Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: jas on September 07, 2014, 12:03:03 am
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HI
I NEED HELP. JUST PICKED UP OUR 2919T LAST WEEK AND LOADED THE KITCHEN EQU. AND BEDING ABOUT 130 POUNDS. FULL OF WATER AND GAS.
ALSO ABOUT 150 POUNDS OF OUTER EQU. THEN I TOOK THE UNIT TO THE CAT WEIGHT STATION. 4484# FRONT AXEL AND 10120# REAR AXEL. SO I AM OVER LOADED.
REAR AXEL IS 9600#?.STILL NO FOOD OR CLOTHES LOADED. WHERE DID I GO WRONG? JAS JIM SMITH
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Jim,
I weighed my 2010 2551S while on a trip and it was fully loaded with fuel, water, supplies, and all our clothes and stuff, and two of us in the RV. The front axle was 4400 lbs and the rear axle was 8000 lbs for a total of 12400 lbs. You are at 14600 and still not fully loaded, probably over 15000 when loaded comparable to mine. That doesn't seem right for just 4 feet longer on your rig compared to mine, even with two more slides. Hopefully someone with a 2910T will post their weight and see how you compare to them. Can't believe that all the larger PCs are running around over the 14,500 lb Max GVWR.
Sorry I don't have a better answer for you.
Bob
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My 3100 with one slide, full tanks, two adults, fully loaded including 75 lb dog came in 1100 pounds under GVW and both axles were under max. capacity. I have not done individual wheel weight but would like to. Not sure what to say. Thanks
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I just looked back and found my specific numbers...fully loaded and ready to head out my 3100S came in at 13,600 lbs.; 9140 lbs rear; 4460 lbs front. 900 lbs under max. hope this helps? thanks
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Thanks Just found a web site about tires and wheels on class c and b's. www.ricksontruckwheels.com/wheels-ford-e350450php
jas jim
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Jas,
Reading your post made me wonder about our 2910T coming off the line next month. I just talked to Earl this morning. He told me that the yellow sticker inside the door has the vehicle weights on it. He told me ours should have around 2000 LBS of cargo carrying capacity (CCC). He was at the Hershey RV show & checked the 2015 Phoenix Cruiser 3100 they are showing there. It's the one pictured on the website inventory page. It has a CCC of 2200 LBS.
:)Makes me wonder if the scale operator didn't have you lined up quite right. Hope this all works out.
Dave
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Dave The 3100 has one slide and the 2910T has three. I don't know? I will get it weighed this week end and see. Also Kermit is checking on the problum.
the coach is leaning to the left 2,5 inches (drivers side) If you add water,fuel and propane this is about 1000# Thanks Jim
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Jas,
Reading your post made me wonder about our 2910T coming off the line next month. I just talked to Earl this morning. He told me that the yellow sticker inside the door has the vehicle weights on it. He told me ours should have around 2000 LBS of cargo carrying capacity (CCC). He was at the Hershey RV show & checked the 2015 Phoenix Cruiser 3100 they are showing there. It's the one pictured on the website inventory page. It has a CCC of 2200 LBS.
:)Makes me wonder if the scale operator didn't have you lined up quite right. Hope this all works out.
Dave
Jas,
Dave makes a good point, what does your sticker indicate for CCC? I looked at mine and the calculated CCC is for food and stuff (cargo); the fuel, water, propane, and people are included in the vehicle weight to determine the CCC.
Bob
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Bob Checked my coach and could not see a yellow sticker with the ccc weight. Checked both cab doors. On the drivers side
two with the GVW for each axel 5,000 front and 9,600 on the rear for a total 14,500# . This is for tire air psi. Jim
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Jim jas,
In the past, PC has placed a sticker about 6" x 5" or so, located on the inside of the right side kitchen galley door. Maybe they place it inside another door today. It explains the weight of the rig and the weight of added contents such as fresh water and propane, and the final CCC.
Regarding tire pressure recommendations, PC had always placed a sticker in the driver door jamb, for the recommended tire pressure, front and back tires.
If you don't have the stickers, call the factory and ask for them. I am confident they will send them to you.
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Jim,
Ron is correct, the sticker with the CCC should be inside one of the cabinet doors. Coincidentally, my sticker was missing and the factory sent one to me.
Bob
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Those stickers are so wrong it is a big joke. A manufacture can only guess at what it might be as they don't have scales. When you start allowing chanes to the orignal floor plan, are changing the weights. Like you add a slideout, maybe two or three of them, maybe you delete or add a cabinet, you change the weights. Do you really think the manufacture refigures what each option adds or subtracts?
On top of that, the owner then comes along and makes modifcations, like replacing a barrel chair with a captains chair, adding or changing cabinets. Then the wife comes along and moves the pots and pans from the overhead cabinets on the left side to her new kitchen draws on the right side. The weights have changed again.
Two things that some owner make a mistake about are the weight distribution when adding water and supples and the height of each side of the motorhome from the ground. They hear that they should weigh the RV when it is ready for a trip. This number can be close but will change during their trip. They fill the freash water tank, which can put a lot of pounds on one side, then they take a couple of showers, moving a lot of that weight from one side into the gray tank on the other side. Now your weight are changed again. Having the fresh water tank full and measuring the ride heigh then moving the water around to the other side will also change the ride heigh.
I have not heard of any chassis problems due to weight since the 1990's when Toyota was making the mini pickup for conversion to micro-mini motorhomes. The manufactures kept increasing the size of the box they put on the back trying to make them as roomy as a class C. Then the owner would put himself and his wife/girl friend in the front seat and add another couple with all the supplies in the back. Merrerly down the bumpy road they would go until the rear axle would bend or brake. They then wanted Toyota to repair their broken motorhome under warrenty. Toyota stopped making the mini pickup for RV conversion.
My point with all this is that knowing the weight and ride height can be some what usefull, but is to be taken with a grain of salt. After all just think about what happens when two of you sit in the front seats, move to the sofa or dinnitte, then go to bed in the rear. You have moved a lot of weight around, changing the weight distribution and ride height. Then there is that case of beer you brough along for the weekend. Did you move that weight.
Stop worrying and enjoy your RV.
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2o2
WELL SAID!!
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Agree.... (exactly)
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JAS
See my post of 10 Feb 2013 about overweight on the rear left duals after a shock from the results of weighing all four corners.
This is a real concern for me such that I NEVER FILL MY WATER TANK! We run with only a few gallons enough to get us to the next campground.
My first clue should have been the sticker on the driver door saying 85 pounds tire inflation which is 5 pounds over-inflated according to Michelin.
The second indication was the lean to the slide-outs (2) side which was compensated by adding shims to the springs.
I also note that my front-rear weights were within the front-rear limits. Yours being out of limits gives me considerable concern.
Dick
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Thanks everybody::: After pulling a 5th wheel 9 weeks from WV to the Montana then thru the provinces to Alaska and back. I had 3 tire problems on the 5th wheel,so i went the way of class B. So overloading a axel is Big to me. I know moving weight around does change things,but if the rear axel is over by 600# with no clothes and food
i don'tl like to start this way. So i will empty the water tank first. Still no word from Kermit. Also no yellow sticker on the cabnets. I will check again at the weight station
17.5 wheels and load range F or G plus one leaf spring $4,500 ouch Jim
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Just found my yellow sticker on the door frame of the passenger cab door. It is a small strip sticker, easy to miss.
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Just found my yellow sticker on the door frame of the passenger cab door. It is a small strip sticker, easy to miss.
Ann, any idea what yours weighs loaded for a trip? With that 450 chassis, you should have at least 2k lbs of cargo capacity I would think.....
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Bob, according to my sticker I should have 4041 lbs CCC, but like Tom said, that is based on an estimate from the factory. I won't really know until I get weighed at a scale, and I haven't had an opportunity to do that yet. The E450 chassis has 14500 lbs total capacity, and the factory estimates my rig weighs just over 10,000 lbs empty. My best estimate of my cargo weight, plus full fuel/water/LP, is about 1500 lbs, so I'm pretty confident that I'm within capacity.
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Hello all: Returned to the scales today. Removed all equipment from the 2910T just like it left the factory,full of fuel and LP.
No water. Got out stood off the scale. Front axel 4260 lbs (5000#max) Rear axel 9440 lbs (9500# max) for a total of
13,700# (14,500 max) Only 800# for driver,food clothes,wife,water and equ. Only 60# for the rear axel. Most will go to the front
axel. My son and I got in and reweighted. 400#total 300#went to the front axel and 100# went to the rear axel.Now front axel 4560 and rear 9540. rear axel over loaded 40# total 14,100 LBS. The CCC sticker on the cab door list 2,012 for cargo???
Will call Earl and Kermit Monday. JAS
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JAS,
That is not good news, let us know what the factory says.
Bob
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This thread is an eye opener for me with Phoenix. It is well known that cut-away chassis rigs in general, have issues with weight in the longer lengths. This is the first time I heard any PC having this problem. But it really should not be surprising when considering the length plus 3 slide-outs of model 2910T. It has me wondering the actual loaded up weight of a 2910D and 3100. How much more weight do their slide outs add? The tiny slide out option offered for our 2007 2350 added 400 pounds back in the day.
Regardless, it does seem the solution (under the circumstances here) to your problem is bigger tires with a higher weight rating. As far as extra springs, I feel that if the rig is not sagging when loaded up, you wouldn't need them. More springs will make for a rougher ride. Who really knows about the actual limits of the rear axle assembly.
I hope you conclude with a satisfactory resolution.
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My 3100S fully loaded including two adults, one dog and full tanks (not sewer tanks) came in at 4,460 lbs front (540 lbs under max.); rear was 9,140 lbs, (360 lbs under max) for a total of 13,600 lbs (900 lbs under max). I run the tires at the inflation rate as determined from the Michelin tables at 70 lbs front and 74 lbs rear. Not sure what the actual calculated tongue weight is for my new Jeep Cherokee but I would guess I am still under max GVW and OK from the CGVW since the jeep's weight is 4250 lbs. I guess those three slides are sure heavy on the 29's? I wonder how other brands put larger boxes on the 450 chassis and offer three slides as well, they must be way over weight coming out of the gate? Hope this helps, thanks, Ron
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My 3100S fully loaded including two adults, one dog and full tanks (not sewer tanks) came in at 4,460 lbs front (540 lbs under max.); rear was 9,140 lbs, (360 lbs under max) for a total of 13,600 lbs (900 lbs under max). I run the tires at the inflation rate as determined from the Michelin tables at 70 lbs front and 74 lbs rear. Not sure what the actual calculated tongue weight is for my new Jeep Cherokee but I would guess I am still under max GVW and OK from the CGVW since the jeep's weight is 4250 lbs. I guess those three slides are sure heavy on the 29's? I wonder how other brands put larger boxes on the 450 chassis and offer three slides as well, they must be way over weight coming out of the gate? Hope this helps, thanks, Ron
So if you travelled with two or three additional people and heir belongings as the sleeping accommodations dictate, you would be right close to the limit, not over it. 2o2 That scenario is an "extreme" condition of which few would practice, but good to know it can be done.
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You are right Ron; that is unless I put the dog and my wife in the Jeep then I could pick up a few extra individuals! As coaches (class C's) get larger and offer more extras I think you are going to see those GVW's being maxed out. I spoke with Kermit about the F-550 chassis and he said he had no intention at this time to use that chassis at PC.
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Got a quote Rickson Truck Wheels 7 wheels 17.5,7 Michelin xze2 215/75r17.5 tires,1 set stainless steel simulators, balanceing,
shipping for a total of $5,560.65. Not what I wanted, But?? Tires 3,750# single and 3,530 dual. This should do the job. Real axel would
go from 9,600# to 14,120# front axel 5,000# to 7,500# Not that I would load to this weight but over the 5,000 and 9,600 lbs.
Tires would not be the problem. JAS
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I have a question? How would changing tires change the actual load rating of the axle itself? Can you exceed the weight limit of a 9600# rated axle by changing tires? Isn't an axle a component that has a weight limit just like springs or tires that have their own weight maximums?
Sue
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Yes Sue you are right changing the tires will not change the axel. Ford uses a Dana 70-267 10.75 HD. 9600# is because that is
what the tires is good for on a dual axel. Dana says Dana 70 is good for 10,000# plus a safety factor of ???, but would not say.
With the 17.5 tires the rear axel loaded at 11,000# should be ok JAS
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I need to ask why Ford did not put the larger tires on coming out of the factory? I would think the manufacturer would want the largest possible GVW for any given chassis... I would worry that perhaps Ford knows for sure how much weight the frame rails, etc can handle and by going to a larger tire you may be asking for trouble? Just M2C's. Thanks
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There is an article in the July 2014 Family Motor Coach that states "as a last resort, the owner could consult with the chassis manufacturer and ask whether the tires could be replaced with larger tires or tires that have a higher load rating". The title of the article is Weighing your RV.
George
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The Michelin 215/75 17.5 is only .2 inches larger. Just a higher load cap. Now the tires will not run at the top of the load range
of the 16' all the time.Still no word from the factory jas
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The End::Talked to Kermit today. He has been building the 2910T for four years with no problems . He weighed one today
on a 4 scales. LF 2,140#,RF 2,260# LR 4,820#andRR4,330# Front axel 4,400# Rear axel 9,150# for a total 13,550#
This is full of fuel and LP Gas. this will leave 950lbs for all the other equipment The left rear is at the max now with out loading all the equipment. ( Water, kitchen, food ,bath, bedding, driver, wife, outdoor stuff ) Some of the weight will go to the front axel.
I thank I will still go with the 17.5 wheels and load range F tires. All is good.
Thanks to all JAS
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Kermit had a 2015 2910T at the reunion. I bet it is the one he weighted. He drove it to Colorado Springs and back to Elkhart towing a Ford Explorer.
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2910T weights-HELP
I was just looking at the published weight limits again. There are only 2 ways to get weight onto the RV, either it goes on the rear axle or the front axle. By adding the published limits of rear & front axle together, we get a total of 14100, not the 14500 that is published.......Front axle GAWR 4600 + rear axle GAWR 9500 = 14100. I talked to a tech at Ford Motorhome Division and he said all three of those weights are limiting, do-not-exceed weights.
I must be missing something. I don’t see how we can load another 400 lbs onto any axle to get to the GVWR of 14500. It seems the GVWR should be 14100. Can anyone help me here?
Dave
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Dave to add weight to the coach ( water, gear or what ever,people) it will change the axel weight. Some will go to the front
and some to the rear axel. Still the total should not go over 14,500 LBS. To max out your coach you have 400# That is what I am talking about along. The tires will be maxed out at 9500# on the rear axel. jas
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That's along the lines that I was thinking.
However, the total vehicle weight can never be more than the sum of the weights on the 2 axles. When those max weights are added together we get 14100, not 14500. According the limiting weights on the axles the max weight of the RV could never exceed 14100. Does that make sense?
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Dave No front axel 5,000 plus rear axel 9,500 =14,600# Ford says 14,500 total To get 14,500 most of the weight would go
to the front axel jas
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I was going by the brochure I downloaded from Phoenix, it says 4600 for the front axle. So it's really 5000? That helps.
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The current brochure has the front GAWR as 5000. The one I downloaded on 1 July 2014 had front GAWR as 4600. Looks like Phoenix corrected it.
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Got the new tires and wheels (17.5) installed this week. Added about 1.5 in. to the coach height. Had to rework the spare
tire cover a little . The two top and two side bolts on the bracket had to be ground for the larger center hub. Forde center part is
9.5 in. and the Rickson wheel is 11.5 . Now no tires problems I hope. Thanks to all jas
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Be sure to watch your speed. Your speedometer will be off a lot. If you have a GPS, go by that speed reading.
I put oversize tires on a van once and the first time I past a cop on the interstate I got a speeding ticket. I was off by 7 mph.