Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: JoeyD on July 12, 2016, 12:44:40 pm
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I am quite disturbed by what I found on the head rest portion of one of our recliners... As you can see in the attached picture, it is quite a mess. I can't figure out how it got that way. Both chairs are used equally yet the other chair is in perfect condition, as are the driver and passenger seats. Any idea how I can get this repaired?
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JoeyD,
Someone else posted recently about their ultraleather peeling off in stripes. I would let the folks at PC know your experience. I will be checking ours frequently as we have it on the seats, dinette, and sofa/bed in our 2013 2100. We had a better grade of Ultraleather in our previous motorhome and it looked brand new after the 10 years we owned it.
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Hmmmm, That is disturbing to see. Given it is one head rest, I wonder if the material broke down from a hair care product.
My wife's sister married an African American. Our 3 sweet adult nieces with their big beautiful afro hair, when they visit for Christmas, pending their fashion that day, they can leave behind a sheen on our leather couches which we clean up the next day for fear of a reaction.
But it could be hair spray or other hair care products. It leaves me to wonder how safe those products are.
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In my case Ron... I use NO hair care products, nor does my wife. In fact, I have very little hair to put hair care products in.
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Joey,
We have the same year as you. We have already had the arms and the backs of the Euro chairs replaced. the back and seat of the sofa is peeling off in big hunks as well. The drivers seat is falling apart. We have spoken with Kermit about the problem and he will send us replacement covers when we get back to Florida. He had indicated previously that Paul's Seating got a bad batch of the phony leather.
In ours, it looks like skin peeling after a very bad sunburn. It looks disgusting!!!!!
Judi
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In my case Ron... I use NO hair care products, nor does my wife. In fact, I have very little hair to put hair care products in.
Okay, I understand. So that can be ruled out.
Joey, We have the same year as you. We have already had the arms and the backs of the Euro chairs replaced. the back and seat of the sofa is peeling off in big hunks as well. The drivers seat is falling apart. We have spoken with Kermit about the problem and he will send us replacement covers when we get back to Florida. He had indicated previously that Paul's Seating got a bad batch of the phony leather. In ours, it looks like skin peeling after a very bad sunburn. It looks disgusting!!!!!Judi
Wow, how weird is that? I am glad that Paul's Seating and the factory are both aware of the problem and are supplying good replacements.
Are you expected to do the upholstery work yourself? Or are you taking your rigs somewhere to get the new covers installed?
Ron
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Judi,
Thanks for posting about the defective batch of ultraleather. Ours is also a 2013 and am hoping it is not part of the bad batch. As I mentioned previously we had a different type of Ultraleather and could not have been happier with its performance.
I hope you and Joey will soon have new upholstery without too much inconvenience.
Gail
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On page 5 of the 2007 brochure is a list of popular options of which it specifically says "Leather Seating (Captain Chairs)". So when we ordered our 2350 in 2007, I expected the front captain seats to be leather on the seating surfaces, and vinyl on all other surfaces, but I never could confirm it. I really don't think our front captain seats have any leather in them, but maybe I am wrong. Maybe it's bonded leather which is a percentage of leather inside a concoction of various materials on a roll. These days you have to ask "What kind of leather is it, bonded(poor quality), top grain(okay), or full grain leather(real quality)?" I would rather have vinyl instead of bonded leather for bonded leather has very poor durability. But so far our seats are holding up well, yet our rig is not a good gauge to go by given it is inside a dark controlled temp garage most of the time.
The way this was written back in 2007, the implication is that all other seats upgraded to leather, might not be actual leather.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8814/27667874414_c0ddc1940a_z.jpg)
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The back and the arms of the Euro chairs are easy to replace. George did it. We are a little concerned about the driver's seat. We might have to take it to a Co. that will do it for us.
It is disappointing but we are working with a company that has EXCEPTIONAL customer service. We have no doubt that this issue will be fixed as soon as we get back to florida.
Judi
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We have a 2010 2350 that we purchased used, in Florida, 2 years ago. The seat on the drivers side was peeling slightly on the bottom door side when we purchased our rig. We assumed it had been damaged by sitting in direct Florida sun. After one trip out west, the stuff was peeling all over the seat bottom and leaving a mess. We had that seat re-covered. We keep our unit under a covered shed in a shady area. No direct sunlight. The passenger seat and the sofa began peeling. It starts in a small area, but quickly grows. We re-covered the passenger seat, but can't decide what to do about the sofa. I don't believe this is the result of a bad batch, but instead, just a cheap product. 5 years for seats with reasonable care should not result in this type problem. Would love to hear suggestions about replacing that sofa. It is a hide-a-bed but we never use it for sleeping. My husband is a do-it-yourselfer. Afraid to attempt removal and replacement on this. We want comfort for lounging and are afraid of ordering a sofa untried.
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My driver seat is peeling too. Phoenix gave me the name of the company who supplies the seating. I have tried calling and emailing a number of times and left messages. They will not ever acknowledge the call.
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My Euro chair is started to flake also. I haven't decided when and what I will do about it yet.
Maybe we can get the FEDS to issue a recall on this ultra leather. roflol
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I am shocked to see we may be in for some non wear issues down the road. Our ultra leather class A.. with 2 sofa's in the Florida sun and the seats as well was beautiful at 5 years old when it went down the road with the trade in dealer drivers... No one would have guessed either. Sofa's had endured big dog nails and use. Decent fabric should not give out like this. The fabric does not seem as pliable as other that we had. SO dry less flexible may mean it really dries out... I have the dinette seating which was replaced on our new 29i10 a little over a month ago... will have to look at that more closely. to see what we are facing on front seats and sofa. No matter its not a cheap fix...Wonder if I need slip covers now. Just finished my first 2,000 miles on the gauge hoping have a long ways to go when we are on the road again soon. Good luck, Patricia
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When we placed our order for a PC back in 2007, the 2007 sales brochure and our rig's documentation said the 2 front captain seats and the barrel chair are leather, not ultra leather, pleather, or called by any other name, just leather. The barrel chair has since been replaced with a 3rd captain seat that we bought directly from the seat supplier Paul's Seating (http://www.paulsseating.com). But I strongly doubt that any of our three captain seats have any leather material in them for they don't feel or smell like leather at all, not even on the seating surfaces as is a common practice. One thing I can say is that none of our three captain seats are flaking yet, maybe because our rig is stored indoors so much. Or maybe the quality of the vinyl is better.
Regarding the break-down in the vinyl, it seems that China has done it again, selling fabric to RV seat manufactures that has become substandard, a chronic problem with many things the orient manufactures, most notably China. That is how the industry like reputable toy companies for example, have occasional recalls because of lead in the paint on their toys. One thing certain, you will not see a recall on your seats.
One thing has me scratching my head over the PC seats. Why are the fake-leather vinyl seats an up-charge from the cloth? If I knew back then our three seats would be vinyl, I would likely have gone with cloth seats and save the extra $721 paid.
But our experience with our original cloth dinette cushions was terrible. The vinyl surfaces are so much better. And I also have to say that our captain seats are nice looking and very comfortable. We do like what we have....as long as it doesn't start flaking.
ADDING:
Maybe the problem is something entirely different. There are three different smooth leathers used in furniture upholstery.
- Full Grain Leather is best and extremely expensive. It is naturally smooth and 100% pure
- Top Grain Leather is middle of the road. It is still 100% leather, but it starts out imperfect. They process it some add a grain on it to cover up the imperfections.
- Bonded Leather is shreds or fibers of leather mixed into non-leather fabric. This type is very common and affordable. It is here where you see leather furniture advertised with 15%, 20%, 22% leather. Just maybe this leather is used in PC seating for it is common for flaking to occur with this type of so-called leather material.
I learned all about furniture leathers a few years ago when ordering a pair of Amish recliners with full grain leather.
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Summer 2015
Drivers seat peeling. The source for the chairs did not respond. Went to the factory where they removed the seat and sent it to be repaired while other work was being done. Later that day the like-new seat was installed. No charge.
Later the Euro chairs also had pealing arms and headrests. The factory sent replacements; again no charge. I found that it was a pretty good job to do the replacement. Sorry to say but one of the new replacements is peeling again.
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Google "problems with bonded leather" then click on images.
I do wonder if hair care products, types of laundry soap, things like that, encourage the break-down.
Click Here (http://www.today.com/news/popular-leather-sofas-fall-apart-customers-complain-8C11073452) to watch a video on the "Today" show about a specific store chain. Their problem was extreme.
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My sofa in the 2350 began to show the dreaded wrinkles, then a tiny little "slit" almost like a cut. (It was not). Few little places when we took off to the beach for three days (evacuated because of Matthew). Drove up to Cade's Cove in the Smokies for 4 days and by this morning there were multiple pieces of vinyl, almost like wrapping plastic, way thinner than any shower curtain vinyl hanging off the seat. Will try to get some photos of this. No idea how this can be recovered as we did with both front seats. Haven't bothered to try Paul's seating again. Don't want anything they have to offer!
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Mine is a 2012 also. Mine is nice and flexible soft with no problems. Wonder if this was just a bad batch of vinyl (well, lets call it what it is, certainly not Leather as advertised), from China? I do put auto upholstery cleaner/conditioner on a few times at year. But I'm not convinced that this is the problem, and leaning towards, Bad Product instead.
Denny
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same problem with peeling drivers "leather" Seat. The seat suppiier Paul will never take calls or return messages. Stinks.
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Actually, I emailed Paul's Seating yesterday about the cost to recovering the driver and passenger chairs in a 2012 PC2400 Sprinter we are considering to buy. He emailed back in three hours with a price of $275 for each chair if he does it; and $200 for both covers if I do the work. I used the email address on here http://paulsseating.net/ Maybe Paul is feeling the holiday spirit. 2o2 :)(:
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Interesting that Paul's Seating replies to purchases, not warranty related questions. That is discouraging. Regardless, $100 per seat (doing it yourself) isn't a bad price. The big question is.....will the new ones have the same premature failure?
I have replaced leather Corvette and Solstice seat skins. I would think PC seats are easier but I do not have first-hand experience.
If you are considering ordering the skins to do it yourself, ask Paul's if they include instructions. Maybe their website posts instructions. If you had something to review, it would give you an idea on what is involved.
If we ever had to replace our seat skins, I would ask Paul's if he offers top grain leather covers. It might be worth the upcharge, not just for the comfort, but also to be assured the problem won't return.
Ron
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I'll have Paul do the job if we decide to buy this PC2400. I can't do much with my hands due to Agent Orange nerve damage. Much of my disability pension often goes to have things done by mechanics and craftsmen; but that's "life down on the farm" for us. We'll go eat at King Wa while he's working on it. 1:)4 Thanks for the real leather suggestion. . .might look into that. :)(:
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I previously posted on this topic with comments. Sorry to say I am now posting because we have this problem in our 2013 2100. Since this topic began we have been checking our driving seats, dinette cushions, and the sleep sofa every time we are in our PC. On Black Friday, while driving home from a wonderful Thanksgiving with family, I noticed the cracking on my passenger seat. I'm waiting for it to show up on the other pieces. Not sure how we will handle this but will let PC know another one of their units has bad Ultraleather.
Gail
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Sorry to say I am now posting because we have this problem in our 2013 2100.
I am sorry to read about it Gail. I hope you and everyone else here with the problem gets this resolved permanently and are able to share the financial burden of it all. Given you are 3 years beyond the warranty period, it seems to be asking too much for Paul's or Phoenix to pay 100%. If all three parties pitched in a third, that would make it right by me. To avoid a repeat, I would consider real top grain leather or cloth for the replacements. Whatever everyone's decision, NEVER NEVER NEVER get bonded leather for you are guaranteed a repeat.
You can't trust anything coming from China these days. What frightens me most are their food exports. They are a huge supplier of organics since they don't practice non-organic farming. I worry about what they are not disclosing.
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Thanks for your sympathy and support, Ron. I don't know what will transpire but driving from Florida to Indiana to have the same material installed is not an option we'd consider.
I will follow up with the outcome.
Gail
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Gail, Sorry to hear you have the problem. Ours progressed like a virus, from the driver seat, 3 months later to the passenger seat, and now the sofa. We had both of the front seats recovered and the upholsterer told us that our original fabric was a very cheap, low grade. We are trying to figure out now what to do about the sofa. So far we are out $600. The good news is that we were able to match the existing vinyl. We can tell a big difference in the feel of the covering. Keep us updated.
Rose & Earl
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Rose and Earl,
I appreciate your concern that we too have the same Ultraleather problem you are experiencing. At this time only the passenger seat is showing the defects. If the other areas are defective, I wish we'd see the sign of it now. . We sure don't want to pay to recover everything if it isn't necessary. I guess we might have to play the wait and see game.
Thank you for posting your experience. It is valuable information.
Gail
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T reported our defective ultraleather to PC yesterday. I was able to describe the condition to the person who answers the phone. She said she would pass on the information. Kermit was not there for a few days and she was the only person there. I will check back in a week or so. Today upon closer examination, the driver seat is also showing signs.
Gail