Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thomas4854 on April 26, 2017, 08:31:16 am
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Are 2 AC units in 2552 really close together? Noise factor is the main reason we're considering 2 vs 1 larger unit. Appreciate input from owners with 2 units. Thanks.
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Last September while in Myrtle Beach (sitting in the direct sun) our standard unit was having problems with the heat and humidity. It was so bad I had the local "at site service guy" look at it. He said it worked better than the new unit he had just installed on my buddies 5th wheel. I sure wish I had two units for day time use. I would use just the front unit at night. Keep in mind that if you close the door to the bedroom, you are closing off the air flow also. Then you might want to use the rear unit at night. I will say that way back in time I was in the Navy and learned to sleep through anything. So a/c units don't keep me awake.
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Even the larger A/C on our non-slide works really hard when hot and humid and the fan is super noisy so that we have trouble hearing the TV. If the smaller unit is quieter and can control 2 of them independently then would be great for the big PCs with slides and am sure they can be put almost anywhere you would want.
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I have only the single larger unit, which has never worked so I have no idea how much noise it makes :)
But I have seen a number of posts on this forum stating that the smaller units actually are noisier than the larger unit. Of course that is subjective, and a change in brand or model over the years might have more to do with the difference than just the size.
The biggest advantages I see of having two units are 1) duplication, in case one unit fails you can still operate until repairs are made and 2) if you run the front unit when you are in back and the back unit when you are in front, it MIGHT make the noise seem less and 3) if you need the additional cooling in hot humid climates. I believe the large unit is 15k btu and the smaller ones 13.5k btu so two units have a much larger capacity than a single large one.
We went with one unit because we wanted solar panels and needed the roof space.
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No matter what, air conditioners are loud. I have had both ducted and unducted units. The only a/c I have ever heard thar is quiet are in class A motorhomes where the a/c is in the 'basement'
Two is always better than 1. The 13,500 BTU in our 2551 simply can't keep up when the temp gets over 87 or so. I wish I had 2 of them. That way I could keep the fans on low. For my 2551, I am sure that'd be plenty.
Understand, you'll need 50 amp (220v) wiring and the generator will only run one of them.
My last RV had a 15,000 BTU a/c in it, that RV was a bit smaller than my PC and it had the same issue when it got higher than 87 or so outside. So I don't think that's the answer.
Just my 2 cents.
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As far as location of two units on the 2552 I believe one is along the centerline and between the microwave and pantry, the other along the centerline between both beds close to the bathroom door. Not a huge distance apart, but the two different 'rooms' they serve would provide some noise baffling between the two.
I've tried researching noise levels of different models from different companies and found precious little regarding technical specs or advertised sound levels (actual decibels) Different designs of different brands at different times can have significant impact on noise. Noise can emanate from motors, fan blades, etc. On the Coleman Mach 8 15,000 BTU unit, which I have, there were changes made to the fan blades over the recent years which reduced noise. On other companies units, the diffusers were recently redesigned to reduce noise. Personally, I think the diffuser makes a huge impact on noise. Trying to disperse and divert air by pushing it over fins and flaps creates a racket (remove your ceiling diffuser and see the difference)
Knowing as much (or as little) as I do now, I would have specified two non-heatpump units (one 13.5k and one 15k btu) with high CFM rates (they apparently range from 275-350 or so), multiple fan speeds and well engineered diffuser/motor/blade designs. For us, very low roof profiles (like our Mach 8) or savings of a couple hundred dollars (Dometic) are not as important as good performance and reduced noise. We like nice sunny weather but aren't terribly comfortable at temps over 100 degrees or at very high humidity levels, so two units would have made us much happier.
- Mike
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On the 2552 you could have 2 A/C units 10' apart. Use front where the vent is now and the back where the Fantastic fan is.
The Fantastic fan could go where A/C is now.
Plenty of room as long as you don't need roof for anything else.
I only camp in the winter and almost never run our A/C at all, but I like it hot.
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Just for the record for people who wonder about the 2350 with no slide-out. The standard a/c unit works great in over 100 degree temps, but you have to do well at blocking out the sun in the cab area, and use your awnings to keep the sun off the thermal pane windows. Depending on how bad the heat is, you may have to sacrifice the bathroom. Keep that door closed and let it cook in there.
And don't be opening the entry door all the time. :)
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Keelhauler, your idea is exactly what we decided on talking to Earl today! Great minds think alike, I hope. BTW, we lived in Avon, Ohio 2003-2008 before moving back south.
Thank you for the input everyone. Planning on finalizing this tomorrow so I can move on and worry about other things. 😬
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Keelhauler, your idea is exactly what we decided on talking to Earl today! Great minds think alike, I hope. BTW, we lived in Avon, Ohio 2003-2008 before moving back south.
Thank you for the input everyone. Planning on finalizing this tomorrow so I can move on and worry about other things. 😬
"Other things" - all the cool RV/Camping toys and gotta have items to go IN your new RV. Enjoy the anticipation!
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I love to read the excitement of new owners ordering their PC "Just Right" for them. Enjoy your research Thomas!
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I recently added a 15000 BTU AC to my 3100. needed also to ad an additional 30 AMP ckt. The new unit is very quiet and cools the entire coach. Camping world charged us about $2k for the wiring ,unit and install. Very happy at we have two AC units. We live in Florida.. It is already over 90 degrees and its only April.
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Hey Thomas 4854! We are in Spanish Fort when we are home. Have had the new to us 2552 PC since Oct and love it. If you want to get together give us a shout.
Marilyn, Tom and the three traveling cats.
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Cat House, I sent you a PM.
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Capt Ron, 2 grand sounds reasonable to me considering the wiring etc. What brand and size unit did you have installed?
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Are you getting the ladder? If so it is mounted to the right of the bathroom vent and the top part of the ladder takes the first 6 inches of the roof. In your bottom layout, you would be stepping on the solar panel. Also you want to condsider where inside the a/c units will be. Phoenix gets the roof and walls already made up with the braces in set positions. Make sure you and Earl are on the same page before ordering. You don't want any surprises on delivery day.
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Tom,
I think the rear of the motor home is to the right. If I am correct, renotse should be able to step from the ladder onto the roof in any of the three scenarios, but would immediately need to step over the bathroom vent in the 3rd one.
It appears that he could place as many as six 100-watt solar panels.
Ron Dittmer
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Ron I understand that the rear of the coach is to the right. The ladder is to the drawing top (right) of the bathroom vent, and the shower dome is to the left of the vent. The ladder has hand rails that prude about 6 inches on the top of the roof. Centered in between them is the black tank vent. One can not step there or to the left or right, off the edge. One might be able to step left over the vent, in between the vent and the dome, but if you slip, you are going to crush one of them and you will never have any more kids. When I climb the ladder I have to step forward about a foot over the black tank vent. Maybe Phoenix has moved the black tank vent since my 2552 was built. Best to check with Earl where the black and gray vents are now a days. I don't see them in any of the above drawings.
Also if he is going to put vent covers over any of the vents, he needs to account for the added size.
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Ah, Thanks Tom For the detailed clarity. It makes sense.
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Another option you may want to consider is using the Max Fan Deluxe in lieu of the Fantastic Fan. It has a built in rain shield cover which is lower profile than the Fantastic Fan optional rain cover to reduce solar panel shading during low angle sun periods. The Max Fan also has 10 speed. I have had both manufacturers fans in various camping units and prefer the Max Fan. When we ordered our 2552 we elected to have the optional vent and three Max Fans installed. We attempt to choose our camping destinations where we are able to be comfortable with the fans only. The non ducted air conditioners are in my opinion excessively noisy.
We have two 160 watt panels mounted on the rear. We anticipated we might want to add two more 160 watt panels in the front but so far have not seen a need to add them.
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When we ordered our 2552 we elected to have the optional vent and three Max Fans installed. We attempt to choose our camping destinations where we are able to be comfortable with the fans only. The non ducted air conditioners are in my opinion excessively noisy.
THREE Max Fans in a 2552? "WOW" with all 3 running, it must get quite windy inside. Are you certain one would not be sufficient? It seems to me that if you put one Max Fan or Fantastic fan in the rear bathroom, and open a "forward" screened window, you would have plenty of flow-thru ventilation.
In our 2350, we have a Fantastic roof vent in the bedroom area and a generic power vent in the bathroom. They are only a couple feet apart from each other with the bathroom wall in between them. I wished I had foreseen 10 years back when ordering ours, that we could have placed the quality-made Fantastic fan in the bathroom and have one less major hole in our roof. Then add a vent above the bath door mirror to allow air to pass through the door when closed. Have it louver-controlled so we could close it off for throne-time privacy.
Those of you who know me, know that I am not into extra holes....ceiling vents, slide outs, crank-up antennas, ladders & roof racks and such. Speaking of which I wish we had a 360 degree fixed antenna available back in 2007. Our crank-up added a pile of holes, a plate and a tube full of caulk in the beautiful B+ roof. :'( If we ever had to replace our B+ cap for any reason, that dang antenna is going with it.
It's just some thoughts after owning ours for so long now. I am not suggesting rentse follows along. He needs to do what is right for him.
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Ron, actually with three fans running they are quieter than alternately running one fan moving the same amount of air as the sum of three fans. The Max Fan 10 speed models when running in the lower speed range are significantly quieter than the Fantastic fans when operated at their lowest speed.
As to your question would one fan be enough I suppose much of the time the answer would be yes if it was just a matter of airflow as we almost never run our fans at maximum speed. We were looking for adequate airflow at low noise levels which is important to us to enhance our overall camping experience. Most of our summer camping trips are to the higher elevation NFS campgrounds in the Virginia or North Carolina mountains or western state mountains where AC is typically not needed so our needs/desires no doubt differ from other PC owners.
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Looks from that drawing that there might be room for two more up forward. Nice layout. Though without additional battery capacity not sure how useful they would be.
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I have two 160 watt panels for the 220 ah bank or approx 1.5 watts per ah which is very similar to yours. I think you will find higher panel output closer to the "sweet spot" than the 1.0 ratio. As you know panel output ratings are at ideal conditions which seldom happens. Marginal weather and low seasonal sun angles i suspect will make you glad you went higher than 1.0.
I also have the ability to add two more 160 watt panels but based on what I have seen without additional battery capacity I would almost never be able to use the added panel capacity while limiting my charging voltage to 14.7 - 14.8 volts. Though replacing the existing lead acid batteries with Lithium batteries looks interesting and would accommodate the extra panels I don't think with our typical power consumption it could be justified.
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Hopefully this photo satisfies your needs. Unfortunately I don't have a high enough vantage point to get the full roof.
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Fandj
Do you have problems with the vent putting a shadow on your arrays. Shadows take array output to near zero.
That is why I moved the antenna to get my arrays up front and I seldom use the front vent.
With that and low sun angles and clouds you get way less current from your arrays then you planned for.
So even with 2 batteries, I'll bet 4 arrays would be good.
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Fandj
Do you have problems with the vent putting a shadow on your arrays. Shadows take array output to near zero.
That is why I moved the antenna to get my arrays up front and I seldom use the front vent.
With that and low sun angles and clouds you get way less current from your arrays then you planned for.
So even with 2 batteries, I'll bet 4 arrays would be good.
Shading was certainly a concern in designing my solar charging system. I elected to go with 3 MaxxFans which are significantly lower profile than the Fantastic Fan rain covers. PHoenix mounted my King antenna front and center of the roof to minimize shading should I decide to add two more panels in the future. I also considered connecting the panels in series to my MPPT controller but discarded this idea as even a small amount of shading on one panel essentially kills the total array output. Instead if connected in parallel and one panel is shaded and the other not I still have the output from the unshaded panel.
From what I have seen using my Victron power monitor I typically use 20 % or less of battery charge with most overnight usage being 10% or less. With this relatively small usage the batteries are typically returned to 100 % state of charge by noon. Typically what I see after about 9:00 -10:00 am is the controller reducing the panel output to limit the charging voltage to 14.7 - 14.8 volts.
No doubt adding two more panels would bring the charging voltage up to 14.7 volts quicker but since I typically see 100 % SOC by mid day I don't see much benefit of adding additional panels. Should my power consumption go up because I change out the current absorption refrigerator to a residential style compressor model and or run the microwave or other higher power consuming loads the additional panels would be more valuable. The other scenario that I could foresee where the additional panels could be justified is if we did a lot of winter camping (lower sun angle and greater furnace usage) without electrical hookup. Currently our winter camping has been in Florida with hookups.
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This is what dual 15k (heat pump) A/C looks like on a 2018 2552 with retro paint in Greystone.
I'll post a better picture when we get it home.
I like your green exterior paint job. I wished we ordered the green FBP job back in 2007 but there were no pictures to look at back then, only a poor color photo copy of a copy of which all the choices looked terrible. We did see a FBP blue in the yard at the time and didn't care for it and so we got gun shy about the green, so we went the safe route and went with the gray FBP as shown nicely on the front cover of the 2007 brochure. It took maybe 3 years before we seen a good picture of a green one and wished we took the risk. We really like the green shown here on a 2006. A 2007 would be the same.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/mot-production/vehicles/images/658/full/2006-Phoenix-Cruiser-2551-26.5_%281_of_26%29.jpg?1389649615)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/mot-production/vehicle_images/images/11796/full/2006-Phoenix-Cruiser-2551-26.5_%282_of_26%29.jpg?1389649690)
For reference, here is our 2007 FBP gray.....not bad, but not ideal for the two of us.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3495/3743987425_a84c364696_b.jpg)
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Oh, sorry....I got what you got and I like the green better (WH)
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Why do the dual 15k (heat pump) A/C units look different? One is taller than the other?
Ron
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Oh, sorry....I got what you got and I like the green better shrug
There was a green paint FBP rig at the Sister's rally. It got a lot of comments about the paint scheme. Looked very nice to me and to many others. I believe the owner said he bought it used and had only seen one other rig with that color. Someone mentioned that color was only made one year but I am not positive if that is correct or not.
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Oh, sorry....I got what you got and I like the green better shrug
There was a green paint FBP rig at the Sister's rally. It got a lot of comments about the paint scheme. Looked very nice to me and to many others. I believe the owner said he bought it used and had only seen one other rig with that color. Someone mentioned that color was only made one year but I am not positive if that is correct or not.
The green I have pictured higher up was offered for a number of years, maybe 2005-2008....I am guessing.