Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: SpiderWebb on November 26, 2015, 04:49:09 pm
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Happy Thanksgiving. We are soon to be first time RV owners and we’ve landed on Phoenix Cruiser for many reasons including this helpful forum. I’ve been monitoring the PC forum for the past 6-8 months so I feel like I know a number of you! I looked at past threads but didn’t find this topic. Here is our dilemma. Our initial focus was on the 2351 (25 ft.) for the drivability and maneuverability, etc. We then briefly considered the 2552 … but after visiting PC in Elkhart we lit up on the 3100 (31 ft.) as it checked all of our boxes for both needs and wants (livability, storage, fixed dinette & sofa, larger bathroom, etc.). Note, it will only be the two of us and our purpose for the RV is to explore the US and Canada …with an emphasis on National Parks. Most trips will be 2 weeks with a few longer trips that could take us out 3-4 weeks. We are not interested in towing a vehicle so this would be both our traveling residence as well as our primary means of transportation. I could see us on rare occasion renting a car in certain situations (i.e. in larger cities, etc.) …but that would be the exception. So the question of the day is …generally would the additional 6 feet in length of the 3100 present challenges often and/or significant enough in terms of: 1. parking in towns; 2. driving in towns and/or National Parks; 3. parking in turn-outs for viewing scenery, etc.; 4. parking in tighter spaces in RV campgrounds… to compel us to reconsider the 2351 and its shorter length? Knowing this is somewhat subjective, we appreciate all opinions and perspectives …particularly those who have gone from 25 ft. to 31 ft. RV’s… or the other way around, or those who own either of these two models. Thanks for your consideration. Steve
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The questions you ask are the very reasons why we own a 2350, the just a foot smaller model to the 2351. Candidly, I can't personally imagine trying to hassle 31 feet of motor home in not many but most of the places we go, including national parks, BLM, NF, etc. And pulling over to view something would be just a bridge too far for me in anything that long. Others may share a very different opinion and experience, but we own a smallish Class C because of all those considerations. AND, I certainly can't imagine doing that kind of exploring without a towed vehicle with a 31 footer. Just our experience and opinion.
Paul
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We downsized from a 30 foot class A because we hated the hassle of towing but neither were we happy moving about and sight seeing in our 30 footer without towing. Just takes too much space to pull over, especially in crowded areas. Many times we wanted to pull over to see a view but just couldn't park. Many nfs, NP or state parks limit size to 27 feet or less. We briefly owned a 27 footer b+ that could not comfortably park in some small downtown areas, i.e., st augustine Florida, Jackson hole, Yellowstone and the list goes on. We are VERY happy with our 2350. We can pull off on the roadside very easily. We did rent a car for last years trip to Acadia. The roads and traffic in the park we not conducive for driving in even the 24 footer. There are sacrifices on every motor home choice. You give up something to get something. Oh yes, we rarely worry about stopping at macdonalds for a quick lunch. Most places can accommodate our 24 footer, even dairy queen😀
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I completely agree with BuffaloRose and Doneworking. We have owned our 2350 for 8.5 years to date. We exclusively stay in national parks, monuments, forests, BLMs, and state parks. When not in those places, we stay in Walmarts and rest areas. We travel once a year for 2 to 4 weeks to such places. The 2350 will work in all places mentioned except during peak season when even a regular vehicle parking spot is hard to find. Because we like to explore down roads that are not friendly for a motor home, we tow our Jeep Liberty. I think off season (after the kids are back in school) the 2350 will work well for getting around. Given the 2351 is only one foot longer, I don't think it will make big difference, just a minor to moderate difference. 6 feet longer is another story. It is remarkable the impact just a couple feet makes in getting around.
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Steve,
Go with smaller.
After 95,000 miles in a 24ft Sprinter, our need for "elder comfort" lead us to having a regular bed. I really miss all the agility, parkability, turnability, accessabilty, etc. that we used to have. Trips now are more park and sit rather than poke around all day then look for a place for the night. A lot of the fun and freedom is gone.
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All: I can't thank you enough for your candid feedback and counsel. Having never done this ...your perspective has great value. We will plan to hike back up to Elkhart to spend more time in the 2351 with the goal of making that footprint work for us... rather than be seduced by the creature comforts of the 3100.
Steve
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Steve,
My wife and I have a 3100. We like it a lot. We travel with four small dogs and have pretty much mastered "the dance."
I do all the driving and since we've owned the rig, we have RVed about 12,000 miles. I have never had an issue with the situations you outlined. The truck mirrors and the rear view camera make driving the 3100 a breeze. With the V-10 Triton engine, our MPG is quite reasonable.
We've had our rig about a year and a half. In that time, there have been some mechanical issues but the factory took care of them with no hassle. On our last road trip, we went to the factory for some "adjustments" and were happy with how we were treated.
Our layout consists of two twin beds (each across the aisle from each other), a dinette, and a dual recliner sofa in the slide-out.
In the cab, I have a ham radio, a CB radio, a ScanGauge, and a large screen GPS. We tow a Honda CR-V and with a Blue Ox towing setup, that is also a breeze.
Would we buy another Phoenix Cruiser? Yes. Would it be a 3100? Yes.
If I can answer any more questions, please feel free to email me: travelmutts@gmail.com
Stu
St. Helena, CA
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Our 3100 was not a problem. Just depends on how you travel. We rarely stayed in national or state parks, almost exclusively in private parks with all the amenities. Have never stayed in a Walmart or rest area. We usually stayed for several days, sometimes a month, and always made heavy use of our tow car (pic). We first had a 2900 (not made now) and traded for the 3100 which fit our style better. If there was one “best” model (or even one “best” RV style), everyone would own the same one. Buy what fits your style of travel. The only time we did not take a tow car was on our Alaska trip and Route 66 trip which worked out for the best: http://www.mytripjournal.com/HistoricRoute66. We loved the 3100 and never regretted the choice.
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You have a lot of advice but if you are not going to tow I would not go for the 31. I have owned 24, 28, and several 36 before downsizing to the 2551. would not go larger unless I was going to tow.
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Steve,
I also have the 2351 in my sights... and am soaking up all of the information that's being posted. Many thanks for the sharing of each person's perspective. It certainly is helping define my own.
Jim
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I can’t resist sharing some thoughts, even if they have already been expressed here by others.
When we first became RVers many years ago, we didn’t ever want to tow anything behind our motorhome. But it didn’t take us long to change our minds. On many trips having the freedom to just go with the motorhome until we found a new place to camp was very desirable.
But, occasionally we wanted to stay in one location for several days and explore the vicinity in several directions from our campsite. It became a pain to breakdown camp at least somewhat in order to drive away in the motorhome for the day. That’s when we realized how nice it would be to leave the motorhome in the set up campsite and drive around in a small vehicle.
Since those days we’ve owned several motorhomes and have always been ready to take along the towed car. It is much easier to do this than we had imagined when we were new to this lifestyle. Over the years we have met many RVers that have gone through the same learning process.
So, my recommendation is to buy the model of motorhome that you will be comfortable using as a camping unit and have the ability to tow when you might want.
Our first PC was a 2350, but we found that the bed and bath areas were too small for our comfort level. The 2552 that we’ve been using for more than two years fits us perfectly. We almost always tow the Honda CR-V to use as described above and also to bring more camping gear with us on trips.
--Bruce
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Ditto what Bruce said.
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The perspectives and experience of you long-time RV'ers is invaluable and we are very appreciative of all the thoughtful input. From our perspective, we would certainly not go smaller than what would meet first ...all our needs ...followed by as many of our "wants" as possible. The trade-off for us is how many additional "wants" in terms of livability would we forgo in exchange for drivability and maneuverability, etc. We will take the time and expense to go back to Phoenix Cruiser in Elkhart and spend time with the 2351 to ensure that it does meet our needs ...then compare how many of our wants it provides compared to the 3100. Although I do have an initial aversion to towing ...it is something that we will investigate to understand the ease of doing so. This entire thread absolutely confirms why this Phoenix Cruiser forum community is so important and valuable to our decision to go with a new PC. We plan to get this decision made and our new PC ordered by the end of January (weather permitting for travel to Elkhart) ...and I will report back to all with our final decision. Our best to you all and our thanks for your consideration. Steve & Jennifer Webb
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Steve / Jennifer:
Joni and I have neither model you are considering (we have a 2552), but I don't think you mentioned if you previously owned an RV and if so, if you ever towed. Our PC was our first RV and (obviously) the first time towing. We went back and forth about whether to tow or not, and whether renting in certain cities would be more beneficial. We opted to tow and are glad we did. It didn't take that long to streamline the process of setting up at a campground/park and conversely buttoning things up, however we now know we would not want to do it on a regular basis to go sightseeing, the grocery, the RV parts store, the restaurant, etc etc. Also, aside from the setup and tear down, there is the additional gas expended in a low MPG vehicle using the RV for those side trips. One other benefit of towing for us has been the ability to stop much quicker, since there is an auxiliary braking system in the tow vehicle. This comes in handy much more often than I would have imagined. Last positive aspect of towing is the additional space you have in the towed vehicle for 'stuff'. We generally keep beach-gear, chairs and our home-made dog anchors in there which is helpful given the finite storage space in a class B+.
The down-side to towing (for us) has been additional gas expended while normally towing (and especially uphill) and the additional expense for the gear (aux braking system, tow bar, brake/turn signal system, baseplate, etc.) I guess we should include wear and tear (tires) but no additional mileage racks up on the odometer.
Lastly, we've really become proficient at connecting and disconnecting our tow vehicle. Takes us about 2 minutes. This is with a Blue Ox tow bar/baseplate on a Ford Edge LTD.
Of course, the towing option is always available to you later if you find you'd really like to have it.
- Mike
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Mike (Pax), you said it so well.
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I have owned 24', 27', 31', 34', 36', 40', and 41' foot motor homes. I found that the bigger it was the more I enjoyed it while it was parked. When driving, the smaller units were much more easy to drive and maneuver, less stressful. How will you spend most of your time, staying put in the camp ground or doing side trips? We enjoy the side trips sightseeing and eating in the small local restaurants. We currently have a Phoenix 3100 and tow a 12' enclosed trailer with a trike motorcycle in it for the local touring and exploring. We will probably soon be towing a small car. No, I don't like to tow but do feel that it definitely is worth it due to the freedom and flexibility it gives us. We are very happy with our 3100. Sure a 23' motor home is is easier to park than a 31', but a 14' car is a lot easier than the 23' coach. No one size fits all in the Rv world. Best of luck, you have selected a good brand of motor home.
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I have owned coaches 27,32,36,38,24, 25 and now 31 foot length. Like DynaDave the big ones are great when parked but a pain otherwise. While you may think breaking camp to go get milk is easy it gets old very fast. While I do not really enjoy towing my Jeep it does give me more flexibility to take more toys including my kayaks, bikes, etc. The 31' is perfect for a couple and gives you plenty of storage and room to live. As a couple we found the shorter length coaches are just to confining and the corner beds just do not work for us. Every one has different needs and wants and certainly no one floor plan meets the needs of everyone. A slide in what ever size coach you decide on is a must. I am still hoping that PC comes out with a new model just a little longer, perhaps a 33' on the Dodge/Ford 5500/F series chassis, Dynamax and Born Free have such coaches now I would be very inclined to purchase such a unit. Best of luck in your selection process. Ron G.
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Ron,
We agree with everything in your comments. We could not deal with the corner bed in the 2350. The 2551 was a good unit but we wanted more room--the creature comforts during our 4 month exodus out of Florida. The 2910, for us, fits the bill. And yes, the slide is a must have!
We tow a Honda Fit--kayaks on top and assorted beach chairs, beach umbrellas etc. in the back. We have the freedom to take day trips without breaking up camp.
Now if PC built a little larger unit as you outlined, we would probably be the owners of our 4th PC!
Judi
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Mike (Pax): Very helpful perspective. No matter which unit we purchase ...we will investigate the towing option ...likely after we get some RV'ing under our belt. This is another reason we have PC at the head of our list ...with the Ford platform (either E350 or E450) there is ample capacity and power to tow ...vs. some of the smaller Sprinter platforms we've looked at. Interestingly, I have a perfect vehicle .. a new Jeep Wrangler 4 door that is currently an extra vehicle in our garage. Lots to learn for us in this new adventure called RV'ing!! Thanks for the note.
Steve
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I highly recommend you "test camp" in a rented RV prior to purchase. We had a ton of camping experience but zilch RV experience so we spent two weeks camping with no tow vehicle. We had promised ourselves we would remain in camp the entire time since the trip was to test the livability of an RV and discover what we did or did not like about the bed, bath, kitchen, etc. However, we gave in to our whims and broke camp several times to run off and check out local attractions. This actually was good. We discovered it was fairly easy to unhook water and electric but there was so much "stuff" not secured inside at any given time and all that had to be cleaned up and stowed prior to driving. We also worried about some of the rough roads we drove on. The rental units are usually not in perfect shape and the clanking and rattling while we drove down the road told us we would not want to take our permanent "house" down the rougher roads if we could avoid it.
We had differing opinions on towing prior to the trip. By the end of the trip, we agreed we would tow. We also knew that we wanted a permanent bed but not a corner bed, we needed functional space in the kitchen and many other little things. We kept a notebook and pen on the table while we test camped and each wrote down our thoughts on what we liked and didn't like. That trip was invaluable to us and we feel like we really hit it right when we ordered our 2552.
It's not cheap to rent an RV but gave us great confidence in our decisions and saved us money in the long run.
H