Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: dickreid1 on February 12, 2017, 09:38:26 pm
-
In 2015 PC graciously replaced the vinyl on the drivers chair and a Euro chair. Unfortunately, the new vinyl is again flaking on the Euro chair. Now the passenger chair and both vinyl sleeper seats are flaking. I fear for the resale value after only five years.
I would like to get a feel for what the group experience has been before I talk to Kermit.
How old is your vinyl? Have you had flaking? To what degree? Did replacements also flake? What do you think a normal lifetime of vinyl should be? Advice? Suggestions?
-
We purchased our 2010 2350 in 2014. The front drivers seat was peeling slightly. Within a year it was so bad that we had to brush ourselves off after getting out. We had the seat reupholstered. Our guy said it was a very low quality vinyl. Shortly after, the passenger seat started peeling and deteriated very quickly. Had it covered. Then this fall, the sofa started peeling. It is being recovered as I type. We never contacted PC since we certainly had no desire to have Paul's seating touch our coach. We've never had this happen in three prior motorhomes, nor in any vehicle we ever owned.(usually tour cars were leather.). Our two seats are just like they were the day we picked them up, of course it has only been a couple of seasons on the first seat. This cost us nearly $1000, still cheaper than buying new seats. Hopefully this will last us till we are ready to sell.
-
Our Phoenix is a purchased new, 2013 and we picked her up in May of that year. By fall we were on the road full time for almost 2 years. We were on that leather/vinyl a LOT. We've used the one side of the couch as a bed and it is my usual sitting spot. John lives in the euro chair when we are not outside. The seats have been seriously frozen and overheated on several occasions. We spent months in weather so dry my nose hurt inside and then months in so much moisture we bought a dehumidifier for the coach. All that said, we've had no problems. You can't tell the difference between the heavily used side of the couch and the other side.
I really hope I haven't jinxed us with this posting. We DO have our beach towels on the seats most of the time now just to avoid the dirt and sweat we drag in after hiking but from what I see in the pictures, the cracking isn't just where human sweat or cleaning products would be. We also close all the blinds and screen the front when we store the rig in the open so the sun doesn't beat into her.
I'm hoping it is just a bad batch of material or they changed their process and need to change again. Are there postings on other forums with the same problem in other coaches?
-
Has anyone ever been told of corrective action taken by PC and Paul's seating about this issue? (WH)
-
Our driver's seat and Euro Chair are both flaking. I would like Phoenix or Paul's, to make good on this. And not by just replacinng fabric with cheap junk again.
-
I just talked to Kermit about a new sofa in fabric, not ultra leather; and in the fabric vs ultra leather discussion, Kermit said the flaking was likely due to improper chemical cleaner application or hair products by owners. I did not dispute this since the sofa issue ended up a non event for us; but I could have pointed out that the ultra leather driver and passenger chairs skirts in our 2012 Sprinter 2400 are flaked almost to the underlying fabric, and the previous owner told me she had never used any type of upholstery cleaner on the seats. I think ultra leather from the 2010-2012 era and perhaps other years might be a weak spot in Phoenix's otherwise stellar reputation. . .just sayin'. (WH) :)(:
-
I agree that this, in our instance at least, is not due to hair products, cause the headrests did not have an issue AND we don't use ANY hair products. For myself, we did not use any cleaners either. The biggest clue is where the peeling started. Our problem was nothing we could have caused or contributed to. Sorry Earl. :) :)
-
I think ultra leather from the 2010-2012 era and perhaps other years might be a weak spot in Phoenix's otherwise stellar reputation.
I started a pole in the "Poles" section to collect the data on people experiencing the ultra-leather disintegration.
-
I started a pole in the "Poles" section to collect the data on people experiencing the ultra-leather disintegration.
Thanks Ron! I Think this will halp to understand whether this is a widespread problem or limited, and whether ongoing or transitional.
I emaled Earl on it and his response was that there was a material issue affecting 2010-2011 years (and affected other manufacturers as well). Beyond that he said he recalls only a couple of others and they were traceable to the use of Armorall, which reportedly can damage the material.
-
We have a 2013 and the seats and sofa were reupholstered.
Now all the other vinyl (around tv, doorway, all the panels above floors and near cabinets) is flaking and peeling. :'(
-
We have a 2013 and the seats and sofa were reupholstered.
Now all the other vinyl (around tv, doorway, all the panels above floors and near cabinets) is flaking and peeling. :'(
That is sad. What a mess you have to deal with.
This issue is across the entire upholstery industry. We bought a pair of leather couches from Costco for our greatroom back in 2014. The seating surfaces are leather, but everything around that is vinyl. During the past 3 years, the vinyl has been flaking, now accelerating. At a glance, you don't notice it being in the cracks and crevices and on the back side, but the day is coming when they will need to be replaced.... so sad.
We have an upholstered chair that we rarely sit on being in a spare bedroom. Same flacking.
China stiffed America with inferior vinyl. I wonder if it got straightened out or if the problem remains in 2023.
-
FosterMJD
I see you live in Florida. I just had my driver’s, passenger seat and our power couch recovered at TnT RV Services. They are located at 2211 E Norvell Bryant Hwy. in Hernando, FL. Phone # 352-613-9867. It is a husband and wife team and they are extremely honest and their prices are very fair. Tina and Tony are their names and they live at their site location and their lot is completely fenced in so you don’t need to worry about security for your rv. Tina will recover in any material that you want her too. She does an excellent job. Tony also does work on rvs. You can look at their website and see all of the positive reviews. Not sure how far you are from Hernando but I thought that I would let you know that there is someone out there that is honest and does good work.
Sharon
-
One more thing that I forgot to add, I did not need to give them a deposit in order to get the work done. I found that to be very positive in today’s environment. I picked out the color and material that I wanted her to use ahead of time so she had it when I brought in our PC. She has great samples for you to look at but she said she will use anything you want her to. On the down side, I had to wait three months from the time we scheduled it to get it done. They are busy but will work with you on a time frame if they can.
-
We had the flaky issue on our seats and all interior surfaces on our 2012. We had the seats reupholstered at an automotive shop and we did the other surfaces ourselves. We decided to use the automotive vinyl versus leather or ultra leather. We ordered extra material from an automotive material manufacturer. It was very reasonably priced. They sent us color samples and we picked the color that matched our existing PC color.
It was a little intimidating at first but soon realized the most you had to do was to take the trim off the cabinets on the inside, loosen the cabinet but leave it attached to the wall and then remove the pieces that needed recovering. I made patterns from the old ultra leather and then we proceeded to recover everything, including the valences. It does take two people to attach the new material and an electric staple gun is your friend.
Our coach looks brand new on the inside. We are very pleased.
-
We had the flaky issue on our seats and all interior surfaces on our 2012. We had the seats reupholstered at an automotive shop and we did the other surfaces ourselves. We decided to use the automotive vinyl versus leather or ultra leather. We ordered extra material from an automotive material manufacturer. It was very reasonably priced. They sent us color samples and we picked the color that matched our existing PC color.
It was a little intimidating at first but soon realized the most you had to do was to take the trim off the cabinets on the inside, loosen the cabinet but leave it attached to the wall and then remove the pieces that needed recovering. I made patterns from the old ultra leather and then we proceeded to recover everything, including the valences. It does take two people to attach the new material and an electric staple gun is your friend.
Our coach looks brand new on the inside. We are very pleased.
I'm in the same situation with my driver and passenger seats, and couch. Can you share what sort of automotive shop you had this done at and an approximate price? Automotive vinyl would be fine for me if it holds up better. My seats are down to the fabric underneath. I have seat covers on them now but the seats underneath look horrible and are embarrassing in an otherwise nice motorhome. I certainly could never sell the MH in this kind of condition and I might be needing to do that in the near future..
-
We used a local car restoration shop that restores hot rods and antique cars. We shopped around at different upholstery shops and even though we paid a lot they were the most reasonable. Upholstery shops wanted 3-4 thousand dollars and we got this done for 2 thousand. This was just for the captains chairs and extra material.
We priced new chairs but couldn’t find any that allowed both chairs to swivel. We are on our third winter with them and they still look brand new.
-
My 2016 model 2351's upholstery (driver and passenger) were fine till about 2 years ago. Its getting to the point where I need to replace the covers. I was refered to Pauls in Elkhart. I believe they provided the orginals. Anyone know if thats a good or bad option for purchasing new covers.
Thanks!
Kathleen
-
Whether going with Paul's for recovering/restoring, or changing seats entirely, I would only consider 100% real leather on "EVERY" surface, or 100% cloth. I could never trust vinyl as an upholstery option.
After the great recession of 2008/2009, the vinyl material has been imported from China instead of "Made In USA". The China made vinyl flakes. The USA made does not. Our 2007 vinyl seating from Paul's remains in great shape. Once the old USA stock was used up, the problem started to surface around model year 2009/2010. It is not a Phoenix Cruiser problem alone. It is across the entire RV industry, from motorhomes to travel trailers, 5th wheels, whatever.
-
Naugahyde (automotive vinyl) is still manufactured in the USA. This is what we used to redo our PC. So not all vinyl is manufactured in China. It was a lot less expensive then 100% real leather and has been around for over 50 years.
Naugahyde is made in Wisconsin and we felt it was our best option for price, maintenance and durability.
I think it is a personal choice for people to use what they feel will work for them. Just like shocks, some preferred Koni while others preferred Bilstein. But neither one is right or wrong. It’s all a matter of personal choice. Some prefer to have levelers installed, others not. Again, personal choice. Some prefer full body paint, others not. Again it is all personal choice.
-
Naugahyde (automotive vinyl) is still manufactured in the USA. This is what we used to redo our PC. So not all vinyl is manufactured in China. It was a lot less expensive then 100% real leather and has been around for over 50 years.
Naugahyde is made in Wisconsin and we felt it was our best option for price, maintenance and durability.
Interesting!!!
I did not know that. I thought all upholstery vinyl since the Great Recession of 2008/2009 has been imported from China. Thankyou Barry-Sue for sharing that valuable information.
-
Ultra leather :'(
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fCSW1eCs90s
So it turns out that the elusive Nauga didn’t really go extinct from years of overharvesting after all. :bolt