Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Doneworking on August 25, 2015, 09:58:32 pm
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Today was the day to work on the macerator. At the end of a three week trip two weeks ago, the pump started leaking whether running or not when the valves were open. I closed both gray and black valves after dumping in Amarillo, Texas and drove on home to Oklahoma City (about 260 miles). I got the rig out of storage today and took a look. It was leaking at the connection where the pump bayonets to the black discharge line. I removed the pump and checked it out, halfway guessing the housing was cracked. No cracks. I took out the flat ring and o ring seals, cleaned them and their seats and re-installed the pump. Still leaking.
Now, this is a pretty simple setup. The pump simply twists onto its receiver and leaks are prevented by the two rings. What could be wrong? Well, here is what it was:
The pump is secured with its bayonet fitting and is supported by a U shaped support which is bolted through the bottom of the storage area for the Sani Com system. Other models may differ from my 2350 in specifics of where the pump is located. I noticed that the pump was not really in line with the black sewer pipe that fed into it. When installed, the pump was pulled upward by the U support about a half an inch, putting strain on the mounting at the bayonet. Over the three years since the rig was made (purchased in September 2012) that stress created by the misalignment had caused a small amount of distortion in the pump and the excess and uneven compression caused the o ring to no longer seal properly.
The solution was to lower one end of the U support a half inch by using a longer bolt and spacer to allow the pump to align. Since the pump is only about 12 inches long, a half inch upward pull on one end is significant. The installation manual for the pump indicates that the end should be secured in a way to support it with some flexibility. It is a long way from a little flexibility to being essentially bent upward a half inch and rigidly installed. No leaks now. I filled both tanks and dumped them using the pump and all is well. When something doesn't fit, forcing it to do so can result in a heck of a mess and problem sometime later for the owner.
Also today, I fixed one of the struts that hold up the back storage area access door (where we store our hoses and the power cords on all PCs). It had come loose from the door and all three screws had popped out. No wonder. When it was installed the bracket at the base of the strut was installed to a support that apparently had missed a screw or rivet and was flexing. Who ever had installed it at the factory must have known of the problem because there were two sets of three holes, the sets being about 3/4 inch apart. At first if it doesn't work, just move it over! Glad Boeing doesn't do that building planes :beg
I reinforced the strut bracket mounting so it would not flex, re-installed the strut in the proper location. I replaced the screws on both struts where they mount to the door with screws both slightly longer and with a larger diameter to decrease pressure on the mounting. One size screw just doesn't cut it everywhere a screw is used :'(
I report both of these repairs to my fellow owners so that if you have these problems you can profit from my experience. If the macerator leaks, check the alignment. You might also check your two struts to make sure they are properly secured.
Phoenix Cruisers clearly enjoy a built quality much higher than most Class C motor homes. But regardless of that, just a simple error or "hurry up" on the production line can cause a real pain in the fanny for the owner sometime in the future. A couple of minutes saved is a couple of hours spent by the purchaser repairing a problem that should never had occurred.
Paul
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Thanks for that info! Always good to know what others have encountered. I'll be checking my pump and struts a bit more carefully now. (Oh, and congrats on your 100th post!) ;)
- Mike
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Thanks Paul for your findings on these two problem areas. I also re-installed the struts last winter when in Arizona. Will also check my pumps alignment. Posts like yours is why I try and check this forum on most days.
Denny
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Thanks, Denny. I find this forum to be most helpful to me. Every brand and every model has specific quirks and tendencies it seems. We need to share them so we can be prepared or perhaps avoid a problem.
My best example to date was the posts a couple of months ago about the darn refrigerator doors falling off! I read the posts, ordered the support kit from Amazon and went on a long trip boondocking far off from civilization and cell phone service. Now, wouldn't that have been a real hoot to have the door fall off thirty miles from civilization? Those posts probably saved me some real agony. When I examined the design of the door hinge on the refrig, I was shocked. When I researched it further and found out it had been a known problem by the refrigerator manufacturer for years I was more shocked. Such is life in the world of 2015.
By the way, the O ring in the macerator is simply a 3" ID standard sized ring. I went to four stores to buy a couple to replace the existing one and have an extra. Tractor Supply, Lowes, Home Depot and a large Ace Hardware. None sold O rings except plumbing rings for household plumbing repairs. I was shocked. The reason, one guy told me was because "most people don't repair things anymore, they just replace them". That was a sad indictment of contemporary attitudes, but true I guess. Now, I am going online and buy a couple to have for the future. I just lubricated the existing ring and replaced it.
Paul
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I checked the grinder pump and door strut alignments and all appears well but while inspecting the grinder pump I noticed the small clear plastic bypass line had a KINK completely closeing off the bypass. The tubing appears to be too long so I removed it, cut a short piece off reinstalled it and when testing it a small leak showed up. At first I thought I may have punctured the pump discharge hose but upon closer inspection I discovered the leak was on the small thread of one of the 90 deg elbow fittings in the bypass line. I removed the bypass line once again, retightened the fitting reassembled and all appears to be well again. Anybody else ever had an issue the bypass line?
Just one more thing to be mindful of when working around the grinder pump.
I am new to this forum but enjoy the wealth of information as well as the knowledge of the participants. I look forward to each session. 2o2
John
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John, I forgot to mention that in my original post. Yep. Mine had a crimp in it also. Assuming they are all cut to the same length, I would be surprised if everyone didn't have or will have that problem.
Paul
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One more Sanicon question. Does anyone know how to empty the discharge hose when done emptying tanks. I have watched the video but have not seen this addressed. I have tried several things but can't break the vacuum on the hose and have to stow while it is full. Is there a magic technique to empty the hose? Anyone else experience this and how did you overcome it?
John
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John,
Here's my experience with emptying the hose:
I find the macerator hose a little slow to drain when the pump is off, but I've never had to stow it full of water. I make sure that there is a small gap between the dump receptacle and the end of the hose so that air can get in to break any vacuum in the hose and then start lifting the hose starting at the storage compartment and walking it up to the dump (shaking the hose a little as I go). Usually take three or four times doing this before the hose is practically empty. Then I cap the end of the hose and don't worry about the small amount still in the hose--it's almost clear gray water at that point.
That's what I do. Hope this helps.
--Bruce
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Bruce,
Thank you for the reply. I will give your suggestion a try. I have actually let the open end dangle over the open inlet without success but have not tried shaking it. I have also tried to empty the hose with both valves open after dumping the tanks hoping that would break the vacuum.
John 5:)
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I'm not understanding the vacuum. We do the hose walk and wiggle thing to empty the last bit of liquid but have never noticed any type of vacuum.
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I modified my system and posted it under http://forum.phoenixusarv.com/index.php/topic,465.msg2708.html#msg2708
It works great but just don't forget to close the valve afterwards or the next time you use the sani-con you will get a surprise.
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John
I noticed just yesterday that I have a kink in the clear bypass hose. What exactly is the hose for? I am not mechanically inclined, but assume that removing the hose and shortening it is no big deal?
Mike
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An analogy of the vacuum on the drain hose is like what happens to liquid in a straw when you put your finger over one end and the liquid no longer flows out of the other end. You break the vacuum by letting some air into the system.
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Hi Mike,
That short piece of clear plastic tubing is to bypass grey water into the black tank by gravity. You might use this feature when you are dry camping and you run out of capacity in the gray tank with no place to dump so you can let the grey water feed over into the black tank through the little hose to you give you more time to use your grey tank before dumping. I have not used this feature but in looking at my own bypass it would not have worked anyway due to the kink.
I think Sanicon can provide directions on the best use of this function.
Hope this helps. :help
John
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My understanding is the hose just bypasses the pump. If you open the gray valve with the hose connected to the sewer hole the gray will just run out and bypassing the pump. This will keep the gray tank from filling up with out running the pump. You can leave it this way for days if you are staying in one place.
To equalize the two tanks, just open the gray valve and then the black tank. The pump has nothing to do with this procedure. Or you can hook up a 3" hose to the back hole, open the valve by it and open the gray valve.
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Here is the use for the Bypass copied and pasted from the manual. Essentially, as I understand it, it simply allows the gray to run out by gravity. "Dripping Gray" is acceptable in some National Forests and BLM lands in the West. I have had forest officials tell me out there that it is helpful because of the drought. It also allows you to drain your gray tank without running the pump.
Using the Gray Water Bypass
Caution: To avoid the risk or the
pump running dry, do NOT turn
the pump on to use the gray water
bypass, as the gray water bypass
relies on gravity.
!
1. Make sure that the black and gray
water RV dump valves are closed.
2. Point the nozzle upward and remove
the nozzle cap.
3. Insert the nozzle into the sewer
connection and give it a half-turn to
lock the nozzle into the connection.
Note: The nozzle has a 4 in. (10.2 cm)
and a 3 in. (7.6 cm) threaded
section that adapts to 4 in.
(10.2 cm) and 3 in. (7.6 cm)
threaded sewer pipes.
Note: If the sewer pipe is non-threaded,
use the tapered press-fit section
on the nozzle to connect to the
sewer.
4. Open the gray water valve to let the
gray water drain into the sewer.
Obviously, with the kink many are experiencing she be a no-go until the kink is removed. I carry a 15 foot garden hose (called a "remnant hose at Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) and hook it up the standard "emergency drain" on my rig. In case a kernel of corn or something goes down the sink, I suspect that little bypass tubing on the pump might be vulnerable to being clogged. Works good for me on this and previous units.
MODIFICATION: I posted this seconds after TomHanlon made the same post. Sorry for the same info twice.
Paul
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Many of these items may seem insignificant however it really shows a lack of Quality control at the factory. I E I thought the antennae on my rig was a joke, it never made a difference which way I turned it. I simply figured it was the nature of the antennae . On my last outing I saw that the cable and boot had come out of the antennae base and was laying loose on top of the rv. I removed the Antennae to find the
cable that should be connect to it laying inside with a cut blunt end. It had never been connected from Day one. Its not a huge deal but it shows a lack of quality control. These kind of things can hurt a manufacturer and they need to address it. For that matter mine is a 2011 and they very well may have addressed these kind of issues already.
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Joseph--
I 100% agree.
Despite leaky water connections and a TV that was totally unsecured on one side, I've given PC the benefit of the doubt. But I've also wondered, at times, just what their final quality control process is, especially when I see other postings about problems that should have been avoidable. I still think they are a high quality manufacturer--especially compared to many others--and their after-sales support is tremendous. But I'd rather see things come out right the first time. Consistently.
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I have owned products made by Fleetwood, Forest River, Monaco, Alpine and 3 from Phoenix. Without question, Phoenix provided a product more free of defects from the factory than any of the others. If I ever get back into this, you can bet it'll be made by Phoenix.
And this is aside from their exemplary after sale support.
"There ain't none better".
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Bob, I'm not trashing PC, and no doubt they rank up there with a few other top builders. That being said I see too many items being brought up here, such as plumbing leaks due to incorrect length pipes being installed and so on. The point being if you want to be on top and stay on top you need a team that wants the same. And I hear great things about after purchase support but its easier for everyone if quality control is kept in step. Quality control has to be run in its own entity. You can't have people checking there own work. You always need someone else to proof read you paper, so to speak.
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Joseph,
Never aimed my comment at anyone and was merely commenting about my personal experiences and satisfaction(s).
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... and Phoenix USA is paying for this forum. (nod)
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Go Phoenix.. So what does that mean? That I can not be concerned about quality control? I take your comment as an indication that I said something wrong in pointing out concerns? If its wrong to do so then a moderator needs to tell me so and I will remove myself from this forum as I wouldn't want to belong to one that believed in such a practice.
It's in everyone's best interest that quality is kept to the standards this company is known for. Anything less costs everyone, the company in re-works, and possible sales, and every owner in the value of the units they own.
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Bob, no worries, I didn't take it as an attack by any means, just pointing out my concerns and why they are a concern. I don't ever want to see PC to be considered anything other than a top tier manufacturer. If I was buying another RV it too would be a PC however as I am a tightwad, it would be another used one.
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... just sayin'. (nod)
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Go Phoenix, then it stands to reason they would want to hear concerns of the customers. Re-works take away from profit margins or are passed on to consumers in higher prices.
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I bop onto the forum at least once a day and have personally logged issues and responded to other people's requests for help with issues and have never seen any censoring on the part of Phoenix USA as it pertains to the motorhome. I know they will block people that get on the forum and repeatedly get nasty but they warn everyone of that. So yes, Phoenix does pay for this forum but they do not censor legitimate comments or concerns on the forum. They refer to it as "the owner's forum" and pretty much let us run with whatever we want.
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Well said Holly.
2o2
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I'm not going to fix our bypass tube because I sometimes open the black tank valve in order to dump gray into black. I prefer the contents of the black tank not drain into the drain hose.
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Hi all,
I recently experienced and observed some things about the Sanicon.
This past spring I replaced our broken down eight year old Sanicon pump. In the process I learned something about the small clear bypass tube. As many here, our original tube was kinked. I replaced the tube with a slightly longer one to remove the kink. With more flow through that tube, the main slinky expands much less during dumping and the waste water flows out slower. It seems part of the purpose of the bypass prevents a ruptured slinky if a blockage develops inside the slinky while pumping. I also wonder if I was better off with the kink for it takes longer now to drain our tanks for the kink increased pump pressure. I did experiment pinching the new tube which started to expand the slinky, confirming the increase in pump pressure.
I also understand the purpose and see the value of the clear plastic bypass tube for gravity draining gray water, but see another value in offering pressure relief when using the pump.
I do not see any relationship between the clear bypass tube and tank blending. Maybe our 2007 model 2350 is plumbed differently than the newer models in discussion.
Also during pump replacement, I too had to adjust the hanger to avoid an upward pull on the pump to avoid dripping at the adjacent 4 prong connection. The original pump didn't leak there but I tightened the hanger more with the new pump. Given we have the older perforated pump strap hanger, the adjustment was simple.
Regarding the reporting of deficiencies and defects, I encourage we all do so in a constructive and courteous manner as I see we are all doing. No complaints from me.