Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: RheaNL on September 12, 2017, 04:38:05 pm
-
We are at the rally in Sisters, Oregon. No smoke and fun times with on exception....
Kermit Fisher spoke at the meeting this morning. He has sold the company. He told us he turned 70 this year and his bucket list is long and he can't work on it and own a business. Something we all understand. He assured us he did not sell to another big manufacturer who would have rolled Phoenix Cruiserx into their own product line.
So sorry to be the teller of bad news but someone had to do it.
-
Wow. I wonder about the timing. Right before the Hershey Show.
Maybe a Super C might become available!
Ron
-
This is sad news but not surprising. Kermit has more than paid his dues in the industry and deserves to enjoy life. I hope he got what he was looking for with the sale? Best of luck to Kermit in retirement and I do hope the dedicated employees can continue to make great motorhomes. Just maybe a new Super C is in the cards! Ron G.
-
Thank you for passing the news along. I wish Kermit many happy, healthy years reaping his rewards. From what little I know of Kermit and his company, he will have taken as much care as possible to ensure that the Phoenix employee team and customer base are taken care of in this time of change. :)(:
-
we are to meet the new owner on Thursday here at Sisters.
-
When we were in Elkhart for our Jul 24th appt it was 2 months + after the sale. So this did not just happen. The change over has been going on a while now. I met Mr Cooper at the plant and received background and their collective talents should be good for the company and the line. They are interested in the line so dont be sad. Better to have someone who is interested in the mix. Give them a chance and you should see continued good things appear before your eyes. We Welcome the Fabulous Duo and together we all can contribute to continued success. Regards, Patricia Serrill-Black
-
I too understand Kermit's reason to sell the company. I commend him in selling it to another individual (or is it two people?) who will try to carry the PC torch, keeping it's legacy alive and well.
It will be interesting to see if the new company owners would consider offering an optional seamless "C" cap along with it's current day B+ cap to provide an over-head bunk which would be ideal for families and also a plus for models 2100 and 2400. Bumping it up only to the height of the a/c unit would be enough. Don't increase the over-all height, something similar to the Winnebago View here.
(https://i1.rvusa.com/crs/rv/2017_Winnebago_View.jpg)
-
I am sad, only because it’s change and Kermit had a formula that worked - hopefully that will continue! For Kermit’s retirement, I would wish him in return all the excitement, new adventures, nature’s beauty, learning opportunities and enjoyment we have experienced in our Phoenix Cruiser – and it’s sure been fun! Thank you!
-
Hmmmmmm There is a Mr Cooper who is (sort of) in the RV business in Elkhart????
https://www.salvage-parts.com/junk-yards/cooper-rv-salvage-elkhart
-
Hmmmmmm There is a Mr Cooper who is (sort of) in the RV business in Elkhart????
https://www.salvage-parts.com/junk-yards/cooper-rv-salvage-elkhart
Let's not speculate, whoever Kermit sold to, I will bet he/she didn't buy Phoenix to run it into the ground.
-
Ron D,
Jim did mention they are interested in adding other RV forms to the line-up, and he mentioned class C as an example. I hope it's not like the View/Navion where the overhead bed has no head room.
-
we are to meet the new owner on Thursday here at Sisters.
?????????????????????????????????????????
-
I too understand Kermit's reason to sell the company. I commend him in selling it to another individual (or is it two people?) who will try to carry the PC torch, keeping it's legacy alive and well.
It will be interesting to see if the new company owners would consider offering an optional seamless "C" cap along with it's current day B+ cap to provide an over-head bunk which would be ideal for families and also a plus for models 2100 and 2400. Bumping it up only to the height of the a/c unit would be enough. Don't increase the over-all height, something similar to the Winnebago View here.
(https://i1.rvusa.com/crs/rv/2017_Winnebago_View.jpg)
Ron...great idea but that View you show is practically 26' long at 11 1/2 high! Probably increase the width as well. Still, it will be interesting where the company evolves.
-
I wish they could do something with the Transit
https://www.rvtrader.com/dealers/Shafer%27s-Truck-%26-RV-Sales-2794418/listing/2018-Winnebago-FUSE-23A-122466357
-
Just a bit of an update on this:
One of the new owners spoke to the Phoenix Travel Club members here in Sisters Oregon on Thursday night. As already mentioned the sale took place about two months ago and part of the agreement is that Kermit will assist with the transition for at least a year. Jim Brynes spoke briefly about himself and his partner Chuck Cooper and noted that they bought Phoenix USA to run it and produce Phoenix Cruiser RV's. They like the line and design philosophy but also mentioned that at some point in the future they might consider other classes. He seemed very interested in opinions and comments from the club members and in general made a very favorable impression on those present.
Kermit noted in his talk that when looking for a buyer he was primarily interested in finding someone who would continue with the design and construction philosophy that he has used, retain and take care of existing employees to the degree possible and continue to operate Phoenix USA as an RV builder instead of folding it into an existing brand. Only time will tell but Mr. Byrnes seemed excited to continue to build the brand going forward.
An official press release was promised and hopefully we can get that published here when that happens.
-
Chuck Cooper is a managing director of BridgePoint. Looks like they are familiar with the RV industry. Note the Berkshire Hathaway/Forrest River advisement.
http://www.bridgepnt.com/industries/
-
Mr Cooper has Six Sigma Certification. Looks like things may get more efficient in all the PC processes. Seems like that is what this company does, then sells it. Hopefully he is in for the long term.
We are interested to see any new models he starts.
Ron
-
I looked at that link and see Phoenix is owned by a private investment group. Historically speaking with investment group purchases, it is bad news concerning "personal attention" for previous customers as nearly everyone here previously purchased a PC. I suspect that when we need help with something, it will be like working with a typical massive RV manufacture, which generally speaking, it isn't a good experience. But just maybe the investment firm will see that a critical part of Phoenix's success is "Real Customer Support & Relations, Long After The Warranty Period Is Over". It's keeping us current owners happy with a quality product and on-going support so much that we help the company promote it's products. What kills many companies is bad internet talk, and even neutral internet talk. If customers are not praising the company and it's products, it's going to be a real strain on the company.
Whatever Phoenix USA morphs into, it's better than Kermit shutting down operations and liquidating all assets.
-
Cooper is also noted as a private investor also, and, of course, they'd use his own M&A company (Bridgepoint) to manage the purchase... Bridgepoint knows all the ins and outs of buying/selling a corporation.
Of course the new owners want to make a profit, that's what businesses are in business for! So looking for growth and efficiency is where you start. You don't do that by killing off the good things a company is doing. You improve what you are doing.
Time will tell.
-
Certainly what Kermit has pulled off ( and he should be congratulated!) is much better compared to the situation that Born Free is in (doors are closed for good) . Only time will tell in what direction this move will take PC in? Consolidation was/is needed in the RV industry for sure.... I just hate to see the little guys getting hurt and they always seem to. I am worried that such a well engineered, well manufactured, niche coach just will not fit into a larger manufacturers lineup and they all want to reduce overhead. Thanks, Ron G.
-
It doesn't take much to do damage to sales, and the pealing vinyl seats was a big turnoff. I am glad they are now using real 100% leather on seating surfaces.
Funny that our 10 year old vinyl seats still look great. Maybe the material was made in the USA back then. Or just a good bolt from China.
-
I do not think they post all sales there, just open inventory. And since many, (most?) rigs are built to order they never show on the website. It looks like the only rigs posted there are either used or ended up in "inventory", maybe built for a show or just filling an empty spot on the line.
Actually a reduction of "new" sales listed on the website might mean an increase in orders since the line might be running full out with orders and not have space for "inventory". Did someone post that their rig got bumped back in order for them to get the Hershey rigs built? Thought I saw that someplace, but cannot find it now.
Jim Byrnes indicated at the meeting last week that the factory was running at capacity and one of the things they were looking at was improving the line efficiency to be able to increase the number of rigs going through during a year.
-
Good Point !
-
Liquid springs on a 2910T? It looks heavy. Adding that to an already maxed out rear is troubling.
The web site is usually updated fairly quickly. Since the show was last week they probably didn't sell. In the past they would reduce slow sellers. Only time will tell if the 2017s get reduced.
Our attraction to PC is the personal touch you get. Hopefully that remains. We are delaying our rv hunting for now due to some personal issues. Hopefully if PC keeps it personal so we can consider them in the future.
Ron
-
To your point about increasing line efficiency and production,
Not my point, just repeating what we were told at the rally. How easy or hard that is to do is way out of my skill set.
PC have plenty of experience choosing what options sell on a inventory stock coach.
I am sure they do but I think you missed my point. Ordered units never appear on the website, only ones that are available and they take the time to post. Looks like they posted the four units that are at the Hershey show and they have two or three 2017's in stock. For a company that sells about 100 rigs a year 6 in stock seems on the low side to me. And four of those were built just for the show. And if I remember right they posted the rigs for the 2017 Hershey Show last year so maybe that is part of their marketing for the show.
Anyway, all I am saying is that I do not think you can read anything into what they have posted for sale / sold on the website. It has little relationship to their bread & butter which is custom ordered coaches that never get shown on the website. The used units are taken in trade and get posted up right away.
-
Jim Byrnes did tell us at the rally that they have retained all previous employees and made some new hires (three maybe?) and done some cleaning/reorganizing at the factory. That covers a couple of the things mentioned as requirements to increase production. Time will tell.
-
They are probably looking ahead for a new chassis considering Ford's planned discontinuation of the E-series cutaway . Maybe something similar to the Dynamax Isata 5? No doubt the 2350 & 2400 will live on in Sprinter form.
-
My hunch is Phoenix Cruiser is being "shopped" as I type, investment companies do not usually like to hold any acquisitions for very long. With no splash announcements by the new owner/owners it raises my suspicions even more. Time will tell for sure.
-
My hunch is Phoenix Cruiser is being "shopped" as I type, investment companies do not usually like to hold any acquisitions for very long. With no splash announcements by the new owner/owners it raises my suspicions even more. Time will tell for sure.
You don't buy and 2 or 3 months later sell and expect to make a profit. So called bottom feeders buy, improve efficiency, cut overhead and overall increase profits for at least a year before the company is sold off.
You need at least a full year's financials to show whatever improvements you have done are long term.
-
Hey, maybe I should buy the company. My wife keeps telling me she want out of Illinois anyway. :)
-
Yes sadly, I have to agree things may be going south over there at PC.
Case in point; I was in communication with Kermit to find a solution for my peeling fake leather on some of my seats. He wanted a photo of them. i sent him the required photo's. No have not heard from him since, after numerous email attempts.
So believe things are not going well there. Very sad, as I cannot show my coach off to perspective shoppers as am embarrassed by the fake leather problems. But maybe, the new owners don't really care about future sales. This would be sad, and not good for us owners.
Denny, and Barb
-
I must say this forum played a huge part in convincing me to buy a new 2016 Phoenix. The positive comments from various PC owners and the overall upbeat nature and willingness to share ideas and provide help when requested gave me a level of confidence I didn’t find on some other RV forums. I subsequently found first hand the prompt, skilled, and courteous service from Kermit and his team which was often mentioned on this forum was for real.
Perhaps I have missed an official announcement either on this forum or on the internet from the new owners. Had it not been for sharing the sale info provided at the Oregon Rally myself and many others would be completely unaware that company had been sold.
I don’t know if the new owners ever monitor this site but if so the unknowing of what direction the new company is going and the uncertainty of future after purchase support of their products would make me less confident in purchasing a PC today. If the deal was indeed closed in early to mid summer I would think that is more than ample time to provide some official clairity from Phoenix. As we all know unknowing and negative speculation can often unfairly paint a picture that may turn costly to a companies success.
I post this not to be negative to the new owners but to provide them one persons perspective on communication or lack there of and hopefully provide them some useful feed back.
-
I must say this forum played a huge part in convincing me to buy a new 2016 Phoenix. The positive comments from various PC owners and the overall upbeat nature and willingness to share ideas and provide help when requested gave me a level of confidence I didn’t find on some other RV forums. I subsequently found first hand the prompt, skilled, and courteous service from Kermit and his team which was often mentioned on this forum was for real.
Perhaps I have missed an official announcement either on this forum or on the internet from the new owners. Had it not been for sharing the sale info provided at the Oregon Rally myself and many others would be completely unaware that company had been sold.
I don’t know if the new owners ever monitor this site but if so the unknowing of what direction the new company is going and the uncertainty of future after purchase support of their products would make me less confident in purchasing a PC today. If the deal was indeed closed in early to mid summer I would think that is more than ample time to provide some official clairity from Phoenix. As we all know unknowing and negative speculation can often unfairly paint a picture that may turn costly to a companies success.
I post this not to be negative to the new owners but to provide them one persons perspective on communication or lack there of and hopefully provide them some useful feed back.
fandj,
I completely agree with you. It would be great if the new ownership of one or two fellows or investment group, would make an announcement on this forum with detailed plans to ease the minds of current and future owners.
At the same time, I am reminded how so many privately owned companies close up instead of sell-off/pass-on when the owner wants to retire or in the case with Born Free, the owner passed away and the heirs didn't want to bother finding a new owner. So the company is gone. My first motor home was a Mirage, a mini version of a Coach House, seamless body but built on a mini pickup chassis. The owner walked away instead of selling off when he wanted out. It is so much better to have the current scenario for Phoenix USA, for it's current PC owners and the people who work at Phoenix, and it's suppliers. I hope Kermit got what he wanted and can retire comfortably.
FWIW, we bought a 1984 Mirage in the fall of 1983. It was built on a 1983 Toyota chassis. The company shut down 2.5 years later in 1986, and we sold that motor home in 2007 to buy our PC. We owned it for 21 years after the company closed up. I was uncomfortable for a few years but eventually adapted to running solo.
-
We attended the 2017 Hershey show and placed an order for a 2552. Imagine my surprise on returning home to check the forum to see that PC had been sold. Nothing was mentioned at the show of the sale. I do agree that the new owners should release some statement on their intent to ease everyone's concern. Having seen several buyouts the question becomes, how do the employees feel? It could lead to better positions for the current employees as they are the knowledge based on building PC's if the owners want to make the company stronger. My wife and I are taking a trip to the plant this weekend, maybe we can get a sense of how things are going.
-
At the same time, I am reminded how so many privately owned companies close up instead of sell-off/pass-on when the owner wants to retire or in the case with Born Free, the owner passed away and the heirs didn't want to bother finding a new owner.
Actually the heirs sold the company (Born Free) to a "group of investors" and within about 9 mos. the company closed.
-
At the same time, I am reminded how so many privately owned companies close up instead of sell-off/pass-on when the owner wants to retire or in the case with Born Free, the owner passed away and the heirs didn't want to bother finding a new owner.
Actually the heirs sold the company (Born Free) to a "group of investors" and within about 9 mos. the company closed.
Really! I did not know that. Hopefully Phoenix won't follow suit.
-
Please let us know what you find at the factory. We are scheduled to pickup our 2552 in a few weeks. The communication from them has noticeably dropped off the past few weeks.
Thanks, John
-
Will do. I just called the factory and was reassured that the company is not going away. The company was sold to two gentlemen (mentioned in an early part of this thread) and they have hired and engineer to replace Kermit and one other person. Kermit was handling two jobs. So I'm going to keep the faith and look forward to our delivery early next year.
-
We were at the factory last week to take a look at the 3100 that came back from Hershey. We made 2 prior trips to the factory in the last year (met with Kermit once and with Earl once) to see production, get questions answered, etc, but we've never gotten to see a finished 3100 in the flesh. That is the model we are ordering next spring. We met with one of the new execs (not an owner). He was very informative, helpful, and pleasant. He showed us the 3100, answered our questions, and if he didn't know the answer, he found out for us. We talked to a couple employees who were helpful and upbeat. This 3rd visit was no different from the prior 2, in terms of atmosphere. In fact, this visit seemed to indicate more things going on and more people doing things, more units, more activity. Several units were going out the door (picked up by new owners). We spoke to a couple who was there to get an issue resolved on their 2016 PC, and they were positive about the company. We got to drive the 3100 and we were not rushed at all. It was our 3rd visit and it was a great one. It made us feel good about our decision to place our order next spring. So, not sure if this will help, but just thought we'd share. We are very positive! 2o2
-
When we stopped at the factory enroute back to PA from Sisters, OR, things were humming. There were six used units with "sold" signs on them,, a lady from Kansas was picking up her new unit. Another 2552 was picked during the night we were there. (Yes, the plug in is still hanging on the fence) My trade in 2351 was sitting in the lot with a sold sign on it. There were 19 Ford chassis in the rear, most I have ever seen. No MB chassis. Earl told me they had sold nine units at the Hershey show, most ever. Don't see any problems. (WH)
-
Very glad to hear the upbeat reports from recent visitors to the factory. We are among the nine people who ordered a new PC (a 2552 with no slide) at last month's Hershey show, and I had been a bit discouraged at the thought that the excellent service and support received by so many forum members in the past might be changing. Then I got a phone call from Earl yesterday following up on a detail on our order. He was on top of the situation and as positive as ever, as was the buyer he conferred with during the call, whom I heard off-mic. So, like most forum members, I'm hoping for the best.
John
-
Kermit was handling two jobs.
Just Two??? roflol
-
Well think about it, its really 4 to 1. Two new owners and 2 new positions. That's what we know, may be more! :)
-
I have been on many forums about sailboats, particularly when companies reorganize, are sold. I think it behoves us all to refrain from speculating about the PC future based upon individual anecdotal experience.
-
I have been on many forums about sailboats, particularly when companies reorganize, are sold. I think it behoves us all to refrain from speculating about the PC future based upon individual anecdotal experience.
Yup! (exactly) 2o2
-
At the rally Mr. Brynes gave us the impression he was going to run the company and make RV's not sell the company off. I have no idea why the new owner would fly 2,500 miles, stay in a campground with a bunch of his customers and spend literally hours asking us questions about what we thought (both good and bad) and actually listening to the answers and taking notes and then turn around and sell the company. Doesn't make any sense to me.
Of course time will tell and even the best intentions do not always work out but my impression after visiting with Jim is that he is really excited to be the owner of Phoenix USA and to continue building a quality product. He spent at least a half hour in my rig going over the customization's that had been made. He asked me questions about why I wanted them done, how they were working out and how the customization process had worked between me and the factory. Not the conversation I would expect from somebody who is going to flip the company in six months.
I do wish they would put out something official and actually announce the sale and introduce the owners. Silence is never good for inspiring confidence. But having been involved in similar situations I can imagine they have a lot going on just trying to get up to speed and understand what they just bought. As others have already said random speculation does no good except to spawn even more speculation and rumor.
-
Jim Byrnes was kind enough to drive my wife and me to the concert in Bend at the rally, and that, coupled with over an hour at Octoberfest, :-D, gave us a chance to know him a little better. He is a very sharp and personable young man, and I firmly believe, quite intent in building Phoenix, but for the better. Yes, his partner has done a few turnarounds, and that may come later, but I don't think Jim has anything in mind but improving the company and product.
On product improvement, there are of course some areas, but I don't know of many RVs or trailers, that one can pick up at the factory, and a couple weeks later drive across our country from DE to CA with many stops in between for a month and a half and not have a malfunction or issue!!!
Keep the faith, kids!!!
Jack
-
Thanks for your insight Jack, and Happy Birthday.. heard the unit we saw at the plant in July was a selfie birthday present.
Great Choice. And so good to have your insight. We met Mr Cooper at the plant when we were there Jul 24th.
Regards, Patricia
-
Thanks Patricia for the wishes -- yes, there goes the kids inheritance!!!
All the best,
Jack