Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: echo11 on October 01, 2010, 03:41:29 pm
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I am in the process of ordering a 2350 without a slide. I would like to get feedback on how to order the front passenger seat.-power or swivel? What do you have and are you happy with what you have?
Also, I am going to get a cover on one of the fantastic fans for better ventilation. Would you choose to have it on the bathroom fan or the main area fan?
Thanks for your help. This forum has been a great resource!
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Personally I would choose the swivel passenger seat because it adds extra comfortable seating to the coach when camped. It is also less important for the passenger to be able to adjust their seat setting while in motion as there are no pedals or steering wheel to take into consideration.
It would also seem logical to cover the vent over the living area as opposed to the shower as it would do no damage for it to rain in the shower.
If you've read my last post you know I think you are very smart to go without the slide-out! What are you going to do about thermapane windows? That's one I'm still wrestling with as many people report that the seals break with all the motion of the RV and then the windows get condensation between the panes of glass. While I'd enjoy the extra insulation and quiet I'm not sure it would be worth it.
Good luck with your new toy!
Glenn
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I suggest you look at covers for both vents. They're not that expensive when considered in the whole and I believe you'll want the 2nd later.
As for the seat; is there a reason you can't have both?
I've done this with my other MHs after I bought them and liked the result (being up/down adjustable helps with that small step in the cabin).
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echo11, you said "I am going to get a cover on one of the fantastic fans ". by saying one of, are you saying you are getting a second fantastic fan in the bath? I did that and I am very happy I did.
I put a Maxxair ll over the fan in the hallway but did not over the bath fan. I did not like the way the cover looked that close to the edge of the MH. Make sure you use the Maxxair ll and not the old Maxxair. The old Maxxair only allows for you to run the fan on slow, else you put to much of a strain on the fan's motor. The guy at Fantastic fan told me that years ago. That is why they came out with the Maxxair ll, for the high powered fans.
As for the seat, I agree with the above post that the swivel is more important than the power controls. The best is if you can get both, but I was told it was one or the other when I ordered mine.
BTW, I ordered the slide because we have two large dogs and they need the floor space at night. We got the sofa with the air bed, which only comes with the slide. This gives us a second bed when needed. The weight of the slide was not of concern as I ordered my 2350 with the E450 upgrade, giving me an extra 2K pounds of payload.
Are you getting the short or long arms on the mirrors?
If you can, you should go by the factory and see how well these things are made. It is very interesting. I know you will enjoy your new toy when you get it.
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Thanks so much for all the suggestions. To try to answer the above questions-
The 2350 comes with 2 fantastic fans one in the living area and one in the bathroom. The air vent cover is made by Aeroflow, similar to the Maxxair brand. It was suggested by Fretz RV in PA. They are the East coast factory dealer for Phoenix. (I live in MA.) I am leaning towards having the vent cover in the main area.
As far as the passenger chair question, you can order the power seat, the swivel or neither. My concern with the swivel seat is that it is right next to the barrel chair. I don't know if it is necessary. There will be only 2 of us. Also, how hard is it to swivel? When it is swiveled I guess you can't see the TV. Also, if it is swiveled can the curtain be closed?
For the power seat adjustments, are they the same as the manual adjustments? How difficult are the manual controls to operate?
We are going with the insulated windows. From past posts, it sounds like it is much warmer. Also, since we have a very sound sensitive dog, the sound reduction aspect is important to us.
We are not changing the length of the mirror arms. This is our first motorhome and we want to be able to "see" as much as we can.
Any other thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Echo11
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Hi All, I agree with just about everything, summing it up here.
- Fan cover only over center fan to maintain a nice outside appearance. The 2350 is so small, only one would be needed anyway. Leave that one open & running, and let the air be drawn in from the dash board area. This way the rig stays locked down, rain free, and flow-thru ventilation. I'd put one on ours but then the RV wouldn't clear the garage door.
- You know I love the thermal windows and no-slide dinette.
- Rear View Mirrors? All I can say is I like the stock length we have. It's nice to get a look behind the RV without using the rear camera. It's great when changing lanes. I don't like driving with the camera on anyway.
- For the 2350 with fixed dinette, I advise to request the surround sound subwoofer be installed in the front dinette bench. If you say nothing, it goes under the rear corner bed consuming precious outdoor storage. Placing it far forward also gets it away from the bed so one person watching TV will not disturb the other taking a nap.
- I highly recommend the dinette be leather, not cloth. We have cloth and regret not getting the leather. The cloth stretches when sliding in and out, distorting and wrinkling. Leather (or simulated leather) would eliminate or at least minimize that.
- We have the passenger swivel seat and like it. Admittedly, it's not easy to swing around, but well worth the effort when having day-guests. Adult people sitting in both the barrel chair and the turned-around passenger seat, do not play footsie. The curtian still works, but you have to draw the curtian with the backrest forward. Once the curtain is drawn, then recline it with light contact to the curtain. The only way to watch TV in the front passenger seat is fully reclined facing the front. Swivelled facing rearward....no way.
If the passenger seat was powered, I think it would be a waste of money. The manual seat adjuster works great. The power seat would offer vertical adjustment, but won't be missed as the passenger has many optional positions not avaliable to the driver. Examples are, feet crossed, legs crossed, one leg strateling the seat, etc.
- Get the undocumented dinette window awning. We love it. It's great on a rainy day. You can open the window and be protected from the rain. Also nice in the heat too.
- Confirm your main awning covers fully over the bedroom window for the same reasons. In 2007, we ordered our extra wide to completely cover it. Maybe today, they are all extra wide. That awning is great to open just 9" on still rainy days so your windows on that side can be opened without getting wet. We've done that in places where opening the awning fully would make a scene. An example would be in a store parking lot. I do wonder if the newer window style has less an issue with rain. Do they now swing open from the bottom?
- About the TVs. We got all the wiring and sound system, but no TVs to save money. We bought our own and I installed both myself saving around $1500 and got bigger & better TVs at the time. But I admit, TV selection & the front TV installation is very tricky. You have to be up for the challenge.
- We got the full body paint and love it. Washing the RV is so much easier than washing raw gel-coat fiberglass. I learned that with our old RV we owned for 24 years. After the first 5 years, the surface was very hard to wash, and it doesn't last either. But the full body paint option is very expensive. I am an all or nothing guy concerning paint. If I wasn't getting full body, I'd seriously consider getting no paint work at all, getting only the standard graphic swirl decals. But that is just me.
- I requested the ladder and roof rack NOT be installed, just put in pieces, inside the RV. I don't regret doing that. It's all in my basement for good. I'd include them in the sale if I ever sold the RV. I felt all the mounting holes in the rear wall and roof would be best avoided. And I would never use them anyway for fear of damaging the rig from the stress. Three years into it, and I don't miss them at all. I use a regular ladder at home to wash the roof.
- About the roof antenna. I wonder if we'd be better off without it. With digital TV technology, finding TV stations is rediculous. We use the TVs to watch movies we brought from home. When in an RV park, we hook up to cable TV. The roof top antenna is annoying to have, rattling and clanking on rougher roads. And it is plainly ugly. I suppose if we spent many weeks in one remote location without CATV, it could serve a purpose. I don't know what to advise there. Just give it some thought of your own.
??? This one is a big QUESTION MARK, but I feel worth mentioning.
I wonder if the barrel chair could be replaced with a matching 3rd captain chair. The barrel chair area in the 2350 is ideal for a recliner of some sort. The barrel's low back makes it uncomfortable to watch TV, which otherwise would be ideal. I know the factory now installs very puffy front captain chairs, so maybe a 3rd one there would have a serious space problem. But our smaller earlier style Lexus captain chairs we have might work more easily. I say this because the barrel chair not only swivels, but it also adjusts by sliding away from the wall. When adjusted far from the wall, when you pivot it, it swings around far out there in a huge arc. Understand? It's hard to describe.
Being that you are in MA, have you checked out East Acres RV there in Mendon, MA? He has a nicely optioned demo 2007 2350 with full new vehicle warrantee coverage. It's a demo because the dealer took it on a trip. You might barter down close to $60k. But...it does have a couch slide-out.
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Ron or anyone-
Would you be able to explain the pros and cons of the short vs. the long arms on the side mirrors. I realize the width of the motorhome would be smaller. How is visibility effected?
I am taking Ron's suggestions of ordering a splash shield for the battery and an upgraded water pump with flexible hose in and out of the pump.
I am trying to make sure I include everything I need/ want on this order! I appreciate everyone's imput!
Echo11
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Hi Ron,
A couple of issues about your write up above. The standard electric awning already goes all the way to the rear, covering the bedroom window. On the 2011 motorhomes, the windows are crank out at the bottom not sliders like we have. Therefore the dinning room window awning is not needed for rain, just for the sun. My sub woofer is behind the outside cabinet wall, under the bed, next to the funerance. I had them put a on/off switch for when I want to nap and she wants to watch TV. I have never used it because she uses the TV speakers, not the suround sound. Ron, I am just trying to bring you up to date with some of the new changes we noticed at the Hershey show.
Hi Echo11,
When I ordered my 2350, the bathroom had one of the silly little fans, so I paid to have them install a second Fantastic fan there. By your comment it looks like they may now come standard. I would double check that.
As for the mirror arm issue, I guess I better explain the difference I see because I was the one who started this issue. When I got my 2350, it had the long arms on the mirrors. I was unconfortable with them sticking out and taking up the whole lane on the black roads. We like getting off the highways when we can and taking black roads. I was down sizing from a 35' class A Winniebago. So I wanted everything small and compact. I called the mirror manufacture (Ramco) and found out that they have two arms, a 9" and a 4 3/4". I went through Carol at Phoenix and purchased the mirrors with the short arms. I then did a write up here about reducing my overall width. Let me tell you, it did not make some of the folks at Phoenix very happy as a lot of people started asking about the short arms. My understanding is that the short arms are to be the standard in the future.
As for which works the best. The long arms do show behind you better than the short arms and you can see the cars behind you without the camera on. I always run with the camera on, so I can see what is directly behind me from 0 to 25 feet out. Between 25 to 50 feet, it is hard to see a car, so I look for the shadow or wait until a bend in the road to see them. Beyond 50 feet I can normally see the car. Besides the car is behind me and what he does is his responablility. There have been several times that I was glad I had the short arms with on coming trucks and their large mirrors coming very close to my mirrors. Also when driving in the mountains on the National Park's narrow roads I ride the center line and I don't want my mirrors sticking into the on coming lane. So if you want to see the cars directly behind you without using the camera or looking for shadows, then go with the long arms. If you want the narrow width and you can drive with cars that like to ride from 25 to 50 feet behind you being some what hidden, go with the short arms.
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I am taking Ron's suggestions of ordering a splash shield for the battery and an upgraded water pump with flexible hose in and out of the pump.
I am not sure Phoenix USA offers a battery shield like I had made.
About a pump with built-in flex lines....I have never seen them sold that way, but easy enough to add. If the factory is not already doing it, request they install a flex line on the pressure side of the pump to dampen plumbing vibration. That makes a big improvement with noise. Also, there are two types of pumps. The old cheaper one cycles on and off all the time. The newer more expensive design, the pump goes on when the water is running and stays on until until you turn off the water. It seems a better choice, though I don't have first-hand experience with it. I think it's worth the research.
Tom,
Thanks for all that clarification on the changes between model years. I am stuck in the old days, older models. I have not examined the newest models. Much seems different. Now I can stop covering things no longer applicable.
About the subwoofer location. I could not picture in my mind where it is mounted on a new 2350. Is your description on a different model? My furnace is under the fridge. Not under the bed. Maybe this is another variation between model years.
As the years roll by, I have less and less input. And that's good.
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Ron,
I have asked for a battery shield like you had made and they will put one in for me. Although, I'm not sure if The factory is doing it or if Fretzrv is taking care of that. I am getting a better water pump with flexible hosing in and out of the unit. I definitely am interested in noise reduction! I will have to wait until Monday to get the exact model number for the Shurflow unit they are putting in.
Tom,
I really like the idea of the sub woofer turn off. I will ask about getting that.
I am still on the fence about the short arm for the side mirrors. I like the idea of less width. I am confused by whether you just can't see cars directly in back of you or whether it impedes the vision in the lanes to the side of you. I guess my concern would be the ability to safely change lanes. Is it possible for you to give a little more info on that?
Also, I was not aware that the windows were changing for 2011. Do you know of any other changes that will be made for 2011 in the 2350?
Thanks again for all your help!
Echo11
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Here are head-on & rear-on pictures of mine showing the standard extending mirrors. I like them as is, certainly not longer, and I think not shorter either, but I'd have to experience them. I can't say it's common for me to be concerned of hitting other vehicles with mine. Once in a great great while, yes.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3743989153_b6411a139a_b.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2624/3744784614_6afef096ea_b.jpg)
About the window design, here are a couple pictures directly off PC's website. The percentage of opening is less pending which window, more restricting in letting in a breeze. But it has built-in protection from rain. It's a matter of personal preference.
(http://www.phoenixusarv.com/albums/2910-models/slides/DSC01858.jpg)
(http://www.phoenixusarv.com/albums/2910-models/slides/DSC01855.jpg)
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Ron,
Thanks for the photos. It really helps to see the mirrors in realtionship to the side of the rig.
Tom,
Any chance that you would have a photo of a front, straight on view to post? It would be great to compare to Ron's. Thanks!
Echo11
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Ron,
On the 2350 with the slide like I have, they put the fresh water tank, water pump, sub woofer and the furance under the rear bed. Without the side they put the furance under the reefer or the tall closet, I don't remeber which I saw. I don't know where the sub woofer went without the slide. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
Tom
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I have a 2010 2350 with slide out and passenger swivel chair. When you are parked at the campground ground and you have the swivel chair turn around, the sliding curtain will cut off the chair making it impossible to sit in it.
I went to Camping World and bought a ADCO Class C windshield Cover specifically for Ford 350/450 with mirror cut-outs. Not only does it provide more secure privacy, it also block out a good amount of the sunray making it a whole lot cooler inside . Since it is draped to the outside of the windshield, you can have the full use of the passenger swival chair. Also, when I have settled down at the campground and when there is company to the RV, I retrack the driver seat as close to the steering wheel, it makes the inside cabin a little more spacious as well.
Donald
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By the way, I understand on some other brand and model RV, the Adco windshield cover is included as part of the package. I honestly believe the windshield cover is the best money I spend on the RV yet. I could feel the instant cooling once I put the Cover on, and I can use the passenger swivel chair at the same time.
Donald
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Donald,
Thanks for jumping in. I appreciate your input. I wasn't sure if I wanted the swivel passenger seat. I guess it is good to have. I will look into the windshield cover.
Since you have the 2350 model, do you have any thoughts on the smaller arm for the side view mirrors? I'm still haven't made a decision on that. Thanks-
Echo11
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Echo11, do you have a name? I feel silly calling you Echo11 all the time.
My short arm mirrors in no way impeade my viewing the lanes next to me or changing lanes. The only issue with them is the cars that are hiding behind me just outside the camera view. If either of us shifts left or right in the lane, or we go around a curve, I can see them. If the sun is to the side of us, I can see their shadow. I have not had any problems keeping track of them. I know Ron and some others pefer the wider arms for seeing behind themseleves, and I respect them for that, but I don't feel their need. You have to know that Ron is from Chicago and we all know how they drive up there. Just kidding you Ron. I took a picture of my PC headon before the rains started, but it does not really show you how good or bad the mirrors work. I will try and post it here, but I have never done that before now. You can see my rig at Yellowstone in the "Adventure anywhere" page off the home page. It is the brown one. I will try the Insert image button above now, here goes nothing. Well that didn't work. Sorry.
There are several changes to the 2011 besides the windows, They changed the TV speakers, the monitor panel is now behind the driver's seat and the Microwave has changed. There maybe other changes that I have missed or that are done during the model year. Phoenix does not seem to make any major changes from year to year unless the bring out a new model like the 2910. They just seem to keep improving the current model with upgrades. That is one of the reason I like this brand. Also it will help if and when I go to sell it, the buyer knowing that they are getting close to the same thing that is currently offered.
I had three different people tell me how much they like our motorhome this weekend. One was when I was in traffic in downtown Gettysburg. He was walking down the street and stop to tell me how much he liked it. He then asked if I would sell it to him. Of course I told him "no way", he would have to get his own. The size, shape and the full body paint really turns people on the this motorhome. This was another time I was glad I had the short arm mirrors as the road was very narrow with lots of traffic. We like to sit inside and watch the people walking by in the campgrounds and how they point at the rig.
Got to go for now.
Tom
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Best $50 bucks I have spent at Camping World was for the windshield cover. Santa Fe last week was warm and the AC kept up well during the day with it on. Since the campground had a West facing spot (I got it) it was nice to try out for that purpose alone.
L. G.
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Tom-
Thanks for all the reponses. I do have a name- it's Roni. I just thought it would be confusing to start changing how I was signing.
I am going to ask about ordering the shorter arms. I just read an article about where the side mirrors should be in relation to the side of the rig. It would lead me to believe the shorter arms might be better. Actually, that's why I was interested in the photo.
http://www.fmca.com/polks-top-7/3161-polks-top-7-tips-for-maximizing-your-motorhome-mirrors
Thanks again for all who are so willing to share thier knowledge!
Roni
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Roni
I do have the long mirror arm and I am pretty nervous about it too. Especially when I am going down a two lane road when a 18 wheeler is coming towards me. The longer arm feel like wings that are ready to clip off the road side mail box. Its just a matter of time before I will exchange it for the shorter arm mirror.
Donald
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Hi Roni:
Welcome to our fold. We have 2010 2350 with swivel passenger seat. There are four in our family and need to have that passenger seat for seating at night. If there are two in your family and will never have guests then there is no need for that seat. That curtain is a pain in you know what. I am getting the window cover in the spring. I had one in my old MH and loved it. If you put one of those covers on the fan in the bathroom you have to remember to open the bathroom door. I forget to do that lots.... I swear that my bathroom door closes by itself. As far as the mirrors, in my humble opinion they don't stick out that far. If you are that close to another rig then I am thinking you have yourself in some serious --- and the smaller mirror won't help you then. As far as the thermo windows goes, they are nice option, but I could not justify the cost. I would love if all those people that have little yippy dogs that wake up at 6 in the morning had them. Then I would not hear them..
Safe travels.........
DJM
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I have a 2010 2350 with slide out and passenger swivel chair. When you are parked at the campground ground and you have the swivel chair turn around, the sliding curtain will cut off the chair making it impossible to sit in it.
I wonder if this problem occured when the seat design was changed to the puffier style.
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Ron,
On the 2350 with the slide like I have, they put the fresh water tank, water pump, sub woofer and the furance under the rear bed. Without the slide they put the furance under the reefer or the tall closet, I don't remeber which I saw. I don't know where the sub woofer went without the slide. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
Tom
Got It Tom. Thanks for the clarity on the deviations. I wonder if this change came to be when the fridge became part of the slideout. I wonder then, what is under the fridge? Is it a storage cabinet?
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Ron, I believe you are right about the 2010 slide with the reefer in it being the change point. There is nothing under the reefer because there is a 4" hump for the slide.
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Hi Roni, nice to meet you. If you want and I wish everyone would, you can go into your profile and add your name and which motorhome you have. It will then be posted with all your messages. See the the bottom of this message for an example. hithere
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Tom,
Thanks so much for your help!
When I asked about switching the arms for the side mirrors to the shorter ones, it seems the 2011 will come with the shorter arms.
Due to your suggestion, I have added the on/ off switch for the sub woofer.
I was able to check into the fantastic fan question and there is still only one in the bedroom area. The bath fan, as you mentioned, is still a little one. I will have a vent cover over the bedroom/ living area fan. Possibly, at some point, I will change the fan in the bathroom to a fantastic fan.
As you noted, the windows have changed. They crank out from the bottom and are frameless.
We have also upgraded the water pump to a Shurflo Smart Sensor pump.
We are still in the process of finalizing the order. It is very exciting! We're still a bit nervous about getting the order the way it will work best for us.
We appreciate all the help we have received along the way with this process, from all that have responded.
Thanks!
Roni
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Just for info. We have a 2350 and we needed another seat for our baby granddaughter. Stewart suggested replacing the barrel chair with another Ford swivel/reclining Captains seat locking in the forward position. It works great and can swivel and recline to any position. Much more comfortable than the barrel chair. They also added forward and aft tie downs for the seat anchored to the frame.
We also had a MAXAIR Maxxfan, model #6200 with remote. When closed it has a very low profile and when open it is still a streamlined low profile. It can be left open all the time as no rain can get in. Look at the green 2350 on the new brochure and you will see how low a profile it is.
One other subject. The width of your outside mirrors. The mirrors are designed a certain width as the law in most states requires your rear visibility to be able to see a point a specific distance directly behind your vehicle. If you shorten the arms, that point will move much farther aft of your vehicle, thereby creating a very large blind spot.
Bob
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Bob
You wrote "One other subject. The width of your outside mirrors. The mirrors are designed a certain width as the law in most states requires your rear visibility to be able to see a point a specific distance directly behind your vehicle. If you shorten the arms, that point will move much farther aft of your vehicle, thereby creating a very large blind spot. " Where did you get this information from?
The shorter arm mirrors we are talking about are made by Remco, the same manufacture that makes the longer arm mirrors. They are made for motorhomes that are 93' to 96" wide, like ours. The long arms are for motorhomes that are greater than 96" up to 102". Coach House has been using these short arm mirrors for years. I would have to think that they are legal in all states, but I am not a lawyer. I understand that Phoenix USA is now using the short arm mirrors as standard equipment for 2011. Please clear up your statement for me.
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We have a 2350 and we needed another seat for our baby granddaughter. Stewart suggested replacing the barrel chair with another Ford swivel/reclining Captains seat locking in the forward position. It works great and can swivel and recline to any position. Much more comfortable than the barrel chair. They also added forward and aft tie downs for the seat anchored to the frame.
Bob, This is valuable information to me. I did measure & compare the size and area of my captain and barrel chairs. There did seem to be enough room for a 3rd captain chair in the barrel position. I priced a new chair from the PC-USA 2007 seat supplier, Pauls Seating. My 2007 model is called a Lexus. With both arm rests, Paul's price is $375. With no armrests, it's $365. I'd get both armrests unless there is a clearence problem. Watching TV, reading, or simply relaxing in that chair in-place of the barrel chair would be so so so much better. For me with the fixed dinette, I can use the adjacent dinette bench to rest my legs.
Could you elaborate on the forward/aft tie-downs? I would greatly appreciate pictures of your 3rd captain chair, it's pedistal, tie-downs, etc. I would hate to order a 3rd chair from Paul's Seating, just to find out there is a problem. I wonder if I'll need a special pedistal for it, rather than re-use my barrel pedistal.
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This is just one example of a state requirement for mirror visibility. This happens to be Idaho.
Bob
TITLE 49
MOTOR VEHICLES
CHAPTER 9
VEHICLE EQUIPMENT
49-940.MIRRORS. (1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the operator a view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred (200) feet to the rear of the vehicle.
(2) When a motor vehicle is so loaded or constructed, or is towing a vehicle or trailer which is so loaded or constructed as to obstruct the driver’s view straight to the rear, then the motor vehicle shall be equipped with a mirror on the left side and a mirror on the right side so located as to reflect to the operator a view of the highway for a distance of at least two hundred (200) feet to the rear of the vehicle.
(3) When an operator of a motor vehicle is transporting under special permit authority an oversize load which makes mirrors impractical devices for reflecting to the operator a view of the highway to the rear, a following escort vehicle equipped with proper mirrors meeting the requirements herein may be substituted for the required mirrors on the hauling motor vehicle. The escort vehicle must be a car or light truck and it must be equipped with an oversize load sign, flashing or rotating lights, and a two (2) way radio which provides full-time communication with the escorted vehicle.
The Idaho Code is made available on the Internet by the Idaho Legislature as a public service. This Internet version of the Idaho Code may not be used for commercial purposes, nor may this database be published or repackaged for commercial sale without express written permission.
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In regards to the "Mirror" subect, I am a bit taken back how it has become a hot point of discussion. I never gave my longer-extending mirrors a second thought for clearence to anything, except a time or two in very tight parking areas, I asked my wife to roll down her window and pull her mirror in, just for extra assurance. But I couldn't say that would justify getting shorter mirror arms.
In tight parking areas after we are parked, as a rule we fold the mirrors in for fear of someone bumping into them when walking by, or worse yet, having a child grab on and swing from one. I suppose that could be a good reason to consider shorter arms.
When pulling inside my garage, I pull in both mirrors or they would automatically fold in with much less grace when rubbing against the garage door frame. But that would still happen with shorter mirror arms.
My brother owns a Starflyte on a 1998 Ford E350. His rig is much narrower than any Phoenix Cruiser. His rig too has Velvac mirrors, but with the shorter arms. One thing I noticed when showing him how they fold in....the arms are so short, they required a lot of muscle to pull them in. Maybe that comes with vehicle age as well as less leverage.
I find it quite interesting to read here that Phoenix USA is now installing shorter arms on all their 2011s.
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Bob, thank you for the clarifcation on what you said about the mirrors. I still do not understand about seeing 200' behind you. Starting at what point? Anyway, I am happy with the shorter arms. I believe that everyone has the right to their choice of short or long arms. I guess that is why they make both sizes. I don't want to have this issue go on and on, so I have said how I feel and I will leave it at that. No more about mirrors from me.
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Tom, I am done too. :) Happy Trails.