 220 (240) volts. Just like the wiring coming into your house... Two separate 120v circuits but they are 180 degrees out of phase so between the 2 circuits you get 240 volts. Each one has a 50a breaker and they are tied together so if either line exceeds 50a, both sides will open (via the breaker).
That has not been my experience. When one leg of a 220V service is used as a 110V source, only that 1/2 of the breaker trips. The bar between the two legs on the breaker many times allows one leg to trip and not the other.
However, the adapter I showed separates those 2 sides into a 30a socket and a 15 (20) amp socket. Correct, there are no breakers in that adapter, but your 30a shoreline DOES have a 30a breaker for the shoreline. One would presume that if you are going to put a 20 amp shoreline hookup in the fiberglass, you'd also put a 15 or 20a breaker between it and the receptacle where you'd plug in the heater.
Correct, but the wiring between the pedestal and the coach breaker box are rated for 30A and 15A. The only protection between the post and the breaker box in the coach comes from the breakers in the pedestal. So should a short appear between the pedestal and the coach, say in your shore power connector, the pedestal breakers will trip.
With the adapter, the 'proper' 30A and 15A shore power connector cables/wiring are now not protected by the proper size breaker. The circuits in the coach 'downstream' of the coaches breaker box are indeed protected. The shore power cables outside, and the wiring inside the coach from the shore power receptacle and into the breaker box are now not protected properly.
That ONE receptacle would ONLY be hot when you ran the 2nd shoreline. Without that 2nd shoreline plugged in, the receptacle would not be powered.
Agreed 100%
Using the adapter will guarantee that the 30a and 15a lines don't come off a single 30a breaker.
Also true, but it having both on one 30A breaker will err on the side of safety. The 30A service between the pedestal and the coach breaker box will be properly protected, the 15A will be 'underprotected' because it will need to draw 30A + to trip the breaker if no power is being used from the 30A outlet. Both cables are limited to 3600W total power (at 120V).
With the adapter in a 50A outlet, the 30A side and/or the 15A side will need to draw 50A+ to trip the pedestal breaker. 6000W per cable (50A x 120V) or 12,000W total for both cables at 120V. Over three times the energy available to heat things up.
I have seen many RV park pedestals where there is only a 30a and 50a breaker but 3 receptacles.. 50a, 30a and 15a.
I have gotten a few stares over this week hopping out of my VW Bus to inspect pedestals around here. After looking at ~15 or so, I also have noticed the 30A always has a 30A breaker, maybe 1/2 have the 20A breaker (I assume) feeds the 20A GFCI in the pedestal. The others just have a GFCI outlet protected by the 30A breaker. The 50A always have a 220V 50A breaker.
I know from residential wiring that things are NOT always wired 'to code'. Thats why I preface things with 'properly wired' if stating an example case.
Sure seems like it’s being over engineered. You could run a cord From the pedestal throw it thru a window and run your portable heater and be legal and safe. Not that anyone wants to do that but it is safe. What I’m getting at is you can add all these fail safes for this one 110 outlet and end up paranoid the rest of the coach isn’t as safe.Your thoughts are my thoughts with this one.
Sure seems like it’s being over engineered. You could run a cord From the pedestal throw it thru a window and run your portable heater and be legal and safe. Not that anyone wants to do that but it is safe. What I’m getting at is you can add all these fail safes for this one 110 outlet and end up paranoid the rest of the coach isn’t as safe.
Volkemon thanks for the link on the power cord with breaker. Do you know if the breaker is actuated on amps or ground fault or power surge? I wasn’t able to find anything specific in the description or questions.
If it is a true current limiting type breaker I think I may buy it as another layer of protection.
..... And it does seem like there are simple solutions we can easily implement via "protection inside the power cord". It is nice to know there are such things available. As someone had mentioned, it would seem ideal to have a 30A 30 foot power cord with circuit breaker protection built into the head of it, as found with the 15A cord with circuit protection. That way you need not rely on the operational condition of the circuit breaker inside the power peg.
I wonder if there 15 and 30 Amp products available (a box thingy without a cord) that plugs into the power peg outlet, then you plug your cord into it. It sounds silly to have redundant circuit breakers just inches apart, but it would assure reliable circuit breaker protection.
However, I would feel better with a belt as a backup to my suspenders.
However, I would feel better with a belt as a backup to my suspenders.
(exactly) I have never heard this before, but LOVE it!
Found these breakers, other web images show the back better. two screw to mount to top, and you can just see the rear mounting screws for the power wires.
(https://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/images/catalog/large/2412369_LRG.jpg)
You can select 2.5A to 50A single pole on this page. Might be available elsewhere, I just found them here first.
blue-sea-systems--a-series-single-pole-white-toggle-circuit-breakers--P002413698
A good start. :)
Not really. That breaker is designed to be inside a circuit oanel box that is NOT exposed to the elements.
Your 30a shoreline is routed through the transfer s
Switch to your circuit breaker panel where BEFORE anything else, it goes thru a 30a breaker.
Not really. That breaker is designed to be inside a circuit oanel box that is NOT exposed to the elements.
LOL... maybe we build things differently... but I was planning on this being inside a weather resistant box, outside. After the 50A male plug, but before the 30A and 15A female sockets.QuoteYour 30a shoreline is routed through the transfer s
Switch to your circuit breaker panel where BEFORE anything else, it goes thru a 30a breaker.
I have not dug into the wiring between the shore power hookup on the outside of the coach and the breaker panel. I am overdue there. I am under the impression that my 30A shorepower plugs into the pedestal, or adapter(s) attached to it.
Then it connects to the bulkhead/connector on the side of my camper. Inside, there is wiring that connects the bulkhead to the transfer switch. From the transfer switch, there is wiring leading to the breaker box in the coach. In this box is a 30A fuse that protects the wiring from the pedestal to the coach from damaging short circuits after the breaker box.
So if I am using the 50A to 30A /15A adapter, with my 30A shorepower plugged in, dont I have to have 50A (or ~6000W ) of draw before the pedestal breaker blows? HOPEFULLY having the breaker putting near twice the power in before tripping does not leave me with hot wire fire before it blows, as the wiring and equipment before the coach breaker box is designed for a 30A.
This is truly a 'belt and suspenders' scenario. If there was a HUGE problem with this, there would be many more electrical fires reported in RV's. The adapters would be banned. There is not, and they are not.
The important thing however, is that I feel MY coach is protected. And others may have the same feeling.
Imagine if you will... the adapter below -
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71cG5bCy5kL._SX425_.jpg)
But with small (2x4x2) accessible boxes inline with the 30 and 15 amp outlets.* Inside each of the boxes are the appropriate breaker (15A or 30A) feeding that outlet. I am thinking small screw cover watertight boxes, as HOPEFULLY one doesnt need to reset the breakers on a regular basis. :-D This would be a simple and SAFE way to use a 50A adapter, and have a current protected 30A and 15A service from it. The shore power cable, the outlet on the coach, the internal wiring, transfer switch and the supply line to the coach breaker box are now all protected properly by a 30A breaker, not a 50. The additional 15A, be it a 'cord through the window' or other configuration, is now protected by a 15A breaker, not a 50A breaker.
Aside from a minor weight gain of the adapter, I dont see a down side to this. I do see benefits.
The holiday season has me a bit slow on my projects right now, but I plan on getting the adapter, boxes and breakers soon.
As always, corrections welcome!! Please.
* Hm... maybe just one bigger box with both breakers. Might be easier to work with. As usual, at work thinking about camper projects. roflol
Your easiest, cheapest route is to either turn off your heater or your water heater when you use the microwave.That is our practice as I am sure is the practice of most others. It works!
You are overengineering and overthinking.
Yep. We have named it 'Belt and suspenders' :lol
Your easiest, cheapest route is to either turn off your heater or your water heater when you use the microwave.
True. The word we were focusing on is 'safest'.
There is no such thing as a waterproof circuit breaker box.
TRULY waterproof? to depth? Not in my budget. :-D
An I going for any ratings/certifications/ 'UL' type listing. No. Even the 50A to 30A adapter specs say "No Certifications or Listings"
source - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Connecticut-Electric-50-30-Amp-Outlet-Adapter-CESMAD5030/202714807?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-VF-PLA-D27E-Electrical%7c&gclid=CjwKCAiAsejRBRB3EiwAZft7sP9qzioS015yWpTfpjxO2JQtjnQ20EZg6N2brzR-tiBZqb-U8r4aIxoC2OIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CLGI0ZjimdgCFcl8wQods8AP9A
The box I sourced is rated 'IP-67'
IP-67 is 'waterproof' for the purposes of my discussion. "" IP "" = "Ingress Protection" or "what gets in". 6 is "no" dust, and 7 is "Protected against the effects of immersion in water to depth between 15 cm and 1 meter" Water PROOF? No. Not necessary. At the point this box is even 1 foot (~.3M ) underwater, my biggest concerns will NOT be if the breakers are getting wet.
Source - http://www.resourcesupplyllc.com/PDFs/WhatDoesIP67Mean.pdf
Look at your home... Whatever size your main breakers are, they are smaller that ANY breaker between the power company and your main breakers. And I doubt if any of the line breakers are as high an amperage as your main breakers. You don't worry about a 100a breaker feeding a 15a breaker do you.
No, but if you look earlier you will find advice in this thread to have a 50A breaker feeding a 15A cord.. and said cord fed through a window as some may do on a cold winter night.. with no breaker in between. This whole project is to add that protection, and now the GFCI also. An added benefit is that the 30A outlet will now be protected by a proper 30A breaker, not a 50A.
Oh yeah..and lightning protection. I live in the lightning capitol of the US, within 'Lightning Alley'. We plan to have many in-state trips in our coach.
It's certainly your RV, do to it what you want. I am just offering advice.
THANK YOU! For even taking the time to post. I am here seeking advice from people MUCH more versed in RV travel than I am. 2o2
Ok, my last comment. There is NO circuit breaker that will prevent lightning damage to your house's or your RV's wiring.
NOt a strike, but 'lightning damage' ? Home Depot seems to think differently.. ""Siemens
20 Amp 6.5 in. Whole House Surge Protected-Circuit Breaker"" source - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-20-Amp-6-5-in-Whole-House-Surge-Protected-Circuit-Breaker-QSA2020SPDP/202562776 But not really a good match for my project at all. Thats why I am using lightning arresters. https://www.alliedelec.com/hvca-he300/70016352/ one on each leg.
First, the electrons (electricity) in lightning move at the speed of light. Circuit breakers are mechanically open or close the circuit so by the time your breaker opens the circuit, the electricity has already entered your wiring, found a ground and jumped to it.
Good grief. You do have Google right?
1) Electrons move HOW fast? A calculation shows that the electron is traveling at about 2,200 kilometers per second. That's less than 1% of the speed of light, but it's fast enough to get it around the Earth in just over 18 seconds. Source - https://education.jlab.org/qa/electron_01.html
2) Maybe you meant the lightning flash.. The return stroke (the current that cause the visible flash) moves upward at a speed of about 320,000,000 ft per second or about 220,000,000 miles per hour (about 1/3 the speed of light). source - http://www.maine.gov/mema/prepare/prep_display.shtml?163524
Second, the lightning just jumped across about a mile of air (an insulator), do you really think a 1/2 air gap once the breaker opens is going to stop the lightning?
No. Nothing I am aware of will stop a direct lightning strike. Like WATERPROOF, nothing is truly LIGHTNINGPROOF. Perhaps one should consider the source of the majority of lightning strike damages are not the strike itself, but the surrounding effects. ""Lightning can strike the air conductors directly and surge voltages, even from kilometres away, can enter into your installation. This surge voltage is then passed to ground through your equipment which can lead to damage or complete destruction of your equipment."" Little too much info to post here, but it is from South Africa, the Lightning Capital of the WORLD, not just the USA. Well worth reading. Source - http://www.clearline.co.za/how-lightning-affects-electronics
Nuff said.
Well, thank you for the enlightenment. I did learn a few things from your post, hope you did the same. Please do not hesitate to keep posting.