Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: gandalf42 on February 09, 2017, 06:48:55 pm
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Intro: We have been RV’n for around 10 years, putting 90K miles on a 27’ 1999 Born Free purchased in 2006. Our travel style is being a tourist, seeing things and moving on. We have never towed a car. Although we don’t boondock a lot, I like the RV to be boondock-able.
I have placed our order for a 2552. Began talking to Earl as far back as August, and started sending lists of general questions and option questions in November.
It has been an extended discussion between Earl and I. I appreciate his continued patience with my seemingly endless list of questions and I expect he’s happy to move on to other, less questioning customers. I also appreciate the help many have given through this forum. tymote
Guestimated delivery is mid-May :-D
RV and options:
2552 no slide, insulated windows
Graystone exterior 2-tone full paint with dark: front cap and lower third, light: upper 2/3’s, no swirls
Reason: darker areas for where it gets the dirtiest
Sofa (front half will extend into bed)
Passenger side bed slide, driver side bed extended to same length of 74”
3 backup cameras: 2 back, 1 front: to eliminate all close in blind spots and have one view distance
2000W pure sine wave inverter
Progressive Dynamics 60A converter/charger
Progressive Industries surge suppressor EMS-HW30C
2 Lifeline AGM 300AHr GPL-6CT
110 outlets added to inverter, 12V & USB outlets added to shirt closets
Driver swivel base
Cab floor insulated
Safety Steer Plus
3100 style cabinet behind passenger seat
Upgrade AC to 15K & heat pump
Rear cap style with spare tire
Wired for external sat dish
Extend-a-stay connection line into RV
Backer board added several places where wallboard is thin
Custom fabric chosen for valences and curtains
Added adjustable shelves, kitchen mod’ed to 6 drawers
Lighted switch for tank heaters
Toilet sprayer
Sliding windows
2 MaxxAir fans (living room and bedroom)
Eliminate outside shower
I hope to have AM Solar put in solar this fall and also be able to join the reunion in Sisters.
Reasons for some of the controversial choices:
No Slide: I am probably anachronistic but I remain suspicious of electro-mechanical parts. The last time I saw a list, the top three failing parts in an RV were the slide, electric steps, and levelers. Between these suspicions, concern of something failing when way out somewhere, and having done fine without a slide in the Born Free the past 10 years, I chose this option.
The no slide also provides additional storage, no power consumption, and better shell integrity.
“yes but what about the sofa?” The front half of the sofa will still extend into a bed and with the one side bed extension the RV will still sleep 4.
No Euro chair: Without a slide there is no room for a Euro chair if you extend the sofa. We opted for the 3100 style cabinet instead and to have the swivel base added to the driver’s chair.
Sliding vs Jalousie windows: An open slide window provides a 50% wide open opening vs a jalousie window provides a 25-30% opening with a angled window in front. It’s nice to have an optimal, passive opening when things get warm and there is a nice breeze.
3 cameras: My current backup camera has the “far rear view” and I have had some close encounters because of the blind spots near the front and back bumpers. The three cameras will allow a rear far, a rear near and a front near view.
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As another Colorado owner, welcome to the family--almost. Not too many PC owners in Colorado. We are in Glenwood Springs.
Nicki
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As another Colorado owner, welcome to the family--almost. Not too many PC owners in Colorado. We are in Glenwood Springs.
Nicki
Thanks! Glenwood Springs is a pretty area. We are in Fort Collins.
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RV and options:
Safety Steer Plus
Backer board added several places where wallboard is thin
I'm leaning heavily towards a 2551 or 2552 and I have some questions if you wouldn't mind sharing some more of your thoughts. I've been talking with Earl about multiple alterations to fit our needs, but I'm curious about some of your choices.
The two main options that I'm curious about are the two above. What is the Safety steer plus and what areas did you add backer board and how did you know it was needed?
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I'm sure Gandalf42 will jump in but in the mean time:
The Safety Plus is a steering stabilizer: http://www.safe-t-plus.com/
The backer is behind the "trunk" wall. In the stock unit there is thick backing material only where needed for the standard hooks. This might be just fine but if you want the ability to move hooks or add your own then the wall needs beefed up to support that. Sounds simple but there is an added cost and also an increased weight which is critical on units of this size. Every ounce counts and reduces payload someplace else so every change must be weighed against need.
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Aside from recommendations on this site and others we ultimately chose to have Safe-T-Plus installed on our 2552 after watching this video (it's a bit dated I think, but the info is relevant) The most interesting portion starts halfway through the video where they show how large vehicles handle when there is a front tire blowout...
https://youtu.be/aT2RbQZtFx8
- Mike
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Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer: As has been mentioned, this is a big help if you ever have a front blow out. It also helps making steering easier when dealing with ruts, pot holes, and when a tire gets off of the edge of the highway. It is worth it to me both as a form of insurance/protection for myself and family (blow outs) and ease of driving (all else). PC also added a front end alignment to the list when I had them add the Safe-T- Plus. Another good thing to have as some chasis can be out of alignment, affecting the driveability.
I have a steering stabilizer on my current rig and noticed the difference after installation. While I added other improvements to my current rig (Koni shocks and rear track bar) I plan to "wait and see" on other additions for the PC. The PC has a wider wheel base and no overhead cab and may not need as many mods.
I plan to be out in Oregon for the rally and by that trip should know if additions are needed. Oregon is a good place to add things being the home to Henderson's Lineup.
Backer Board: The rear trunk was mentioned and I asked for that. In general though I really dislike veneer walls! I have asked for some strength to be added to them. I identified the walls around the toilet, the walls by the front and foot of the beds and the walls of the 3100 style cabinet. (I may have missed some so current owners can speak up here).
Yes you have to be careful about weight but I don't have a slide (which I believe is around 450#) or levelers (also hundreds of #s) so I should have some play room.
..Mike
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I have a 2011 2552 that I bought used from the factory. This is my 4th motorhome and the only one I've owned without levelers
and I wish I had them on this unit. I've spent many afternoons in either the hot blazing sun or cold blowing wind or rain trying
to put enough leveling blocks ender the wheels to achieve some degree of level. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
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Paw Paw, you can still get the levelers installed. Ask Phoenix where to go. Their installer would be your best choice since they install them all the time on brand new fully completed Phoenix Cruisers.
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Yes, the levelers are added after the PC RV is fully built. Levelers are a nice convenience and I debated whether to add them to the list. Earl's suggestion was to leave them off since I was unsure and they could always be added later.
Why the debate? Well I was at my pain point of what I wanted to pay for a new RV and levelers would add another $3700 (more or less). I like their convenience but we have gotten by without them the last 10 years. After the first couple of months, I stopped leveling all together. As long as we can park where our heads are higher than our feet to sleep we are good. The "house" may be a little tipped but not a big deal.
Many folks get the RV super level for the refrigerator but the level specs required for safe operation is 7+ inches per direction. That's a noticeable hill within an RV and not one I could tolerate when parked for the night. (Well, there was one night in Canada but that's another story). :)
..Mike
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We ordered our PC nearly 10 years ago. I had decided to wait and see about adding levelers. We still don't have them, managing okay without them. I admit there are times (thankfully rare) when I wished we had them.
Does anyone know the safe limit in using PC levelers? How many inches (front to back difference) can they adjust to be made level on a badly angled parking pad? I occasionally will see a big class A with the front tires in the air. Can PC levelers do that, or are they good only for some inches? How many inches can PC levelers safely raise a PC?
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We were told to NEVER have tires off the ground! Just think about it!
We have the levelers and really like them. I prefer the solidity of the Moho. No bouncing when walking around. We used the Lego type levelers for 15+ years with no problems. Just depends on ones pocketbook size at the time of purchase and personal preferences.
Janey (volunteering at st George State Park and loving the weather)
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I asked at the factory if the levelers could be used to lift the tires off the ground and the reply was yes. And that it was REALLY bad idea for safety reasons. I did not ask what the lift distance was though. Enough to lift the tires anyway. Which would be a really bad idea on the rear tires as you lose your brakes and the coach can simply roll off the levelers.
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We've needed to extend the front levelers to the max several times, would guess the tires may be at least 2 maybe 3 inches off the pavement. Wife is often frustrated with the time it takes to park no matter how many times I explain we must point downhill on a significant slope. Feel ok if at least one rear tire is firmly planted and chocked.
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As Randall says 2 or so inches for the front tires. If the slope is steep enough the HWH levelers will do this in automatic mode but it creeps me out so I switch to manual mode and live with the sub-optimal result. :lol
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We were once camped for two weeks at a site that was perfect for us, except that the front right side of the coach was too low with no other way to park. With the right front jack fully extended, the right front tire was off of the ground a couple of inches, but we were still not level enough to be comfortable.
We ran the front right wheel up on a stack of lego-style blocks, put another stack of blocks under the leveling jack, and were able to raise the right side up a little more.
That worked well for us. The step to the side door was a little high. :lol
--Bruce and Sharon
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Gandalf42 do you have a link to this: Progressive Dynamics 60A converter/charger? Would be interested in reading more on it.
Thanks,
John
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Gandalf42 do you have a link to this: Progressive Dynamics 60A converter/charger? Would be interested in reading more on it.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4000.html
Best Converter is another site:
http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4060-60-Amp-Inteli-Power-Mighty-Mini-Power-Center_p_458.html#.WKzOa_krI2w
Also Best Converter has upgrade kits for the Parallax converter/chargers:
http://www.bestconverter.com/MagnetekParallax-630073008300-Upgrade-Kits_c_64.html
Progressive Dynamics page on these:
http://www.progressivedyn.com/pd4600_converter_replacement.html
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I had the Parallax unit in a previous camping trailer. I am not sure if the model used by PC currently is the same as I had. It provided 13.7 volts of charging voltage continuously. We had the Progressive Dynamics installed in lieu of the Parallax unit in our PC. The output charging voltage more closely matches Interstate Battery recommendations. It provides a much quicker recharge at 14.4 volts. As the battery approaches full charge it drops to 13.65 volts and once fully charged and with little to no drain it finally holds the battery at about 13.25 volts. This charging sequence brings the battery up to full charge significantly quicker than my previous Parallax unit and also allows the converter to left on all the time while minimizing the risk of boiling the battery dry thus causing battery failure. This quicker charging is especially important when one relies on the generator to recharge the battery where campgrounds limit generator use time. Another feature that can be useful is the PD can be fitted with their remote "Charge Wizard" that allows the charging mode to be selected manually if desired.
I also have 320 watts of solar and have found the combination of having quick charge with high amperage from the generator for an hour or so in the morning followed by 14.8 volts and lower available amps from the solar controller to bring the batteries up to full charge. The solar charge controller is temperature compensated to reduce the charging voltage as the battery temperature rises to protect the battery from too high charging voltage.
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Looks like I missed out on this one. I have been concerned about the old style converter since day one, but it never occurred to me that it could be swapped out for a newer model.
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John regularly lifts the front tires off the ground. Many campsites slope away and down to the front for drainage. We only lifted the rear tires once... and rolled forward off the jacks. It was a serious HOLY COW moment and we've never done that again. I think part of our problem is we've never calibrated the jacks. I read somewhere you should do that. John is an engineer and if the control pad on the jacks says he needs to lift the front, he lifts it unless I can pull out a level and prove the control panel wrong (and after a mild discussion - NO, we are NOT level - it's lying to you again, look at the tilt - sometimes my argument works, sometimes not. Engineers go by the numbers.)
We don't mind mild tilt but there are some areas with enough tilt that the fridge goes into fault mode (like the driveway where we are staying). We have to get level enough for safe operation of the fridge. We've camped tilted to the side badly enough once that I had to hang on to prevent myself rolling off the side of the bed (we were not able to use jacks where we were). This does not make for a restful night.
We love having jacks and use them most nights but John really covets jacks that can be leveled individually as we frequently have one low corner and it's tricky raising and lowering front then side then back then side to get one jack lower than the others. It's all personal preference though.