Cruisers Forum
Main Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: ge_montana on September 02, 2012, 01:19:38 pm
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Today I had the 4th dead starter battery this month. Battery was new in January. Everything is turned off. Levelers are down but off. House batteries are on but plugged into 30 amp outlet.
Getting down to problem has to be dead cell. Any other ideas
Greg
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Greg,
Sounds like you have an "electrical leak". Something in your chassis (Ford) is sneaking enerygy from your battery. Disconnect any extra wiring that may be attached directly to your battery such as a brake controller and see if the battery will stay up. You obviously are buying good batteries, but you may have to temporarily connect an ammeter in line with your battery wire to see if the leak still exists after you remove everything else. Our chassis battery has never given us a moments problem so I think this is a serious matter.
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Greg
As a precaution retract the PC steps so they cannot put a drain on the battery.
If the battery can be easily removed I would take it to a good auto parts store and have them test it. Otherwise, fully charge the battery and wait at least 12 hours and then check the output voltage. If the voltage is around 10V you probably have a bad cell. If not you might have a drain on the battery.
Barry
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When I go route of charging battery & testing with meter, I disconnect battery and test prior to charge. Then I check every so often or wait overnight and then check. As I really don't know what I am doing, I like disconnecting the battery so as to establish an isolation zone twixt thingies (& make notes as I am great at dismantling and not so good at mantling).
May the Force be with You
kevin
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Greg:
On my old 2350 I found that the lights on the running board stayed on and drained my battery. You could not notice it during daylight hours. Only by dumb luck did I go out one night into my garage to see that they stayed on and never went off. I don't remember if the problem was that I pushed the light switch on the dash or replaced the actual switch. I think that I had a faulty switch.... Good luck.
DJM
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I have no idea if he is right or not, but my RV mechanic swears that some of the electronic gear in the vicinity of the instrument panel periodically runs routines that will slowly run the battery down over time (not a day or two). Accordingly, he recommends installing a battery disconnect switch on one terminal of the battery. I have one and use it when we park the RV in our storage unit after the camping trip. This seems to have solved any problems we had. Of course, when your're travelling and either using the engine or plugging in it's no problem anyway.
Jerry
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Turns our the lights under our steps do not go out on the front door. Tried the door switch but light did not go off, must be stitch cut the wire and pated it off, will now want unit l get one to fix stitch. Hope this works.
Will keep you posted.
greg
still loving our 2551.
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I think that the dash lights dimmer switch might control the running board lights. Try dimming the dash lights. The rotary switch on full bright would normally turn on the dome light, but it might be turning on the running board lights.
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I think that the dash lights dimmer switch might control the running board lights. Try dimming the dash lights. The rotary switch on full bright would normally turn on the dome light, but it might be turning on the running board lights.
Agree, on my 2010 2551, the running board lights stayed on with the rotary switch rotated to full bright.
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This also applies to my older 2007 E350 chassis.
If I turn on the dome lights in the cab using the headlight control switch, then I turn off the dome lights individually using the switches by the light fixture, the running board lights remain on, I think indefinitely, though not 100% sure.
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thanks did it, now to reconnect the wire I cut.
Ge_montana
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Glag that worked. Now you know the little secret. ;) Keep it a secret and you can help the next guy that has running board light problems.
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Greg :
Glad you found the problem.
That problem followed me for about 6 months until I went into the garage at night by happenstance and saw that dang running board light on. It was an "aha" moment.
DJM
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Well, we were supposed to leave for Yuma in 2 days. Wanted to weigh the rig fully loaded this morning. Went out and the engine battery is completely DEAD. reads 2.1 Amps. Tried to jump start with our honda and it wouldn't even turn over. Good Sam is on the way. Wondering if we have a bad cell or what. I am just getting exasperated. I guess when you are plugged into A/C it doesn't charge the engine battery and we had the steps out for the past three weeks. In our old Monaco you just pushed a button and used the house battery to start. Don't want to sit and try to charge this one by holding the dash battery switch for a couple of hours.
Wonder what will happen next. Haven't even been on a cruise yet. 2 hours and Good Sam Road Service still is not here. They sent someone from 55 miles away because the people that AAA normally use who are 2 miles away are not on Good Sam system. Should have stayed with AAA RV Plus. Forgot about my past experiences with Good Sam.
And, today's my birthday. I should be having a happy day. pyho pyho pyho
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Anne & Bob,
Sorry to hear of your troubles, but you have learned it is best to disconnect the ground cable on the starting battery while in storage. So welcome to the "I Killed My Battery Doing Nothing" club.
You might want to consider carrying extended length jumper cables to bridge between your coach and starter batteries. Or do what I do and carry a 4/10/20/40 amp battery charger and extension cord that will run off the generator.
FWIW, my 2007 E350 chassis starting battery seems to drain down every-other month like yours did, but 5 years running, and all is still well after that mishap. Hey, it's better than my Corvette which will drain down after 4 to 5 weeks.
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For those that have problems with dead batteries you might want to install two Battery Tenders. I have one unit for the coach and one for the chassis and I have hard wired them together and then just plug into 120V and that keeps them all in top notch shape. total cost is less than $150. Just remember to unplug when you pull out! Thanks
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It's a bummer. I have purchased a secondary battery with its own jumper cables that we carry in the toad at Walmart. I charge the night before we leave on a trip. This one starts my E450
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanley-500-Amp-Jump-Starter-with-Compressor/13035281
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Since you have two fully charged coach batteries sitting in a slideout tray on the same side of the rig as the chassis battery, I would carry extra long jumper cables. Start the generator, hook up the cables, wait 15 minutes, and you are likely good to go. If not, just wait a little longer.
The long cables could also come in handy throughout your trip if your tow vehicle needs a jump, or even a neighboring camper.
Walmart on-line sells a 4-gauge 20-footer in a nice case, EverStart for $37.00 SEE IT HERE (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Everstart-08661-77-04-Everstart-4-Gauge-Booster-Cables-20/16817348)
Walmart also sell a professional 2-gauge 25 footer (not sure about a case) for $89.00 SEE IT HERE (http://www.walmart.com/ip/FJC-Inc.-45245-2-Gauge-25-ft.-600-AMP-Parrot-Clamp-Professional-Booster-Cables/21660740)
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Ron....a question.
Yes, the two coach batteries are fully charged. We are plugged into AC which keeps them charged. My question: Why do I have to start the generator if I am plugged into electric? Does the battery charger work faster from the generator than from plain AC? I am feeling dumber all the time.
We have NEVER had our engine battery go dead on any of our RVs and they used to sit sometimes a month at a time when we were parked in a park and never started the motor. And even our PleasureWay engine battery never died. And that was a Ford too. Is it the new Fords? Or is it the fact I left the stairs down for three weeks. I thought it would take more power to open and close the steps every time I went in and out loacing than if I just left it open. I am now going to be reluctant to ever use the button that keeps the steps out. Like how many days with the steps out does it take to drain a battery?
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Anne and Bob,
You ask some interesting questions that I have only a few answers for.
You are right, I was wrong concerning running the generator. If you are plugged into 110V shore power, then you are all set to jumper to the front underhood chassis battery. I assumed you were not hooked up to shore power.
It is a mystery why the chassis battery drains so quickly. I do wonder if the newer 2009-2013 Ford chassis has more stand-by features like for example the built-in dash board GPS, wireless key fobs, alarm systems and such, features that have a small current draw even when everything is turned off.
PC owners do find their chassis door step lights on when they thought they were off. Just be sure those little lights at the steps of the two front Ford doors are off when you leave. If they are on, turn them off using the headlight dash board dimmer switch.
I think the entry door step does not draw power either way, but not 100% sure.
Hopefully someone else will chime in and provide better information than I have here.
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...We have NEVER had our engine battery go dead on any of our RVs and they used to sit sometimes a month at a time when we were parked in a park and never started the motor. And even our PleasureWay engine battery never died. And that was a Ford too. Is it the new Fords? Or is it the fact I left the stairs down for three weeks. I thought it would take more power to open and close the steps every time I went in and out loacing than if I just left it open. I am now going to be reluctant to ever use the button that keeps the steps out. Like how many days with the steps out does it take to drain a battery?
Anne & Bob, I just had to comment on your never having a battery die on you -- even though I have always taken care to start/run my Ford engine (and one Chevy in the past) or run the camper around weekly even in the dead of winter, I have managed to "kill" my battery on more than one occasion (usually once per vehicle). I try to do all the things that keep a battery in good shape, being careful about battery drain, cleaning, etc -- it has happened to me at least once on every vehicle I have owned. The only time I can remember it not happening was when I had a pop-up & no battery! A week ago it happened while parked at a campground with friends for a week (not going anywhere) and after a long 5 hour drive up to the grounds. The guys camping with us decided that it was a combination of all the PW running lights coming on every time we opened the door and staying on for 20 sec, and a chassis battery that was probably at least a year older than the build of the PW we're still driving. Oh well, in a week, we are scheduled to pick up our Phoenix (yea!!!) and we can discover all the things that the rest of you are finding out about this brand. I have a list, thanks to all of you: let's see, steps going in and out (do they run off the chassis and not the house battery? Ah, well, something else to remember), running board lights, don't leave the cab doors open too long. Aw, shucks! I think I'll keep my Coach-Net service contract up and just enjoy the wait in my beautiful PC if the battery does die! But I am going to get those jumper cables...
And, by the way: hope it was an otherwise terrific birthday! Wish you many more!
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GE-MT:
It sure seems like you must have something draining on that chassis battery? The chassis battery is not small in size and while it does have drain on it all the time like Ron D described it should last atleast a couple of weeks without any problem. I would really check around to see if something has not been left on that would have a more significant drain. The stair does come off the chassis battery but that yellow light only stays on for a few minutes and I can not imaging there is any draw after the light goes out but who knows? It was my understanding that the "jump switch" on the dash that jumps from the coach batteries to the chassis battery only needs to be held in the on positon for several minutes (like 10-15) to do the trick and not for hours like you eluded...best of luck in your diagnostic work!
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If the dead starter battery is in the same coach with the leveler problem (I did not back check the threads) I would suspect that there is still a problem with how that leveler control box is wired (you can check that control for power underneath the coach, power lights will be on and visible through the plex'g cover, it would not necessarily show up on the operator panel in the cab if it is mis-wired).
Easy way to see what the current draw is would be to unhook the positive side of the coach battery and put an amp meter in series with whatever load is present when everything is supposed to be shut off.
If the load is higher than 10 amps the fuse in the meter will blow to protect the meter. If that fuse blows you have a major problem that could cause major damage.
If it is just a parasitic load then you have to determine what is on that should not be and correct it.
Another, not recommended way, is to time the discharge rate, from a fully charged battery and then determine what uses that amount of power in an idle state, and then correct that condition.
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I've been parked in a campground for the past 9 weeks with the step out, and the battery is still fully charged. The lights under the steps are not on either. You must have a Ford wiring issue.
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Our PC was idle all last winter (November to March) and it had no problem starting in April. Same with the 2010 2551 & 2007 2350 before it (no battery charger on any).
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Well, I checked the dimmer switch and it was all the way on so I turned it all the way off. Had my GPS plugged into 12 volt to keep the battery charged so unplugged that. I noticed that when you open the drivers door the front and rear running lights come on for about 20-30 seconds but I think I have solved that with the dimmer switch.
It seems to me that it would take more power to just leave the steps out rather than every time you open the door the steps come out and you close it and they go back in. Does anyone know how much the steps draw when they are out? Or how much it takes to move the steps out and back when the button is not pushed?
I did notice that you can see a glow from where all the plugs are plugged in for surround sound. Not the TV amplifier but all the jacks on the other side of the cabinet. Don't know if the surround sound is powered by the house or the chassis batteries. Anyone know that? Guess I could turn off the DC power and if the light stays on it is the chassis and if it goes off it is the house.
That's all I can think of but to make sure I had Bob start the motor yesterday since I had been going in and out quite a bit.
And, YES, we have a long jumper cable that would reach from the house battery to the chassis battery. Had to loan it to the Good Sam man because his would not reach. :lol
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It seems to me that it would take more power to just leave the steps out rather than every time you open the door the steps come out and you close it and they go back in. Does anyone know how much the steps draw when they are out? Or how much it takes to move the steps out and back when the button is not pushed?
It doesn't take any power to leave the steps out, a limit switch cuts power when the step reaches the, well, "limit".
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GE-M:
I would have to conclude that if your dimmer switch was on beyond the "intent" then your running board lights wee most likley on all the time. The tow dome/bullet lights would not be on if their switchs were off. I bet you have found your culpert in those little running board lights that you would never see on with the doors shut or you really went looking around at night. bets of luck. Thanks
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Anne and Bob:
The running lights (front and back) do in fact come on for like 20 sec.'s everytime the front doors are opened and that is the way they are suppose to operate. I am sure Ford could program the onboard computer to do otherwise but I find it a very nice feature. I would not be cutting any wires to stop the feature or you may in fact cause many other issues. I hope you have found the problem with the dimer switch and the running board lights?
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We are parked at our Yuma house and I have the steps out. I think the culprit was the rotary switch for the dome lights etc. was all the way on. The dome lights were shut off so it was not them, but I think it was the door lights etc. and the fact that when that switch is all the way on, when you open and close the door the running lights came on for like 30 seconds. We keep checking the battery to make sure it is not losing power. In the meantime we are ordering a nice Black & Decker Battery Charger per Ron's recommendation today. heartshower
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Anne & Bob:
After I had my "aha" moment and found those running board lights on at night, I have not had a problem. If you turn that dial switch down to nothing then the running board lights stay on about 5 seconds. I have found that I can leave the mh stored in the garage all summer without a start problem. In the winter, it is a different story. I can go about 6 weeks before she won't start. The colder weather makes the batteries die faster. One last thing to do is check to see if you have a dead cell in your battery with the tester. With the crappy batteries being made today (in China) they tend to have quality control issues.
Happy camping.
DJM
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Phoenix switched to Trojan batteries as far as I know. They are made in USA.