Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Polish Prince on February 09, 2016, 12:40:49 pm
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2016 - 2351 Modifications and Options - These work for us and won't work for everyone. If anyone wants more detail just let us know.
Regular options
Slide out dinette
Convenience Package, less TV antenna and booster
Leveling Jacks
In-dash backup camera and GPS
Insulated Glass
Other Options
Built on a 450 chassis
Safety Plus steering stabilizer
Insulated the cab floor
Xantrex Pro-sine 2.0 instead of 1800, Pure Sine wave and includes circuit test for shore power
Additional patio and rear lighting
Wired for portable satellite dish
Installing WI-FI booster – Ranger 11-mini pack – ˝ mile range
Installing cell phone booster – Weboost drive 4G-X Extreme RV Signal Booster
Quick connect gas line
Upgrade to 15k BTU AC
Dometic thermostat with outside temp display
Upgraded the mattress to gel mattress
Upgraded to AGM batteries
Upgraded to Max Air 6200 in living room vent
Upgraded bathroom vent to Max Air 7500k with remote
Eliminated fan in bathroom
Installed 200 watt solar panel with Solar Boost 3000i controller
Modifications
Eliminated pantry and added space to counter
Modified drawers under cooktop – now 6 drawers because of pantry change
Moved toilet to outside wall, now porcelain
Eliminated about 3 ft. of wall next to bed, up to shower
Eliminated door on bathroom, now open bathroom
Eliminated roof rack and ladder
Added sprayer for toilet
Added movable shelves in shirt closet and wardrobe
Added handle above passenger seat, to help Jill get into seat from living room
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Awesome configuration! I'm going to have to research each and every item... as many look like things I'd add... and some I don't know anything about. August is going to be such a VERY L..O..N..G time to have to wait. I hope the final season of co-op'ing keeps you busy and makes the time fly quickly past. CONGRATS!!!
Jim
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August will be a long time to wait, but the anticipation makes the final date even more exciting. It gives us a long lead to find all the little things that we will need to outfit our PC. Each time we find something that we want/need it brings home the fact that we are actually doing it. The goats start to kid in late March so that will be a HUGE distraction from the waiting. Life on the farm gets really busy when the farm works starts. We have a young man who is buying all the goats and equipment and he will be coming to apprentice for 2 weeks in early June so that also will be a wonderful distraction.
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You have plenty of time to reconsider any of your options & deviations. You can even change the color near the very end of the build cycle.
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Interesting bath setup. We also have a 2351. Took possession in Dec/2015. We also deleted the kitchen pantry and extended the kitchen counter and have same drawer setup. We have a bed/couch in the slide which works well for us. The only thing I would advise against is the dash radio/gps/cam. It is unusable in sunlight because of a reflection of the passenger in the face of unit and small for us (old eyes) I am having the back up camera installed above the rear view mirror (no longer a Sony)
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We also deleted the kitchen pantry and extended the kitchen counter and have same drawer setup.
That was a real good idea to get 6 decent size drawers in the galley cabinet. The pictures I seen of them look great. And the extra counter space is very nice too. You really would't feel the extra blessing you have until previously owning the standard galley.
I did my own retro-fit of the standard galley HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,1751.0.html) to double the capacity of our standard galley. Because the wider and extra deep drawers are much heavier, they require the button latches I added to keep them closed when driving.
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Interesting bath setup. We also have a 2351. Took possession in Dec/2015. We also deleted the kitchen pantry and extended the kitchen counter and have same drawer setup. We have a bed/couch in the slide which works well for us. The only thing I would advise against is the dash radio/gps/cam. It is unusable in sunlight because of a reflection of the passenger in the face of unit and small for us (old eyes) I am having the back up camera installed above the rear view mirror (no longer a Sony)
I was concerned about having the back up monitor in the way when moving from the seat to the living area of the PC. Did/do you notice it at all when moving between the areas. I really wanted clean lines up front and nothing to visually break up the view. We have an in dash in our car and other than you can't adjust a destination without stopping and putting the car in park, it has worked well. We have also noticed that a built in, have used the a number of times, has much better satellite connection than a portable unit.
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One more modification that we got approval on today. We ditched the mirror backsplash and are using a very thin steel back splash around the stove, the side and directly behind the stove. It's called Diamond Life, comes in a bunch of colors, and allows you to write on it with erasable markers and put magnets on it. We tested it at home and the grease washes off it very well.
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I think repositioning the back up camera is a personal choice. As I have not gotten our unit back from the factory yet, I cannot tell you if I made the right choice. I can tell you that while driving down the road and having to lean into the center of the cab to see the gps, or the back up camera is a royal pain. Also the radio is a bit complicated to operate but plays nicely. We shall see.
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I think repositioning the back up camera is a personal choice. As I have not gotten our unit back from the factory yet, I cannot tell you if I made the right choice. I can tell you that while driving down the road and having to lean into the center of the cab to see the gps, or the back up camera is a royal pain. Also the radio is a bit complicated to operate but plays nicely. We shall see.
We are doing tinted windows to hopefully reduce the glare in the cab. We'll see how that works out.
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“having to lean into the center of the cab to see the gps, or the back up camera is a royal pain.”
I might not correctly interpret the above quote about the backup camera, but the following might lessen your problem of viewing the backup monitor:
If your monitor is like ours, you can adjust the devise at the rear of the monitor that holds it in place to change the position of the screen. I made the monitor face more toward the driver’s seat so now just a minor tilt of my head allows me to see the screen without leaning toward the center of the cab.
--Bruce
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I noticed that you have as added option "Insulation to the cab". Would you mind sharing more about that option. Thanks - John
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I noticed that you have as added option "Insulation to the cab". Would you mind sharing more about that option. Thanks - John
When I asked about additional insulation in the cab, they said there was an option to add insulation to the floor of the cab to reduce the heat on your feet and some of the road noise. I added that. I'm waiting on a response back about the additional door and dog house insulation that was discussed on the forum. I haven't heard back from PC yet.
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polish prince....PC does not usually take the door panels or dog house out during construction of the coach for their is no reason to do such so I sure that is slowing their decision and pricing some. well worth doing no matter what the upcharge is if you do not want to do it yourself. Ron G.
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The word from PC is they are not willing to do these soundproofing improvements. We are on our own for these.
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I wonder what the Ford part number is for the insulation-backed full coverage black rubber cab mat, for the box truck cut-away. If reasonably priced, I'd consider buying a new one and see how it fits right over the PC-installed cab carpet for heat & sound, and no fuss over muddy shoes.
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Weather tech makes a rubber mat for the floor to keep the heat down and the carpet clean. It helps a little with the sound, But not much.
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Sorry Ron D. the Ford logoed plastic wrap for the floor insulation kit that came from QuietSolutions went out yesterday with the recycling!....you might call QuietSolutions and ask them....I do not think placing on top of your carpet is the right approach, everything I have read states clearly that for any sound absorbing applications the product has to be stuck down and all curves, etc must be rolled tight and edges need to be taped off to get the most effect.
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PP...when you get onto the QuietRide site go to AccousticShiled headers, then click on order on line and under Econoline the total kit shows up clearly. Good luck. Ron G.
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Ron, we have the Ford rubber mat "installed" over the carpet. I believe the pricing for the mat was somewhere around $400. Ours is used. Phoenix put it in when we were having so much trouble with the noise in our cab right after purchase. They had pulled it out of a chassis that came in to them so it is damaged in some spots from the removal (I assume it was glued down previously and they just ripped it out to ready the cab for the "Phoenix touch"). They offered it to us when Ford said they couldn't do anything for the noise. I hope to eventually pull the seats, remove the mat, remove the carpet, and then reinstall the mat. My concern is water. Any water that gets in around the openings or edges of the mat will go into that carpet and stay there. NOT good for the floor. There are decent size openings around the seat bases that concern me. I don't know if you would have these openings with a new mat or if it is because it was cut to fit a different pedestal. If the openings are pre-cut, I'd suggest coating the floor with some sort of waterproofing in that area before installing the mat. The mat is thick and squishy so I don't know how it would work to install carpet over it. I'd check with Ford first to see how they do it. I think they have a flatter insulation mat that goes under carpet. The rubber one we have is from an ambulance or something.
I considered having that spray on truck bed stuff installed but we got the mat and that ended that. Someone suggested finding an installer and arranging to be there when they sprayed a truck bed as they may be able to add on coating the cab of the rig for a fraction of a single install price. I have no idea how long it would stink in there if we did that but it's an option.
We LOVE the Ford mat. It cut down on heat, noise and serious mess. I just sweep it out and occasionally wipe it down. We do have WeatherTech mats on top of it each side to catch the big chunks of crud so we can just tip those out for a quick clean but the passenger side mat moves around a lot. Tom, do you have the mat to fit across the entire cab as one piece? The website didn't list the E-Series and we were not sure if the F-Series mat would fit. We bought the WeatherTech side window deflectors for the F-Series F-450 and they DON'T fit. I haven't attempted to cut them down to size yet so they are in our storage unit, taunting me.
I will now be looking into the QuietRide Solutions for the doors and such. Insulating that cab would be helpful. (Don't tell John I'm shopping for RV stuff again - I'll break it to him when the time is right... like when it's over 100 degrees out and the AC struggles to keep up... THEN he'll think the insulation is a brilliant plan).
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Thank you for the issues with the OEM Ford full-coverage insulation-backed rubber mat. $400 for a new one is far too much for my budget. I'd rather spend that kind of money elsewhere in the PC. I will keep an eye open for a used one somewhere. It would be interesting to give it a try with consideration to all the concerns mentioned.
Ron
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Moisture entrapment is and should be a concern for all of us and one should do everything possible to ensure there is no water getting in anywhere. With that said there is not a new car on the road without extensive insulation in the floor, trunk and door areas and the manufacturers still offer and extended rust perforation warranty. The way the QuieteRide insulation sticks I am not overly worried that water can somehow get under it. A rubber mat that does not breathe at all may be another story? I do wonder if PC's unwillingness to do anything inside the door panels may have something to do with Fords rust warranty?
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I must admit, I’m a little mystified by this whole discussion. After 35 years of RVing, we had to sell our 3100 due to age/health issues. This was after first owning a 2900 (no longer made). The 2900 had wandering steering, a hot doghouse, and was kind of noisy. But then, after all, it was a truck. The 3100 was a vast improvement. It drove great, much quieter, no floor heat problem, and for us, a perfect floor plan. We weren’t too concerned with minor issues while driving as that was generally a small part of our time in the PC. And for us, the speakers was not an issue as we rarely used them – using driving time for sightseeing, planning, talking, contemplation, and being thankful that we had this lifestyle. Frankly, we didn’t spend money on trying to fix things that only involved driving and didn’t affect our camping experience. Just my humble observations.
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Holly my mats are the two piece floor mats, all the way on the right side of their web site. Use "ECONOLINE E-SERIES" for the model.
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The "heat problem" should take care of any moisture In that area, if it won't , seems to me there is no heat problem. I have owned other older rv's with the E450 chassis that were much noisier than my Phoenix and in one case did take up the carpeting and apply a sound deadening rubber material directly on the metal cab floor, that resulted in an improvement but not an elimination of the issue. My Phoenix is acceptable to me without any alterations. I don't think the money and effort would be worth the results.
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Well said Go Phoenix! We used to camp with four kids six bikes and a 30 foot TT. We would row down the windows so I didn't have to worry about overheating. I would rather spend the limited funds on vacation fun than vehicle comforts. However, safety items got fixed every time.
I wish I had seen your PC sooner. Would have loved to buy it. Hope you are doing fine. I am still looking for a PC.
Ron
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Obviously, every one of us has differing opinions as to what brings enjoyment to our driving experience. Having had several diesel pushers I can say that I do miss the quite cab vs's the noise and heat that comes from the PC's large V-10 sitting between me and my passenger. I like to listen to Sirius radio and I do not like to listen to classical music coming from "tinny" Ford OEM FedX truck speakers, so a very simple upgrade to Infinity speakers at a cost of $100.oo was worth every cent to me. Not hearing trucks whizzing by on the expressway or the roar of the Ford downshifting on a hill was worth the $385.00 to me. When you invest way over $100,000 in a vehicle you should expect a lot and to tolerate anything less than what you expected is sad. Many competitors of PC including Born Free, Renegade, and Coach House all offer significant insulation packages because their consumers demand such quality. If my modest investment in insulation/speakers brings my coach comfort level up by nearly 50% I would say it was all worth it. Until you actually hear the improvement that is gained you do not know what you are missing....Thanks, Ron G.
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Obviously, every one of us has differing opinions as to what brings enjoyment to our driving experience.....Thanks, Ron G.
Surely so!
It is also a hobby of mine making the little improvements/changes and personal nice-ities on our PC. It's not everybody's hobby of which I understand. The forum here is the perfect place for us to share our ideas. Our ideas are not for everyone. I know that sometimes my written thoughts and comments sometimes come across as "absolute musts" for everyone to consider. I do apologize for that.
Ron Dittmer
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I installed a DB meter (Decibal 10 - free) on my iPad. As we are driving under various conditions I checked the noise level. We are running at between 60-70. This is very acceptable to us since normal conversation at 3 feet is 60-70 DB. We have no noise issues in our cab or coach.
Sue
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Sorry I have been so slow in updating the forum after we picked up our 2351. First thing is we LOVE it. The bathroom reconfiguration turned out just the way we wanted it. We were told it was the second time they had done it. The first was for a couple were one was handicapped. We have had a few issues that will need to be addressed at the factory in late September, but overall we have a very positive opinion. We had the following issues:
1) We had problems with the RJ 45 type communication connections between the thermostat and air conditioner. We had air for the two night in Elkhart, but then drove home for 3 days before leaving on a longer trip. I was going to run the generator a bit to get the break in going, and viola-no air conditioner. Not good on a Friday afternoon before a Sunday departure. I got a hold of a Dometic certified repair service just south of the Mackinac Bridge for a Monday morning appointment. There were two coupling that had not been crimped tightly enough, one on the thermostat and one on the air conditioner. It took them about an hour and a half to trouble shoot these. I've since had the furnace fan come on, had to pull the fuse to reset it to off and then later a clicking noise from the furnace, like it was trying to light in 85 degree weather. Pulled the fuse again and left it overnight. Put the fuse back in and it hasn't done it again. I've asked PC to check all the connections when we get there.
2) They forgot to do 2 customizations - one the dynalight metal around the stove and secondly the shelves in the bedroom. Those will be done in September.
3) We had the braces that hold up both dinette seat cushions come loose on the rear of the cushion. These were held on with 4 staple nails driven in with a power nailer. They rattled loose just from road vibration. I've screwed them on with 6 screws, but I'm going to check at the factory because it seems there should be a brace under the rail.
4) They didn't install the cell phone booster correctly, either didn't read or understand the instructions. They drilled the hole right in the front cap and it should be 10 to 15 feet away from he internal antenna and on a small metal plate. I have to work out with PC how we fix this without an ugly hole in the front cap.
5) Not PC fault, but the alignment was so bad on the front end that I needed a eight of a turn on the steering wheel to keep it on the road on the way home. My alignment guys had to add 2 spacers to get it in alignment.
Overall not bad for a big piece of equipment. And again we love it. I've attached some pictures if you want more or what to discuss anything, just PM me.
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Hi,
I am having a 2351 built and was wondering if you ever got your cell phone booster issue resolved. I am thinking about using the same Weboost 4GX-OTR antenna and having it installed on the back of the luggage rack on the drivers side. I plan to have the inside antenna installed in the stereo cabinet behind the passengers seat. Any suggestions?
Thanks for all your input and sharing.
Dave
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We got out lesson on reading the instructions. Our air compressor cylinder to allow the installed braking system on the tow car to operate without air brakes on he new PC was not properly installed. Instructions which came with the unit called for the brake line activator to be installed at the front brake lines... It was installed at the rear. The brakes are 60% front and 40% rear so that gives us less braking than is considered by Roadmaster to be appropriate.
Our visits to various Hitch company's in Elkhart left us with no solution. No One will touch it with a ten foot pole.. No fix...No one wants the liability risk.We have yet to determine if Roadmaster in Vancouver Washington will make the correction if we drive from Florida to Vancouver, Washington.
We are considering this even though we have no other reason to be in Vancouver. So not an easy fix. Not sure what the question was we failed to ask... Patricia & Jim
P S the tow car is a 2015 Jeep Wrangler 4 door that was set up for class A towing The light that is supposed to come on when brakes in tow car are activated comes on at all kinds of times and is located on the dash in an area not visible to the person sitting in. The drivers seat.
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Polish Price George & Jill,
I have been meaning to tell you that I really love your extra wide kitchen drawers. If we had them, that would have saved me a pile of work in making the standard ones 85% bigger in our 2350 HERE (http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,1751.0.html).
Ron Dittmer
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Hi,
I am having a 2351 built and was wondering if you ever got your cell phone booster issue resolved. I am thinking about using the same Weboost 4GX-OTR antenna and having it installed on the back of the luggage rack on the drivers side. I plan to have the inside antenna installed in the stereo cabinet behind the passengers seat. Any suggestions?
Thanks for all your input and sharing.
Dave
Yes, we got the issue resolved by moving the interior antenna to the cabinet next to the door. It gave us enough separation and it now works great. We are going to velcro it on that cabinet wall and put up a dual remote holder there for our phones. Everything will be driven of the blue tooth to the truck or to ear receivers. It has provided a 1-2 boost in cell coverage, which is about all we can ask for.
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Great to hear you got the booster working!
Thanks,
Dave
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Hi
Just wanted to know how you like your 2351 so far. Is there anything that you would change or add? Any issues and what you love?
Thanks!
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RE: Front cab noise and heat.
I installed sound dampening, radiant heat barrier and a PVC mat for a floor treatment.
https://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php?topic=3016.msg25145#msg25145
MUCH quieter, floor stays cool, easily cleaned and looks Great. Not a difficult job either. The 'entering the coach smell' of old carpet is gone also. :-D (cheer) With the new flooring out back and front it smells like a new coach every time we open it. 2o2
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Hello. I am intrigued about the 2351 modifications you made- especially what you did in the rear of the coach. Is it possible for you to send me photos of the bathroom configuration and taking away some of the wall on the bathroom side of the bed? Also, how does it work without a bathroom door? Has you condidered deleting the shower?
I have a 2350 built in 2014 (it was actually the first 2351 floorplan with the dinette). I am considering upgrading to a 2018 or 2019 model 2351 on the e450 chassis and was VERY interested in what you did.
Thanks-
Martha
mslavonic08@yahoo.com
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I like THIS (https://www.phoenixusarv.com/2018-Phoenix-Cruiser-2351-10820.html) brand new 2351 phoenix has in inventory. As many of you know, slide-outs are "not my thing" but that is a very nice rig. The galley base cabinet is awesome with much bigger drawers, and the bigger counter above it. We love our dinette "Immensely" would never own a motor home without one again. That rig appears to have the same dinette cushions as we have. Our dinette is comfortable to sit at for extended periods, so I assume that one offers the same good roomy comfort. I know many of you love the Euro chair, but our bolted-down 3rd matching captain seat in that position with seat belt is hard to beat....for us anyway. It is very comfortable, offers a comfortable seat for someone to travel in, and is always out of our way, important with our no-slide-out floor plan.
For educational purposes for anyone ordering a new 2350 or 2351, you can see what I mean by reviewing pictures of our no-slide 2350 dinette and captain seat HERE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/sets/72157617468317295), and HERE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/37432012@N08/albums/72157682846402944). Some pictures show our earlier cloth cushions which we replaced with the darker green vinyl with thinner more dense memory foam. We don't recommend the basic foam cushions. Pay the extra money and get the thinner, more dense, vinyl-covered memory foam.